How valuable is the hardcore opinion?

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Originally Posted by Mack

Meh, considering FFXI is as hardcore as they come in every aspect of the game and considering that about 500K FFXI players could potentially make the switch to FFXIV or play it alongside FFXI I'd say its a little more valuable than vlaueless and a little less flawed than your opinion. I'd say both hardcore and casual opinions are necessary to make this game a success but no one is happy no matter what you give them...doesn't matter, this game is shaping up nicely now and it'll appease to a large portion of the fanbase by the end and hopefully everyone will have something to do.

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ffxi no longer has a 500K playerbase. the game is going in it second server merge.

Guys please stop flashing the ffxi has a 500K playerbase, that is no longer the case anymore and not even all of those ppl were / are hardcore.
pheonix, asura, lakshmi, diablos are looking at around 700-1700 ish playerbase in the course of a checking 20 hours for 7 days.
I wish i was using random numbers.

I just want to point out as this thread has seen a lot of discussion about hardcore players getting content vs casual players getting content - discussion is moot. The developers will always seek to reward everyone. If people obsessively play the game for 10 hours a day they should be rewarded for that, especially if it's no fun to begin with. That's just common courtesy.

My original post was about a certain group that wanted to turn this game into a masochistic ordeal but got ruled out by majority opinion and are now using this concept of "hardcore" to try to turn FFXIV into a masochistic ordeal. I just want to ask this group the question, what would the 600,000 people that outnumber you have to say about a masochistic ordeal? I'm just saying, please think for a moment about some broader issues than what you want out of your videogame life.

Please post some threads asking for some non-masochistic game content that you would enjoy since you play the game so much. Why not be constructive. If you think these masochistic ideas are going to make it into the game you're wrong, you're just going to leave eventually completely fed up. The game would not succeed financially, and even if it did scrape by like FFXI why would you want that? I think the sense of adventure is so great - I'd like to see other people share in it. More than 600,000.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

With chain of events , similar to relics, salvage , nyzul , znms etc etc etc.
I doubt a " casual" (i hate to use this terms) can do a relic by example, in a short time. While the others who play more can get there and show off.If casuals still complain the game is unfair becouse they cant have the ultimate mega duper equipement only a hand full of people can get per server, then they are just being hypocrites.

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Yep i think these pain killers are to strong. zkieve is making sense.

i don't mind rewards that are worth it, to be clear THAT ARE WORTH IT, take a while to get. As long as I can have fun doing that content I'm happy. Like black belt in ffxi. I don't care how long it is to get that item That is a good item. And well worth the trouble, only thing is the content to get the items is very limiting. no one i knew liked doing the ksnm runs, and kings were mainly up during japanese time.

I did like doing sky though, just wish more ppl did it during the day vs my bed time. Nearly passing out or being to sleepy to remember what you did sucks. XD

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

ffxi no longer has a 500K playerbase. the game is going in it second server merge.

Guys please stop flashing the ffxi has a 500K playerbase, that is no longer the case anymore and not even all of those ppl were / are hardcore.
pheonix, asura, lakshmi, diablos are looking at around 700-1700 ish playerbase in the course of a checking 20 hours for 7 days.
I wish i was using random numbers.

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Not my point - my point being at one point FFXI had 500K players, this means that's a potential number that might play FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Not my point - my point being at one point FFXI had 500K players, this means that's a potential number that might play FFXIV.

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Tho SE doesnt want to take the FFXI players into FFXIV, thats why this game is different. They would lose money if they lost FFXI players to this game. (More than they already have by making this game F2P for so long)

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Originally Posted by Reika

Tho SE doesnt want to take the FFXI players into FFXIV, thats why this game is different. They would lose money if they lost FFXI players to this game. (More than they already have by making this game F2P for so long)

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SE wanted a larger fanbase for this game, they don't care about running both FFXI and FFXIV side by side, they expected a much larger turn up for FFXIV and that turn up is in large part due to FFXI players who were playing the game long ago and have long quit or those who are looking for something new as is to be expected of a ten year old game. They even said they made the races the same so its an easier transition for FFXI or ex-XI players.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Not my point - my point being at one point FFXI had 500K players, this means that's a potential number that might play FFXIV.

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Not only that Reika - but since the game couldn't maintain 500k subscribers, what does that tell you? Everybody I've ever heard of quit that game at the Dunes. Come on, other MMOs have gone on strong and built up subscribers, not FFXI. 500k was early on, like the 2nd or 3rd year of release and it's been downhill ever since WoW came out and actually took out inconveniences to players patch by patch.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Not my point - my point being at one point FFXI had 500K players, this means that's a potential number that might play FFXIV.

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it was also a small number that never grew. I much rather have MORE then 500K subs. Means there will be more ppl making partoes and doing content. Meaning i wil have a better chance to do that content.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Not only that Reika - but since the game couldn't maintain 500k subscribers, what does that tell you? Everybody I've ever heard of quit that game at the Dunes. Come on, other MMOs have gone on strong and built up subscribers, not FFXI. 500k was early on, like the 2nd or 3rd year of release and it's been downhill ever since WoW came out and actually took out inconveniences to players patch by patch.

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FFXI had 500k subs up until the level cap increase. I don't know where you're making your numbers up from. Do you honestly think for a second people who stay when everything they worked for for 8 years became worthless? Do you have at least half a brain?

Obviously not if you couldn't even take valkrum dunes. You don't even have a clue what you're talking about.

Why do you think the basic structure in XIV correlates exactly to XI? Think.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Not only that Reika - but since the game couldn't maintain 500k subscribers, what does that tell you? Everybody I've ever heard of quit that game at the Dunes. Come on, other MMOs have gone on strong and built up subscribers, not FFXI. 500k was early on, like the 2nd or 3rd year of release and it's been downhill ever since WoW came out and actually took out inconveniences to players patch by patch.

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this is true having played for from ps2 on amd after year 1 for 12-20 hrs a day. I saw this happen.

Why are they still making updates for a game they dont care ends up shutting down by losing all its players to FFXIV then? that doesn't make any sense. They have a 12 month update board for FFXI ya know. I doubt they want all their players to stop and play FFXIV if they are still updating FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Visch

FFXI had 500k subs up until the level cap increase. I don't know where you're making your numbers up from. Do you honestly think for a second people who stay when everything they worked for for 8 years became worthless? Do you have at least half a brain?

Obviously not if you couldn't even take valkrum dunes. You don't even have a clue what you're talking about.

Why do you think the basic structure in XIV correlates exactly to XI? Think.

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umm not true........the first merger was a year before the cap increase.

and subs where going before that. if you play the game as long as I did you woulda seen it.
so infact you don't know what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

it was also a small number that never grew. I much rather have MORE then 500K subs. Means there will be more ppl making partoes and doing content. Meaning i wil have a better chance to do that content.

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I have no idea what you're saying...how does doing content and partying up have anything to do with whether the fan base comes in part from FFXI or completely from somewhere else?

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They have a 12 month update board for FFXI ya know

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Do you know and how? doesn't matter anyway - of course they're not going to give their FFXI fanbase the middle finger and stop updating the game especially that they're still profiting off it but the long term plan is, I'm assuming, that FFXIV will outlive FFXI so therefore this game will have to take care of the FFXI subs sooner or later - make sense? no? can't help you out then.

FFXI had 2mil players at some point if i remember right i think it was around 2006-2008 when they update the low level areas and added more mobs. But it die down later but still the matter is that FFXI would later add too FFXIV subs so if they don't add any hardcore stuff for the FFXI players who still into hardcore stuff they wont leave FFXI and go onto FFXIV. Anyways ffxi is dieing i don't know how long they can make ps2 update even if they shut down the ps2 update a lot would leave because some of them just don't like playing ffxi on pc.

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Originally Posted by Griss

Yep i think these pain killers are to strong. zkieve is making sense.

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lol let me have what you are having !.
on topic(ill dig even thought i really hate the casual vs hardcore nonsense).
Hardcore players and events exists so casuals have something to look forward to . Theres nothing else to it.If you have nothing to look forward to then you will stop playing.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

FFXI had 2mil players at some point if i remember right i think it was around 2006-2008 when they update the low level areas and added more mobs. But it die down later but still the matter is that FFXI would later add too FFXIV subs so if they don't add any hardcore stuff for the FFXI players who still into hardcore stuff they wont leave FFXI and go onto FFXIV. Anyways ffxi is dieing i don't know how long they can make ps2 update even if they shut down the ps2 update a lot would leave because some of them just don't like playing ffxi on pc.

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FFXI has never NEVER had 2mil paying customers, they have had 2million characters at one point, when you compare that to other MMO's gloating about 2mil characters is silly really lol

What we have here is the beginning stages of a sociological stigmatization and creation of the "norm".

In layman's terms a social stigma is nothing more than disapproval of what another deems normal. Just by originally stating what a social stigma is we can begin to see a problem in the Final Fantasy XIV community. Human beings have this propensity to label themselves and everyone around them. Charles Cooley's Human Nature and the Social Order (1902) states through his article explaining his "looking glass theory" that "People imagine the view of themselves through the eyes of others in their social circles and form judgments of themselves based on these imaginary observations". People define themselves according to society's perception of them thus creating a "self". When you combine this with George Mead's theory's on Labeling, which states "The self is the product of the mind's perception of social symbols and interactions" we can see just why these stigmas and labels develop. But to begin with, by looking out at society which we do to create our own perceptions of our selves, how can we come to our own conclusions of who we really are? Easy Society has all ready set normalcies for us.

Now lets look at Final Fantasy XIV as if it was part of the same social structure that makes up Social stigmas and labeling. We as a gaming community that has no real outlaying way to describe what is normal for a MMORPG. When we create a character in game we look at these labels and stigmas that the gaming society has created and we attempt to look at ourselves through other players eyes. It is at this vary point we decide what kind of player we want to be. Once we have decided which label we fall under either Hardcore or Casual we then develop a sense of membership to that group. Once you have attached your self to a label you have set yourself to what that group deems normal.

And then there you have it You have now labeled yourself and created a social stigma, which leads to thee "us and them" way of thinking. The linking of negative attributes to differentiated groups of individuals facilitates a sense of differentiation between the "us" and "them". This sense that the individuals of the labeled group are fundamentally different causes stereotyping to take place with little to no hesitation. The "us" and "them" component of the stigmatization process implies that the so called labeled group is less of a person/gamer, and at the extreme not a persona at all (this leads to the "noob", "kill your self", "uninstall the game" comments. It is at this extreme that the most horrific events occur in these forums and the game in general.

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Originally Posted by Ostia

FFXI has never NEVER had 2mil paying customers, they have had 2million characters at one point, when you compare that to other MMO's gloating about 2mil characters is silly really lol

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They post this around that time that they had 2mil players if they also adding the mules then my bad if not then i'm right.

This is Final Fantasy, there is gonna be Hardcore Endgame stuff no matter what, it maybe delayed but its coming.

It seems like some people don't understand what is hardcore really is(we r not elitist who ONLY wont hardcore stuff).. its not like these players don't want Casuals to not get the event and reward from it, actually they don't care if you want to do it or not.

These hardcore players just want stuff that are worth their time, like fighting monster that doesn't die in 5 mins, or does not only require pressing 1,1,1. hardcore players have lot of time to spend in game, they rather do challenging stuff then these easy stuff which is probably like 5% of their time.

There is no hardcore players running around saying casual should not do this or should not get this item. They don't care whether you want to do hardcore and get the reward or not.

i consider myself hardcore, well for few more months anyway before time ingame gets cuts by half. I was happy about the last patch because it had contents but disappointed that these "NMs" are just normal mob with high HP, takes 3x longer to kill.

For the people that call them Casuals, why do you NOT want hardcore events? are you satisfied by killing a monster in 5 mins and getting item? did you feel like you accomplished a difficult task? don't think you can handle it? In the end all you going to say is that you have less time to play, so lets mess up for the people who has lot of time by posting in these forums to ban hardcore endgame content.

whats wrong with having both? a hardcore player wont enjoy casual stuff?(i think i killed almost all NMs, had fun soloing it - pretty sure players with less time may have done them all, are you going to repeat it again tomorrow, the week after? of course you wont because its 5 min to kill 5 min to spawn with fairly decent drop rate an thats the end of that patch) and a casual payer wont never try a hardcore stuff?

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Originally Posted by Synapse

This is Final Fantasy, there is gonna be Hardcore Endgame stuff no matter what, it maybe delayed but its coming.

It seems like some people don't understand what is hardcore really is(we r not elitist who ONLY wont hardcore stuff).. its not like these players don't want Casuals to not get the event and reward from it, actually they don't care if you want to do it or not.

These hardcore players just want stuff that are worth their time, like fighting monster that doesn't die in 5 mins, or does not only require pressing 1,1,1. hardcore players have lot of time to spend in game, they rather do challenging stuff then these easy stuff which is probably like 5% of their time.

There is no hardcore players running around saying casual should not do this or should not get this item. They don't care whether you want to do hardcore and get the reward or not.

i consider myself hardcore, well for few more months anyway before time ingame gets cuts by half. I was happy about the last patch because it had contents but disappointed that these "NMs" are just normal mob with high HP, takes 3x longer to kill.

For the people that call them Casuals, why do you NOT want hardcore events? are you satisfied by killing a monster in 5 mins and getting item? did you feel like you accomplished a difficult task? don't think you can handle it? In the end all you going to say is that you have less time to play, so lets mess up for the people who has lot of time by posting in these forums to ban hardcore endgame content.

whats wrong with having both? a hardcore player wont enjoy casual stuff?(i think i killed almost all NMs, had fun soloing it - pretty sure players with less time may have done them all, are you going to repeat it again tomorrow, the week after? of course you wont because its 5 min to kill 5 min to spawn with fairly decent drop rate an thats the end of that patch) and a casual payer wont never try a hardcore stuff?

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i agree with you, They can add HNM with long pop times then add bcnm events for Casuals and guess what i do both because there both fun and casual can just do bcnm version. One day they have time they can do it with there linkshell and go wow that was a awesome fight.

FFXI had both casual and hardcore it just that BCNM drop rate was set too low and that why it was not very casual and the idea of getting beastman seals took to long to get a set just to do one for a item.

Casual and hardcore can be in this game i hope yoshi-p does something so hardcore have something to do. i don't want to waste my time killing a nm that does in 10-15mins because i still have 8-10+hours of noting to do. I log in do my leves and log out noting else to do for 8hours +.

Waiting 3-12 hours for a nm was a pain in the ass but i enjoy it very much. i had to sit there and wait for it to pop and kill PH me and my gf would do this for hours to get. VE,LL i even got my Monk the hands and feet which only took me hands 6/1 and feet 1/2 if you don't want to waste your time you could farm the gil and buy it on the AH or get them yourself by doing the bcnm for it.

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i agree with you, They can add HNM with long pop times then add bcnm events for Casuals and guess what i do both because there both fun and casual can just do bcnm version. One day they have time they can do it with there linkshell and go wow that was a awesome fight.

FFXI had both casual and hardcore it just that BCNM drop rate was set too low and that why it was not very casual and the idea of getting beastman seals took to long to get a set just to do one for a item.

Casual and hardcore can be in this game i hope yoshi-p does something so hardcore have something to do. i don't want to waste my time killing a nm that does in 10-15mins because i still have 8-10+hours of noting to do. I log in do my leves and log out noting else to do for 8hours +.

Waiting 3-12 hours for a nm was a pain in the ass but i enjoy it very much. i had to sit there and wait for it to pop and kill PH me and my gf would do this for hours to get. VE,LL i even got my Monk the hands and feet which only took me hands 6/1 and feet 1/2 if you don't want to waste your time you could farm the gil and buy it on the AH or get them yourself by doing the bcnm for it.

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You really need to stop using FFXI as a reference, FFXI is a totally casual MMO now. All the things you care to mention from FFXI like bcnm, hnm, salvage, limbus etc are no longer relevent, so you either need to find some other MMO to talk about or keep in mind Square saw FFXI's design as wrong in the current time and totally changed it.

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Originally Posted by rainfish

You really need to stop using FFXI as a reference, FFXI is a totally casual MMO now. All the things you care to mention from FFXI like bcnm, hnm, salvage, limbus etc are no longer relevent, so you either need to find some other MMO to talk about or keep in mind Square saw FFXI's design as wrong in the current time and totally changed it.

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I'm sorry what should i use as a reference? AION,WOW,RIFT? games that have noting to do with FFXIV? the only thing that is close to FFXIV is FFXI. I use it as a reference because other game don't fit with this type of mmo.

And am not talking about ffxi now they could easy make BCNM type system for casual and HNM for hardcore players they away two ways of doing this the best way to make players understand what i mean it to reference FFXI.

If this game going to be 100% casual then w/e i guess i'll play Offline games, if this going to be only hardcore game then i guess it wont make enough money. If they can set the bar for 50% / 50% then this could work out.

They could have easy made the 20 NM into 10 Casual and 10 Hardcore that give about the same item but the hardcore is little better by just a small % if casual think that unfair then i'm sorry to bad i guess. Even if it have just one more str,dex or w/e it good enough for hardcore players to go for it.

Seem casual players can't meet in the middle -.- they may be the most % players out there but you not alone others like online game to be more hard.

why musr casuals get seperate content while hardcore get to do both?

why must we use the stupid lables? conjoined content yes, segragated(sp) no.

and mack if you read, ffxi had a small player base on several servers so when i was high enough for endgame no end game LS had room. And not many people repeated missions to help others. with high player base that shouldn't happen.

SE wants the game to have more then 500K players so it tried beng different, but sad thing is it was never coved at any convention. well on tv.
So SE will is going for more players. As for the title, no ones opinion is any less needed. SE wants everyones opinion. But they also need the players to not be so picky, if they are only fixing things nothing will get added. So relax and learn to enjoy things. Not just try it once and hate it.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

I'm sorry what should i use as a reference? AION,WOW,RIFT? games that have noting to do with FFXIV? the only thing that is close to FFXIV is FFXI. I use it as a reference because other game don't fit with this type of mmo.

And am not talking about ffxi now they could easy make BCNM type system for casual and HNM for hardcore players they away two ways of doing this the best way to make players understand what i mean it to reference FFXI.

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you know that would mean hardcore gets 2 ways to get items where casuals get 1 way. thays why your ideas are not fair. And should stop seperating the player base.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

you know that would mean hardcore gets 2 ways to get items where casuals get 1 way. thays why your ideas are not fair. And should stop seperating the player base.

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I'm sorry do you even play FFXIV? becuase it seem a lot of players here saying you don't I'm sorry it's pretty Fair we have more time so we get to do both if we feel like it. Casual can do both also casual players are not casual every day of there life there time they get few days of and can enjoy the hardcore base of the game. It's not about being unfair it the point that causal players are not the only type of players.

There no way you can make something casual and hardcore at the sametime putting in two system would allow this to happen if a casual players get more time they can do the hardcore version and if a Hardcore players get to busy they can do the casual more.

There not stupid lables i'm just using it so other understand what i mean by it.

I think it's dumb walking around town and seeing everyone with the same rare,ex gear that took less then 30min to get. They have to be some item that hard to get every game have this matter if it casual or hardcore.

oh and why would i even get both items? if the other version is better -.-

there is more then just one player base in MMO

Hardcore and casual is just two of the many so am not seperating the player base it been like that for a long long time. Do i even play with the jp player base? ya onces in a blue moon.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

I'm sorry do you even play FFXIV? becuase it seem a lot of players here saying you don't I'm sorry it's pretty Fair we have more time so we get to do both if we feel like it. Casual can do both also casual players are not casual every day of there life there time they get few days of and can enjoy the hardcore base of the game. It's not about being unfair it the point that causal players are not the only type of players.

There no way you can make something casual and hardcore at the sametime putting in two system would allow this to happen if a casual players get more time they can do the hardcore version and if a Hardcore players get to busy they can do the casual more.

There not stupid lables i'm just using it so other understand what i mean by it.

I think it's dumb walking around town and seeing everyone with the same rare,ex gear that took less then 30min to get. They have to be some item that hard to get every game have this matter if it casual or hardcore.

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Using labels as a way to define something is not inherently bad, its the stereo types that are attached.

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Originally Posted by Bled

Using labels as a way to define something is not inherently bad, its the stereo types that are attached.

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am using the labels to only define something not to say that Hardcore are better then casual. i'm just saying if ffxiv had both causal and hardcore events then i as a hardcore gamer can do casual when i get busy and when a causal person is no longer busy they can do the hardcore events.

but just making it all casual is not a good idea.

I hope what yoshi said about 4player base dungeons and 8 player dungeons is true that would fix the issue. He even say they be gear that you would have to do a chain of quest to get like FFXI so this type of event i could enjoy. i just hope the dungeons that are 8 players, players would do them and not only do the casual version.

I wait too ps3 release or when we need to start paying to see how this game turn out for now the updates we getting are just fix and the NM added i bet was just something for us to do too they fix everything.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

am using the labels to only define something not to say that Hardcore are better then casual. i'm just saying if ffxiv had both causal and hardcore events then i as a hardcore gamer can do casual when i get busy and when a causal person is no longer busy they can do the hardcore events.

but just making it all casual is not a good idea.

I hope what yoshi said about 4player base dungeons and 8 player dungeons is true that would fix the issue. He even say they be gear that you would have to do a chain of quest to get like FFXI so this type of event i could enjoy. i just hope the dungeons that are 8 players, players would do them and not only do the casual version.

I wait too ps3 release or when we need to start paying to see how this game turn out for now the updates we getting are just fix and the NM added i bet was just something for us to do too they fix everything.

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I sometimes wonder if the development of FFXIV is planned to go like FFXI. FFXI released in Japan before NA and was widely criticized, then through patching they fixed the basic foundation. With the release of FFXI in NA they created an expansion that fixed most problems and added all new content. I sometime wonder if this same progression is what is in store for FFXIV and the PS3 release.

you can have content that can be access by all. duration don't equal challenge as in a timeconsuming dungeon isn't a harder one.
you can increase the skill required by having time limits much like bcnm of say 10-30 min you had to comple a dungeon and kill the boss.

or similar to that. Why does content need to take so much time anyway? Thats one thing i didn't like about ffxi. I got my sleep sched skrwed up over dynamis and sky. runs to so much time I was passing out just as we hit the boss. Since most ppl set up runs late at night. I have tons of time to play. but having an endgame event from from 9pm-1am wasn't very good for me. I had fun regardless, but that also isn't healthy. Just no one did runs like that during the day but even then after a while I got a lil bored (ADD).

I hate to say but all WoW content is acessable and not very time consuming. including the hardmodes.As long as ppl use their skills it should be that long.

Is this saying make content easy no, it is me saying gimi hand outs, no

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Originally Posted by Bled

I sometimes wonder if the development of FFXIV is planned to go like FFXI. FFXI released in Japan before NA and was widely criticized, then through patching they fixed the basic foundation. With the release of FFXI in NA they created an expansion that fixed most problems and added all new content. I sometime wonder if this same progression is what is in store for FFXIV and the PS3 release.

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I though about that maybe the ps3 release would come out with a Expansion that would fix everything. Because sadly release the ps3 version how it is now with the same storyline and only rank 50 and pretty much just fix the game how it should have been for the PC release wont cut it.

Also a note to this FFXIV wont never have a lot of players even if they make stuff for casual and hardcore. If they don't put a lot of TV ads, Website ads and gamestop ads world wide if they don't do this then FFXIV going to have small player base like FFXI. A lot of FF fans don't even know what FFXI and FFXIV is :)

@Kilta_Firelotus

Are you joking? have you ever done a raid in wow? they can easy take up 3-6hours just like FFXI Endgame. Most ppl fall asleep and they end up leaving it. Hint the reason they added the way to save the raid and you can just warp the full party back in the next day. Even some dungeons in WoW take longer then 30mins -.-

Top of that to even do the PVP you have to wait for it to be up it can be 1min or 1+hour wait time even at hours that a lot of ppl playing.

So even wow casual players have to sit there for hours to wait for something to happen even some item to get are hard drop rate and can take hours to get. some rare pets and item took me at least 3+hours to get.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

I though about that maybe the ps3 release would come out with a Expansion that would fix everything. Because sadly release the ps3 version how it is now with the same storyline and only rank 50 and pretty much just fix the game how it should have been for the PC release wont cut it.

Also a note to this FFXIV wont never have a lot of players even if they make stuff for casual and hardcore. If they don't put a lot of TV ads, Website ads and gamestop ads world wide if they don't do this then FFXIV going to have small player base like FFXI. A lot of FF fans don't even know what FFXI and FFXIV is :)

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Most of my friends are hard core Final Fantasy (Traditional) fans, and do not even believe there exists a FFXI or FFXIV lol.

in truth why should duration or how long a player can play be a reason to break up the player base? All content should be accessable regardless as we are all players paying/paid the same money. Why should hardcore get content that a casual can join in on?
And saying content can be accessable by both isn't making all content casual. But all you guys want is conten that is challenging, right? creating a challenge is easy w/o the time consuming tacted on.

More importent its a game meant for fun. And we are all gamers. :3 No reason to seperate us by how long we play.

i never had that issue.. with pvp that is. Even still you don't need an event take up a ton of time. I just don;t wanna get left outa content is all really. :/
And i'm a player who is techi a "hardcore".

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

i never had that issue.. with pvp that is. Even still you don't need an event take up a ton of time. I just don;t wanna get left outa content is all really. :/
And i'm a player who is techi a "hardcore".

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If you want to participate in content all you need to do is meet the requirements which normally means a Rank or Level. I don't see that as restricting people from content, seeing as every game has prerequisites of some kind in order to participate in something.

You want to fight Ruby Weapon in Final Fantasy 7 well get to the end of the game... does that mean FF7 catered to Hardcore players... no it meant you had to play the damn game lol.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

in truth why should duration or how long a player can play be a reason to break up the player base? All content should be accessable regardless as we are all players paying/paid the same money. Why should hardcore get content that a casual can join in on?
And saying content can be accessable by both isn't making all content casual. But all you guys want is conten that is challenging, right? creating a challenge is easy w/o the time consuming tacted on.

More importent its a game meant for fun. And we are all gamers. :3 No reason to seperate us by how long we play.

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You can't make something challenging and casual if it too challenging then casual players can't even do them because it would take time. Even if you could make it challenging and it take 30min to do hardcore players would get bored of doing the same thing every 15mins because we get it done way faster because we have the top of the line gear and we do everything about the game so at the end it would be challenging for us only the causal players.

Anyways yoshi said in a interview there two system

4- man less Challenging less time planing easy set up to do
8- very challenging take longer to do and you need to plan out more team work.

All am saying that i hope he stay with that idea and at the end they would be Item that casual would take months to get. Even as a hardcore player i never got the weps from FFXI that cost 100+mil to get.

@Kilta_Firelotus how long to you have to play a mmo? do you even play FFXIV to start with? did you even get a class 30+? did you even play this game when it took hours to get a level because the sp was random?

You can do hardcore and casual events no one is stoping you but if you want to do the hardcore version it would take little more time and planing and setting up. i don't want to see something taking 6hours even wow have raids that take that long. So even if casual players can do raids in wow that take that much time i think you can do something ffxiv that take at least 3hours to do or less.

by all means am not saying that i want to see something taking anymore then 2hours even casual players can do that. so the 4 man party version can take 1 hour to do at best if you have better team it can take hours.

At the end matter what you do it going to take a lot of time if you have dumb players not doing it right.

So maybe you think i was hoping for something that take 5+hours to do no thanks i don't want that i want something that take a long time but not that crazy.

the NM added to ffxiv now where just mobs with high hp and 5mins repop could they not make it at least have there own attacks and hard to kill? and maybe a 1-3hours random repop time? it could pop right on the 1hour or not. That still casual i'm sorry but casual don't have 30min to play -.- if that all they have a day there better off playing offline games.

why could they not add stuff like serket? make it a 1-3 hours random repop and it's hard to kill but you still got 30min to kill her before she rage on you and you all die. :) that very casual and hardcore at the same time don't you think?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

"Its just as valuable as any other persons opinion"

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I agree 100% with you, I am tired of these flame baited useless topics that have no point but to bash other people. Seriously grow up OP. This is not WoW if you want drama and useless childish chatter this is not the game for that go find some other forums to spam up.

Hardcores lost the war for the leadership position in MMOs almost 5 years ago. This isn't even a debate any more. Even when they're grossly over-represented on forums they still are the vast minority. Again, if you look at the like responses to casual players fighting against hardcores on this forum, it's not even close. The casual players are liked. The hardcore players are not liked. The number of hardcore likes usually equals the number of hardcores fighting. The number of casual likes far exceeds the number of casuals fighting.

They're just testing the waters to see if they can make a comeback and take the genre again.

Their only role is merely one of association. Hardcore players tend to push for challenging content, and keep the level of challenge in the game more acceptable than if only casuals had a say. This is not to say that hardcores want things hard and casuals want them easy, just that as a group, there's an association there.

If we could get the casual players together who like challenging content that is convenient, there would be no role for hardcores and we could just dismiss them as irrelevant to the genre.

Challenging content that is convenient to play. That's the goal. The hardcores will say "design us content and design you content." As if they deserve higher-tier challenge and loot than anyone else. The hardcores need to learn that they'll not be getting content that's "theirs." Every aspect of the game belongs to the player who plays in 1-3 hour blocks of time. They paid for it.

By challenging we mean you have to think. Plan. Coordinate. Not you have to get 6 archers. Not you have to fight 10 shells and their pathetic juvenile drama for a shot at a shot at a drop. Not endless weedout after weedout simply because some idiot wants to feel like they're specia when NOTHING in this world can support that lie.

Shoot the idiot. The world becomes so much more bearable.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Hardcores lost the war for the leadership position in MMOs almost 5 years ago. This isn't even a debate any more. Even when they're grossly over-represented on forums they still are the vast minority. Again, if you look at the like responses to casual players fighting against hardcores on this forum, it's not even close. The casual players are liked. The hardcore players are not liked. The number of hardcore likes usually equals the number of hardcores fighting. The number of casual likes far exceeds the number of casuals fighting.

They're just testing the waters to see if they can make a comeback and take the genre again.

Their only role is merely one of association. Hardcore players tend to push for challenging content, and keep the level of challenge in the game more acceptable than if only casuals had a say. This is not to say that hardcores want things hard and casuals want them easy, just that as a group, there's an association there.

If we could get the casual players together who like challenging content that is convenient, there would be no role for hardcores and we could just dismiss them as irrelevant to the genre.

Challenging content that is convenient to play. That's the goal. The hardcores will say "design us content and design you content." As if they deserve higher-tier challenge and loot than anyone else. The hardcores need to learn that they'll not be getting content that's "theirs." Every aspect of the game belongs to the player who plays in 1-3 hour blocks of time. They paid for it.

By challenging we mean you have to think. Plan. Coordinate. Not you have to get 6 archers. Not you have to fight 10 shells and their pathetic juvenile drama for a shot at a shot at a drop. Not endless weedout after weedout simply because some idiot wants to feel like they're specia when NOTHING in this world can support that lie.

Shoot the idiot. The world becomes so much more bearable.

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I wont not mind if they make things challenging and it's casual but if its just all casual then there not point i can't stand logging in every day and doing the same leves i done 5000000 times there not even fun to do to start with. I don't want something that last 6hours also that be to much time wasting to get one item at best or none for that matter. But if all stuff are 30mins then what the point in doing them or adding it for that matter if there less then 30mins and drop rate is pretty good then onces i did them i have noting else to do. Then less and less players would do them and most casual players would even get the item not if they make it solo :(

i want something Challenging and it going to last at least more then 30mins. Like serket NM it hard to kill very challenging but you only have a set of 30mins to kill them. A party of 15 take it down pretty quick but 1-4 become even more Challenging :) make the repop time something like 2-5hours random time it still very casual and challenging.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Hardcores lost the war for the leadership position in MMOs almost 5 years ago. This isn't even a debate any more. Even when they're grossly over-represented on forums they still are the vast minority. Again, if you look at the like responses to casual players fighting against hardcores on this forum, it's not even close. The casual players are liked. The hardcore players are not liked. The number of hardcore likes usually equals the number of hardcores fighting. The number of casual likes far exceeds the number of casuals fighting.

They're just testing the waters to see if they can make a comeback and take the genre again.

Their only role is merely one of association. Hardcore players tend to push for challenging content, and keep the level of challenge in the game more acceptable than if only casuals had a say. This is not to say that hardcores want things hard and casuals want them easy, just that as a group, there's an association there.

If we could get the casual players together who like challenging content that is convenient, there would be no role for hardcores and we could just dismiss them as irrelevant to the genre.

Challenging content that is convenient to play. That's the goal. The hardcores will say "design us content and design you content." As if they deserve higher-tier challenge and loot than anyone else. The hardcores need to learn that they'll not be getting content that's "theirs." Every aspect of the game belongs to the player who plays in 1-3 hour blocks of time. They paid for it.

By challenging we mean you have to think. Plan. Coordinate. Not you have to get 6 archers. Not you have to fight 10 shells and their pathetic juvenile drama for a shot at a shot at a drop. Not endless weedout after weedout simply because some idiot wants to feel like they're specia when NOTHING in this world can support that lie.

Shoot the idiot. The world becomes so much more bearable.

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You suffer from extreme stereotype problems... and an extreme of anything is enough to dismiss. Don't get me wrong your opinion certainly has the right to be heard, but should not be listened too.