Retainers Will Gather For You in ARR

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Lol Klive.

Its a great idea... fir people who don't want to spend times gathering or who don't build playtime around.

Try to see my side and please stop belittling my feelings and the feelings of those like me.

Thank you

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I'm not trying to belittle your feelings. You are entitled to your feelings and, by default, your feelings are justified. I'm just trying, perhaps poorly, to encourage more openness to change. :)

Maybe you missed it, but gathering was pretty much ignored during 1.0 and I just thought that would end in 2.0. Specific examples I'm speaking in regards to mob placements. It was really... impossible to gather especially when hoards of imperials were crowding Iron Lake... for one example.

Another was stats that capped in explicably early and had no noticible effect on anything you gathered for the entire length of 1.0.

Sure they're working on it now but will the end product bring any satisfaction or will it become a chore because so much depth purpose and relevance will be removed to please those who would rather go raiding dungeons?

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Sure they're working on it now but will the end product bring any satisfaction or will it become a chore because so much depth purpose and relevance will be removed to please those who would rather go raiding dungeons?

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That's a good point, I'm not a dungeon or end game type of player, gathering and crafting are basically my end game, I do hope the systems in place are challenging AND fun and not totally put to the side, marginalized so it's not really an integral part of the game.

Something tells me that they would not do that though, but stranger things have happened. :P

I'll that other game and see while awaiting more details. Others may not think so but the stakes are high for me. I want to feel happy that gathering will be fixed ay last ...

In all honesty, in 1.0 I could just spend a afternoon having FUN playing the gathering mini-games. While I wasn't a market guru by any stretch at selling things, I found gathering quite enjoyable. When I saw they had simplified it to clicking and chances I was disappointed but open to the change. One of the things I loved about 1.0 was the gathering and crafting systems and how unique they were. In games like WoW leveling tailoring can be quite tedious and stale; didn't have the magic to it that 1.0 had.

For lalas like me and Hiir please keep a open mind to how we can implement it best for everyone. I think limiting it to your garden is a great idea.~

Until then I'll sit tight for more information and try not to worry. :3

I don't really like the idea of a retainer gathering for people. I'm sure some people don't like to gather, but that means you go buy that mats of the AH or whatever that us gatherers used our own time to get. If this really does happen i feel like the retainer should be gone all day and bring back like 20 materials, with only maybe 1 HQ if any.

I agree with Hiir, but lets wait and see what it will be like in beta and then we can start tearing it apart :P

My hatchet is ready...

I know gatherer/crafters are subclass now but I also started as a Miner in FFXIV thinking it was cool to be able to start as none fighter/mage class. I'm ok with the subclass but I don't want the devs to dumb down gatherer/crafters. Lots of JP expressed this as well.

I was just thinking lightly about the retainers doing gathering for you but again I am just hoping the devs already know how some like Hiir and others feel about this and not go to that extent. Still hoping it's something really minor like others mentioned where it's just all NQ low low level stuff or not even regular gathering related but more like attending your own farms in housing and stuff.

you guys seem to be under the impression that our retainers will come back from their "gathering chores" and have stacks upon stacks of 99 items and that will throw off the ballance of things. i don't think that it will be that way, and i for one welcome the idea for retainers to gather for us. no matter how they pull it off, it's a cool idea. and i ..."feel very strongly about it." :)

*looks*

I find myself wrestling with my more Jaded nature here. I can understand the idea of having a system of depth and enjoyment for those attracted to it. But one without enough attractive features can be harmful to the game as a whole in more ways, as you'll just get a few select people abusing crafting material prices or intentionally flooding the market.

Having a retainer who, after an ample amount of investment, can say, bring some meterials for a guy working two jobs and having about enough time to raid before he goes to bed for the next double shift, it helps them not fall so far behind in the other parts of the game he simply can't play.

Over all it feels too knee-jerky of a reaction to call fowl at giving the Retainer more functions than simply storing and selling stuff. And at least with 'legal botting' there can be a level of control given to the amount of worth one gets out of using this function.

Feeling passionate about something is usually the incorrect course of action when trying to mull it over logically.

But...isn't this the whole crux of the hardcore/casual question? "This thing here is really hard/time consuming to get, therefore only the hardcore players can/should get it". Just seems like a double standard when we talk about gathering like this. Maybe im not understanding how this is supposed to work, but...so far, im not liking it.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

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...Feeling passionate about something is usually the incorrect course of action when trying to mull it over logically.

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Normally true yes, lol, but this is about a game and how to enjoy it. Logic isn't really at play here...

And also, there arent many of us 50x3 Gatherers for a reason. We put a lot of hours and effort in and this whole concept makes me a little sad. One less point on my precious snowflake maybe but, damnit, my snowflake IS special...to me. So yeah...passionate all the way baby.

I had an idea waaaaay back when 1.0 was first out that it would be cool if everyone had their own personal moogle to go buy and sell stuff from the shops and not having to always go to the shops to set these things up. If a retainer can handle buying and selling for me, that would be awesome. Gathering? Also a plus.

To those who are upset about having to do all that gathering to get to level 50 and feeling the retainers will take away our jobs - consider that if retainers have levels, would not you have to gather your way to 50 through the same hard work and dedication as usual in order to have a level 50 retainer? Once at level 50, additional gathering on your own time will not get you anywhere, so retainer-gotten materials sounds like a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Uriahnool

To those who are upset about having to do all that gathering to get to level 50 and feeling the retainers will take away our jobs - consider that if retainers have levels, would not you have to gather your way to 50 through the same hard work and dedication as usual in order to have a level 50 retainer?

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http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/20...f5f87d4f34.jpg

You have my ears.... of course, players would have to be online to level retainers... yes?

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I find the very idea of my gather items competing with what NPCs do in the marketplace distasteful. NPCs should be that. NON-playing characters.

It's making botting legal.

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I agree with this...it's basically having sanctioned botting...except it's built into the game. Give RMT long enough to level hundreds of "Retainer farming" accounts and soon enough you'll have a flooded market with hugely inflated prices.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We just wanted to let you know that relying on your retainer alone to gather for you isn't going to cover all of your gathering needs. We are planning this system very carefully to ensure it does not destroy any sort of economic balance so you can rest easy in that regard.

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There you go :) just like i said many time it going to be balance it be just something fun to have around. But it wont be something that would help 100% your needs.

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Originally Posted by Uriahnool

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To those who are upset about having to do all that gathering to get to level 50 and feeling the retainers will take away our jobs - consider that if retainers have levels, would not you have to gather your way to 50 through the same hard work and dedication as usual in order to have a level 50 retainer? Once at level 50, additional gathering on your own time will not get you anywhere, so retainer-gotten materials sounds like a good thing.

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Well, ok good point. But...i like gathering. I'm not so into the idea of leveling a retainer .__.

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Originally Posted by schism

Retainers gaining lvls no thnx. But now they gonna gather like in a game that failed miserably . Yeah excellent idea lol. We can only hope they listen to the ppl that dont want this to fail.

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Doesn't really matter whether a game it appeared in before failed or not. It wasn't the gathering that made it fail. By that logic we shouldn't have anything that was in the original XIV since it failed.

As for the issue itself, at the moment I'm indifferent. I'll wait until we have more information before making up my mind.

I wonder how "easy mode" it is. If buying the stuff we gather is more convenient than retainer gathering, then it will remain the "poor man's option", thus lessening the effect on the economy. If it doesn't take away the need for gathering subclasses, then I would hope that people would still consider picking up the ol' hatchet and going out and harvesting and gathering, thus preserving the subjob of gathering

This is my hope and I'll give it a chance, but the minute I see retainer run businesses I'm crying foul. We can't let this get out of hand.

I've found my passion for gathering very late in FFXIV, but when I finally started it it was awesome. It is certainly the first thing I'll do when I get to play ARR at release. It is by no means a chore as it is a system about knowing the market, exploring Eorzea and chat with fellow gatherers. Besides you could call everything a chore. Leveling to 50? chore. Dzemael Darkhold 1038712 times to get 1 piece of equipment? chore. Why can't we let our retainers form a party to farm the darklight gear then?

If a vast majority of the players doesn't want to gather that's cool but letting retainers do it for you is not a solution (not even to a small extend). Make Gathering even more attractive if you think we gatherers can't deliver supplies for a stable economy. Well but we'll have to wait for Beta to see how it turns out.. MAYBE it is balanced and does NOT affect the economy. Otherwise prepare for some serious feedback from Hiir and me >_<. Nice to meet you btw :)

Can't find it on the roadmap (unless it's "Player Search
Markets / Item Search (text strings, HQ, materia, etc.) / Other" in Phase 1)

Well let's hope for the best><

Nice to meet you too! And to all my other fellow gather fans. ^^/

Retainers Will Gather For You in ARR

Sounds great!!!!! Will enjoy seeing how this system will work. I don't see the reason to be discouraged by it when no one has experienced the system yet.

The only thing what I can get from this is why a Retainer will gather for you is to help out with not spending your whole life in a GAME. Free time up to enjoy the many possibilities ARR will introduce in the future.

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Originally Posted by Paix

Retainers Will Gather For You in ARR
The only thing what I can get from this is why a Retainer will gather for you is to help out with not spending your whole life in a GAME. Free time up to enjoy the many possibilities ARR will introduce in the future.

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That's hardly the point (as I see it). If you don't have the time/don't want to spend time to gather, don't do it and buy the items. Set priorities. I'm sure there are a few gatherers who don't have time to level all DoW/DoM to 50 or are bored after their first. Well one could say that the EXP resting Bonus would help leveling a DoM/DoW but then again this is used to level up for DoL as well and it won't compete with other players. That is just the way I see it though. If it turns out to be actually cool or the majority of players likes it we will just have to deal with it. :)

Just to add more coal to the fire on for this thread.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We just wanted to let you know that relying on your retainer alone to gather for you isn't going to cover all of your gathering needs. We are planning this system very carefully to ensure it does not destroy any sort of economic balance so you can rest easy in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

Well, ok good point. But...i like gathering. I'm not so into the idea of leveling a retainer .__.

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Why do people see "You can gather with a retainer" and then think that the use of such things are mandatory??

If you like gathering, go and gather.

If you don't like the idea of levelling a retainer, don't level the retainer.

Just throwing this out there to see what opinion you guys have of this.

In 2.0 crafting leves are designed to have players supply the mats. Would you guys object to retainer gathering based on the required mats for leves?

As an example. You pick up 3 carpentry leves. The first requires you make 6 oak logs into lumber. the second wants you to craft 3 maple wands from branches. the third is to cut 6 mahogany logs into planks.

This requires you to have
6x oak log
6x mahogany log
3x maple branches
***simplifying mats for ease of explanation***

You could therefore send your retainer out to gather these mats listed as required by the leves currently in your possession. They would return with only these items after the set period of time.

Thoughts?

Atelier series use this method of gathering materials.

But beside that I am all for this, I know there's no way SE would allow the system to break the game in anyway. Of course they'll be restrictions.

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Originally Posted by KiraHime

Just throwing this out there to see what opinion you guys have of this.

In 2.0 crafting leves are designed to have players supply the mats. Would you guys object to retainer gathering based on the required mats for leves?

As an example. You pick up 3 carpentry leves. The first requires you make 6 oak logs into lumber. the second wants you to craft 3 maple wands from branches. the third is to cut 6 mahogany logs into planks.

This requires you to have
6x oak log
6x mahogany log
3x maple branches
***simplifying mats for ease of explanation***

You could therefore send your retainer out to gather these mats listed as required by the leves currently in your possession. They would return with only these items after the set period of time.

Thoughts?

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I think I would be okay with that! :)

I'm okay with that sort of thing but for lower level people, would their retainers be high enough level to do that?

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Originally Posted by Ashaylin

I distinctly remember people suggesting that retainers be able to tend your garden and gather your crops for you. Please, let it mean that they'll only be your gardener or stablemaster. Anything dealing with the open world I do not want.

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I totally aggree with you.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I'm okay with that sort of thing but for lower level people, would their retainers be high enough level to do that?

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I think this depends on how retainers are leveled. I think some people are thinking as you are that retainers will level gathering up to 50 or some equivalent. Another possibility is that a retainer may have a range of lets say 5 levels and as it levels up each level unlocks new abilities.

For example
level 1 - Can be placed in Market Wards (or 2.0 equivalent)
level 2 - Can be placed in Market Wards and undertake shopping expeditions
level 3 - Can be placed in Market Wards, undertake shopping and gathering expeditions
level 4 - Can be placed in Market Wards, undertake shopping and gathering expeditions and house gardening tasks
level 5 - Can be placed in Market Wards, undertake shopping and gathering expeditions, house gardening and chocobo raising tasks


Again all the above is totally made up to illustrate a point. As an awesome but totally unlikely thought, how cool would it be that once your retainer 'capped out' its level you could change it to a pet avatar, gogo retainermon evolution!!! XD

I'm sure there will be limitations on how much a retainer can actually do for you in gathering. If they can do everything then why would they still make those classes playable? We'll just have to wait and find out what they have in store. I'm sure it'll be something nifty!

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Originally Posted by Kinyoto

I'm sure there will be limitations on how much a retainer can actually do for you in gathering. If they can do everything then why would they still make those classes playable? We'll just have to wait and find out what they have in store. I'm sure it'll be something nifty!

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It's like people don't read the dev post.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We just wanted to let you know that relying on your retainer alone to gather for you isn't going to cover all of your gathering needs. We are planning this system very carefully to ensure it does not destroy any sort of economic balance so you can rest easy in that regard.

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Honestly, what do you expect? Consider how the gathering process works in the first place. The following link is from a dev posting video from the old alpha version in which a botanist simply walks up to a node, clicks the item he wants, and it is handed to him. No challenging minigame or skill required.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...010#post999010

Of course, that is not all. In the Q&A period (next link below) Yoshi-P himself outright stated that there will be no actions taken during the fishing process either. In other words, no skill or patience required here either?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...system-changes

With this in mind it really doesn't matter if there are retainers doing it because gathering itself has become so easy that even without retainers doing it for you I don't expect ANY of the gathering items to sell for any significant amount of money at all. Also, I know Okipuit wants to regulate NPC gathering to prevent undue harm to the economy but I would argue that is not possible. Many players don't bother crafting, they're combat focused. So if they have a retainer they might as well set him to go out and gather mats they won't use and after a few weeks they'll have a good haul for the AH.

I am still very much looking forward to FFXIV ARR. I have been ever since the 1.0 servers went down. But I am deeply disappointed with how blatantly easy they are making gathering. If these items are practically handed to players in more ways than one, how can you expect to make money gathering?

I kind of like this idea. I saw no mention at all of it in Beta forums but this would eliminate the shard grind. Send out a retainer for Wind shards, go get materials for whatever it is you plan to grind yourself.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

I kind of like this idea. I saw no mention at all of it in Beta forums but this would eliminate the shard grind. Send out a retainer for Wind shards, go get materials for whatever it is you plan to grind yourself.

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I have no idea why, but my 1.0 character started B3 with about eight thousand of each type of shard (I had pretty much none when Dalamud hit). Looks like my retainers won't ever need to do this and will instead live in the Market Wards for their entire life!! Haha.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Yep, no point in ever wielding the old hatchet any more. Why go out and gather items if your good ol' retainer will do it for you and then go back and sell it for you.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...431#post946431

There had better be some restrictions on this.

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Gathering is not the same as harvesting, so you will still have to don that hatchet it looks like. Just not the scythe. I also cannot find my scythes on my char. so looks like harvesting got removed from the btn class. btn harvest onry now.

Scythes are still in. BTNs get their first scythe in the level 10 quest.

I think youre giving a bit too much credit to your retainer and its capabilities.

*****WARNING******complete personal speculation*********WARNING****

For example, if you are a level 5 DoL your retainer will not be capable of supplying your needs for your level 5 DoH, and certainly wont be capable of meeting your outputs as a DoL, probably not even meeting half your outputs.


If you are a level 50 DoL, and you need 99 Tin ore or some other 1-10 item it might take your retainer 5 days to get 99 or something along those lines.

Basically probably what they will do with the retainer is if youre very high it will, (if youre of somewhat patient) gather your supplies so you wont have to go out and farm the low level items. (Most likely a max of level 20 with a major increase in wait times for higher level items.)

Most likely it'll be about twenty-times more useful for your retainer to be selling your stuff at the Market or in the recently announced shop that you can put up in the housing area.

It sounds like asking them to gather for you is only something you'd do if you knew you'd be away from the game for a week or so (unless you hate selling stuff).