Summoner Info

I was really interested in summoner since I love the concept, but I always have concerns for pet classes in MMOs.

1. Pet survivability - do fight mechanics make my pet suddenly fall over dead?

2. Pet AI - are my pets dropping whatever they are doing to suddenly attack another group of monsters because the pet ai is brain dead? Are they getting stuck in the environment and become unable to attack because they are attempting to get behind a boss when they can't?

3. Pet micromanagement - a combination of the first two issues, in that in order to perform on the same level as the other dps jobs, an extra level of often clunky micromanagement for the pet is required because otherwise the pet would die, bug out, or pull unintended groups.

Hopefully they get it correct in this game!

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Originally Posted by itsExis

I can vouch for this as well. I had a run with a bad tank and switched to my lemon flavor and he held his.

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lmao at the lemon flavor! lol I love it and will have to use it -

Has anyone unlocked Summoner yet?

I'm 25k EXP away from 30, and I have THM and CNJ at 15, so I hope I'm set once maintenance completes.

At 30, I was able to do both the SCH and SMN quests as ACN, with only CNJ/THM above 15 for other jobs (Started today with CNJ 20, THM 20, ACN 20, PUG 12, ARC 4).

SCH pulls abilities from THM and CNJ.

SMN pulls abilities from THM and ARC. (they DO NOT have access to aero, as a result)

The quests said nothing about requiring any particular classes at any level other than the obvious level 30 prerequisite for Arcanist, so draw conclusions as you will... but since I had both DoM jobs at 20, there isn't really anything conclusive to draw.

Both quests began in the ACN guild after you complete the level 30 class quest, and SCH sends you to the Marauder guild (Where your scholar contact will remain for later quests), and then subsequently elsewhere to complete 1 Duty quest.
Your contact for SMN is in Gridania, and is followed up similarly with a Duty quest.

*EDIT*

I suppose that the definitive piece of information you can pull from this is that there are at most 1 required classes for each job, and the second is definitely secondary simply for abilities.

Sorry if I missed it, but is it correct that summoner will be available on official release?

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Originally Posted by MinekoKoro

1. Pet survivability - do fight mechanics make my pet suddenly fall over dead?

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You get your caster Carby at 4 and Super Saiyan Carby (tank) at 15. I never encountered either pet dying when soloing. In groups, caster carby just stood beside me and never grabbed aggro, but if I did because I DoTed an add too soon, he would push it back with his skill. Tank Carby had almost twice the HP has any tank I saw in phase 4 and with both the ACN's version of cure and their pet heal, it was never an issue. Even if a pet does die it's only a 5sec cast time to re-summon a new one with full hp.

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Originally Posted by MinekoKoro

2. Pet AI - are my pets dropping whatever they are doing to suddenly attack another group of monsters because the pet ai is brain dead? Are they getting stuck in the environment and become unable to attack because they are attempting to get behind a boss when they can't?

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The only glaring issues I saw with pet AI was during the pirate boss in the 1st dungeon where he would run away, Carby would case after him and aggro mobs. In that case you need to tell him to heel or dismiss him. Another was with the stances where the Carby wouldn't stay in the follow orders stance or "passive" when I told him to attack. He would go back to his "defensive stance" after.

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Originally Posted by MinekoKoro

3. Pet micromanagement - a combination of the first two issues, in that in order to perform on the same level as the other dps jobs, an extra level of often clunky micromanagement for the pet is required because otherwise the pet would die, bug out, or pull unintended groups.

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With caster carby out I could leave him alone and he would just cast on my targets. If you need tank carby out if because you have a bad tank, theres lots of adds, and etc, then you will need to micro him if you want him to tank/offtank more than one mob. Once he has hate he's pretty much golden.

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Originally Posted by Belmore

Sorry if I missed it, but is it correct that summoner will be available on official release?

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yes it will

I was able to accept both Scholar and Summoner Job quest. My only 2 subs are THM and CNJ. Both are level 20. Also be ready to bash your head to the wall a little bit for the Lv 30 ACN Quest (required to advance into jobs).

After playing a bit today, I have to say Stoneskin on Topaz Carby is pretty sweet. His high base HP gives it a tad more oomph. I can only imagine it get's better when a CNJ with the upgrade casts it later.

Had a run earlier where we were rushing it a bit, trying to beat the maint downtime, and were doing that Slime/Bomb fight in copperbell. Tank died early so I busted out Topaz and had him keep the slimes busy while the 2nd DPS camped the fireman spriggan. Carby ate that Bomb's Self Destruct like it was candy and kept going. Good times.

Tobaz Carby can easily tank the ~15 dungeons. the slime fight was rather interesting since you have to bring it to the bomb so other people have to help with bring the bomb to the slime. i finished that fight with two people dead because they were slow in avoiding the explosions.

I always assumed SMN's titan and garuda replace the carby duo, but so far I can still summon the carbies and ifrit with lv30. I guess this will change after the other job quests. predicting fights similar to the lv30 one.

Coming from playing a Warlock in WoW for several years, there are a few issues with pet control that I hope S-E addresses:

1) Separate pet GCD from player GCD. This is extremely annoying. When you're casting a spell, you can't even direct your pet to attack a different target. This also makes specific pet abilities less responsive as you can't activate them while the player is on GCD. What makes this even more wonky is that if you have your pet set to 'Sic' to auto-fire its abilities, it can do so regardless of the player's GCD.

2) If you set your pet to Passive mode, it should remain in that stance even after ordering it to attack a target. If the target dies, the pet should return to you. Currently, pets switch back to Defensive mode once you order it to attack. The reason Passive mode is preferable is that it gives you much more control over your pet.

Unlocked SMN today, not sure how I feel about the job yet. It's a bummer that we lose all those nice cross class skills from cnj (aero,protect). Ifrit worked quite good in Haukke Manor so far. I'm interested to know at what level we get Titan (main story quest suggest he comes after Ifrit).

They need to buff the dmg on Ifrit-egi and perhaps his hp a little. My chocobo companion could outdmg him, which I find rather pathetic.

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Originally Posted by abesut

They need to buff the dmg on Ifrit-egi and perhaps his hp a little. My chocobo companion could outdmg him, which I find rather pathetic.

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Chocobo is supposed to be equivalent to a full player. SMN shouldn't be doing 2 players worth of damage.

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Originally Posted by Cebo

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1) Pet is not bound to our GCD, but just like all skills, off GCD or not, commanding out pet is bound to animations. During the initial animation of a skill, or the entire cast time of a skill, we cannot command the pet. It has nothing to do with the GCD.

2) Use Obey. When you make your pet Obey, it will only use the auto attack skill. It will stay on "Obey" until you zone or need to re-summon it. You can put the other skills on your hot bar.

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Originally Posted by Cori

It's a bummer that we lose all those nice cross class skills from cnj (aero,protect).

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We are supposed to be able to use CNJ skills. It's bugged. Scroll over Aero, protect, etc, as CNJ or ACN and it lists SMN as a job that can use it.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

We are supposed to be able to use CNJ skills. It's bugged. Scroll over Aero, protect, etc, as CNJ or ACN and it lists SMN as a job that can use it.

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I hope the bug is that SMN is on the tooltip

would much prefer raging strikes over aero

I've just hit 28 ACN and in getting a little excited. Is SMN's ifrit egi more powerful than the standard carbuncle? Does it gain some better abilities?

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Originally Posted by Cebo

Coming from playing a Warlock in WoW for several years, there are a few issues with pet control that I hope S-E addresses:

1) When you're casting a spell, you can't even direct your pet to attack a different target. This also makes specific pet abilities less responsive as you can't activate them while the player is on GCD.

2) Currently, pets switch back to Defensive mode once you order it to attack. The reason Passive mode is preferable is that it gives you much more control over your pet.

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This is definitely something that needs to be patched. Scholars have also reported that pets are unable to be micromanaged during casting. Auto-cast is always on; guard stance doesn't function properly.

This flaw affects Arcanists, Summoners, and Scholars alike. Let's get this fixed!

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Originally Posted by Kevee

1) Pet is not bound to our GCD, but just like all skills, off GCD or not, commanding out pet is bound to animations. During the initial animation of a skill, or the entire cast time of a skill, we cannot command the pet. It has nothing to do with the GCD.

2) Use Obey. When you make your pet Obey, it will only use the auto attack skill. It will stay on "Obey" until you zone or need to re-summon it. You can put the other skills on your hot bar.

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Alright, call it "animation-lock" then, not GCD. Pet abilities and pet commands shouldn't be locked out when the player is animation-locked. It makes no sense and makes it more difficult to micro-manage and control your pet.

I saw some one mention that cross class abilities didn't work with summoner, but that is not the case. I had a derp moment and noticed the cross class spells were unchecked when I transitioned to summoner, so all of it just needs to be rechecked and everything should work properly.

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Originally Posted by Wetoh

I saw some one mention that cross class abilities didn't work with summoner, but that is not the case. I had a derp moment and noticed the cross class spells were unchecked when I transitioned to summoner, so all of it just needs to be rechecked and everything should work properly.

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They said you don't keep everything.... You lose all your Conjurer spells, but keep the THM.

Also.... i absolutely see no reason to use Ifrit over Topaz Carby when soloing... Carby is way better for solo... well at least until you get Titan.

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Originally Posted by zx10r

Also.... i absolutely see no reason to use Ifrit over Topaz Carby when soloing... Carby is way better for solo... well at least until you get Titan.

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Probably because Ifrit is going to do a fair bit more damage than Carbuncle and still isn't in danger of dying to anything.

Ifrit also gives you access to an on demand stun which is extremely useful.

Anyone know how to filter out everyone elses debuffs/dots on target so its easier to maintain our dots?

there is no way for now.your debuffs have s green border

So do you stop leveling your secondary job at 15 for your main? So confused right now...

For instance I leveled Thaumaturge to 15, should I be leveling this to 25 so I have access to more spells at 50 for Summoner?

Also is there a site that shows what spells we get access from other classes depending on our level?

Thank you so much!

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Originally Posted by Hanabishi

So do you stop leveling your secondary job at 15 for your main? So confused right now...

For instance I leveled Thaumaturge to 15, should I be leveling this to 25 so I have access to more spells at 50 for Summoner?

Also is there a site that shows what spells we get access from other classes depending on our level?

Thank you so much!

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I'm using this one for the time being, but im not sure if it's all correct.
http://www.ffxivinfo.com/class/arcanist.php

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Originally Posted by zx10r

Also.... i absolutely see no reason to use Ifrit over Topaz Carby when soloing... Carby is way better for solo... well at least until you get Titan.

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Ifrit-egi's damage is noticeably greater, and, as mentioned, he has a stun. The damage is often enough that I won't pull hate off him till near the end of a fight. Multiple-mob duty quests would see Topaz/Titan having the advantage.

Got a noob question. I heard that ur sum is only as powerful as ur arn. Someone said get ur arn to 50 then work on ur sum. My question is would they not both level up at the same time?

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Originally Posted by Quasihemdem

Got a noob question. I heard that ur sum is only as powerful as ur arn. Someone said get ur arn to 50 then work on ur sum. My question is would they not both level up at the same time?

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They do. SMN and SCH are just specializations of ACN. You're still an ACN, but you can draw abilities from either SMN/SCH depending on what job stone you have equipped. You can also heal lower level dungeons once you unlock scholar.

Sweet ty for the fast response.

I am a 45 Summoner currently and just wanted to point out that this class is currently very under-powered from MY experience.
We are classified as a DPS but our DPS is lacking compared to other DPS classes by a lot, this has been mentioned by alot of summoners that I know as well so it is not just me being bad at my class.

Compared to a Bard/Archer or Monk/Puglist or Dragoon/Lancer or even Thau/BlackMage we deal less damage to all of them in Dungeons.

Yes, we are a DoT based class and our damage deals overtime, even so; in boss fights where the DoTs run their full duration on the boss for maximum damage we are still lacking the DPS compared to the other classes.

They need to increase the DoT damage and increase the Pet damage much more for this class to be anywhere near useful compared to other classes.

I am a lv 34 summoner and I agree that little iffy and bane (dot spread) are not what I thought they would be.....however I like the class and hope they give the damage output a review.....I am excited for fester... And m&m 2......those of you out there using those in your loadout still feel under powered? I have to agree I am disappointed.....well there is always archer for ranged dps

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Originally Posted by mountaindew

Yes, we are a DoT based class and our damage deals overtime, even so; in boss fights where the DoTs run their full duration on the boss for maximum damage we are still lacking the DPS compared to the other classes.

They need to increase the DoT damage and increase the Pet damage much more for this class to be anywhere near useful compared to other classes.

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After having a few runs of sunken temple and cutters cry I got to the same conclusion. Our damage output is just too low in some scenarios. Take cutters cry for example, when the princess summons her minions all I could do is pop miasma, bio i+ii on princess then bane to spread the love on adds. Still, with the guard and marshal plus additional minions our party could not keep up even though we had PLD, DRG and WHM :(

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Originally Posted by Cori

After having a few runs of sunken temple and cutters cry I got to the same conclusion. Our damage output is just too low in some scenarios. Take cutters cry for example, when the princess summons her minions all I could do is pop miasma, bio i+ii on princess then bane to spread the love on adds. Still, with the guard and marshal plus additional minions our party could not keep up even though we had PLD, DRG and WHM :(

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I have done those dungeons without any problem even with 2 SMN on the party.

Currently I think SMN damage is the 2nd highest being bard the one who does most damage right now. For normal mobs I just send pet miasma, bio, bio II, fester, ruin and they are dead. I have killed level 49 mobs being 40 to complete the hunting log without any problems. I think SMN is perfect as it is.

Speed is the biggest issue imo. it might put out good damage over time, especially with fester in your rotation. garuda giving extra time in DoTs is nice as well (which gives your more time spamming Ruin over and over again -_-), but lot's of the dungeons seem to need fast damage. Also in some fights it's hard to keep the summon alive (even more a scholar issue than smn).

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Originally Posted by mountaindew

I am a 45 Summoner currently and just wanted to point out that this class is currently very under-powered from MY experience.
We are classified as a DPS but our DPS is lacking compared to other DPS classes by a lot, this has been mentioned by alot of summoners that I know as well so it is not just me being bad at my class.

Compared to a Bard/Archer or Monk/Puglist or Dragoon/Lancer or even Thau/BlackMage we deal less damage to all of them in Dungeons.

Yes, we are a DoT based class and our damage deals overtime, even so; in boss fights where the DoTs run their full duration on the boss for maximum damage we are still lacking the DPS compared to the other classes.

They need to increase the DoT damage and increase the Pet damage much more for this class to be anywhere near useful compared to other classes.

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I am 40 and feel the exact opposite.

Even not factoring in my pet I am almost always #2 on aggro list.

Excuse me, i did the Titan Quest but i dont see the egi quest yet. Where is the quest?

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Originally Posted by Alenghil

I have done those dungeons without any problem even with 2 SMN on the party.

Currently I think SMN damage is the 2nd highest being bard the one who does most damage right now. For normal mobs I just send pet miasma, bio, bio II, fester, ruin and they are dead. I have killed level 49 mobs being 40 to complete the hunting log without any problems. I think SMN is perfect as it is.

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That's right. SMN is a class that can do many things solo, like quests and finishing hunting logs. But as a party member, i still don't know if the damage is high enough. Maybe SMN will need a buff or two.