Jump No Longer Necessary after Patch 1.17

It's the classic "ordelle's caves" example. Few small, irrelevant annoyances are used to justify the development of a core game feature like it is.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

After the patch went live last night and they announced that collision detection was adjusted I did some testing. I did this testing on both Miqo'te, Elezen, and Lalafell.

All characters of various heights now no longer have issues passing over or through terrain where there are slight deviations. IE A Root from a tree wont stop a player from running, instead they will automatically walk over it.


Most minor cliffs (Between knee high and shoulder high on Lalafell and Knee to lower thigh high on Elezen) can now be scaled or dropped from with ease. Only cliffs that would encompass the entire height of an Elezen are unsaleable in most situations. These would not be viable for jumping to clear anyway.

In effect most situations that would normally have been cleared by jumping now no longer act as obstacles to the player.

Yes there might be a few areas to tweak this still, But I did these tests in all three Town Zones without any difficulty in scaling "Jump-able Heights"

So in my opinion this is no longer a valid argument towards Jumping.

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Jump does not have anything to do with collision, it is a system that require as standard for mmo nowday, get over it and stop make thread about jump already

And even if it's only a few "small annoyances," that's not a reason not to do it. Plus it allows for future areas to be designed more with the features available in mind. One thing's for sure, I'm hoping there aren't going to be any one way passages created by putting a knee-high ramp in front of them ala east/west altepa desert or Yuhtunga Jungle or any of several other places in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

It's the classic "ordelle's caves" example. Few small, irrelevant annoyances are used to justify the development of a core game feature like it is.

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A few small irrelevant annoyances on the game world? It's a 2011 MMO and we're still glued to the ground, that's ridiculous. It makes absolutely no sense that we can't jump, it should have been in the game from the start.

Start thinking about the feature beyond just jumping for fun. There's a lot more they can do with it beyond just allowing us to jump over rocks and fences, although that's the main reason I'd like to see it added currently.

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And even if it's only a few "small annoyances," that's not a reason not to do it.

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"We could do something else that has a greater impact on the game as a whole"?

It is quite a good reason not to do it.

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It's a 2011 MMO and we're still glued to the ground, that's ridiculous.

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And if that's all you can think of, it's only an attitude problem at worst. It's 2011, and some excellent recent action games don't have jumping either. If it's not needed, it's not included. Period.

How about climbling? How about swimming? How about being able to do things that many MMOs offer creating a sense of being able to freely explore the world? This is why I keep my Age of Conan sub alive, so when I want to climb a roof top, a mountain or swim deep into a lake to find treasure, I can.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

"We could do something else that has a greater impact on the game as a whole"?

It is quite a good reason not to do it.



And if that's all you can think of, it's only an attitude problem at worst. It's 2011, and some excellent recent action games don't have jumping either. If it's not needed, it's not included. Period.

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Except this isn't other games. Jumping would fit excellently into 14 and the producer agrees. The feature is coming. Get over it. Why are you wasting so much time complaining about this? Just don't use it. There's plenty of people that will.

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The feature is coming. Get over it.

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What here implies that I'm not "over it":

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Jumping is still coming regardless. No stopping the wheels of advancement at this point. If you wanted to make a stand, you're too late.

I agree that jumping in this world is pretty meaningless. One can hope that they will change that a bit so the function won't be useless.

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You started it, not me. That's not a complaint either, simply a statement (with a wish) that you couldn't deny after all. Yes, we are getting jump. Yes, it'll be useless at least initially. Yes, I am over it and was responding to the OP.

Useless to some, a blessing to others.

I couldn't care if SE decided to put a jump option into the game. The fact that it is getting this kind of attention and spurring insults/arguements, is so utterly ridiculous and entertaining. Seriously, you all look like tools.

I did my own tests too and i confirmed it. No need for jump anymore.

I really don't see a reason for jump now with this patch.

jump is still necissary, or at least some equivalent.
i still get stopped by small rocks and invisible creases all over the place, i asked my friend what they changed he said he only noticed cliff heights can now be used.
i checked myself and sure enough you can go up and down larger areas and most roots, however the lack of animation looks horrible and un-natural. what they did with 1.17 was a start but it by no means solves the terrain problem and they know that, thank god they are working on it even further and are still thinking of how to add jump.

oh and one more thing, our characters can take fire spells and swords to the face and live, but jumping down a cliff twice your height is un-natural/un-realistic? i just came across another cliff half my height that i cant run up and i took a screen shot if anyones interested.

This seems more like a Temp fix to me. something that is easier added than jump. We still cant 'Fall' off a cliff, so maybe later we can 'Jump' off of them instead.

Yeah they're still all over where I was running around in La Noscea earlier today. The ability to jump over stuff when you get caught by ledges like that is going to be great. Saves a lot of time when you don't have to run all the way back around a ledge because you can't fall off or walk up a small rock.

I was very pleased with this. I never thought jump was necessary in the first place, and now it's even less necessary.
It's annoying to see people bouncing around in towns and things anyways. Looks so childish. I don't wanna play a cartoon game, I wanna play Final Fantasy. ^-^ lol

:D Let's have a universe where jumping doesn't exist !


But in all seriousness..

Not being able to jump can limit the feel of control you have over your character.

>_<

Nabirl :| I don't know what to say.

People 'bouncing' around towns?

What are you talking about? ( / = n = )/ じ〜

Jumping isn't limited to 'cartoon games'.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I never seen any hopper in any MMO. why ppl afraid of them while they're not exist?

every game I played they're free jump and no one jumping around the town for no reason

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Unfortunately every time I look at WoW (my ex plays..) all I see is people going "BOING!!! BOING!!! BOING!!! BOING!!!BOING!!!BOING!!!BOING!!!BOING!!!BOING!!!BOING!!!BOING!!!BOING!!!" as if jumping is the only way to travel.
If given the option to, people WILL do this. May as well re-name the game to "Froggy-Fantasy 14," if they add this.

>.> If that happened to FFXIV that would kill the feel of the world and role-play, and my will to play. o.o;

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

I was very pleased with this. I never thought jump was necessary in the first place, and now it's even less necessary.
It's annoying to see people bouncing around in towns and things anyways. Looks so childish. I don't wanna play a cartoon game, I wanna play Final Fantasy. ^-^ lol

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No one said the jumping had to be cartoony. WoW jumping is one that servers no purpose in reaching higher areas or getting over obstacles. In FFXIV, We are hoping for a jump function that allows us to get over obstacles, not just to jump around and look stupid and annoying.

This is the only jump we need

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

After the patch went live last night and they announced that collision detection was adjusted I did some testing. I did this testing on both Miqo'te, Elezen, and Lalafell.

All characters of various heights now no longer have issues passing over or through terrain where there are slight deviations. IE A Root from a tree wont stop a player from running, instead they will automatically walk over it.


Most minor cliffs (Between knee high and shoulder high on Lalafell and Knee to lower thigh high on Elezen) can now be scaled or dropped from with ease. Only cliffs that would encompass the entire height of an Elezen are unsaleable in most situations. These would not be viable for jumping to clear anyway.

In effect most situations that would normally have been cleared by jumping now no longer act as obstacles to the player.

Yes there might be a few areas to tweak this still, But I did these tests in all three Town Zones without any difficulty in scaling "Jump-able Heights"

So in my opinion this is no longer a valid argument towards Jumping.

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You can't bridge gaps with collision detection.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

This is the only jump we need

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Haha. Lets Disadea/Advent Children this game up! Yes, Please.

I dont particularly think it was ever NEEDED. But honestly, who cares if it is needed or not. I want it. A lot of other people want it. The casuals want it. So I still think it will be implemented in one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Reika

WoW jumping is one that servers no purpose in reaching higher areas or getting over obstacles. In FFXIV, We are hoping for a jump function that allows us to get over obstacles, not just to jump around and look stupid and annoying.

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Jumping may not be used in the context of exploration (climbing would make more sense than jumping), but it was still pretty necessary for Thaddius. In PvP it is used to juke spells (tricking someone to use their interrupt without locking you out of your spells). Is also useful in certain parts of the plague wing in naxxrammas, not to mention part of the raid mechanics for Hodir and whatshername from Nexus.

Secondly, annoying to whom? I've seen my share of night elves jump in place and as silly as they do look, there was no vein sticking out of my forehead in annoyance. I still don't see where the hate is coming from, though I can only hope you were also annoyed and hating on the fact that you had to kneel to Odin during Zantetsuken in Einherjar, because that was equally as "stupid" and "annoying" as jumping.

you know whats funny. people who do not want jump for the reason of spam jumping don't know what they are talking about. I played a few games with jump feature and never really say a spam jumper.
WoW, Aion, Free realm, Perfect world international. Personally I like PWI and their jump. They did make a truely 3d realm. One of the newbie quests involes using jump to scale up to reach a treasure chest.

Both jumpers and anti jumpers are against spam jumping, so it will not be an issue. And even if there is a rare chance you do see a spam jumper. Ignore it. You guys should be adult enough to not let 1 player ruin your day.

Jump would still be nice just because, honestly, why not? It's a quality of life improvement that has little to no impact on really anything other than the occassional stuck up person that you can never satisfy.

That said, I still think the whole thing is moot until they finish the higher priority things first. Quality of life changes should come after content and fundamental systems redesigns.

just want to add i'm neither for or against jumping.
I would like to jump, swing, scale mountauns though. I'm a sucker for ultimate role play.
Plus I know jump can add content PWI is prerty much proff of that. As is aion.

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Originally Posted by Ava

That said, I still think the whole thing is moot until they finish the higher priority things first. Quality of life changes should come after content and fundamental systems redesigns.

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No thanks. I'd rather they lay the groundwork for a great game and add the content afterwards. Besides, they're pretty much almost done doing that. 1.18 should be the first battle system changes/maybe some dungeons. But yeah, I'll be surprised if the jump feature isn't included in patch 1.17a.

What I find funny is that the majority of people who want jump either dont have a reason for it or want it for some cosmetic reason. There are very few legitimate reasons for jump. You can walk down ledges already, so you want a jump to do that exact same thing just so you get the illusion that you are "falling"? Pointless much? There aren't even many instances where jumping up a ledge would be useful. Seriously, if at this point you are having problems navigating the land, then I'm fairly certain the lack of a jump button isn't whats causing your problem. Turn off the game and just walk away.

Like others said, the game was NOT DESIGNED with a free jump in mind and will ultimately make the game buggier than hell since people are going to find ways to lodge themselves in areas that weren't meant to be accessed and glitch enemies and so on and so forth. To prevent this, EVERY area would need to be reworked or redone to prevent this sort of activity. Do you realize how much work that equates to just so you can "fall" down a cliff instead of walking or because you can't follow a simple path ? I don't even care about bunny hoppers (even though I've in fact been plagued by them in several MMOs) as much as the technical issues it WILL cause if implemented.

I did forget to mention that all I saw on Jump was "examination" of the feature, not implementation. And even so, it may only be an emote like they were saying. Don't get all high and mighty yet until you see it implemented

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

What I find funny is that the majority of people who want jump either dont have a reason for it or want it for some cosmetic reason. There are very few legitimate reasons for jump.

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There are also no legitimate reasons not to have jump. It's a quality of life improvement, there's no "reason" for wanting it, just as well there is no reason for not wanting it. It's just something that is nice to have, like fog lamps on your car. You don't need them, but they make life easier, so if you can have them, you should want them.

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Originally Posted by Reika

No one said the jumping had to be cartoony. WoW jumping is one that servers no purpose in reaching higher areas or getting over obstacles. In FFXIV, We are hoping for a jump function that allows us to get over obstacles, not just to jump around and look stupid and annoying.

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Actually.... there were places hidden in the game, that even x-play coved that jump allowed acess too.

jay you never played WoW... or don't know what your talking about..
they can make this world jump friendly and last summer x-play did cover a segment on hidden areas of WoW that jump and other tools allowed access to. This is also what Elder scrolls does all the time, and even in risen. SE can add hidden places jump allows access to and it can serve to hid NMs and such.

WoW none of you ever truely played WoW and explored.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

You can't bridge gaps with collision detection.

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win!!! people who do not want jump have no reason for it and can not see the future... what about a place where you can .... Idk jump over cliffs to the next area?

People have stupid reasons for not wanting jump it DOES NOT effect your game in the least... remember you all bitching about quest flags.. notice when it was added no one said anything? because IT DOES NOT EFFECT YOUR GAMEPLAY IN ANYWAY.

You people are bitching about JUMP? think about that for a second? JUMP!!!!! who the hell cares if they add it or not but if they do IT WILL NOT KILL YOU AT ALL!!! in fact it could be the start of something cool mab??......

FF11 players are the bitchest bunch of people ever seen i wish i hated ff games after reading stupid threads like this and the posts in them so we would not have anything in common..... You people all bitch for a change and when it comes you bitch even more.....

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

jay you never played WoW... or don't know what your talking about..
they can make this world jump friendly and last summer x-play did cover a segment on hidden areas of WoW that jump and other tools allowed access to. This is also what Elder scrolls does all the time, and even in risen. SE can add hidden places jump allows access to and it can serve to hid NMs and such.

WoW none of you ever truely played WoW and explored.

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great post and thats what im saying they can add areas that you can only find with jump. FF11 players are all little boys.

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Originally Posted by Ava

There are also no legitimate reasons not to have jump. It's a quality of life improvement, there's no "reason" for wanting it, just as well there is no reason for not wanting it. It's just something that is nice to have, like fog lamps on your car. You don't need them, but they make life easier, so if you can have them, you should want them.

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Reason for not wanting it:

The main reason to use it has been addressed in this patch (scaling/descending certain small ledges and not getting stuck in shrubbery) so it's not fully necessary in this regard
If it's implemented you can't really explore anything new, so this is the "cosmetic" reason people are referring to since no zones are designed where jump will allow you to explore other sections you previously couldn't and making new zones to utilize new features that work universally makes no sense, since even XI's new zones didn't distract heavily from the vanilla or zilart expansion design. New features like pressure plates, yeah, but not radically different design it's like a totally different game.

The excuse of not wanting bunny hopping is seriously getting old. It is too easy to implement a system to not let jumping get abused like that for it to be a factor. It has been stated a million times a simple stamina tied to it won't let people abuse it. And even if it didn't have stamina tied to it, it wouldn't be nearly as big a deal as some exaggerate it to be.

The excuse of "Its not needed" is only half plausible. It may not currently be needed because nothing is currently designed with it mind, but that doesn't mean future content or zones can't be. Zones that are designed with jumping in mind are much more enjoyable to explore. Needing to jump to reach higher spots and get past obstacles or ledges. Taking fall damage and dying if you miss judge or time a jump, or if you don't die getting a movement slowing debuff. Being glued to ground sucks and makes the game feel more restricting.

It can also have effects in combat. Timing jumps to dodge certain abilities would be cool, just adds another dimension to combat. Jumping can add much more depth to the game than it can take away if it content and zones are designed with it in mind. Hopefully SE doesn't let the very selfish loud minority sway them to think otherwise. These forums are a great place for SE to collect feedback but hopefully they realize it doesn't necessarily represent the whole population, or potential population. Sometimes I think this game wouldn't survive its own fan boys if SE takes everything they read here to heart. Jumping is standard in MMOs now, and it should be in FF14.

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Originally Posted by DNO

great post and thats what im saying they can add areas that you can only find with jump. FF11 players are all little boys.

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i am a ff11 player, i just like fully exploring the word. Much like in elder scroll. Which i'm about to play oblivion in a bit.
Can't wait for skyrim. ^^
My fav part I can be an archer JUMP ON ROCKS and sniper a mob w/o dieing... :P kidding as I said i'm not for or against jump

I just see it as away to add content. which this game lacks.

And I dislike ppl that people want such limited content, just because they hate another mmo. And make up sob stories about the mythical spam jumpers that were infact just pink elephants... and not even duriing brewfest.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Reason for not wanting it:

The main reason to use it has been addressed in this patch (scaling/descending certain small ledges and not getting stuck in shrubbery) so it's not fully necessary in this regard
If it's implemented you can't really explore anything new, so this is the "cosmetic" reason people are referring to since no zones are designed where jump will allow you to explore other sections you previously couldn't and making new zones to utilize new features that work universally makes no sense, since even XI's new zones didn't distract heavily from the vanilla or zilart expansion design. New features like pressure plates, yeah, but not radically different design it's like a totally different game.

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and you know the game realm can get remade to allow jumping. >.> they plan on remaking a few areas anyway cuz of the "cope and pasting"

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Actually.... there were places hidden in the game, that even x-play coved that jump allowed acess too.

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If you mean those glitch areas that had no importance, yea i can agree to that lol.