FATE System -- Worst Idea Imaginable

I level through FATES and the main story quest mainly, but for a specific reason.

I plan to level all classes to cap eventually, and I realise that over time less people will be doing FATES because they're at level cap, so I just thought: Why not go with FATES now while the people are there and save the quests for leveling other classes once I may struggle finding other people to play with?

Oops double post, ignore this :p

IMO if they scaled the mobs better to accommodate more players then it would be ok, every time im leveling and i find a fate and there is just the right amount of players there then it is fun, when there is too much ppl you hardly can get a hit on any mob unless you spam aoe

FATEs suck the life out of this great game.

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Originally Posted by Kalam

Play the game the way you want, I personally enjoy Fates and dungeons.

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the problem is theres no "playing the way you want" if FATES give such better exp rewards than anything else that all your friends who do FATES outrace you to the end by weeks.

I feel like the FATES should be more like world bosses than what they currently are now which is just a group of mobs spawning over and over.

i want to echo all the talk of AOE spam and just pure zerg mindset that fates are. I avoid them now, which is harming my EXP. I just am so bored of AOE AOE AOE dead. we might as well just be standing there pressing one button again and again, which is in fact what we are doing. I feel that fates. The idea of sudden public quests are a great idea. However they have been planned out poorly.

I would like to see each zone having one big boss fate that spawns every few hours. A boss that plays out a lot like higher level instance bosses do. It would be nice if Fates felt flashyl if they felt a lil hard at the very last. The game has a few problems and fates being mostly trash is near the top of the list.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

I personally think that the boss FATES are strong enough but the ones with waves of mobs needs to be more tougher and last longer since they're being zerged too quickly that if you don't manage to claim your own target the exp and gil you get are weak. That is a challenge in itself however since most people tag mobs either with aoe or just hit it and run to the next one so that they can get any drops for having tagged it first, even if they don't do most of the damage. I've seen the same thing happen with quest mobs too.

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Of course, this isn't the good kind of challenge. Challenges should be fun. This isn't.

Like many things, FATEs are a great concept but have been implemented in a way that makes them easy to abuse and it comes down to a conflict between the two (and between those players who just see highest exp/hr numbers, and those who want to enjoy things as they were designed).

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Originally Posted by Meleoron

i want to echo all the talk of AOE spam and just pure zerg mindset that fates are. I avoid them now, which is harming my EXP. I just am so bored of AOE AOE AOE dead. we might as well just be standing there pressing one button again and again, which is in fact what we are doing. I feel that fates. The idea of sudden public quests are a great idea. However they have been planned out poorly.

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At this point, we may as well be given the "instant lv50" button. It would save the mindlessness of FATE grinding, and save people's time which is really what FATE grinding is doing - it would take longer without doing it (nostalgic thought: I remember when I first hit the level cap in my first MMO, it was such an incredible feeling - I've never felt that since; it's just a race to the end now).

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Originally Posted by Shmashed

Eh, I am not sure what you are on about. I do play the game the way I want, so what you are saying is rather nonsense. Regarding FATE, I like them as well? They were fun at lower levels and even at higher levels as long as there is fewer people. Its just once you get in the 30-50 range they become surprisingly common, give massive amounts of xp, and form long cycles that can be farmed quite easily. It is asinine to think this is "balanced" or at all desirable except for those who are rushing 50 at all costs.

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Not just that but when those 50+ fate farmers show up it ends up giving some rendering issues
in the svana fate, in the final part when svana the dragon shows up, i see her then she vanishes and then i cant even attack it and gain very little exp
mind you though around 30 - 50 people are attacking it

needs to be fixed
when a few people are in it, like around a regular party worth of people, then fates are very fun

yep! Baal runs from Diablo 2. Fates killed this game. Bah! Meh!

FATE is bad for an MMO, I know it's a straight copy off GW2, but GW2 is a free to play game.
I don't have much expectation from that game, but FF14 is different. FF11 involved a lot of group grinding, and it was extremely hard to level, I understand that game model does not work in 2013, but FF14ARR made it too easy with FATE grind

The worse thing is FATE parties, they will have a least a few blackmages spamming AOE at the spawn areas, making it really difficult for people outside those parties to gain a gold or even a silver medal from these FATEs. As a gladiator, with limited AOE abilities, I am unable to give a monster a second hit before my second global cooldown finishes.

Now, this is really unfair for people like myself, who wants to enjoy all aspects of the game, quests, leves, FATE, dungeons etc....because I don't want to belong to a FATE grind party.

Also, I know a few friends, will auto follow members of these FATE parties, and AFK to leech experience and seals.

SE, if you truly care about the quality of your game, I suggest decreasing the rewards from FATEs or increasing the reward from place where more efforts are required.

Perhaps I am bitter that people just auto follow and afk, but there is certainly flaw in the system that needs attention.

The "worst idea imaginable" is gross exaggeration on the title, but I agree that FATEs are a problem. Too low risk, too high reward. Especially on the monster bash ones. Tagging enemies with damage as fast as you can doesn't take any skill, it just takes you to be a certain class. The rewards are disproportionate in comparison to anything else especially to the little effort that it takes.

I guess an easy fix would be to heavily lower the XP gain of the rewards and of individual enemies on FATEs. Making some of them more rare would probably be good too. Levequests would also need a desperate boost to be able to compete with them.

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Originally Posted by Moontide

The "worst idea imaginable" is gross exaggeration on the title, but I agree that FATEs are a problem. Too low risk, too high reward. Especially on the monster bash ones. Tagging enemies with damage as fast as you can doesn't take any skill, it just takes you to be a certain class. The rewards are disproportionate in comparison to anything else especially to the little effort that it takes.

I guess an easy fix would be to heavily lower the XP gain of the rewards and of individual enemies on FATEs. Making some of them more rare would probably be good too. Levequests would also need a desperate boost to be able to compete with them.

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I totally agree with everyone who wants Fates to be nerfed, because we definitely need to make it even longer, even more endless grind-ish and even more tiring to lvl up all the combat classes when you use all your leve allowances to lvl up your crafting classes... /sarcasm off. Pull your self together people.

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Originally Posted by Fazer

I totally agree with everyone who wants Fates to be nerfed, because we definitely need to make it even longer, even more endless grind-ish and even more tiring to lvl up all the combat classes when you use all your leve allowances to lvl up your crafting classes... /sarcasm off. Pull your self together people.

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FATE is a problem if it renders all other leveling options obsolete in both experience and easiness as it does now. It's a fun system otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Moontide

FATE is a problem if it renders all other leveling options obsolete in both experience and easiness as it does now. It's a fun system otherwise.

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It does not render other lvling (besides doing dungeons of course) obsolete, because you will not be able to lvl up 2 combat classes with the story quests, side quest and huntinglogs alone, without doing a lot of fates on the sideline. Levequests is good for lvling your crafting classes. Would you rather go around killing mobs one at a time for hours and hours each day while waiting for a dungeon group to pop up(if you're a dps that is) or would you rather go around and do Fates while waiting for the dungeon finder to pop up? Fates is easy XP yes, but so is going around doing your hunting log and grinding mobs by killing them one-by-one, the latter is just much MUCH more time consuming and irritating.

You obviously have never played FF11, this game is easy to level without the FATE system in comparison. Not saying, it should go back to FF11 game model, but this is ridiculous.

Surely, by no means should SE remove FATE, but reducing the experience awarded by these FATEs will seem more reasonable, and make other leveling options more attractive, or someone else suggested, diminishing returns on the experience gained from FATE, so it acts as a filler leveling activity rather than the ONLY thing you can do to maximize your xp/hour.

Yeah, leveling might be more time consuming and more irritating, but if you want to be hardcore and level all your classes/job. I guess you will have to go through the hardship to consider yourself a hardcore player.

Short answer: Yes, I would rather make things take a bit more time and a lot more skill and effort.

Long answer:
A bit more thoughtful and challenging experience would be more to my liking, and it would probably make people look a bit more at their gear and tactics. Even if it's just simple combat in a way or another, if that monster/monsters can pose a serious threat it would be a much more fun experience IMO. More motivation for the Disciples of the Hand & Land that way too (That bit would need something to be done to the overabundance of vendor-sold gear though).

Currently FATEs don't really even feel like real combat. They feel like trying to desperately tag as many enemies as you can with damage so you'll get some experience. Little to no strategy involved beyond twitch-based targeting and skill spam. It's Whack-a-Mole. I don't want to see FATEs gone, but just to have it be on-par with the rest of the content in the challenge versus reward -sense.

the idea behind FATE is ok, but its just to simple, you have to do very little to get huge exp. I dont have a problem with the amount of exp you get but it really should be more difficult. I'd like to see FATE with a boss and one which requires some tactics and teamwork not just mindless bashing my keyboard (and preferably a boss type of monster that doesnt pop every 5 minutes). the FATE with multiple mobs are just a huge mess, targetting a mob is just awfull and people just spam AoE which doesnt result in skillfull play. Why not make it so that you can collect titles from the boss type FATE monsters and once you collected X-titles you can exchange them for a reward (a nice piece of gear for example) so that people would still try to do FATE and not just jump to the next thing in line to max out there exp with as little effort possible

I kind of think they should get rid of group sharing exp from fates. I think if you solo fates are reasonable cause by the time I get to any fate it's done. I only do fates if they pop up. I think they need to add more to the hunting logs cause that helped me level I barely did fates the whole game and I'm level 42. I like main quest missions when thier over what is there to do.

Being a paladin without an aoe until level 50 makes jumping into a FATE group and grinding to level cap extremely hard, not to mention boring beyond belief. For most FATEs, all I can do is just sit there, maybe toss out Flash but everything is dead before I even get a chance to target it. I think not having enough quests to hit level cap through questing and FORCING people to have to level this way, as it's the only viable option, is beyond absurd. Not to mention not being able to see any of the mobs because of the sheer number of people AOE zerging in a FATE.
They're fairly fun while leveling until you get to Northern Thanalan where everyone is zerging them to the point where they feel trivial. It's the lack of options to even reach the level cap that are ruining FATEs and making them awful. Maybe if they had a system that counted each person involved in the FATE and adjusted the difficulty on a per person basis, might alleviate the problem as well. Maybe make the exp rewards and effort on par with dungeons or add more side quests to get to 50. Just my opinion at least

Unfortunately the Director has a disdain for leveling through quest. you can see more and more FATE's appearing as the game gets older, eventually reverting back to the way of FFXI but instead grinding on mobs you're grinding out on FATE's, but I can see the reason for the fates. imagine how boring the dungeon grind would be, dungeons give little to no exp compared the fates, and they don't even give out seals for completing them, unless a mob from the GC hunting log is in there.

No hyperbole: The FATE system is some of the worst videogame content I've ever played.

It is just broken, brain-dead content that the game pushes onto you due to gaps in the story. As the main means to level once you complete the story, it is the face of the game's experience under 50 and it is... ugly. Dungeons, guildleves, and guildhests don't match up and players, as humans, will take the path of least resistance, sinking the community along with them. If FATEs are the main content of the game 1-49 after the main scenario is completed, then the game is terrible.

I don't think they need to be nerfed, I think they need to be entirely redesigned from the ground up. I actually wrote a list of changes I think FATEs need, but I'll post it some other day.

In any case, the absurdity of FATEs and the brutal endgame grind of tomestones will kill this game for a lot of people. The main scenario (the big thing this game advertised as a "real Final Fantasy", although it is just very easy standard MMO filler outside primals and dungeons) can be cleared within the free month if people play somewhere around 15 hours a week (dungeons being dead may extend that, but not in a way that will make people want to play more). I hate to say it, but this game is on its way to F2P status. And no, you can't say "but FFXI...", this game is nothing like FFXI ("game starts at 50" design philosophy, no community hooks, people are far ruder because duty finder allows it, standard modern MMO mechanics (no cooperative mechanics), little multinational presence on servers, economy makes no sense, gear is a linear progression (no one cares about loot or crafted items before 50, everything 50+ is a sequence of gear checks), endgame actively discourages having more than one job because it is an insane linear grind, etc etc). It has nothing to do with FFXI and it is good elements are going to be blotted out by the two main types of content being poor (leveling other classes, endgame).

They need to imply seals are for FATES and Higher exp in dungeons.

Leves should be same as FATES but with mid-rewards to ready up for your next Dundeon. 3:1 exp
FATES should be for higher Seal bonuses 2:1 exp Seals 5:1
Dungeons (with +content regularly updated) Should be the highest EXP and Top tier for Level Loot 5:1 exp With Seal bonus at Final Boss, Seals 2:1

BAM Fixed!

But really, I'm sure they will see this and fix soon. Fix the balance and it'll be good.

Hopefully they will do the DAOC PVP system. So using PVE Gear is able to be used in PVP... then they can have battlegrounds for level 20 30 40 and then 50s. People will start caring about the Dungeons and crafting to have a top geared toon for each. Which will carry the best armor for pvp/pve
Thats is how you get Dungeons to matter and you can then use LEVES for each level pvp zone "end game pvp" geared jewelry or something.

all and all FATES need to be just for seals. that can be great for PVP with a full suit of company armor


BC lets face it, it was perfect in DAOC...

Mythic just failed because they brought out WARHAMMER.. such a failure.....so they took away all their players from DAOC, then WOW came out.
but there is also 200k+? players playing the free servers.

I like fates but they are a mess, they also get in the way of gathering.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

During the early beta phases these "were" fun, but now with the high server populations it's an aoe spam fast that is over within seconds of it starting. People who have their own chocobos and those who farm fates in packs of 50+ are piling in fast on them before anyone else can reach them and often I'm arriving just as it ends. They really need to last longer and be more harder because I'm getting barely any credit for that 1 hit I manage to get in on a mob before 50+ people smash it to death.

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This sums it up for me.The amount of spam messages there is asking for fate grps is near enough as bad as the gil sellers.Think the fate system really needs a rethink or some tweaks.I can't really beleave SE intended 8 man grps to farm fates (none bosses).They just remind me of GW2 WvW and zerg upon zerg ....