Additional Jobs for the future, a graphic, need help.

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Originally Posted by indira

they gotta drop the one weapon a job or this will suck.

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I hope the roots of this comment are not from FFXI's Warrior-equips-all

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Originally Posted by indira

they gotta drop the one weapon a job or this will suck.

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Agreed. They'd just have to carefully consider which jobs would be able to use what weapons and how would one or the other affect their performance while keeping the soul crystals for changing classes/jobs to keep XIV's ease to change roles. I can't think of a way to not make it sound too XI. That game's system just worked. :/

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Originally Posted by Warlock

I hope the roots of this comment are not from FFXI's Warrior-equips-all

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But they sucked at all but two weapons, lol.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

That's the problem with the class>job system. Every single job we're gonna see is basically going to just be a class plus a few skills. I like the idea of one class branching off to multiple jobs, but realistically, we're probably going to get a 1:1 ratio on them.

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Personally wish they would go the tactis route if they want branching jobs.

Let us unlock advanced jobs with more mastery of the base jobs, nothing to do with the power of the jobs of course but make it as a logical way to explain the advancement from a Marauder (Jack of all trades fighter) to a Berserker (Offensive specialist) to the Knight (Debilitating, offensive mix) With the mastery of other jobs.

Much better than hamstringing the unique possibillities of the jobs with being tied to a class in my opinion.

But what do I know?

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Originally Posted by Klefth

Agreed. They'd just have to carefully consider which jobs would be able to use what weapons and how would one or the other affect their performance. I can't think of a way to not make it sound too XI. That game's system just worked. :/

But they sucked at all but two weapons, lol.

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thus why let it remain 1 weapon per job/class i like it that way , the power of a weapon is limitless compared to FFXI's as it had to be gimped regulated always keeping in mind another job was capable of equipping said weapon with access to abilities that could make it way too powerful, that hassle is avoided here...imo this is the best way to go at it to the point that i wish CNJ/WHM was club/wand exclusive user and THM/BLM staff exclusive but both their relics are staves..oh well

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Originally Posted by Warlock

thus why let it remain 1 weapon per job/class i like it that way , the power of a weapon is limitless compared to FFXI's as it had to be gimped regulated always keeping in mind another job was capable of equipping said weapon with access to abilities that could make it way too powerful, that hassle is avoided here...imo this is the best way to go at it to the point that i wish CNJ/WHM was club/wand exclusive user and THM/BLM staff exclusive but both their relics are staves..oh well

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False. Any and all issues regarding one job being too overpowered or too weak with a weapon, and I mean one that job was supposed to use (not talking daggers on BLM here) could have and was tweaked through that job's skill levels with said weapon, so it didn't necessarily have to affect any other jobs at all. Examples are when they bumped up DNC's dagger skill and PUP's h2h skill since they were too weak/had very low accuracy.

Besides that, the only instance in which a job's ability in that game could have made a weapon far too powerful (and oh man, it sure did) was DRK's Soul Eater/2hr combo and Kraken Club. How did they fixed that? Gimping said ability combo or giving certain mobs resistance to it. They didn't just go and nerf clubs for everyone.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

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Great post, by the way.

First, I think that the best option for Lancer's other Job would be Templar. Templar would, of course, be unlocked by leveling Conjurer with Lancer. It would then have access to Conjurer and Gladiator skills. It could function as a back-up tank of sorts. Not as great of a tank as a PLD, but can definitely sustain itself if the Party's tank should fall.

Second, I think Freelancer should be changed to Fencer. I'd feel like that would better tie in to Red/Blue Mage.

Third, another class could be Paravir, which would use Greatswords. It's jobs would, of course, be Samurai and then [possibly] Darknight.

Lastly, if we change Darknight, we could then add Viking, or something similar.

Looking at all those jobs makes me excited... however ...every time I see a post about the possibility of 2 jobs being tied to one class it makes a part of my soul die. The sheer thought of just being "auto-capped" every time a job comes out makes me cringe. Not that I won't play if its done, it just makes me a very sad kitty. (Sorry I didn't have much to contribute to the thread besides my opinion-- carry on.)

For samurai have a Swordmaster class. A Swordmaster can advance to Samurai and maybe a Fencer.

If this is of any use in theorycraft...

Adventurer (unarmed)
Fencing (rapier)
Enforcer (club)
Samurai (great katana)
Stavesman (Staff)
Flayer (whip)
Shepherd (herding)
Mystic (mysticism)
Assassin (dark arts)
Ninja (Katana?)
Thief (dagger?)
Dark Knight (???)

These are the classes (or jobs) that have been brought up at least once (to my knowledge) by either a press release or dev/rep post during v1.x .

I know many things have and will change, but this list could clue us in on what other roles they had been considering as classes (or jobs, was not specified) which could realistically be balanced with those that existed at 1.0 launch, which apart from sentinel going away, has not changed a great deal.

I also made a "Job Ideas" list over at Googledocs a long time ago, although I specially made it for "1 Class = 1 Job" System, as "1 Class = 2 Jobs" didn't seem to work out for me. Linkie

Furthermore, there's my Idea of "Freelancer" and the "Tier Type" System, wherein for example you need; "3 Tier I Class at Lv 50" to access your first "Tier II Class"
*You may exclude my Dream Job of Gunbladier, was just for fun lol*

On the topic of the thread, I made a suggestion for the class>2Job
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Gladiator
-> Paladin
-> Blade Brandier (See what I did) -1-Handed Blade wielder, with Fist Abilities
-> Gunbladier ! (Joke Job)

Fencer
-> Red Mage
-> Blue Mage

Parivir
-> Samurai
-> Berserker

Lancer
-> Dragoon
-> Heavy Club User ? / Stavesman or "Heavy Lancer" Semi-tank Job
-> Gun-Halberdier ! (Joke Job)
*I want a Club/Whip wielding Job!*
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P.S.
I was thinking about "Means to gain Abilities" earlier, and I had a few thoughts.
What If, Abilities were gained through;

-Levels (Automatically gained Abilities)
|-Gaining Attribute Points to allocate Parameters or "Sphere Grid" kinda system

-Unique Weapon (Main-hand/Off-hand) Spiritbonding
|-Like FFXI I guess ? (Never played XI)

-Tomes and Art of War Books (Common ones are bought, rare ones are dropped)
|-Not all Skill would be learned through Books though, it'd be overpowered

-Titles Spiritbonding (Each Title would have 1 Permanent Ability) +20 HP or "Jump" ?
|-Permanent so that "Freedom" to choose title you like is still there (Spiritbonded)

-Progressing through the Story, Job Quest, etc
|-Just like the current Job Quests, but with "Main Story" included (Special Quests)

and then some of these would be "Free for All" or "Role Exclusive", +20 HP could be Free for all, but "Jump" would be "Dragoon Exclusive".

I can see it going something like this.

Gladiator ~ Swords + Great Swords
Paladin
Dark Knight

Archer ~ Bows
Ranger
Bard

Pugilist ~ Hand to hand weapons
Monk
Berserker/Puppet Master

Marauder Axes and Great Axes
Warrior
Viking

Lancer ~ Lances and 1 handed spears
Dragoon
Templar

Conjurer ~ Staves/etc
Whitemage
Elementalist/Geomancer/Green Mage

Thaumaturge ~ Rods/etc
Black Mage
Time Mage

Arcanist: ~ Books
Summoner
Scholar

Musketeer: ~ Pistols and Muskets
Corsair
Gunner

Cannoneer: ~ Cannons
Flintlock/Chemist
Machinist

Fencer ~ Fencing Swords
Red Mage
Mystic Knight

Flayer ~ Whips
Beastmaster
Blue Mage

Scout/Rogue/Assassin ~ Daggers
Thief
Juggler

Ronin/Parivir ~ Katanas and Great Katanas
Samurai
Ninja

DRK/Bersk coming from gladiator just sounds plain weird. Isnt DRK, SAM etc advanced jobs, that are based on multiple jobs anyways?
I think they could add a secondary weapon slot so; lets say you're glad, and wanna play a bit of elemental sword thing, so you got some spells in your build, then you could have a wand in 2nd slot (not shield slot) that you use when casting spells.
Gandalf is running around with Staff and sword for example; whacking goblins in the head with the staff, or casting spells; slicing up someones belly with sword.
DRG for example can use pug/archer skills, but some needs class specific weps; so then you could utilize more of them. Or would that make it to powerful?
I agree with that they need to change the system somehow, would be odd to start with a capped DRK or whatever; But depends on what it's based on. If it is its own class, with own skills etc, then it should start at lv1, if it's extension of WAR or something, i guess it's fine; and you unlock skills by quests.

Hadn't heard about Parivir before, it sounds awesome! me want! So many awesome classes and jobs <3

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Originally Posted by Andrien

what if it takes 2 sub classes to unlock a job.

I think musketeer is a class, and not a job too. who knows.

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Me too. I mean there is a guild for it. There tends to only be guilds for classes where as the jobs are an advanced form of your class. Or at least that is how I have perceived it to be. I could be wrong. O.o

Mmm second job for lancer..
It isn't FF-like but can it be... Hoplite--->lancer + gladiator

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

If this is of any use in theorycraft...

Adventurer (unarmed)
Fencing (rapier)
Enforcer (club)
Samurai (great katana)
Stavesman (Staff)
Flayer (whip)
Shepherd (herding)
Mystic (mysticism)
Assassin (dark arts)
Ninja (Katana?)
Thief (dagger?)
Dark Knight (???)

These are the classes (or jobs) that have been brought up at least once (to my knowledge) by either a press release or dev/rep post during v1.x .

I know many things have and will change, but this list could clue us in on what other roles they had been considering as classes (or jobs, was not specified) which could realistically be balanced with those that existed at 1.0 launch, which apart from sentinel going away, has not changed a great deal.

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Did they ever clarify as to what discipline Shepherd was listed under. When you look at the original chart that came out several months ago, the classes are grouped together by discipline it seems - herding being at the bottom under the DoL. I was wondering if anyone had any insight on that.

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http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...os/ffxiv_1.jpg

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Here's the chart again from a previous post.

from lancer I'd add a Job that is lance+shield and that would act as a mid-range tank (this is how I play Demons/Dark souls)

Why branch classes at all?

Just add new classes that nobody cares about to unlock jobs people actually wants, works too. besides, wouldn't branching classes just deny us the chance to level the new job from the start?

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

from lancer I'd add a Job that is lance+shield and that would act as a mid-range tank (this is how I play Demons/Dark souls)

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http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Templar_%28Job%29

Templar could be that 1 handed lance + shield job though SE would have to differ from the tactics advance series and give them access to shields natively.

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Originally Posted by Valan

Mmm second job for lancer..
It isn't FF-like but can it be... Hoplite--->lancer + gladiator

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Love the idea of a Hoplite/spartan lance + shield fast warrior (Prince Oberyn is one of my preferred characters in the Song of Ice and Fire).

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Templar_%28Job%29

Templar could be that 1 handed lance + shield job though SE would have to differ from the tactics advance series and give them access to shields natively.

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That would be good too, but I like more the above idea.

Liked a few ideas (Sorry I can't do them all!) Added them to the graphic:

#4 Revision:
Templar Job added to Lancer Class (Lance and Shield)
Dark Knight job moved to Gladitaor class (Switched with Berserker from Marauder)
Freelancer Class changed to Fencer Class
Parivir added as class.
Samurai added as job from Parivir.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2...ressionrev.jpg

I'll do another image with a 1-1 class-job ratio after this one.

Instead of Conjurer going to Green Mage, I suggest it be Time mage & White Mage

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Originally Posted by Lady

Instead of Conjurer going to Green Mage, I suggest it be Time mage & White Mage

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Any reason for time mage? I was thinking scholar should be there based on what Conjurer had in 1.0 for spells.
I think Con would have to be reworked heavily to add haste/slow and so on in order for it to go Con-> Time Mage.

Hope you reply ^^

i'd stick together the eastern jobs.

samurai and ninja as jobs.
and add a class with nunchakus like Selphie had in FF8 or the character from FF7:BC.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1bE9IHloyE...29_Artwork.jpg

could call the class Ashigaru (足軽, foot-soldiers in feudal japan)
or Nôhei (農兵, word for peasant army / peasant soldier).
not very known names tho.

or Karateka (空手家, "Black Belt", job class from FF III http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/B...Fantasy_III%29).
http://www.knnyt.zoomshare.com/album...70/midsize.jpg

could take some kind of Assassin as replacment for Ninja as 2nd job for the rogue.

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Gladiator ~ Swords + Great Swords
Paladin
Dark Knight

Archer ~ Bows
Ranger
Bard

Pugilist ~ Hand to hand weapons
Monk
Berserker/Puppet Master

Marauder Axes and Great Axes
Warrior
Viking

Lancer ~ Lances and 1 handed spears
Dragoon
Templar

Conjurer ~ Staves/etc
Whitemage
Elementalist/Geomancer/Green Mage

Thaumaturge ~ Rods/etc
Black Mage
Time Mage

Arcanist: ~ Books
Summoner
Scholar

Musketeer: ~ Pistols and Muskets
Corsair
Gunner

Connoneer: ~ Cannons
Flintlock/Chemist
Machinist

Fencer ~ Fencing Swords
Red Mage
Mystic Knight

Flayer ~ Whips
Beastmaster
Blue Mage

Scout/Rogue/Assassin ~ Daggers
Thief
Juggler

Ronin/Parivir ~ Katanas and Great Katanas
Samurai
Ninja

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Best list so far in my opinion.

However if they gonna give every class two jobs, i still don't know how this will work, because the jobs will share so many abilities from the class.
I think they should replace some of the ablities of the class to job abilities when switching to a job.

It's one of the big concerns i have about this game.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Any reason for time mage? I was thinking scholar should be there based on what Conjurer had in 1.0 for spells.
I think Con would have to be reworked heavily to add haste/slow and so on in order for it to go Con-> Time Mage.

Hope you reply ^^

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Based on how FFXIV 1.0 worked; Once you got your job at lvl 30, you got 5 job specific skills at various intervals between 30-50. Adding the time mage skills here would seem to fit in.
30- Slow
35-Gravity
40-Haste
45-Stop
50-Demi

Just an idea ^_^

Damn, can't figure right not anything for a 2nd job for Paravir..., was thinking about units in the Total War Shogun games but those fit better under other classes.

Edit: I think th Armory system could be much more complex, like having "advanced jobs" like if you have a lvl 40 mnk + a lvl 40 sam you can unlock the "Budoka" advanced job, or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Lady

Based on how FFXIV 1.0 worked; Once you got your job at lvl 30, you got 5 job specific skills at various intervals between 30-50. Adding the time mage skills here would seem to fit in.
30- Slow
35-Gravity
40-Haste
45-Stop
50-Demi

Just an idea ^_^

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uhm...isnt slow and gravity a bit of the same thing? Slow seems excessive with stop anyways. and gravity and demi is also same thing? I'd put Meteor as lv 50 skill instead :) throw in reflect somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

Damn, can't figure right not anything for a 2nd job for Paravir..., was thinking about units in the Total War Shogun games but those fit better under other classes.

Edit: I think th Armory system could be much more complex, like having "advanced jobs" like if you have a lvl 40 mnk + a lvl 40 sam you can unlock the "Budoka" advanced job, or something like that.

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isnt Paravir a 2nd job? it's weapon user, that has elemental skills too.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

uhm...isnt slow and gravity a bit of the same thing? Slow seems excessive with stop anyways. and gravity and demi is also same thing? I'd put Meteor as lv 50 skill instead :) throw in reflect somewhere.

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Nah slow would slow down attacks, gravity would slow down movement. But that was just a suggestion, I'm sure developers would have a better idea of what skills would balance the class.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

isnt Paravir a 2nd job? it's weapon user, that has elemental skills too.

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In the last chart above in this page it's set as a class, so I was commenting on that.

Parivir could be a job, but what class would lead to both Samurai and Parivir?

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Parivir could be a job, but what class would lead to both Samurai and Parivir?

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Kendoka maybe?

I was thinking Kenshi or Kendoka too. But if your trying to keep it FF-esc. Theres always Onion Knight and Freelancer too.

Bushido ? :D I have only read it once in a Manga, and It seems awesome :P

In FF tactics SAM needs lancer, pug, knight...so maybe switch knight to glad. So i guess GLD->SAM or LNC->SAM, since people were unsure about 2nd LNC Job...Both use 2h? ^^
But SAM feels a bit like MRD, so maybe have that instead of GLD. But then MRD would end up with multiple jobs.
Parivir has fighter as prereq. So maybe MRD, PUG, THM.
But dunno, both feel like seperate classes, that shouldn't be based on other class...
I mean Parivir is squishy and all, if it was based on GLD it'd have to much defensive capabilities; and not much less so if based on MRD...Maybe THM, since elemental skills is the basis of Parivir anyways.
Tactics was based on class trees anyways, so it makes it difficult to set-up this with XIV system, that isn't tree based...They were all their seperate classes, not just extension of each others.
Like to get SAM you'd need to do: Squire->Knight->Monk, Thief->Lancer.
Not to mention Mime: Squire->Knight->Monk->Geomancer, Thief->Lancer, Chemist->Priest->Oracle->Mediator, Chemist->Wizard->Time Mage->Summoner
So it would be a mess in XIV.
Also you'd end up a 50SAM if you already capped the other classes, which would be meh.

Or i guess they would need to add a new base class for both PAR and SAM. one that use 1h Katana, and another for 2h Katana. If SAM was based on GLD or MRD, there's be skills you couldn't use, cause they require sword/axe.
Maybe Ninja->Parivir, some Kendo class->Samurai

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Originally Posted by Radacci

In FF tactics SAM needs lancer, pug, knight...so maybe switch knight to glad. So i guess GLD->SAM or LNC->SAM, since people were unsure about 2nd LNC Job...Both use 2h? ^^
But SAM feels a bit like MRD, so maybe have that instead of GLD. But then MRD would end up with multiple jobs.
Parivir has fighter as prereq. So maybe MRD, PUG, THM.
But dunno, both feel like seperate classes, that shouldn't be based on other class...
I mean Parivir is squishy and all, if it was based on GLD it'd have to much defensive capabilities; and not much less so if based on MRD...Maybe THM, since elemental skills is the basis of Parivir anyways.
Tactics was based on class trees anyways, so it makes it difficult to set-up this with XIV system, that isn't tree based...They were all their seperate classes, not just extension of each others.
Like to get SAM you'd need to do: Squire->Knight->Monk, Thief->Lancer.
Not to mention Mime: Squire->Knight->Monk->Geomancer, Thief->Lancer, Chemist->Priest->Oracle->Mediator, Chemist->Wizard->Time Mage->Summoner

Also you'd end up a 50SAM if you already capped the other classes, which would be meh.

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Exactly thats why I don't think they'll have duo class. If they do add advanced classes they must add a basic class or you'll instantly have it max level the moment you get job crystal so it would be pretty cheap. The second class being a part of the classes doesn't matter so much. Since both ninja and samurai are of the east, I would assume one would be the sub class of the other since they can wield most of each others weapons...

Not a fan of arcanist into beastmaster.. the move doesn't seem natural.


Archanist into (Job2) Time Mage makes more sense in my mind.


What about this?

Class: Tamer (whips) : (Job1) -> Beastmaster (Job2) -> Dancer



Also, Samurai seems like it could be a 2nd job for Lancer.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Not a fan of arcanist into beastmaster.. the move doesn't seem natural.


Archanist into Time Mage makes more sense in my mind.


What about this?

Class: Tamer (whips) : (Job1) -> Beastmaster (Job2) -> Dancer

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I like that. Does beastmaster or dancer use whips in any other FF?

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I like that. Does beastmaster or dancer use whips in any other FF?

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FFV I believe, let me check ... Here it is

If you consider Quistis (FFVII) a Blue Mage, she used whips as well, but I prefer BLU with Scimitars ala. FFV and FFXI.

Also, consider that Jobs can have different weapons than their base Class as proven by the Relic Weapons (they auto-equip the required Job soul). This opens up quite a few possibilities for future growth