Heals for Scholors need a buff

Uhm, how do you guys get Quickcast onto your Scholar? Mine won't let me access the thaum spells I could as an arcanist so I don't have it. My summoner does but cannot take the healer spells. I figured it was a limiting mechanic since Smn is DPS and Sch is Healer.

And the War has begun. WHMs Vs SCHs, remember when you got your fairy to the ruin of Nym to remember some spells? yep, that was caused by the ancient war between WHMs and SCHs! WHMs won which is why we are only recently remembered, but they are going down this time!

and damn it, now I have to level THM to 26? heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell no!
hmmm...my calculations shows that I'll fail about 68% of the time without swiftcast...damn it!

Wait, that's odd. Now I can access the black spells...

Oh and my opinion on the Scholar's 'Gimped' healing. HAHAHAHAHAHA *snort* BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I cast a 300 heal and equal stoneskin in a single burst and you call it weak?! AHAHAHAH *choke* Hee. That doom caster? Cake. Now that I have quickcast? Lemon Pie. 200 Hp DoT on my fairy? AoE too weak at 150+150 stoneskin...

Dear god. With my Fairy casting a 300 heal instantly on the lowest HP target faster than I can with the npc's lack of ping lagg? I keep telling myself that Scholar isn't Op. It's not. Not even when I solo'd a 49 and 50 birdman at level 41 with no trouble and some help from my Chocobo. The only time I have trouble with healing is caused by lagg but even when I lagg my mighty Pixie holds the fort. Hell sometimes I can stand there doing nothing while she keeps everyone alive. I've done it just to see how good they are.

As for the AI bug on Selene. They should drop the boost to 15% and make them perma toggles.

Scholar's usually have about triple the WHM's healing in an 8 man. I don't see why they'd need a buff.

We just had several runs of Ifrit HM, I was the SCH and the other guy was a WHM. He had darklight robe and an ifrit weapon, I had a level 44 chest, level 26 boots (lolRPgear) and an ifrit weapon. These are the results after the fight. Note that the shields from SCH spells are not counted into healing done so the numbers should have been a few thousand higher + I have a pet.

http://puu.sh/4gFvo.png

http://puu.sh/4gGpU.png

I don't think SCH needs a buff, they're pretty damn good.

that's impressive, I knew our heals are good but didn't know WHM is that bad.
I'm still putting all my money on crit rating being our major stat, 25%-30% to crit would be optimal, but I don't know if this is achievable in this game.

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Originally Posted by Kupo_Nut

that's impressive, I knew our heals are good but didn't know WHM is that bad.
I'm still putting all my money on crit rating being our major stat, 25%-30% to crit would be optimal, but I don't know if this is achievable in this game.

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They aren't bad. That parse doesn't tell you anything other than Nephyron was first to cure, or maybe just a better player. Parsing healing isn't like parsing damage.

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Originally Posted by Nephyron

We just had several runs of Ifrit HM, I was the SCH and the other guy was a WHM. He had darklight robe and an ifrit weapon, I had a level 44 chest, level 26 boots (lolRPgear) and an ifrit weapon. These are the results after the fight. Note that the shields from SCH spells are not counted into healing done so the numbers should have been a few thousand higher + I have a pet.

http://puu.sh/4gFvo.png

http://puu.sh/4gGpU.png

I don't think SCH needs a buff, they're pretty damn good.

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First, what parser is this?
Second, would be really interesting to see a parse split down into skills and to see how much healing was done by the fairy.

Also, HPS is really not the only indication of a good or powerful healer. Fast burst heals on the tank and mitigation are as much needed and are keeping a group alive. Also, does that parser count over healing too?

Uhm... in that list is Eos.
So it does show how much the fairy did.

I found that the class felt extremely lacking at first, until I decided to start micromanaging my pet. After that, I felt like I was maybe a little bit too powerful. The fact that you can lock on a pet heal as you start casting a shield heal is extremely powerful. It's a bit annoying, but the fact that SCH is essentially impossible to oom + good micromanaging of your pet, I think it's more than fair to say that SCH is in an extremely powerful place.

In my 8 years of healing in MMO's, I've never played a class that just felt so blatantly overpowered. Maybe my opinions will change when I hit 50 and start doing HM content, but so far I'm not seeing that they are weak. The one thing I do note is that a stronger AOE heal without the shield would be nice, but it's not hard to just pop the AOE shield and then make your faerie heal up those that took damage. If they aren't the tank, the shield should hold for full duration in a lot of situations, giving you ample time to catch everyone up.

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Originally Posted by AreeSoothsayer

Uhm... in that list is Eos.
So it does show how much the fairy did.

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Ah Eos is the fairy? Didn't know that :)
I find the parser a bit weird to read in general.

yes'm. Eos and Selene are the fairy names.

If you are going to compare sch+fairy heal then compare whm cure+regen

The fairy heals about every 4 to 5 seconds due to it responding a bit slow and the fact we cant order it to heall
while we are mid cast.

The fairy's heal does not heal directly proportionate to a heal from the sch with 300 potency. The fairy a heals a fair amount less then the sch

tested 1 heal My fairy heals for 414 my heal is 520

Regen ticks for 270 every xx second and be placed on multiple allies and it can crit too.

Would rather have regen then the pet heal lol. There is also medica regen. Which stacks with your regen .

It's not particularly difficult to control the fairy in an effective manner. I always queue a fairy heal before I start to cast any of mine. I only let it freely heal if I have a lot of AOE healing to do.

Consider your fairy heals for 414, your heal is for 520, and then you get a 520 shield on the target that you healed. That is effectively 1454 healing on a single target in very very very little time. SCH is kind of annoying class if you don't like micromanaging, but if you're good at micro, it's pretty rigged.

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Originally Posted by Miyuyu

It's not particularly difficult to control the fairy in an effective manner. I always queue a fairy heal before I start to cast any of mine. I only let it freely heal if I have a lot of AOE healing to do.

Consider your fairy heals for 414, your heal is for 520, and then you get a 520 shield on the target that you healed. That is effectively 1454 healing on a single target in very very very little time. SCH is kind of annoying class if you don't like micromanaging, but if you're good at micro, it's pretty rigged.

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Cure 2 + regen heals near that amount, without the clunky pet.

There also the fact that barrier is wasted when you cast another heal.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

If you are going to compare sch+fairy heal then compare whm cure+regen

The fairy heals about every 4 to 5 seconds due to it responding a bit slow and the fact we cant order it to heall
while we are mid cast.

The fairy's heal does not heal directly proportionate to a heal from the sch with 300 potency. The fairy a heals a fair amount less then the sch

tested 1 heal My fairy heals for 414 my heal is 520

Regen ticks for 270 every xx second and be placed on multiple allies and it can crit too.

Would rather have regen then the pet heal lol. There is also medica regen. Which stacks with your regen .

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Different styles of healing. The thing about having a pet that can heal is that it doesn't cost a cooldown to compete with your other heals for her to heal. She can heal while you are running. She can heal while you are stunned. Her heals don't add to your enmity. And she's a lot cuter than the regen effect visual. I really like Selene and Eos. I just want a few tweaks to make them more easily controlled.

Plus, giving us regen ontop of our numerous shield spells is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Vyserion

Different styles of healing. The thing about having a pet that can heal is that it doesn't cost a cooldown to compete with your other heals for her to heal. She can heal while you are running. She can heal while you are stunned. Her heals don't add to your enmity. And she's a lot cuter than the regen effect visual. I really like Selene and Eos. I just want a few tweaks to make them more easily controlled.

Plus, giving us regen ontop of our numerous shield spells is ridiculous.

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Regen and medica 2 can heal while your running too.

Whm has superior burst heal which is why they edge out sch currently. 2 sch in the same pt penalise each other too which needs fixing.

For preemptive healing whm has the 2 regens and 18% stoneskin.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Cure 2 + regen heals near that amount, without the clunky pet.

There also the fact that barrier is wasted when you cast another heal.

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There's a reason you keep your non-shield heal on your bars. You also shouldn't be casting another shield heal if there is a shield on the tank already. Pre \ cancelcast is a good practice to have. Scholar is a lot like Disc priest in the sense that you can pre-empt damage in prep for high damage periods \ hits you know that are coming. You can buffer a lot of damage while tank healing as well. Shields in any game that have them are very, very powerful tools.

You also have the added benefit of not being able to oom if you manage Aetherflow and Energy Drain really well. You can outlast WHM pretty easily and do equivalent \ better healing.

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Originally Posted by Miyuyu

There's a reason you keep your non-shield heal on your bars. You also shouldn't be casting another shield heal if there is a shield on the tank already. Pre \ cancelcast is a good practice to have. Scholar is a lot like Disc priest in the sense that you can pre-empt damage in prep for high damage periods \ hits you know that are coming. You can buffer a lot of damage while tank healing as well. Shields in any game that have them are very, very powerful tools.

You also have the added benefit of not being able to oom if you manage Aetherflow and Energy Drain really well. You can outlast WHM pretty easily and do equivalent \ better healing.

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Since barrer is wasted you are forced to use a 400 potency heal, which will knock down the numbers compared to whm's cure 2 +regen

Sch's shield are nowhere near as strong as disco priest. Sch only has 1 shield too. Which is 150 potency for the easy aoe version. Which is like 280hp a dps has 3000hp+ and the higher potency shield is like 500hp. Disco priest laughs at sch pidly shields.

Its not like whm has no preemptive healing . Whm has stoneskin 18% and two regem. They also have bigger numbers as well

They're pretty strong considering that there is no limit to applying them and you can apply them just by healing normally. You're still arguing two different types of healing with strengths and weaknesses to each.

SCH has a lot of utility + strong healing, though not optimal.

WHM is more of a healing machine with less utility.

"bigger numbers" does not a better healer make. Not when the two classes excel at two different things.

But whm excells at everything sch does expect for being mana efficient in long fights. Brd cures that , a hardmode pt will have a brd.

Whm can shield and place regens on people,

One thing that SCH can do that WHM can not is move and heal at the same time. Especially in Brayflox being able to move out of the poison he spits at me but still have my fairy to heal the tank has been a huge saver. Also, in Brayflox being put into a Queer Bubble and still having the fairy to heal is really nice.

SCH isnt preempitive healing like most people think. That was what I thought at first but then realized the shield requires target be at HP loss to begin with - so its actually a more costly version of a mediocre heal (300). Frankly, its no better than a strong HoT, which WHM already has. I prefer a straight HP restore for more mana rather than this weird HP+Shield since HP doesnt expires after awhile like shields (so its does not become useless outside constant damage scenario).

Pet sounds wonderful at first, but then SE decides to put an annoying restriction on pet microing, so I cant tell my pet what to during casting time.

10% damage reduction is okaysh, although it costs me my aether resource.

So the only saving grace for the class is the ability to heal on the move with added burden of managin pet to avoid aoe.

tell me what I left out. At the moment the class has potential but it can never be on equal ground as WHM with these restrictions in place, let alone surpass it.

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Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

MRD, LNC, and ARC all have 5 cross-classable abilities. CNJ would have 6 (Aero, Cure, Protect, Raise, Stoneskin, Cleric Stance) but for some reason, SE implemented an arbitrary, unique restriction on Cleric Stance that prevents THM/ACN/SMN from using it (when they should be able to, based on the rules of the Armoury system).

And WHM has plenty of unique abilities. Medica? Stone? Regen? Divine Seal? Fluid Aura? Shroud of Saints? Presence of Mind? Benediction?

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Yeah, I have no idea why CS is not for SMR instead of SCH.

The problem with Scholar is that Succor sucks big time and embrace has too long a cooldown. Fix those two, and scholar will be fine.

When WHM gains access to regen he just dwarfs the scholar in aoe healing because with medica II not only are you healing for more than Succor, but you are placing regen on everybody as well, which is much better than a 150 potency heal with a 150 shield.

Adloquium could use a decrease in MP cost.

You're actually wrong about Succor and Adloquium. In about two seconds I was able to disprove the idea that it only works at a health deficit. Feel free to test it yourself. I cast Succor on myself @ full health, got Adloquium, and let a mob hit me. I had a shield for 300-400 and absorbed basically that. You can most definitely pre-shield everyone if you so choose.. which you should choose to do when you can.

You get a 90% dmg reduction ability that lasts for 15 seconds at the cost of 1 Aetherflow (and has a 20% chance to make your next succor cost no mana,) you get infinite mana essentially, and I assume there's one more thing that I don't have just yet.

You're -really- underselling how powerful faerie healing is in conjunction w/ regular sch heals.

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Originally Posted by Scerick

You can use "place" to move your pet onto the pad to dispell the Doom.

The only way I've found to get around the Aurum problem right now is to use Swiftcast to get her back out and keep her alive with Sustain + Adloquium as long as possible. Then you need to try and consider if she's more of a liability or a help at that point. It's just a crap situation in general.

But this is a separate issue from Scholars "not being competitive with WHM" and I agree it needs to be addressed by the dev team.

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I had no problems in AV, I just used Swiftcast+Summon only one time the entire fight when she had 5 stacks and was near death.

I do think the AI or pet control in general needs quite a bit of tweaking.

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Originally Posted by Miyuyu

You're actually wrong about Succor and Adloquium. In about two seconds I was able to disprove the idea that it only works at a health deficit. Feel free to test it yourself. I cast Succor on myself @ full health, got Adloquium, and let a mob hit me. I had a shield for 300-400 and absorbed basically that. You can most definitely pre-shield everyone if you so choose.. which you should choose to do when you can.

You get a 90% dmg reduction ability that lasts for 15 seconds at the cost of 1 Aetherflow (and has a 20% chance to make your next succor cost no mana,) you get infinite mana essentially, and I assume there's one more thing that I don't have just yet.

You're -really- underselling how powerful faerie healing is in conjunction w/ regular sch heals.

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um sacred soil is 10% damage reduction not 90%. 90% would be so OP HM Primals would be a breeze.

Ah, it's worded funny. I retract that statement. That said, it's still an easy 10% DR for very little cost. Still super powerful.

Succor should do increased healing on targets who already have a shield effect on them . Maybe aqualoium too though its less needed because sch's shortfall is aoe healing people from low life. This would improve 2 sch pts which are at a weakness compared to 2 whm. since sch barrier dont stack or get topped off(says no effect) where as 2 whm can stack medica2 and regen.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Cure 2 + regen heals near that amount, without the clunky pet.

There also the fact that barrier is wasted when you cast another heal.

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Last I checked a WHMs Regen cost MP, and Fairy heals don't. It also costs the WHM two GCDs to accomplish what you did in one.

Not sure what the complaint is. SCH has its shortfalls, but there's a lot to like. Adloquium's shield basically gives you a free GCD after every cast, and a crit Adloquium is the equivalent of a 1350 heal (with 900 of that being the shield). That leaves lots of GCD's to throw out Eye for an Eye, Virus, Sacred Soil, Stoneskin, etc.

For the faerie, make sure you put Embrace on your hotbar so you can spam it if you need to. Rouse + Embrace spam with Fey Illumination up is the equivalent of spamming Physick, and the occasional Adloquium for the shield gives a SCH a lot of GCD's to play around with.

Also, things that people are overlooking is the fact that Selene is actually pretty useful for support, especially on trash. The Haste buffs are the equivalent of around 100 spell/skill speed at level 50, and using her to manually heal can free you up to DPS.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

SCH isnt preempitive healing like most people think.

So the only saving grace for the class is the ability to heal on the move with added burden of managin pet to avoid aoe.

tell me what I left out. At the moment the class has potential but it can never be on equal ground as WHM with these restrictions in place, let alone surpass it.

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a WHM will wait for say a 1000 HP deficit to cast a cure II, a SCH can pop adloquium at 500 and be just as effective. You are proactively casting a heal for damage that hasn't been done yet. There are TONS of healing scenarios in this game where that is very useful, Garuda for instance.

You left out that SCH have higher single target throughput, significantly cheaper overall healing because a large portion of the overhead is pushed off on the Fairy, and much better mana regeneration mechanics. They also don't waste Crit heals on overhead the way a WHM does,

SCH are not better AoE healers, and don't have a sleep... That's pretty much it.

Honestly the main buffs I think Scholars need are just bug fixes/QoL changes to the pet.

1. You should be able to give commands to your fairy while your casting. Two main situations in which you need this. The first one being you're channeling a spell and a telegraph appears under your fairy and she takes a lot of damage, this wouldn't be a problem if you could just command it to move while you yourself are channeling a spell. And 2 you're healing the tank and your DPS gets hit by a spell you should be able to tell your fairy to heal that dps in that situation while you're already channeling.

2. Make steady stance actually stay on steady. You should be able to have complete control over what your fairy does. Because of this I feel like Scholar's AoE healing is kinda weak because my fairy decides to use Whispering Dawn on CD everytime when people have full health. Same with the magic def buff and skill/spell speed buffs.

no but pet ai needs to be reworked... i have healed several dungeons and the same thing everytime... me and the faerie take prority for healing... even if we only lost 5% health.. and numerous times the faerie wont heal the tank on her own til s/he is down to 60-75% health... all i have to say is why wait so long for party members when the faerie and i are healed at such a large percentage? I would like to set up the ai myself... Would work as 1) Heal all players in or out of party (yes out of party too since i have a feeling it wont touch raid members) below 100% health with the lowest in health as priority. It's only fair if the faerie does that to herself or me. Don't forget if I am casting I can't control my pet.

I think scholars are in a really good position. No mana problems for days. Just want to be able to move my pet while casting, that's really my only real gripe.

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Originally Posted by Pyros

I don't know, WHM might be easier, but if there's no trouble to clear single healer content with a SCH, does it matter?

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have you ever played an RPG with TRUE AI control? If not than you don't realize we are UNABLE to control how our faeries heal to an entirety, only a small fraction. It sucks when the faerie and scholar get priority for faerie heals when the party has less health than you. Take games like Star Ocean or any "Tales" game, all the AI can be controlled according to the players desires/play style. When i can set heals the way i want... such as "Heal lowest % of health first" , "Heal all players in and/or out of party (i feel with current AI it won't touch raid members) below 100, 75, or 50% health" and even alter how they use non-healing abilites. "Use **** only when players are at 25, 50, 75% health or lower" the ACN will be perfect. Our heals are fine I agree but AI needs to be worked on

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Originally Posted by Miyuyu

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preemptive heals arent always better. they are situational. I find i heal so much better on my whm on most bosses than my scholar in the same instance yet on trash my scholar is better. only cause of the boost in aoe healing. i can't see it as viable as a whm for boss battles. especially tank healing. i dont like what they did to cure 3 or benediction but i won't cry about it, and say SCH is better. they are situational from what i have seen and i believe they will remain that way. Yes SCH does need change and to AI control.. having to waste an extra second or 2 before each heal for my faerie is a waste of time. I know i went off on a tangent but to comparesch to what you said if im popping shields you have to realize unless i crit they are not worth much. 150 health shield is easily burned through on large pull and boss battles. I'd rather just have a larger single and/or aoe heal than a shield thats easily burned through. once again highly situational.

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Originally Posted by Draemos

You left out that SCH have higher single target throughput, significantly cheaper overall healing because a large portion of the overhead is pushed off on the Fairy, and much better mana regeneration mechanics. They also don't waste Crit heals on overhead the way a WHM does,

SCH are not better AoE healers, and don't have a sleep... That's pretty much it.

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I have yet to see a scholar healing more then I do. It's usually a bit less in fact. I was under the impression that they had better aoe heals, but WHM's were better at pure healing prowess on single targets. Also, while having some healing pushed off to the fairy is a good thing, it can also be a bad thing due to pet AI/management. I would rather be in control of all aspects of my healing for example, to make decisions as needed. SCH does have better mana regeneration abilities, but I don't mind SoS. If I use regen effectively and cure, I never run out of mana anyways.

IMO, the only changes that needs to be made to SCH interms of healing is as below:-

1. Eos (healing fairy) heal over time aoe should be in a lesser time frame but heals the same amount. CD of the skill should be lesser and the area of effect should be wider.

2. Except the first healing spell (Embrace), the rest of the skills under fairy should be tuned to manual cast so that fairies don't waste it under stupid circumstances.

3. Succor should cost slightly lesser but the healing potency remains.

4. As for Leeches, since we are a DoT kinda class, i suggest that leeches will first remove one detrimental effect and then subsequent after 5 sec removes another. And while removes a detrimental effect, target is heal for a set of amount of hp.