Alpha First Look: Video 8 – Instanced Dungeons

Very nice. The music of course is great, and it seems combat is action packed which is also great. Now I'm hoping to see some limit breaks soon!

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Dungeon looks well put together. Can't wait to try it out. I wonder if there will be background music along with the battle theme. I understand it is alpha and may not be in there for now. If so, I wonder if dungeons will get their own theme, or will have one set theme like the old FFXIV.

Also, is a timer really necessary now? Not many other MMO's practice this in instanced dungeons. Some people like to take time to figure things out instead of being bound by a timer. Speed run can be calculated without it and since speed runs don't determine reward anymore, I don't see the need for the timer at all. Again, this may be there for alpha purposes only, but that is simply my take on the timer.

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Yah, the timer needs to go. Now I can see timers being needed in some dungeons(if story warrants it). But not all of them. Unless the timers have to do with the instance mechanic they set up and there being a limited number of instances available per dungeon. This would eliminate people sitting up in dungeons doing nothing but afk... then I see its purpose.

..but as someone stated, its for solving the puzzles, which is a very cool idea. Bring on the timers.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Oh hey, there's that generic battle system again. Here's hoping for some significant "revision."

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To the one complaining about battle system looking like the norm:
-The UI is not going to change, click'n on a action bar to do something is never going away. If this is your "copying from WoW" argument. EverQuest had this and so did Dark age of Camelot. There are other mmo's too that used this before World of Warcraft came out.

Besides that everything I see is of FF/SE quality, from the animations to the special effects to the live orchestrated music.

We have yet to play with, the more original ideas, of Yoshi's team(and that belongs to them):
-Limit Break system(party initiated)

-their take on a Combo system(single user usage)

-their take on Combo system(1-3 other players)

-I wish for Skill chains. hopefully they will bring this in. Battle Regimens was supposed to be this.

-We have 4+ other classes that have not be added yet. And the beta is still not going to add them, we still won't have full battle aspects shown until phase 4 probably.

Go watch a low level game play for World of Warcraft. Then watch one of these alpha videos. I see no similarities in them one bit. I see nothing taken from WoW, as WoW did not invent the UI wheel, nor did WoW invent the clicking of an action bar to perform an action. That prize would actually go to the first mmo to actually utilize those features.

I can tell you are a young buck, and that goes for anyone using World of Warcraft as a symbolism of originality. <--- I laugh at you.

History lesson for you:
Ultima Online (UO)released on 24 September 1997<-- this game set the stage for all other mmo that would come to PC. Creator even coined the phrase 'MMOG'

EverQuest released on March 16, 1999

Dark Age of Camelot(DAoC)released on October 10, 2001

Final Fantasy XI on May 16, 2002/NA October 28 2003

World of Warcraft(WoW) released on November 23, 2004

Its not about what a person claims to be a dainty battle system. No more, MMO's from here on out are about the draw, and what makes an individual player want to stay and keep playing that particular game. Only mmo's with high draw rate will become a success.

I already have my draw, for this game. From the amazing graphics/draw distance, orchestrated in-game music, animations of my avatar, and the fact that its a FF base mmo, taken aspects from FF12, 3, 7, 11, 6, 1 & the fan base. So you go ahead and not play because you have to click on bars/macro's <---- I laugh at you.

FinalFantasy:A Realm Reborn is going to own the mmo scene for 2013... I'm calling it now. And I said it first.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

...and it seems combat is action packed which is also great. Now I'm hoping to see some limit breaks soon!

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Being the operative word.

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Originally Posted by Rustyhagun

~snip~.

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Couldn't have said it better myself ...after FFXIV:ARR launches MMOs will be "FFXIV-clone" LAWL

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Not for me huh? Clearly from a few posts, you some random guy on the internet has a total grasp on what I like and dislike. You like it, that's fine. There are people who dislike the core of this system based on what has been shown. Hoping for revisions (and there will be) isn't a bad thing. Telling, or advising people to go play something else is a sure way to make this game fall on yet another sword and die.

Also read my above post again. I said "We ALL" will be playing another game IF XIV fails.

Key word: IF.

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You're one of those inherently negative people. If you have no constructive feedback, then go elsewhere. I think that's what Warlock is getting at.

The time limit is the only thing I don't want to see for the dungeons. It should be an elapsed time ticking up, not down to failure.

Maybe if it were a situation where a bomb will explode or a hostage will get killed if you dont make it there in time, but not the same ol 1hr time limit just cuz.

And I just noticed the cast bar in the party window is covering the casters name. That should get changed too. They could slightly space the players in the list apart more and put the bar over the name instead of replacing it.

Someone stated its only a time limit for solving the puzzles in the dungeons. If true, then that's OK with me.

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Originally Posted by PinkamenaDiane

Can someone please explain to me why FFXIV 1.0's slow battle system with long cooldowns on almost every ability was so appealing to you people who hate the new faster paced battle system?

Honestly I hated the battle system in 1.0 it was too slow and it felt like a lot of sitting around waiting for auto attack to fill TP.

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The thing I dislike about the standard fast-paced combat like the ones in WoW, Rift, and ARR is that it usually becomes a "focus on spamming your rotation and dodge boss mechanics" kind of play-style. I find it more fun if you have to pay attention to what your party members are doing as well, and respond according to what skills they use or what situation they get stuck in. Of course you can still kind of do this in longer boss fights with a fast-paced combat system, but I find it either becomes less important or too difficult to do because you have to pay too much attention to your own fast rotations. There's also the fact that it's really difficult to tell what skills your party members are using in ARR. In 1.0 this wasn't the case.

Fast-paced combat systems also make fighting normal mobs incredibly boring imo. "Oh it just put a buff on itself. Oh well I'll just kill it and not worry about it." A lot of people here seem to have a lot of hate for FFXI's battle system, but the exping in that game was so fun imo because you had to actually pay attention even on normal fights. Dangerous abilities that needed to be stunned, buffs that actually had to be dispelled, and coordinating with party members to set up skillchains/magic bursts. Yea the battle system was slow, but the exping was 100x more fun than doing quests that require no focus at all.

The timer makes total sense beyond the puzzles. It regulates and keeps instances from being over populated and becoming laggy.....:cool: Anyone going into one goes in knowing they have a limited amount of time to finish thus avoiding afk and making dungeons more enjoyable.

A freaking mind flayer. Hell yeah.

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Originally Posted by Shiggysonson

The thing I dislike about the standard fast-paced combat like the ones in WoW, Rift, and ARR is that it usually becomes a "focus on spamming your rotation and dodge boss mechanics" kind of play-style. I find it more fun if you have to pay attention to what your party members are doing as well, and respond according to what skills they use or what situation they get stuck in. Of course you can still kind of do this in longer boss fights with a fast-paced combat system, but I find it either becomes less important or too difficult to do because you have to pay too much attention to your own fast rotations. There's also the fact that it's really difficult to tell what skills your party members are using in ARR. In 1.0 this wasn't the case.

Fast-paced combat systems also make fighting normal mobs incredibly boring imo. "Oh it just put a buff on itself. Oh well I'll just kill it and not worry about it." A lot of people here seem to have a lot of hate for FFXI's battle system, but the exping in that game was so fun imo because you had to actually pay attention even on normal fights. Dangerous abilities that needed to be stunned, buffs that actually had to be dispelled, and coordinating with party members to set up skillchains/magic bursts. Yea the battle system was slow, but the exping was 100x more fun than doing quests that require no focus at all.

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Um... You still have to pay attention. You just have to move faster.

FFXI's battle system was and is far FAR too slow no matter how you swing it. You're still able to do the exact same stuff in FFXIV; buff, debuff, react to party, etc. in FFXIV. Again, you just have to move faster. All it is is enemy and player balance that will make the battle last longer, not action speeds.

I really like the music. I would love to hear the full last one, it was from the trailer right? :)

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Originally Posted by Zaiyah

The timer makes total sense beyond the puzzles. It regulates and keeps instances from being over populated and becoming laggy.....:cool: Anyone going into one goes in knowing they have a limited amount of time to finish thus avoiding afk and making dungeons more enjoyable.

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That was only a problem with 1.0 servers. instance population should be a non issue with the newer servers. No other MMO ive played had an issue with instance population either.

Specifically ones where istances are populated like a beast, like WoW, dont even have this issue nor have time limits because of it.

Having a countdown timer is gonna make the dungeons still feel like a speed race. Sick of those.

Battle system is still more fun than 1.0.... Is kinda weird that the ppl that are so vocal about this new system, were not as vocal about 1.0s system...

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Originally Posted by alexhatesmil

You guys are so busy arguing about the battle system that nobody noticed Cthulu is the boss of that dungeon.

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Nah it's not, it's just a mind flayer, for Cthulu you will need to play another MMO (well at least a Starborn anyway and it about 40ft of pure hate).

As far as the battle system goes this is all sub 20 stuff, it's how they get you used to the game and learn how it all works. then we will see 20+ in Beta and Yoshi-P has said it will be different as you level up with more stuff added to the way you fight mobs.

So by all means go off your nuts over the learning the game fighting system if you like, but I will wait for Beta to see how it will be.

oh nice, the boss music is the same from the Limit Break trailer, awesome

This is only alpha testing. Please give the devs time before you form an opinion without even playing. The battle system is good, but need some tweaks. I'm sure the testers made suggestions about this and I do believe this will be address by the start of beta testing.

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Originally Posted by Oriana

it sux super easy nothing that make me stay up played the alpha and by 1 hr i was falling sleep game still need work if they want to make it better still sux looks better and thats all

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Your explanation is too short (and hard to read) to be constructive

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Dungeon looks well put together. Can't wait to try it out. I wonder if there will be background music along with the battle theme. I understand it is alpha and may not be in there for now. If so, I wonder if dungeons will get their own theme, or will have one set theme like the old FFXIV.

Also, is a timer really necessary now? Not many other MMO's practice this in instanced dungeons. Some people like to take time to figure things out instead of being bound by a timer. Speed run can be calculated without it and since speed runs don't determine reward anymore, I don't see the need for the timer at all. Again, this may be there for alpha purposes only, but that is simply my take on the timer.

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Although I am forbidden to speak of anything in the Alpha from the NDA I WILL say that I played this dungeon in Alpha a bunch of times and it is VERY fun! And I am sure Square will tweak it and make it even better when the game launches. ALSO this dungeon is LOWER LVL and I am sure the higher lvl ones will be even more fun and challenging!

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Originally Posted by Oriana

it sux super easy nothing that make me stay up played the alpha and by 1 hr i was falling sleep game still need work if they want to make it better still sux looks better and thats all

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Alpha wasnt about gameplay at all really, just the bare basics and was about STRESS TESTING and lag etc. Wait until Beta to start making harsher judgements. Please and thanks :)

If the timer is in fact an optional task, then it should say so. By completing it it should grant bonus stuff. Its optional so it shouldn't matter if you fail it.

Example 1: Optional Task: Defeat "NM name": 45:00
Example 2: Optional Task: Solve Extra Puzzle: 30:00

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Originally Posted by RoninDarkchild

Battle system is still more fun than 1.0.... Is kinda weird that the ppl that are so vocal about this new system, were not as vocal about 1.0s system...

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To me the2.0 tp regeneration seems like early 1.0 stamina system. You wear it down and then the rest of the fight you are waiting on slow tp regen which you will have no control over. People really need to take their blinders off.

Does anyone else think there are just too many flashing lights going on with each and every battle action? I could barely tell what was going on. I'm all for the eye candy, but this was seisure inducing. Maybe I'm just getting too old lol!

The dungeon environment looks very well and nicely put together. The fights seems xiv standard like before. I'm hoping for a bit more action and movement. The lancer tanking things is not a big deal to me seeing as how the mobs are low level. Can't wait for the full system to come out!

Aw they stopped at the battle... and they didn't show how the loot system worked...

Aren't those two things kinda important???

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Aw they stopped at the battle... and they didn't show how the loot system worked...

Aren't those two things kinda important???

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I think these videos are intended to be little teasers and not fully documenting the entire play experience. Honestly with all the changes that Beta will surely go through I can see them keeping the videos a little on the ambiguous side.

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Originally Posted by Yelta_Sumasu

I think these videos are intended to be little teasers and not fully documenting the entire play experience. Honestly with all the changes that Beta will surely go through I can see them keeping the videos a little on the ambiguous side.

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We already have a run around and kill stuff video though. But how are you not going to show the loot system, that's part of the experience that everyone looks forward to... sure skip the fight but show that, we already have like a billion threads on it.

Looks great! Huge improvement on what we had with 1.0 for these locations.

Also I am loving the WHM Staff, same style as the one used by Louisoix.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

We already have a run around and kill stuff video though. But how are you not going to show the loot system, that's part of the experience that everyone looks forward to... sure skip the fight but show that, we already have like a billion threads on it.

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This was the run around and kill stuff in an instance. Also it's Alpha and I suspect the full loot system probably isn't as shiny and sparkly as they want yet and didn't show it.

I do agree that when it is in a state of "good enough to show" they better damn well show it off since it is one of the things players and potential players want.

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Originally Posted by Yelta_Sumasu

This was the run around and kill stuff in an instance. Also it's Alpha and I suspect the full loot system probably isn't as shiny and sparkly as they want yet and didn't show it.

I do agree that when it is in a state of "good enough to show" they better damn well show it off since it is one of the things players and potential players want.

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That doesn't make sense. THe battle system is admittedly undergoing a significant revision but they showed 3 different videos of the battle system There's no reason not to show the loot system

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Typical Zezlar post:

Step 1) Short, snarky remark about how terrible the game is looking.

Step 2) Reply to each and every reply to previous Step 1 post in a mildly long-winded, but easily just as snarky remark. Be sure to use spell-check in order to make grammar as pristine as possible.

Step 3) Repeat Step 2, but try to fit in variations of saying "this is only my opinion, but my opinion is right" each time in order to seem more credible.

Step 4) Fail at sounding credible by continuing to be sarcastic and negative the whole time anyway.

Step 5) Feign victory to boost self-esteem. Still become unlikable, but don\\'t care.

Step 6) Continue to play the game you apparently highly dislike. Continue to complain about how bad it is, but still play it. Admit to no one you secretly love it. Don\\'t want to ruin that perfect public image you have.




Oh, and the video was awesome too. Loved the battle music rising up against the Soulflayer.

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Yeah Zez and Elexia should def head over to Rokiens house and they can all make out in between posting.

Anyone here knows how much and where in USA the 25th anniversary package can be bought? :D

Everything they fight in the video looks like it belongs in a dungeon. That alone makes me very excited, as I was often confused and bored by some of the mobs that were chosen in 1.0 to be on the open dungeons. Pretty sweet video.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

That doesn't make sense. THe battle system is admittedly undergoing a significant revision but they showed 3 different videos of the battle system There's no reason not to show the loot system

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The loot system is need, greed or pass. The timer is there because a timer is slapped onto the dungeon to give you a time limit, nothing uncommon in MMOs or FF games.

Its not uncommon or common.... its rare. I haven't played a single other MMO where there is a time limit the moment you enter the dungeon. There may be time limited events in some of them, but never a kick-you-out-of-dungeon limit.

How crappily small are ARR's raids going to be if they slap a 1hr limit on them all?

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Originally Posted by Reika

Its not uncommon or common.... its rare. I haven't played a single other MMO where there is a time limit the moment you enter the dungeon. There may be time limited events in some of them, but never a kick-you-out-of-dungeon limit.

How crappily small are ARR's raids going to be if they slap a 1hr limit on them all?

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You must only play main stream MMOs then, because it's really not that rare to see one that has a timer on a dungeon, especially ones that are part of a daily/weekly/hourly recharge/invite period.

How "small" they are is really irrelevant since using your words, it's rare to see an MMO with a lengthy dungeon since people, especially in this community, seem to hate the concept of anything lasting or taking "a long time" and by long meaning more than 30 minutes.

Remember, the timer has no significance to anything beyond wanting an achievement for that dungeon.

Main stream as in....?

I'm not too fond of the timer myself and so were all of my friends. I don't mind timers when it comes to instanced boss fights like in FFXI. Because you only have the boss. But I'm not too fond of a timer for an entire dungeon run. I prefer to explore the dungeons at my own pace, chatting with my party members, goofing around and enjoy the sights.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

To me the2.0 tp regeneration seems like early 1.0 stamina system. You wear it down and then the rest of the fight you are waiting on slow tp regen which you will have no control over. People really need to take their blinders off.

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But you have some sort of control over it. There are skills which give you TP back.

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Originally Posted by Vydos

I'm not too fond of the timer myself and so were all of my friends. I don't mind timers when it comes to instanced boss fights like in FFXI. Because you only have the boss. But I'm not too fond of a timer for an entire dungeon run. I prefer to explore the dungeons at my own pace, chatting with my party members, goofing around and enjoy the sights.

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I think it's important to understand why a timer is implemented in the first place. First, it's to absolutely ensure there are not erroneous instances being maintained for AFK players, or players who just want to hang out in the zone for awhile. This is to improve the quality of the experience for other players. Second, as a matter of balance, if there were no timer associated with these dungeons, groups would have an unlimited number of time and attempts to fight bosses. One unavoidable outcome from this is certain strategies being developed that would take advantage of this and make the mechanics of the bosses themselves irrelavent. Rather than implement something to deal with this specifically, a timer is far more effecient at handling multiple issues that arise. And with most dungeons, a plentiful amount of time has been given.

In addition, there is no rule that states the time allotted for the dungeon cannot be used for pure exploration instead of for dealing with the bosses. It's a simple choice you could make, as long as you can get friends to agree with your choice.

Like i said, other mmo's have no problems having a great deal of parties in instances, so timers, the whole afk thing, etc is only for POS servers that were 1.0. They said when they released darkhold that the time limit was because the number of parties that could be in the instance at a time was limited. you can add whatever other reasons for the timer all you want, but they said no other thing than that.

I can't expect a lot of ARR's grand new architecture if they cant do what the old fogey mmo's can do with instances and still have limits to how many parties can be in the instance at a time, and I'm not expecting a whole lot of adventure from ARR dungeons if they are going to keep the time limits, just a whole lota hurry up.

And... the only real difference I can see from that video between 1.0 dungeon and ARR dungeon is that now the objectives for getting the loot are shown to you now like a quest tracker, instead of making you find out if you did everything you needed to do by how many chests you got at the end.