Fix Ancient Magic Spells

totally agree that ranking into lvl 44 was the biggest disappointment ever! the wait time to cast is ridiculous, the animation is lame, and if the mob moves.... it misses > ugh

I propose that they switch the animations with the ones 1 tier higher (so flare has a flare II animation , fire II has a fire III animation , etc) then slowly make new animations for the highest tier.

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

I propose that they switch the animations with the ones 1 tier higher (so flare has a flare II animation , fire II has a fire III animation , etc) then slowly make new animations for the highest tier.

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Heh.. That isn't a terrible idea; however, considering the state of magic in the game upon its release and in its current incarnation I would venture to guess that the animations and visual effects for Flare II, and all higher tier magics alike, haven't even been programmed into the game yet, possibly even thought up.

It might be a better idea for SE to just do a complete redesign of the animations, visual effects, and graphical presentation for all magic spells in the game, especially Ancient Magic.

They could make two kinds of animation: one for you and your party (meaning only your pt will see it), and one for everyone else (this one showed to everyone near you, but not in your pt). The first one could me some awesome mind-blowing spell animation like in FFXIII, and the second one something like we have now. This way we could have awesome animations when playing and not disturbing other players with lightnings from the sky, but they'll still see we're casting spells :)

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi All,

Great topic.

Totally agree that Ancient Magic (Flare, Tornado, etc.) needs to be fixed and updated. Like others (adding to this thread so the Developers can see our "votes" for changing this):

1. Currently, Conjurers' Ancient Magic (Flare, Tornado, etc.) is too weak. We do more damage, faster, with basic Spells like Fire, Fire II, etc.

2. Ancient Magic looks horrible (almost non-existent). There are almost no Special Effects on what *should* be the Conjurer's best Magic Spells in the game. Instead, you can't even see any effect happening. It's unfinished.

3. Change the casting mechanic for Ancient Magic: Having to wait 60 seconds for something to go off is pretty sad, and almost unusable except on Notorious Monsters (NM), and even then, they are too weak.


We shouldn't have to second-guess and try to "add / buff up" different things to make Ancient Magic actually work (and it doesn't work with that theory anyways).

Even the way we were given Ancient Magic shows how *little* the old Development Team cared about them:

* They dump ALL Ancient Magic Spells to you at Rank 44. You learn Flare, Freeze, Tornado, Quake, Burst, Flood all at the same time! Huh?!

Ancient Magic should be earned with great fanfare, 1 per Level, with beautiful Special Effects, high Damage, and usability. Not dumped all at once and completely useless as they are now.

Conjurers' spells in general need some tweaks as well, but that's another topic.

Thanks!

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I could not agree more /sigh to big build up only to be smacked in the face.........:(

Nice to see my thread got so much support an attention, lets just hope some devs have noticed :o

I'm glad your thread did get this much attention it's an important issue for conjurers. Whenever you cast a spell to a certain extent you ask yourself "what justifies the MP price tag on this thing?" and at 100MP the AM spells currently answer that question with "nothing".

That's fine I guess because I don't miss them not being there on a day to day basis but it's just a shame it's kind of a waste.

I agree, if the AM spells are anything like XI the went in a cycle.

Flare lowers resistance to Water
Flood lowers resistance to Lightning
Burst lowers resistance to Earth
Quake lowers resistance to Wind
Tornado lowers resistance to Ice
Blizzard lowers resistance to Fire

/signed ~~~~~~~~~

The delay would be acceptable if it wasn't for the average mob dying so quickly (either solo or party). My own opinion, the first tier AMs in FFXI were more exiting then this dump of all six on one ding.

Still no feedback from devs on this?

And it's not just Ancient Magic. Take a look at conjurers in general. What is their role? On NMs at R50, they are relatively useless except for heals.. and even as healer, I usually prefer to be on my THM for the bigger range. I have all those "Black Mage" spells, but they barely tickle the enemy.. So come on, fix Ancient Magic and spells in general.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Iron

Still no feedback from devs on this?

And it's not just Ancient Magic. Take a look at conjurers in general. What is their role? On NMs at R50, they are relatively useless except for heals.. and even as healer, I usually prefer to be on my THM for the bigger range. I have all those "Black Mage" spells, but they barely tickle the enemy.. So come on, fix Ancient Magic and spells in general.

Thanks.

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I generally find that CON has the better range for heals (Resonance ftw) but the conals on THM is much better. I do agree with all said about AM magic though. They are rather pitiful in their current state and definitely changing D:

Saying that though, I was messing aorund with Flood and Water II last night when my LS was fighting Uraeus and even though it did pitiful damage, as i kept spamming Water II, when the timer went off for Flood, the gfx effect was massive! I dont know how or why, but it did look like a waterfall crashing into rocks for a second. Im going to play about with it a bit more today and try to come up with how that happened.

I think the delta rank of NMs is what kills spell damage and TP generation for DoW.

PS> Shouldn't you be using Aero against Uraeus?

Again, from playing around during NMs (and therefore killing some of my LS members lol), I've found that water works well (relative to the other elemental spells) against the NMs. But then again I have 100 points in the water stat allocation thing, and only 44 in Aero or something, so that may hinder my aero spells. =/

From what ive heard using spells such as water, water II, and drown before the timer goes off increases the effects of flood. The same goes for the other AM's. I do wish they would fix these AND I would like to see someone from the Dev team address this soon on here.

Quite a few NMs are earth-based, which water does excellent damage against. (Dodore,Mosshorn,Buffalo) Goblin and Uraeus are Fire. So i think all you need are two heavy affinities to cover the bases right now.

aye....agree's

[SIZE="6"]Give us MORE POWA !!!![/SIZE]

Our spells output dont do our crappy defense justice!

how many more Dodos do i have to sacrifice to the God of Fire before i get true power!?

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Originally Posted by Boricua

The delay would be acceptable if it wasn't for the average mob dying so quickly (either solo or party).

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I disagree. The delay would be acceptable if the damage done at the end was equal to or more than the damage you could do with Tier 2 nuking in the time allotted for the spell to cast and execute.

As it is, I could simply cast Fire II 3-4x and do 3-4x more damage than Flare. That's unacceptable unless the point of the spells is lost on all players.

Good old "Nuking" simply dosent exist in that game, makes me sick

bumping this for some attention. would the devs at least tell us how to use it, if we're even using AM correctly or not?

Yes it does make me shed a tear when I think about the good ol days and nuking.. it even makes baby jesus cry when an ancient spell goes off. :(

Has there been any hints or discussion from the Devs on actually addressing all the problems with the AM and the rest of the spells for the DoM?

I have not heard anything about AM. I would love it to be adjusted though, it feels weak. If we are using it wrong, please let us know!

+1 for fixing Ancient Magic spells, they are very disappointing.

/signed

Ancient Magic is still worthless to cast. MP cost and the wait. Sometimes it wouldn't even activate. Tried on 5 different mobs. 3 succeeded 2 failed.

/signed Definately should be fixed :)

What if the AM spells did DoT damage to the mob that gradually increases until the spell actually goes off with the restriction of having to keep the mob within the spell's area of influence? Would that justify the MP cost?

For example, if you casted Flare on a mob, and it stays in place, every time the DoT damage ticks, it'd hurt him more each time until the timer goes off and Flare activates. However if the mob moves outside of the area of influence of the Flare spell, he no longer takes damage.

What are some other ideas for AM spells? I personally think just making them big damage spells would be a bit dull and boring.

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Originally Posted by rubina

Has there been any hints or discussion from the Devs on actually addressing all the problems with the AM and the rest of the spells for the DoM?

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Not so far, and the way CON set up is currently a complete tragedy. I was a BLM in 11, and I wanted to play a similar class in 14. Every rank in my climb to 50 I was like, "The next set of nukes I get will be the ones that are like, 'Wow, now I can deal damage, not just sit here and cast Cure while the melee blow up the mob before I can even target it'".

Sadly, that never came. Once I got "ancient magic", I nearly quit the game on the spot. More MP, longer cast, STUPID mechanic... And on average, it does LESS damage than the set of nukes before it. Ridiculous. Did anyone, like, playtest this prior to release? Even a little bit? Unless CON gets adjusted to where it's an effective source of damage, I'll probably never play this game seriously (or at all, if they start charging money again before fixing it).

SE, just so you know, no party works well without mages. And if you keep all the mages at "maximum suck" like they are now, this game isn't going to take off even if you add a powerful NM in every grid on the map.

I agree with this totally, but CON is not heading towards a BLM direction at all. I rather them just lose the spells completely and remake em for a new magic class. I wanted CON to be WHM originally anyway and it looks like it will be that, but yes as far as spells go it does need a lot of tweaking on how they work and where they belong.

If these skills had some cool graphic effects would be enough to make me happy.
Sadly it does not even have that...

I dinged level 44 Conjurer today, and when I saw those pop up, I was excited. Upon my first cast, I was very sad... :(

As someone else said, if they at least had a cool animation, I would have been happy. Please fix these spells!

I like how the ancient spells work on paper, since they act like casting on a panel in FFT where anything that wandered into the AOE would get nuked. The damage needs to be higher to justify how long the wait is and how high the MP cost is. Ideally it would be a really high powered nuke that you would have to wait for but the benefit being that you can do other stuff while you wait for it to execute. It would also be nice to be able to see where exactly you've laid it out so your party can gather enemies into the AOE. Or maybe make it so the AOE spot only lasts for a while and you can somehow choose when the spell goes off, like a remote mine?

Either way they need to look cooler =P

Hey everyone! Look at the patch notes for 1.9. There may be some fixes for Ancient Magic. (Praise Jesus)

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Originally Posted by Bowen

Hey everyone! Look at the patch notes for 1.9. There may be some fixes for Ancient Magic. (Praise Jesus)

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Well, if there are fixes the patch notes don't mention them. Loss of aoe capability and increased recast timers?

I hope they're doing something to increase either their base potency, or scaling with attributes. Or anything to justify using them practically.

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Originally Posted by Ddj

Flare, Burst, Freeze, Tornado, Quake and Flood - All completly useless as they currently work in game. Remove the delayed detonation effect it makes the spells allmost unusable, getting to the level and being able to use them was the biggest let down ever.

The damage is hardly diffrent to the set of spells learnt before them, AM spells should be higher mp cost an big damage not cast an wait for it to fail.

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Nice to see my suggestions was looked at an used, good job SE.

Full buffed Tornado hitting for 1.7k on stronghold Amal. Crits for 2.4k. Hits for junk on Ifrit. Can't even break 500 w/ crit.

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Originally Posted by Narim

Well, if there are fixes the patch notes don't mention them. Loss of aoe capability and increased recast timers?

I hope they're doing something to increase either their base potency, or scaling with attributes. Or anything to justify using them practically.

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I don't know about patch notes, but if you've read the interviews, one of them had Yoshi say that he's aware ancient spells kind of suck right now and that they're actively working on making them better.