Gearscore is coming!

The problem with the GS is not that you can't enter a dungeon if you're below the required minimum, as that's a good idea, but that we'll have a plague of players asking unrealistic GS numbers and creating a bad mood/environment within the community. If you ask me, the GS number should be private. If someone is curious enough to double check it they can always inspect your gear, as just checking a GS number is not enough, as many of you know (they could manipulate the system).

So, to make it short, why give more tools to the jerks to jerk around easier? It's too bad already with what we have (see current dungeon discussions).

This isent really gearscore, because its governed by the system, this isent people wanting Bahamut coil gear to do garuda HM's

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

The problem with the GS is not that you can't enter a dungeon if you're below the required minimum, as that's a good idea, but that we'll have a plague of players asking unrealistic GS numbers and...

...So, to make it short, why give more tools to the jerks to jerk around easier? It's too bad already with what we have (see current dungeon discussions).

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So don't run with those types of people and make your own groups or go with friends. People being jerks isn't a good reason to not implement a necessary system. A minimum ilevel for queuing for high-level instances is a good thing no matter how you slice it. Skill can only get you so far and if you're undergeared for the content you're just screwing over the other people in your group who came prepared. Duty Finder lumps you together with perfect strangers so there needs to be a little bit of insurance in place to give you a shot at clearing the content.

i have questions about the gearscore..

what if we want to help the fresh 50s of our FC to do some high gearscore duty?
will it be totally cannot be done?
will they make it that we can turn on/off the gearscore requirements?

We already have item level. All they're doing is adding an item level requirement to queues.

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Originally Posted by texhnolyze

i have questions about the gearscore..

what if we want to help the fresh 50s of our FC to do some high gearscore duty?

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This will not be possible. Not because the system won't let them in, but because you won't be able to complete the content with people in poor gear. This restriction only applies to high level content (i.e. hard modes, etc)

I guess I will chime in...

Gearscore is only good to confirm if the player has a certain level of gear that would be acceptable to push forward in.... So if someone runs in with level 20 gear in a level 45 dungeon.. They might be spanked.

That being said, Warcraft went from being skill based to gear based and key mashing. You used to be able to have mediocre gear, with some enchants on them, and as a group work through content based on each ones knowledge and experience in that class, and how you work together and create a sort of synergy.

We need to remember that skill and class knowledge, and playing well with others, can never be replaced by gearscore.. Not unless you want a ton of crappy players in your group.

You want to be able to master your class and build core groups. Gearscore should be nothing more then a tool or measurement to ensure compliance of some sort.

"addition of a party recruitment window"-Thank god!

The kind of people that whine because you choose to enjoy the game, rather than treat it as an accounting job trying to crunch numbers, make grouping less enjoyable and I see a system like this (for most content) as a way to encourage these people and restrict group content.

The exceptions are the elite content (HM Primals and the Binding Coil), which absolutely should be restricted to those with adequate gear for the task.

If the (non elite content) restrictions are reasonable (and I mean general consensus reasonable, not what the vocal hardcore think is reasonable), then I could get behind such a system, provided it quiets all the whining about gear levels.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

We already have item level. All they're doing is adding an item level requirement to queues.



This will not be possible. Not because the system won't let them in, but because you won't be able to complete the content with people in poor gear. This restriction only applies to high level content (i.e. hard modes, etc)

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i see
i'd like to know the requirements for each duty
i hope the first two 50 dungeons (Wanderer & Amdapor) won't have too high gearscore requirements
because those dungeons are the main source of fresh 50s to gear up, right?
as for primals hard, yes we actually need high gearscore for those

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Originally Posted by texhnolyze

i have questions about the gearscore..

what if we want to help the fresh 50s of our FC to do some high gearscore duty?
will it be totally cannot be done?
will they make it that we can turn on/off the gearscore requirements?

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i would hope for preformed partys there would be no iLvl requirement as its then your choice to be carrying that person.

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Originally Posted by texhnolyze

i see
i'd like to know the requirements for each duty
i hope the first two 50 dungeons (Wanderer & Amdapor) won't have too high gearscore requirements
because those dungeons are the main source of fresh 50s to gear up, right?
as for primals hard, yes we actually need high gearscore for those

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I think Ilvl avg of 45 is fine for amdapor. that would mean you would need afew 50 pieces, your 45 AF gear and you might be all right with one or 2 pieces still of bad accessories.

God forbid people police themselves and find that they need better gear to do certain content. It's a shame SE has to force this kind of stuff on to the community instead of letting us deal with it ourselves. Then again the entire Duty Finder system takes all the community control away from the community anyways.

Just sucks that all these features end up being detrimental to people who don't need this kind of stuff imposed on them.

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Originally Posted by Vantwan

I never played WoW so I don't know if gearscore is considered a bad thing there but I don't see what's terribly wrong with it.

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Gearscore was an addon developed by a third party to give your character an average item level based on equipment. The reason it was developed was because back in Wrath of the Lich King there was a fight against a giant tank called Flame Leviathan that had to be done using vehicles. You had seige tanks that were the tank vehicle, catapults and motorcycles that were DPS/support vehicles.

The addon's purpose was to help raid leaders determine who would be placed in the seige tanks, as the stats of the vehicles were determined entirely by your character's item level (average determined by all gear you currently had equipped) rather than role (the big thing about this is that it meant a healer could take up a tank role during this fight by piloting a siege tank, or a tank might be able to do a DPS role if they chose to pilot a catapult or motrocycle). You could have Duelle, Pwner and Snuffy in a raid, and even if Duelle were a tank, if Snuffy or Pwner had better better gear and thus a higher gearscore, they would be placed in the seige tanks because the seige tanks remaining functional during the encounter was pretty much required to win.

The addon was missused by the ignorant masses to determine your worthiness of being part of their group. Which is why groups would measure you by your gearscore (again, determined by your average i-level).

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Much better than being in a level 50 primal/dungeon and seeing a dps class who's wearing level 20 accessories and a white level 44 weapon.

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Ditto.

I can see a problem arising if say you are trying to enter the content with your own party server side no matter what gear they have, but the duty finder wont let them enter. Other than that, it will aid in not getting way undergeared people for some high level content, like those people who want to do garuda with a lvl44 aetherial weapon. . . . man

As long as I can bypass it when queuing with full groups, I don't care, DF is for people who solo MMOs and don't have enough friends to fill a small group.

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Originally Posted by Thunderz

dark light is easy to get

this is a smart way for progression +1 SE

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Hell no. It's easy to get for people who like to do nothing but run dungeons. For those of us that wan't to run them once for achievement and to see what it's like, these kind of things are murder, especially since there is no way to craft half decent gear anymore without needing tomestones. I don't want crafted gear to be BiS, just good enough that I can at least attempt the high level dungeons without running the ones just below 100 times first.

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

Hell no. It's easy to get for people who like to do nothing but run dungeons. For those of us that wan't to run them once for achievement and to see what it's like, these kind of things are murder, especially since there is no way to craft half decent gear anymore without needing tomestones. I don't want crafted gear to be BiS, just good enough that I can at least attempt the high level dungeons without running the ones just below 100 times first.

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Its certainly easy, but its also a boring monotonous grindfest to have full tier 1.

It's the player base that made GS horrible in wow. They were demanding you be fully equiped with stuf you get in the raid or later ones to even step foot in them. Their current hard keyed Item level system that says "You must have this minimm average to come in' works better. Hoepfully this is like the second kind.

This will do good for the community and reduce bad experiences from people that just don't understand what endgame gear progression is.

Ill explain it in a very simple term everyone can understand.

This is literally the same exact mechanic as locking out a level 15 from a level 40 dungeon...they did this as you were leveling up...When you hit 50 your level doesn't matter but what gear you wear does dictate what you would be able to handle just as you being level 15 dictates that you would be able to run the level 15 and level 10 dungeons...while getting murdered in the level 20 dungeon.

Too many people don't understand this...and while yes its possible to get into a group that's good enough to carry you...as would teaming up with 3 level 40s and running the level 35 dungeon while you are level 15...but they don't allow that...and for a reason...that's all this is.

Sorry I didnt read all post before me. So just my point of view about this "gear check".

Dont mind to have "item level" check, as long as is turn of when you go with full premade ( 4/4 and 8/8). I see no reason to restrict organized play, If group wanna had handicap let them have it

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Originally Posted by Rolvag

Sorry I didnt read all post before me. So just my point of view about this "gear check".

Dont mind to have "item level" check, as long as is turn of when you go with full premade ( 4/4 and 8/8). I see no reason to restrict organized play, If group wanna had handicap let them have it

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Hopefully not, this will be one aspect of the game you wont be able to skip. You can always help your friends by doing the lower level dungeons with them.

Eh. THIs isn't really gearscore. THis is iLvl, look at Tera. Has it built in, does perfectly fine and no one is really crazy about demanding you to be overgeared.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...jpg?1314380489

As long as it doesn't require something like full Darklight for Garuda (it's a stupid grindfest for tomes and a significant amount of players just don't have the patience, I want to earn my gear with skill, not by ridiculous grinding), it can't be that bad, keeps severely undergeared FATE grinders out.

Get this crap out of my MMO's, damn you WoW for ruining this genre in so many ways. What ever happened to getting with a group of cool people and having fun doing content and having to find a way to overcomes their weaknesses to accomplish the goal....and sometimes (OMG!!) failing.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

So don't run with those types of people and make your own groups or go with friends. People being jerks isn't a good reason to not implement a necessary system. A minimum ilevel for queuing for high-level instances is a good thing no matter how you slice it. Skill can only get you so far and if you're undergeared for the content you're just screwing over the other people in your group who came prepared. Duty Finder lumps you together with perfect strangers so there needs to be a little bit of insurance in place to give you a shot at clearing the content.

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Re-read what I said, please, as I think that you misunderstood what I wrote. I said that the internal GS requirement for dungeons is somewhat needed (as a simple and reasonable internal filter) for pug groups, but that the visible part of it will just make it easier for griefers to grief. Say whatever you want, but it's a fact that it would affect the community in general even if you don't run with them.

Also, as I said that number alone is useless. As a tank I could equip an "All classes" healer set that gives me enough GS to enter the dungeon. That's why, if you really want that someone has proper gear, it's the players responsability to double check the details instead of just looking on a single general number (as do bad players).

Implement it with a reasonable required minimum iLvl, but make it an internal value not seen by anyone but the system. If it deems your gear apropiate to enter the dungeon, no one should complain or try to force anyone to bring better gear for it (unless they make their own group outside of the duty finder, of course, but even then the general GS value isn't needed nor really useful for the reasons that I stated).

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Originally Posted by Oldschool

What ever happened to getting with a group of cool people and having fun doing content and having to find a way to overcomes their weaknesses to accomplish the goal....and sometimes (OMG!!) failing.

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For me it's not fun trying to do the impossible. It's one thing to get together an appropriately geared group and trying to work your way through difficult content via trial-and-error, it's something else entirely to have no chance of success at all because one or more of your members isn't even close to being geared enough for the content. Skill only goes so far. Without appropriate gear your tanks can't take hits, your healers can't keep up with incoming damage, and your dps will never kill things fast enough.

A gear check is necessary when you're being asked to work with strangers. It's a form of insurance by making sure that everyone is at least geared enough for the content and giving you one less thing to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Gearscore? *Shudder*

It's a shame another system is being put in place to crutch the failings of the duty finder. Hopefully this wont matter if you try with your friends, but I am betting it will.

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This isn't endemic to DF, you can pick up 8 randoms on your own server and half of them can be poorly geared, you can do this with your LS or FC also.

I am tired of people trying to defend their laziness so someone else can pick up their slack.

If you don't have the time to gear up, you don't have the time to do harder content, it's really not that hard to gear up in this game.

Problem is also that many people are skipping WP and going straight to AK, I hope the gear checks will stop this from happening.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

This isn't endemic to DF, you can pick up 8 randoms on your own server and half of them can be poorly geared, you can do this with your LS or FC also.

I am tired of people trying to defend their laziness so someone else can pick up their slack.

If you don't have the time to gear up, you don't have the time to do harder content, it's really not that hard to gear up in this game.

Problem is also that many people are skipping WP and going straight to AK, I hope the gear checks will stop this from happening.

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http://www.justsaypictures.com/image...dy-mercury.jpg

Wait Wait. You mean people in 35/40 Greys will NOT be able to queue for HM Primals or AK or whatnot? How is this a bad thing?

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Originally Posted by Leonas

Eh. THIs isn't really gearscore. THis is iLvl, look at Tera. Has it built in, does perfectly fine and no one is really crazy about demanding you to be overgeared.

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^ +1
Of course, all the lazy QQ's are going to keep on ranting up a storm about this, just cuz they don't feel like getting decently geared, as many people have stated. Pretty sure not EVERYONE in the game wishes to run content, especially endgame grinds for tomes, with people wearing no gear at all with their lvl 1 starter weapon.

finally being a goldsmith will be worth it! :D seeing as it costs 360k atm to just craft rosegold earrings :P

What people aren't getting is that there isn't a specific score you'll be judged against, it will be your average score.

Example: If you wear all level 60 gear, regardless of how "good" an item is for any given specific slot for that level range, you'll be judged as having equipment item level of 60. An average across your entire gears iLevel. You aren't being assigned a score of 3014712389471, your gear simply averages out to be level 60. You can see this by creating a gear set and looking at the level of the set.

If your gears average iLevel is less than the minimum requirement for a dungeon, you can't go because your contribution will be too low. Don't believe me? I can guarantee you won't be hearing any tales of victory against hard mode titan with anyone less than Amdapor Keep level armor (iLvL60) and an Ifrit level weapon. Though I think the average party will need dark light to beat, I'm talking about bare minimums here.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Something tells me this is going to push away a lot of players ( unless the gear score is reasonable) If you need like all Darklight gear to do end game content then this will sure back fire. I feel people shouldn't be restricted of content because there gear isn't up to snuff.

*This doesn't effect me in anyway shape or form, I just feel people will leave if they get restricted because of their gear.* Take it as you will.

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sadly this is a necessary feature in a game with bosses where dps matter for a wipe or success, like demon wall. Right now everyone can enter everywhere, but it's not feasible. The worst amdapor i did was with a blm+brd in af and quest weapon, at first boss we had priest alive+boss+2 golem add alive...at once. This is just wrong.

I could see this as being a great system if it's optional. Meaning, that if you form a party you can enter into the instance, however, if you just queue up for a dungeon then it will be something that is checked.

IMO.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

The worst amdapor i did was with a blm+brd in af and quest weapon, at first boss we had priest alive+boss+2 golem add alive...at once.

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sounds like you got bad players more than anything. As a fresh 50 in AF, lv49 white wep, and mixture of 30-49 ilv for my jewlery as a BRD i had absolutely no issues in AK with the other DPS being similarly geared. With groups with ifrit's weps and some darklight and rest ilv55/60 Wall can die before bees. This just shows gear score will help, but unless each dungeon is tiered by needing to complete the one before it to obtain some gear and show progression of skill level to move on, skill levels (not ilevel) will still be a huge handycap.

other important thing that needs to be watched for here will be those who have a bunch of darklight from job one just equiping it on their 2nd job (wrong jewlery and does nothing for current job) to be able to queue, which will gimp them worse than if they just had the correct ear that was too low.

This is definitely one of those things where it could either turn out great or horrible. Mainly because of the players, I'd definitely not looking forward to seeing people demanding an obnoxious GS just to get into that raid that you have to do in order to even get that kind of GS.

Gearscore is already in the game if you actually look at the gear you equip, because it does show item level on it. All they are doing now is gating dungeons to prevent players who should not be in certain dungeons from entering it yet, which I am perfectly fine with.

People like to complain that this is going to cause division within the game amongst players, but I will guarantee you that even if this system was not being implemented players would find another way to segregate. We humans have an insatiable need to quantify anything and place value on almost everything, so it was bound to happen one way or another.

Eh I dont mind it...df is scary and I mostly do stuff with my fc anyway lol

I don't feel like we need gear score as much as we need an ability to kick baddies from the parties. It might break a lot of hearts but maybe people would at least learn from it and maybe get the gear necessary for the encounters.