Its happened :/ - resorted to new character for Gil.

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Originally Posted by Doctor-

3 levels every 12hours ?....... make what 1k gil from that ................. do 1 titan 5.6k repair bill *SIGH*

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5.6k?

dark matter 5 = 350 gil
12 slots (without second hand)
that would be 4200 gil for me

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Also to people saying you can't do your own repairs during a dungeon... In what world does gear ever break in the dungeon. My first Garuda run we used the entire 90 minutes and We wiped at least once every 5 mintues... Our healer was bad. When it was over I still had 40% left on each piece of gear... Repair before you que up for a dungeon. You have enough time to switch and repair before you click commence.

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The point I'm seeing them try to get across is that dark matter repairs are only cheaper if you're at or near 0%. If you pre-repair at higher percentages before the dungeon it is cheaper to use the npc mender. If you wait until 0% in a dungeon you have to leave that dungeon to repair or carry a back up piece to wear until the end.

This is because dark matter is a flat cost to take you to 100%, where as npc repairs are based off of what percentage condition is missing.

I'm not 50 yet though so I don't know what the break even point is.

Lol im not sure why its so difficult for people to understand that leveling gathering or crafts or farming items to sell on the boards NOT a solution to the game removing gil.

Selling to someone on the market board, may get YOU more money for now, but it removes more gil from the game, and eventually it WILL run dry, and if no one has gil to spend, not even farmers or crafters can earn money. The prices of everything will plummet, but the price of repairs will not, making the repair bill issue even more of an issue as time goes on.

the board removes 5% from the seller, AND charges the buyer a fee. Being unable to repair other people's gear and the inability to get matter without buying it is a huge problem. It was always meant to be expensive to have an NPC repair, but the alternative of having someone repair was meant to be a much cheaper option if you were willing to wait. Just this change would be enough to turn the overall gil loss into somewhat of a gain

what about doing those leve quest things, u know that you initiate... u get a bonus when u do them faster , u get a weekly alotment i think.. not sure but i have yet to ever use them all up, its not alot, but u get gil, xp(if ur not 50) and the GC ones give seals. or so lower level instance and win greed rolls and turn in stuff for seals. idk, but from what i can tell there are a ton of ways to make gil , unless u just want to grind instances i guess this is ment to prevent that?

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Originally Posted by CianaIezuborn

The point I'm seeing them try to get across is that dark matter repairs are only cheaper if you're at or near 0%. If you pre-repair at higher percentages before the dungeon it is cheaper to use the npc mender. If you wait until 0% in a dungeon you have to leave that dungeon to repair or carry a back up piece to wear until the end.

This is because dark matter is a flat cost to take you to 100%, where as npc repairs are based off of what percentage condition is missing.

I'm not 50 yet though so I don't know what the break even point is.

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But if you buy dark matter with GC Seals. I mean what else do we have to spend our seals on? I'm out of things to buy in the GC aside from materials. Are we suppose to save them for something? Also I keep capping out and spending them to prevent them going to waste when I run fates. And I can't rank up anymore until level 50 (3 levels more). And when I get here I'll cap out again in a week.

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Originally Posted by Wigett

what about doing those leve quest things, u know that you initiate... u get a bonus when u do them faster

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Because you will need to repair after doing a number of them. and the money you gain by doing them is below the cost to repair.

use ah? everything is selling for 1 gil on ah!

For those who don't know, during beta, SE made items progressively more expensive to repair as their durability goes down to 'encourage' people to repair frequently. Also, it might be wise to have a second set of lower ilvl gears for farm content while keeping your BiS in your closet till progression raids.

I wish i could! I have desperately tried to create a alternate character on my server for weeks now but the restriction just won't lift. What annoys me is i keep seeing new lvl 1 characters show up in towns regularly and yet my server has apparently been restricted for weeks now.

Everyone seems to be missing the point. It is not about an individual making money. It is about the fact that once you hit 50 the ability to make NEW GIL dies. Making money off other players is not the issue here. The issue is eventually everyone except a few will be completely broke as they had no way of generating enough income to make up for their repair costs.

Somethings that could be added to offset this:

Free repair at end of successful dungeon/primal/leve. That way the 200-1000gil reward is not immediately wasted to get your gear repaired.
Higher gil rewards for dungeons/primals/leves.
Higher gil drops off npc type mobs.
Random chests in the world that drop Allagan pieces.

There are plenty of things to do to inject some ways to get more money than you are losing. This is not about a person becoming wealthy on the server (which happens at another's expense).

Actually i was thinking the best way to offset costs was to have a new game + option. The ability to start off from scratch over again and carry over your items and exp would be a welcome addition.

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Originally Posted by Mikser

Somethings that could be added to offset this:

Free repair at end of successful dungeon/primal/leve. That way the 200-1000gil reward is not immediately wasted to get your gear repaired.
Higher gil rewards for dungeons/primals/leves.
Higher gil drops off npc type mobs.
Random chests in the world that drop Allagan pieces.

There are plenty of things to do to inject some ways to get more money than you are losing. This is not about a person becoming wealthy on the server (which happens at another's expense).

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Or Solution B

Let us buy alagan pieces with GC Seals

50 seals = 1 bronze piece
250 seals = 1 silver piece
1250 seals = 1 gold piece

So If I fate grind all night and net 20,000 GC seals that would be 16 gold pieces worth 40,000 Gil and I'd probably repair twice for around 5k total at a net profit of 35,000 gil.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

This is bad game design.

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Oh? So your saying WOW had bad end game design too? Because unless your guild paid fees or you had a source of income other then just raid Loot gold ( gathering/crafting/Dailies) No way in hell did you have enough gold for your consumables/Gems enchants and repairs.


Stop bitching people go gather stuff sell it or craft stuff and sell it. Go do fates/Leves or something...........in general Stop being bad.



inb4 your not end game same rules apply for end game materials If you were smart you would play the Marketplace like the rest of us.



"Gathering and Crafting is not making money its taking some one else gil from the market which if your on a new server is running out unless another 2k influx of players join ........."



Last I checked that was how money worked.... Heaven forbid gill actually stays below the area where things cost less then 100b

On a side note, on launch day, I made close to 40,000 gil just buying everything people put on the AH for 1 gil and npcing it...

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Alternatives is what turns currency useless - The alternative is spamming leves and doing quests and selling those allagan coins. SE honestly can't do anything else without destroying the worth of gil and pretty much negate the whole purpose for lopping off a digit to our gil totals from 1.0.

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other MMOs manged it ok. and high worth of GIL is useless if people can't play the damn game because they don't have any money for repairs.

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Originally Posted by Skies

You sure all those gear maitenance costs aren't coming from incessant sacpulling?
Just to be sure that's not where the problem lies, not saying there isn't one. If that is the problem I say you earned it, but if it isn't, i'm a little afraid now

Also presumably, aren't leves still a great way to make money?

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Sac-pulling is actually CHEAPER than fighting trash mobs. No joke. The decay of durability fighting trash mobs is higher than just simply dying.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Or Solution B

Let us buy alagan pieces with GC Seals

50 seals = 1 bronze piece
250 seals = 1 silver piece
1250 seals = 1 gold piece

So If I fate grind all night and net 20,000 GC seals that would be 16 gold pieces worth 40,000 Gil and I'd probably repair twice for around 5k total at a net profit of 35,000 gil.

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I like this idea, but add tombs of philosophy as well. As some of us dont fate grind.

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Originally Posted by Seekn

Oh? So your saying WOW had bad end game design too? Because unless your guild paid fees or you had a source of income other then just raid Loot gold ( gathering/crafting/Dailies) No way in hell did you have enough gold for your consumables/Gems enchants and repairs.


Stop bitching people go gather stuff sell it or craft stuff and sell it. Go do fates/Leves or something...........in general Stop being bad.



inb4 your not end game same rules apply for end game materials If you were smart you would play the Marketplace like the rest of us.



"Gathering and Crafting is not making money its taking some one else gil from the market which if your on a new server is running out unless another 2k influx of players join ........."



Last I checked that was how money worked.... Heaven forbid gill actually stays below the area where things cost less then 100b

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If everyone leveled their crafting/gathering there would be no one to sell too -- then what??? Eventually the gil will run out. You say that is how money works lol, where are the dollar sinks in RL, we dont spend money that just disappears into oblivion, when you repair the gil is gone and there is not enough ways to make it for that to be sustainable for very long.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

sounds like lazy to me.

walk everywhere, do max level leves. make money.

also if you do crafting levels and turn in HQ stuff you can make 2K or so per quest, just tossing that out there.

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You completely missed the entire point.

More gil vanishes off the server via gil sinks, then the server puts back in via questing.

Its simple math. i'm not sure how to dumb this down any further. Dont get a credit card....

Game doesnt hand money to me by pressing "W", waaah its broke...

Try playing XI, getting money a few years ago was farming, crafting or... broke...

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Originally Posted by Ryios

...

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Yeah that's definitely an option, I'm not sure what the rate of gain on GC seals is from fates compared to the rate of decay on equipment durability so I can't really say if it's viable or not though. I'm not at home right now but dark matter is what 1k seals per? So 13k seals for a full repair?

The questions on if this is viable would be based off of how long it takes running fates for you to get 13k seals and how much your gear decayed in the process of it. Take the time that it takes you to get 13k seals and then divide that by the percentage of condition remaining and that should be how long it takes to grind a repair off fates.

You should work in gil gained during fates also at a rate of 350 gil = 1k seals to get a proper picture of it.

So if it takes you an hour of fate grinding to get enough gil + seals for a full repair, and your equipment is now at 80% condition then:
60 minutes / .8 = 75 minutes of fate grinding to earn a full repair

If you're doing fates naked then you won't need to divide the condition and you can just take actual time spent, though if you have to grind fates naked to repair gear I'm not to optimistic about how I'm going to enjoy 50.

Generally, I complete about 10 to 20 fates an hour using a well refined system of knowing what the good ones are and how often they pop and having all the maps explored. And at this level they generally yield 230 seals for a gold medal reward. Meaning I net between 2300 and 4600 GC seals. And that's just a low average, Sometimes I get lucky and get on behemoth (despite not being 50) and catch svara and all the good fates at the right times and do way better than that (double even). So at 2300 to 4600 seals that would be between 1.8 and 3.68 Gold Pieces per hour (and again that's a low estimate). So 4500 to 9200 gil an hour (low esitmate) if we could use seals to buy gold pieces on the numbers I previously stated.

And last night I ran fates for like 7 hours and was still over 80% on all my gear.

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Originally Posted by pikster

Game doesnt hand money to me by pressing "W", waaah its broke...

Try playing XI, getting money a few years ago was farming, crafting or... broke...

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Farm what oh masterful one? Everything that is farmable sells for maybe 1-2gil. Crafting gives you items that vendor for maybe 20gil...The actual damage to your gear from gathering materials and crafting will cost more than what you could make.

Crafting and selling to other people does not generate gil to the server... You might gain gil that someone else earned while leveling, but that gil will dry up within 1 month once everyone is 50. I personally have 500k due to crafting, but what happens when no one has gil to buy my crafts? They can't earn more, and I sure as hell am not going to buy stuff I can farm.

The next patch needs to address the economy before it fails. And it will fail in its current state.

Bring back dark matter for gatherers, bring back request for repairs - problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Snip

And last night I ran fates for like 7 hours and was still over 80% on all my gear.

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No way you had 80% on your gear after 7 hours of farming fates lol. One DD pretty much breaks all of your gear that is why ppl do it naked or in very low level gear. My gear is <20% in an hour of farming fates

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Or Solution B

Let us buy alagan pieces with GC Seals

50 seals = 1 bronze piece
250 seals = 1 silver piece
1250 seals = 1 gold piece

So If I fate grind all night and net 20,000 GC seals that would be 16 gold pieces worth 40,000 Gil and I'd probably repair twice for around 5k total at a net profit of 35,000 gil.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...se-GC-activity

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Originally Posted by GinTama

I'm 50 with ANC and my full repair check is over 5k too BUT, I still manage to make 10-50k profit evertime I log on. No, I don't buy gil. How I see it is, you are all simply too lazy to make gil. Use the goddamn AH and sell some stuff you get in dungeons or start up gathering.

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oh my god this x 1billion.

in b4 someone cries that there isn't enough gil generated in the world but fails to realise the thousands upon thousands of players generating gil playing through the story mode.

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Originally Posted by Dremic

LOL!.


YOU MEAN I HAVE TO WORK FOR MY MONEY?!?! this is bullshit.


hahah crafting is actually useful. do it or be poor. either way the game isnt badly designed. youre just bad at playing it.

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Hunter is a job too, hunting is hunters' work.

you can't tell all the hunters to become a carpenter like you.

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Originally Posted by Seekn

Oh? So your saying WOW had bad end game design too? Because unless your guild paid fees or you had a source of income other then just raid Loot gold ( gathering/crafting/Dailies) No way in hell did you have enough gold for your consumables/Gems enchants and repairs.


Stop bitching people go gather stuff sell it or craft stuff and sell it. Go do fates/Leves or something...........in general Stop being bad.

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WoW, at least, had other options. Dailies, as much as I hated them, gave a ton of cash. Crafting was there too, and it wasn't the only viable option. Fates/leves don't bring in as much cash the 50s imagine they do. And like many have stated, if everyone is a self sufficient crafter then no one is buying. Bubble are fun to live in, but sometimes you have to come out and see whats going on.

If leveling newbies have all the gil ... why dont you all sell to them? I sure as hell gave up crafting for now since its taking so long to do along with my combat class. I myself (at level 32ish) have a lot of gil to spare to buy weapon and armor upgrades and really having a hard time keeping up my carpentry ... and thats just for Bow upgrades.

I get that once everyone is on their 2nd and 3rd+ class that there will be much more gil leaving than coming in (if things stay as they are) but for now, with all the players questing ... there should be plenty in the economy to go around.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If you have limited playtime, you shouldn't be breaking your gear so fast. If you have time to break your gear you have time to level a crafter.

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Why do people keep on insisting that players need to level a crafter? There should be a sustainable way to keep on playing this game without bothering with DoH/DoL, instead of being completely bankrupt as pure DoM/DoW running endgame dungeons/primals.

Besides, if everyone had every crafting job to 50, who would crafters sell things to?

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Originally Posted by Jinzuki

oh my god this x 1billion.

in b4 someone cries that there isn't enough gil generated in the world but fails to realise the thousands upon thousands of players generating gil playing through the story mode.

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Then again, that isn't sustainable.

Bottomline is, i had never played a game where a player cannot sustain themselves through just normal battles. The game atm forces you to take a craft to prolong the eventual game over. New players just means prolonging gils injected to the economy but thats nothing to rely on.

Without a craft or farming, you shouldn't have a lot in bank, but also shouldn't be anywhere near a game over.

Its pointless to open a new topic about this, because every topic we spent 50%+ of the time explaining the difference between server economy vs personal wealth, sustainable growth, and healthy inflation.

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Originally Posted by echogame

Why do people keep on insisting that players need to level a crafter? There should be a sustainable way to keep on playing this game without bothering with DoH/DoL, instead of being completely bankrupt as pure DoM/DoW running endgame dungeons/primals.

Besides, if everyone had every crafting job to 50, who would crafters sell things to?

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I find it funny - Many people enjoy their time differently I do not need other to tell me to have to level something so that I can enjoy what I enjoy >.<.... there should be other ways to make sustainable income that is break even and then market for surplus.

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Originally Posted by echogame

Why do people keep on insisting that players need to level a crafter? There should be a sustainable way to keep on playing this game without bothering with DoH/DoL, instead of being completely bankrupt as pure DoM/DoW running endgame dungeons/primals.

Besides, if everyone had every crafting job to 50, who would crafters sell things to?

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Because the fanboi's dont know how else to respond.

Ya current issue of gathering gil now is that the best method is simply selling valuable items people want on the market or the lvl 45 -49 leves.

the leves lvl 45 - 49 gives between 500 gil - 600 gil per turn in so far.

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Originally Posted by echogame

Why do people keep on insisting that players need to level a crafter? There should be a sustainable way to keep on playing this game without bothering with DoH/DoL, instead of being completely bankrupt as pure DoM/DoW running endgame dungeons/primals.

Besides, if everyone had every crafting job to 50, who would crafters sell things to?

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If crafting crystals came only from running dungeons, a lot of them would be like "Why should we play a battle class if all we want to do is craft!?" but it's hard for them to put themselves in someone else's shoes.

Everyone chill! It will work out, the game is NEW : D

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Originally Posted by Riviere

If crafting crystals came only from running dungeons, a lot of them would be like "Why should we play a battle class if all we want to do is craft!?" but it's hard for them to put themselves in someone else's shoes.

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Lol actually this is truer than one might think. The best items that can be crafted require tomestones to trade for the specific ingredients. But all crafters want to do is craft!

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Originally Posted by Jinzuki

oh my god this x 1billion.

in b4 someone cries that there isn't enough gil generated in the world but fails to realise the thousands upon thousands of players generating gil playing through the story mode.

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Not Sustainable. Think about it like a ponzi scheme, money will be available on the market so long as new people start playing the game and getting to 50. The problem is there needs to be more new people than old people for it to even work and the minute this changes (aka now), the economy will drop. The biggest problem is that the system contradicts itself. Any mmo that has a repair system has trash loot that drops from mobs that you can npc for money and also endgame quests that u can grind for money. This game has neither yet has several ways to drain your gil such as repair, ah fees, teleport fees and so forth. In this regard it is much worse than 1.0 where everything could be npced for a decent amount.

In its current incarnation this game will eventually leave the player base with no gil and anyone who thinks otherwise does not have any idea of how economy works. you can have all 50 crafters and gatherers and the only money that is available to you will be what is available in the market, thats it.

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Originally Posted by echogame

Why do people keep on insisting that players need to level a crafter? There should be a sustainable way to keep on playing this game without bothering with DoH/DoL, instead of being completely bankrupt as pure DoM/DoW running endgame dungeons/primals.

Besides, if everyone had every crafting job to 50, who would crafters sell things to?

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unless you level every craft and gather to max you will always need someone else for mats. All crafts need at least 3 others to work, but you only need one to make money. There will always be someone to sell to.