PvP decision. What do you say to PvE implement content?

I want EvE.... Forest vs Desert action! Yes, please!

sorry, have an hour left of work, and the clock seems to be ticking backwards

So after it has become fashionable obviously, for the English forum simply to seek only the google translator, I do it.

I think the game needs both - PvP and PvE.
the manner in which it is then made is critical.

The game has all of the elements to make a really nice fitting PvPvE element. Aion, despite the direction it eventually went, had some really good elements with their Abyss-PVP, and how the NPC faction could get involved right in the middle of a brawl between the factions.

It's definitely going to take a gentle tread to kick PVP off in the right direction, but I feel confident that they're taking notes from games that have/are done/doing balance-and-changes correctly. Have a little faith.

(If it turns out this all goes belly up, I will deny having ever said that.)

How did some of you actually figure out what OP said?

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Originally Posted by Colino

How did some of you actually figure out what OP said?

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Must be that forum decoder ring that got lost in 1.0. I appreciate the attempt though.

pvp gets boring fast for me. i loved warhammer even with it's faults and failure. it was my first all pvp mmo. i think that is how it should go. pve mmo's and separate pvp mmo's. i feel that mmo's that are pve usually add pvp to compensate for lack of good pve too. so both are mediocre. but it can still be fun to have in any mmo to a point. any pvp in these mmo's is like a shooter. after few months of playing hardcore your done with it and want a totally new game. but a fully focused game that is pvp done right would be great.

in the case of ffxiv having pvp. i think they are adding it just to have it like other mmo's have it. also they are doing what i fear most and trying to compensate for lack of pve. they will let you get to max level in few weeks and then think hey you can do pvp over and over while we wait months and months for new content. no no no. /quit is will be what happens in this case, for this mmo. so that is what i think of pvp in pve games, they can't use it as an excuse to remove grinds and slow leveling and dynamic play from beginning to the end.

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Originally Posted by Colino

How did some of you actually figure out what OP said?

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Keywords /nod

Sometimes all it takes is one word, PvP, PvE. . . . and people will construct their own discussions around those words.

I loathe PVP and never do it, I wish PVP and PVE never mixed, because when they do the PVE game suffers due to endless PVP QQing leading to never-ending class changes as 'OP' skills get nerfed to pander to the PVP 1v1er whining.

Read the forums of WOW, Rift, LOTRO (which has a weird form of PVP which even so yields endless QQ) and others, the largest proportion on whining comes from PVPers complaining such and such a class is OP, which in turns leads to a never-ending stream of class changes trying [and failing spectacularly] to balance classes in PVP while treating the PVE game as collateral damage.

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

I loathe PVP and never do it, I wish PVP and PVE never mixed, because when they do the PVE game suffers due to endless PVP QQing leading to never-ending class changes as 'OP' skills get nerfed to pander to the PVP 1v1er whining.

Read the forums of WOW, Rift, LOTRO (which has a weird form of PVP which even so yields endless QQ) and others, the largest proportion on whining comes from PVPers complaining such and such a class is OP, which in turns leads to a never-ending stream of class changes trying [and failing spectacularly] to balance classes in PVP while treating the PVE game as collateral damage.

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I don't like PvP, in general, but I loooved LotRO PvP, playing on the opposite side as a Warg :3 It was actually fun biting my friends' asses who were playing on their main chars :p All-Warg party? Yes, please! >:]

I do not mind PvP in games, what angers me is PvP effecting PvE in anyway.

Balancing skills/abilities for another player with 3k hp and a boss with 120k hp are very different and near impossible to do. Game that change the dmg output or effect of a spell because it is OP in pvp tend to just annoy me to no end.

PvP should exist but in a different arena then PvE with its own unique rule set. Balancing PvP is good but not at the expense of PvE. PvE > PvP in a Final Fantasy. An Ability should never be changed in PvE because it is OP in PvP.

I've only PVP'ed in WOW, but I'm still trying to figure out how PVP has ruined anything PVE in that game. If anything, PVE balancing has been constantly ruining PVP in WOW.

people need to stop crying when there class isn't as good as another. they should consider it party play. not solo play so your not op or equal but part of a group. too bad to all the cry babies that die cause they want to solo every class. just pick the one class that is op then if anything. if no crying would happen no changes would be necessary. lol.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I've only PVP'ed in WOW, but I'm still trying to figure out how PVP has ruined anything PVE in that game. If anything, PVE balancing has been constantly ruining PVP in WOW.

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People bitch about PvP balance which they then balance everything around PvP which when a class worked well in PvE suddenly turned to shit but became amazing in PvP.

It was an on-going balance battle throughout most of WoW's existence.

From my personal experience with WoW I remember Blizzard increasing the damage of my Ret Paladin at the start of the Lich King expansion for PVE. The side effect of this was Ret Paladins dominating in PvP since the class is designed for burst damage. Blizzard quickly nerfed Ret Paladins so they didn't have as much burst damage.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

From my personal experience with WoW I remember Blizzard increasing the damage of my Ret Paladin at the start of the Lich King expansion. The side effect of this was Ret Paladins dominating in PvP since the class is designed for burst damage. Blizzard quickly nerfed Ret Paladins so they didn't have as much burst damage.

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The net effect being that their PVE damage and role stayed the same, they just fixed how overpowered they were in PVP. That's always been the cycle in WOW: buff/change classes to fit the PVE model, then fix anything that broke with it in PVP later on. It was never the other way around, and no serious MMO has it that way either.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

people need to stop crying when there class isn't as good as another. they should consider it party play. not solo play so your not op or equal but part of a group. too bad to all the cry babies that die cause they want to solo every class. just pick the one class that is op then if anything. if no crying would happen no changes would be necessary. lol.

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Have you ever considered that people want to play the class that they find fun and not be ostracized for it?

to bad, you can't expect to pick a healer class and be equal. but again that is why pve mmo's and pvp ones should always be separate. waist of time and resources trying to get it right or make people happy.

Yet keep throwing WoW into the mix where people get ostracized for trying to do a build they personally find fun.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

to bad, you can't expect to pick a healer class and be equal. but again that is why pve mmo's and pvp ones should always be separate. waist of time and resources trying to get it right or make people happy.

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Nobody picks a class with a vastly defined role and expect to play a completely different role. But when someone picks a DD class, they expect to be a DD and not be excluded from content because their class is useless at its role.

I have no idea what you're getting at.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yet keep throwing WoW into the mix where people get ostracized for trying to do a build they personally find fun.

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Has been fixed with the latest WOW expansion.

oh! be surprised is response.
sorry the late reply.

PvP or PvE be different.
PvE not stranger there is a part make good.
PvE(Pleyer versus Enemy). Enemy not pleyer but mob and so forth computer algorithm.
so not player. PvE a lot of pleyer cooperate versus computer algorithm make mob to battle.
{†FINAL FANTASY XIV for example eidolon(primals) battle is imitate.}
that battle also player happy content is I think.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

I want PvP!

Japanese vs American (Do you need it?)

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japanese, not american go to war!
this most japanese player, not dispute like.
so most japanese not PvP like.
there no doubt about it.

PvE in play Guild Wars ＩＩ to cooperate subversive intense play!
for that reason FINAL FANTASY XIV A Realm Reborn in content if it is delightful I think.

japanese player to english player to world player to an opponent not lose computer algorithm make mob to intense battle able I think.
that climb over a wall of language intense play think.

that the present global MMORPG to aim for the top need think.
†FINAL FANTASY XIV, Guild Wars ＩＩ, compared to that grasp.
what’s like content finder.
how FINAL FANTASY XIV A Realm Reborn I FINAL FANTASY fan as how look forward to FINAL FANTASY XIV A Realm Reborn♪

at times Google translation and excite translation to use.
but they no avail I already know.

later I do not have much time.
look nine reply please? Reinheart.

this place AM 03:00 has passed.
I have to go to bed!

see you later♪

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Nobody picks a class with a vastly defined role and expect to play a completely different role. But when someone picks a DD class, they expect to be a DD and not be excluded from content because their class is useless at its role.

I have no idea what you're getting at.

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what i'm saying is every class has it's use in a party roll. mmo classes should all play differently and not all be the same thing but with slight differences like one has a bow and one has up close combat. mmo's like gw2 playing any class feels like the same crap to me and that is cause they make them equal and trying to make them all solo'able. make them all there own rather then part of a party dynamic. pvp is a party system to begin with, so complaining your gimp just means hello, you should be around others with that class. if there are some that can hold there own then that's the class you want, pick it and lets not change every class by nerfs and buffs.

but i guess i get it, i don't want classes all being the same cause they are all usually very different and fun in there own way, least that is what it's like in ffxi and some mmo's. but other mmo's this is not the case they are just all the same trash, you fight the mobs in the same manner no matter what class you pick. and complaining about one class being to op is the outcome from this and that is what i'm getting at. screw the crybabies and let them cry over it and reroll if they don't like it, why they gotta ruin all the classes to make them equal.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

what i'm saying is every class has it's use in a party roll. mmo classes should all play differently and not all be the same thing but with slight differences like one has a bow and one has up close combat. mmo's like gw2 playing any class feels like the same crap to me and that is cause they make them equal and trying to make them all solo'able. make them all there own rather then part of a party dynamic. pvp is a party system to begin with, so complaining your gimp just means hello, you should be around others with that class. if there are some that can hold there own then that's the class you want, pick it and lets not change every class by nerfs and buffs.

but i guess i get it, i don't want classes all being the same cause they are all usually very different and fun in there own way, least that is what it's like in ffxi and some mmo's. but other mmo's this is not the case they are just all the same trash, you fight the mobs in the same manner no matter what class you pick. and complaining about one class being to op is the outcome from this and that is what i'm getting at. screw the crybabies and let them cry over it and reroll if they don't like it, why they gotta ruin all the classes to make them equal.

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I don't believe for a second that you've played other MMOs, and you're just spouting off BS.

Going by your mentality, we should only have one healer, one tank, and one DD class, because anyone who is not the optimal class for the role should just "cry over it and reroll".

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I don't believe for a second that you've played other MMOs, and you're just spouting off BS.

Going by your mentality, we should only have one healer, one tank, and one DD class, because anyone who is not the optimal class for the role should just "cry over it and reroll".

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i've played basically every mmo that has came out since i quit ffxi, that isn't what i was saying. but your on to something, i've yet to enjoy a mmo since ffxi. so go figure. but lol so the people who's class gets nerfed after say leveling it for over a year should reroll without crying? i wasn't a ranger in ffxi but i remember people crying about that big time, a game like ffxi where it took a year to level and all of sudden nerf'd lol. if anything what they could do is force only 1 of each class in a party only. i'm not a dev but if we are gonna have so many choices in classes maybe that is the part that needs working on rather then the classes. just saying.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

i've played basically every mmo that has came out since i quit ffxi, that isn't what i was saying. but your on to something, i've yet to enjoy a mmo since ffxi. so go figure. but lol so the people who's class gets nerfed after say leveling it for over a year should reroll without crying? i wasn't a ranger in ffxi but i remember people crying about that big time, a game like ffxi where it took a year to level and all of sudden nerf'd lol. if anything what they could do is force only 1 of each class in a party only. i'm not a dev but if we are gonna have so many choices in classes maybe that is the part that needs working on rather then the classes. just saying.

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No, people should not be whining if their class is nerfed.

Yes, people should be whining if their class sucks so much that the rest of the game's population excludes them from content.

Yes, developers should be doing a mix of buffing and nerfing to make sure that all classes are equally viable and you don't have a handful of classes dominating all content while others are on the sideline diddling themselves.

Balance is an ongoing, never-ending process. Rangers, BLMs, and other classes in FFXI whined to hell and back because they got used to being the kings of the game and they didn't like it when they got knocked down a peg.

I think pvp should do ok as long as they keep it as a "mini game". Like battlegrounds and wintergrasp/tol barad in WoW, and have the reward system around it be more like ff 11 zone conquests thing (forgot what it was called) were the gc with the most control over a course a few days gets access to more items, although not necessarily stronger. have WoW arena style things for Free companies and try to make them 5v5+ (maybe even 3v3 but nothing smaller) so the focus is on grp coordination and play, have this with a ladder system if ppl want it etc and keep the rewards from it cosmetic, namely for boasting. and dueling and 2v2 can be there just for fun.

Well pvp is here to stay, you can't have a modern mmo without it. It's not going to be a huge focus probably, but should receive enough attention to make it a fun side game. I'm doubting it will be ready for long after release anyways. We'll see.

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to bad, you can't expect to pick a healer class and be equal.

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Not true. For one, in WoW, priests had a "shadow" path that focused more on damage (while still allowing you your healing abilities). In addition, in FFXIV, conjurer/WHM has effective damage spells. While these don't get used that often in PvE, they will be valuable for PvP. On top of that, a healer/support class should still be an asset in PvP as long as your group is coordnated and takes advantage of it.

I think that open world PVP could be great depending on how it is implemented.
I remember playing Rappelz many years ago and it had an optional open world PVP. You just had to flag yourself as PVP-able and you were able to attack/be attacked by other players. For those who didn't like PVP, they just left that feature turned off. There was a countdown [delay] for both turning it on [give you the time to turn it back off in case of mistake] and off [prevents cowardly instantaneous "retreat"] too.

I think it would be nice to have something similar, that would both PVPers and PVEers can coexist and not be secluded in their own zones/worlds (because I have friends who do like PVP, would be a shame to have to be separated).