EXPLOIT: Amdapor Keep

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Originally Posted by AlternativeOne

The xp you gain in a dungeon makes it worth killing everything in it. Im only 41 but I think I need 320,000 xp to level. There is no better way than to run dungeons for xp. If people want to sac because boss are to hard and they need more time to kill it. I have know problem but personally I want to kill everything.

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The problem is that at level 50 you get no exp, and SOMETIMES you are awarded 1 gil for a pack of monsters.

1 gil SE?

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Originally Posted by Kissker

This my friend, is called a "Tactical Advantage"

if your tank can handle it - do it. if he can't, strategically plan for plan B.

Why is doing things faster, wrong in some way?

Trash mobs are named "Trash" for a reason.....

be honest your just mad you blow hours at it while they complete it 3x

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Because the rewards given by the dungeon are based on the time/difficulty SE believes the dungeon should take/is set at. SE also purposefully changed dungeon aggro after one of the beta phases to avoid people being able to skip 'trash' mobs. So no, this isn't the way SE intended for this dungeon to be run...it might not be a full out exploit that would cause a roll-back and/or people getting banned...but the dungeon should be fixed so this mechanic can't happen.

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Originally Posted by PippinsMcgee

This is more of a suggestion than a bug or exploit that needs 'fixing'.

This is normal - and fine. It is as was intended.
If you have a premade group wishing to skip straight to the boss, then more power to you.. feel free to.

If you'd rather work through the trash for items/experience/quests then do that instead.. Why impede on other peoples business as to what they do in their dungeons?

Just shut up

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Pretty confident this isn't as intended; a level designer doesn't just place in trash mobs for you to not kill them. I think exploit would be harsh to say here but "unintended" due to current game mechanics.

Also I would personally like to see trash mobs become more valuable though as end game would make them true trash mobs; possibly once capped instead of exp you gain a conversion rate of gil (do the same for fates / leves / etc).

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Because the rewards given by the dungeon are based on the time/difficulty SE believes the dungeon should take/is set at. SE also purposefully changed dungeon aggro after one of the beta phases to avoid people being able to skip 'trash' mobs. So no, this isn't the way SE intended for this dungeon to be run...it might not be a full out exploit that would cause a roll-back and/or people getting banned...but the dungeon should be fixed so this mechanic can't happen.

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If that is the case they would've put a barrier in place as they have in other dungeons so that this couldn't happen.. So really its intentional and you just want it changed because you dont think its "Fair".

Yes because dungeons where ment to avoid every mob of course. Why even enter a dungeon just bypass this and tell SE to give you the items this may work as intended however a dungeon was made just for the boss or it would be call boss battle royal. Lol it will be fixed beacuse of stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Laryndra

If that is the case they would've put a barrier in place as they have in other dungeons so that this couldn't happen.. So really its intentional and you just want it changed because you dont think its "Fair".

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It's an oversight; humans make mistakes especially when the game content is getting locked down for a release build.

FFXI: Sneak + Invisible / Sac pulling
WOW: Stealth + Lockpicking chests (And in some cases soloing bosses). You could also do what people are doing in these dungeons to skip to bosses, albeit its probably less efficient in most cases.
UO: Invis, Hide, Stealth. Mark/Recall onto boss spawns in dungeons.
Lineage 1: Ignore monsters and run straight to the boss (Or use a cloak of invis/invis spell/Absolute barrier)

This is possible in many MMORPGs in many dungeons. While it - MAY - be an oversight, its a far cry from an exploit.

And on that note I've shown how old I am.. lol..

The relevance is that the minimum level to enter Amdapor Keep is 50 and you have to had completed the main story to enter so if his top job is only 31 we are left with two different possibility's A) he has another account and posted on a alternate account to troll to keep from getting hate with his main. Or B) He heard someone talking about how the dungeon gives you 120 minutes to run it and they have run it faster. My post was not to dispute if was a exploit or not my post was to point out that based on the facts it would reason doubt that he as not done the dungeon thus he would have no grounds to call it a exploit.

Not quite sure what you're saying.. but i assure you im not an alt account or anything like that. I did setup my forum account today though just to post here.

the forum is not displaying my correct level either.
I am much higher than my profile level.

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Originally Posted by Laryndra

FFXI: Sneak + Invisible / Sac pulling
WOW: Stealth + Lockpicking chests (And in some cases soloing bosses). You could also do what people are doing in these dungeons to skip to bosses, albeit its probably less efficient in most cases.
UO: Invis, Hide, Stealth. Mark/Recall onto boss spawns in dungeons.
Lineage 1: Ignore monsters and run straight to the boss (Or use a cloak of invis/invis spell/Absolute barrier)

This is possible in many MMORPGs in many dungeons. While it - MAY - be an oversight, its a far cry from an exploit.

And on that note I've shown how old I am.. lol..

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well said

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Originally Posted by Laryndra

Not quite sure what you're saying.. but i assure you im not an alt account or anything like that. I did setup my forum account today though just to post here.

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that was not to you that was to Furio the OP= original poster

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Originally Posted by Laryndra

FFXI: Sneak + Invisible / Sac pulling
WOW: Stealth + Lockpicking chests (And in some cases soloing bosses). You could also do what people are doing in these dungeons to skip to bosses, albeit its probably less efficient in most cases.
UO: Invis, Hide, Stealth. Mark/Recall onto boss spawns in dungeons.
Lineage 1: Ignore monsters and run straight to the boss (Or use a cloak of invis/invis spell/Absolute barrier)

This is possible in many MMORPGs in many dungeons. While it - MAY - be an oversight, its a far cry from an exploit.

And on that note I've shown how old I am.. lol..

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For a more recent example, dungeons in Tera are pretty much designed with the trash mob skipping in mind. The Koreans love to skip trash in their MMOs, so the designers gave them what they wanted.

lol a lot of exploiter here spotted, don't want their easy farm to be fixed

In 1.0 all you did in dungeons was run through trash mobs. I would say put the leashing back in if they took it out, because frankly it's not difficult to fight them, it's just a time sink. Level 50's aren't needing the experience, and I believe if the developers intended for us to kill each one that they would have added blockades or keys or something.

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Originally Posted by khovel

All they need to do is for dungeons to add the whole party to the hate list once the tank gets initial agro. Tank dies, enemies move to next party member until all are dead. Problem solved. Plus removing the leashing of the enemies, just for dungeons at least.

by the way... speaking of Speed Running a dungeon, how does exp scale for clearing a dungeon in say 30 minutes opposed to 60 minutes?

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Leashing has already been removed inside dungeons, that's why the mobs will follow the tank to his death. The issue is with the aggro system and whether sac pulls are legitimate.

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

In 1.0 all you did in dungeons was run through trash mobs. I would say put the leashing back in if they took it out, because frankly it's not difficult to fight them, it's just a time sink. Level 50's aren't needing the experience, and I believe if the developers intended for us to kill each one that they would have added blockades or keys or something.

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Reason why this running through mobs mechanism was in 1.0 was because they encouraged speed runs, where certain rewards are obtained only through speed runs. But the devs are removing this way of playing in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Laryndra

If that is the case they would've put a barrier in place as they have in other dungeons so that this couldn't happen.. So really its intentional and you just want it changed because you dont think its "Fair".

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It's not about being 'fair'. It's simple: if we're supposed to 'skip' mobs in a dungeon, then there should be a reason (besides farm faster) for it. Like, for example, the whole party needs to get through this room undetected otherwise a strong, high def. Mob will spawn to 'protect' the smaller mobs, and you get locked in until you kill them.

There is no sport in a 'sac' tank pull...at least not in this case. It just sounds like something that was an oversite, and not something 'working as intended'

And, thinking I don't see it as 'fair' also implies you don't think I'm capable of speed runs...which is not true, but if it makes you feel better fine. But anyway, I'm saying this AS someone who's had to spend countless hours in 1.0, running behind tanks as they leashed entire rooms en route to a boss... /meh. If SE only intended on us killing the bosses, then they should make them like primal battles. Enter room, kill big baddie, leave.


The main point is this: When you somehow circumvent that time/effort and still get the reward intended for a through clear, it needs to be looked at, and potentially 'adjusted'. Now, if SE did expect players to speed run/ sac pull in here, no biggie. Carry on. But most of us would agree...thats probably not what they had in mind, especially after they went and adjusted dungeons so this would no longer happen.

To be honest I have no problem with this sac pulling. Ive done these dungeons watching the DPS beat on trash enough so after seeing that for a while I love having a group that is ready to run through everything and get to the good part.

I respect people that like the Dungeon experience but after doing a single dungeon 10 times it kinda gets stale. Then god forbid you get in a group where people Bitch at each other the WHOLE time.

If you want the Dungeon Experience then I feel for atleast the first time you deserve to explore and kill all of the Mobs but in any MMO people are going to look for any way to obtain gear the quickest so they can get to the harder content.

If the game developers want people to skip all the trash give an option to remove all the thrash while joining through duty finder.

At the moment it's clearly exploiting or as some people call it "clever use of game mechanics".

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Originally Posted by Furio

The mobs run back to their original position and the healer resurrects the tank.

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Had no idea you could resurrect in this game.

Also sacrificial pull != exploit.

Two easy ways to fix this. Either tie all the trash into the boss's aggro table (everything left alive pulls when it does), or put the entire party into combat/on the threat table when the boss is pulled, not just the tank.

There are two sides to the story.

1) The lvl 50 people trying to gear as fast as possible in order to get ready/do endgame content.
2) The people that wont ever really touch endgame content that take their time with EVERYTHING. (Most are not even 50 yet)

Take your pick.
(I'm with 1 btw =P)

PS - Not that I think option 2 is necessarily a bad thing, I just never pay attention to the story and love to jump into endgame right away :) To each their own.

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I just never pay attention to the story and love to jump into endgame right away

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And 2 weeks later you complain about no end content...

Anyway, if a group wants to do it: why not? I for sure know i won´t do it, at least not the first 5-10 runs. Later, maybe. Why not?

I would assume that the people denying it's an exploit are the ones who are abusing it or plan to abuse it. However, you posted this in the wrong section and it should be under In-Game Bugs. Posting it there will allow them to determine if it is truly an exploit or not. Whereas here, you will just people's opinions saying "It's not an exploit! It's part of the game!" or "It's definitely an exploit.". You will not know who to believe as they may be joking with you.

can i assume those supporting training is an exploit must not play MMOs that much... in aion there are over a zillion videos teaching ppl how to train. especially with clerics. they have a self res and practically die their way to the dungeon bosses, than farm the bosses by themselves.

nobody thought it was exploit...

if the group is okay with it, tank is free to do so... if you're the only one not okay with this method, feel free to drop out.

if you found a way to bug the boss. so it would only melee atk you, no aoe, no teleporting, no adds, no healing, nothing... that is an exploit. which btw, tons of ppl in aion do as well. game dev tried to fix it, but ppl figured out what the patch was and still manage to bug the boss.

if you think training is an exploit, you haven't seen any real exploiting...

We should put this exploit in the japanese forum so maybe any moderator will read it.

Give me a reason to kill trash aside from the chance of getting 1 gil, or some useless crafting mat, and I'll consider killing the trash.

Time is the only thing worth value in these dungeons.

Put this way to and this is for everyone. SE will determine if this is an exploit not you and not I. If it gets changed it gets changed if it doesn't then stop crying about it. Do the dungeon how you want to do it. Its still the best dungeon to do to gear up.

Well, SE are now aware of it, if they don't like people doing it they have some very simple options to change it. /thread

If you don't like it, then don't do it. You can still do a full, slow clear if you choose.

This won't be changed.

How can anyone honestly say this isn't an exploit? What purpose do you think the trash has besides slowing you down? If the designers wanted you to just march on through to the boss, why would the trash mobs exist at all? Give your head a shake. Sac pulling can't even be called a clever use of game mechanics, there is nothing clever about it. I feel like this is the first MMO most people have played.

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Originally Posted by Rurushan

How can anyone honestly say this isn't an exploit? What purpose do you think the trash has besides slowing you down? If the designers wanted you to just march on through to the boss, why would the trash mobs exist at all? Give your head a shake. Sac pulling can't even be called a clever use of game mechanics, there is nothing clever about it. I feel like this is the first MMO most people have played.

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I can't wait until you spend.. Oh I don't know.. 7 runs.. So that's probably without wipes of course 7 hours? 7 and a half hours if you're using duty finder for sure just to cap your Myth a WEEK.

You're literally spending 90% of that time either clearing trash mobs or wiping to the wall. And that 7 hours is being generous, so many people still don't understand that boss fight that it's completely beyond me.

I've watched someone do a run like this on twitch. Not against this at all. Once you play the dungeon at it's entirety 5 times, you tend to get a little bit bored of it.

if this is a exploit that means in 1.0 when we had to do 17 min speed runs In AV=The Aurum Vale and CC= Cuters Cry for items for relic quest we where exploiting the system because we would run along a wall and skip half the mobs and then we would sleep mobs and run past to the portal or just run past them till they de-aggro. all people are doing in Amdapor keep is speed running it not exploiting anything where not using some bug to give us a leg up we are not hacking a system to make it better for us we are doing the same thing that ever player that has accuse to the dungeon can do we. In the completion guidelines for the dungeon is says nothing about kill ever mob that gets in your way it give you 3 requirements and we chose the best way to do those in the fastest time we can so we can move on to the next run.

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also all the peaple that say this is a exploit next time you run through a zone and get aggro and just keep running so you dont have to fight knowing the mob will lose aggro on you after a set time or distance you are exploiting that fact.

Well every MMO player in most MMO's can do this. Its been a long time quick tip for experienced dungeon runners. If you are there only for gear that drops from the bosses why would you spend all that time doing trash mobs unless it is for a quest requirement.

Take 1-2hours for 1 run or would you do 2 runs in the same time and double your chances for that gear drop...which would you choose? It is just like complaining about how doing Fate farming is quicker to level than doing questing ....either one is fine. Next time in your group make sure you tell them not to do a train.

If you are there for an experience run then i could see your point but like others before said its not an exploit "its working smarter not harder"

Man we must have been exploiting this game real hard during 1.0 AV & CC then.

Oh wait. SE made us do that.

Almost every group I get does this. Granted it helps get the tomestones faster, it defeats the purpose of them removing leashing from monsters. Should be fixed.

I dont think is a Exploit. If the game mechanics allow this gameplay why cant be used?

I never did amdapor.

Lets wait and see what happens :)

cya!

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Originally Posted by LebronJames

I can't wait until you spend.. Oh I don't know.. 7 runs.. So that's probably without wipes of course 7 hours? 7 and a half hours if you're using duty finder for sure just to cap your Myth a WEEK.

You're literally spending 90% of that time either clearing trash mobs or wiping to the wall. And that 7 hours is being generous, so many people still don't understand that boss fight that it's completely beyond me.

I've watched someone do a run like this on twitch. Not against this at all. Once you play the dungeon at it's entirety 5 times, you tend to get a little bit bored of it.

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So this IS your first MMO, then? Here is how it works: Player gets to level cap, further expansion of character is then decided by gear upgrades. Getting better gear often means running large dungeons or raids but key enemies (bosses) will only drop a few pieces of gear to be divvied up amongst the party. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you dont. But why shouldn't a boss just drop gear for everyone all the time? Why isn't there a simple algorithm to determine what the boss could drop that is an upgrade to you? Why should you ever have to beat this dungeon more than once?

It's simple, the developers want you to keep playing the game so you keep paying them to play, obviously. To do this, they want to balance the time it takes to achieve the upper limits of your character against the time it takes to churn out the next content patch. Ideally, hardcore players (the minority) will be 'done' halfway(-ish) through the lifespan of a current content patch for which they were 'maxed' out in the patch prior to this one. Ultimately though, players with such devotion will likely play the game anyway whether or not they have done everything. Casual players (the majority) will be reaching their limits JUST before the next content patch so they will always have something to strive for and will continue playing (and paying) because of it.

So how do you fill in that gap? Having no guarantee on gear due to random drops and/or rolling against other players for gear is one way. Naturally, dungeons are designed to impede you... otherwise there would be no bosses, just a room with a treasure chest, go get your loot! Bosses and trash mobs are supposed to block your path and make you work for your gear and you are supposed to fight them ad infinitum until the next content patch arrives.

If it sucks for you, do something else. A good MMO will have plenty of distractions from the 'main' goal of gearing up and gaining power. Obviously it will all become boring if you repeat the same things over and over again but it is supposed to be an investment of your time to keep you paying to play.

And 7 hours to cap for the week? Thats cute. And people say WoW went too casual.

Edit: It's an exploit, but I encourage it. Players will inevitably always find the shortest path to power by ANY means available to them in-game. Someone at SQEX is going to see this in action, say 'thats not good game design' and it'll be changed accordingly. The game only gets better because of complaints and concerns made vocal. It's not as simple as having the mobs aggro onto the entire party in a dungeon... there's a clear reason why players are avoiding the trash. I would like to think that the devs would re-examine how long it takes to clear the trash, adjust their power accordingly if necessary, and maybe do something to encourage killing them - improve gil drops, add rare drops that only trash in that dungeon can drop, etc.

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Originally Posted by Rurushan

So this IS your first MMO, then? Here is how it works: Player gets to level cap, further expansion of character is then decided by gear upgrades. Getting better gear often means running large dungeons or raids but key enemies (bosses) will only drop a few pieces of gear to be divvied up amongst the party. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you dont. But why shouldn't a boss just drop gear for everyone all the time? Why isn't there a simple algorithm to determine what the boss could drop that is an upgrade to you? Why should you ever have to beat this dungeon more than once?

It's simple, the developers want you to keep playing the game so you keep paying them to play, obviously. To do this, they want to balance the time it takes to achieve the upper limits of your character against the time it takes to churn out the next content patch. Ideally, hardcore players (the minority) will be 'done' halfway(-ish) through the lifespan of a current content patch for which they were 'maxed' out in the patch prior to this one. Ultimately though, players with such devotion will likely play the game anyway whether or not they have done everything. Casual players (the majority) will be reaching their limits JUST before the next content patch so they will always have something to strive for and will continue playing (and paying) because of it.

So how do you fill in that gap? Having no guarantee on gear due to random drops and/or rolling against other players for gear is one way. Naturally, dungeons are designed to impede you... otherwise there would be no bosses, just a room with a treasure chest, go get your loot! Bosses and trash mobs are supposed to block your path and make you work for your gear and you are supposed to fight them ad infinitum until the next content patch arrives.

If it sucks for you, do something else. A good MMO will have plenty of distractions from the 'main' goal of gearing up and gaining power. Obviously it will all become boring if you repeat the same things over and over again but it is supposed to be an investment of your time to keep you paying to play.

And 7 hours to cap for the week? Thats cute. And people say WoW went too casual.

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so the tl;dr version is that you enjoy wasting time? I can tell you have copious amounts of experience with FFXIV with your join date and job levels. How about you get past level 20 before you comment on how endgame dungeons should be tweeked?

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

so the tl;dr version is that you enjoy wasting time? I can tell you have copious amounts of experience with FFXIV with your join date and job levels. How about you get past level 20 before you comment on how endgame dungeons should be tweeked?

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I don't think MMOs are for you. This is just basic design and does not specifically apply to FFXIV, whether I have been to its endgame or not. If it's BORING, thats one thing, but if its taking up your time, thats working as intended. You don't know what you're getting into if after the 5th or 6th run of the same dungeon you start complaining.

not a fkn exploit, stop whining and move on.