Dedicated Servers?

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

Hmm small amount of players... like trying to get the 500k players of FFXI into XIV... for example?

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FFXI does not have 500k players.

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Originally Posted by Thebard

Well the OP's idea is never going to happen but it would be fun to have a server that existing characters cannot join, new characters only.

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We get this with ARR. They are called "new servers" ^^

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Originally Posted by Felis

We get this with ARR. They are called "new servers" ^^

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Hmmm idk if new servers will exclude existing characters.

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Originally Posted by Thebard

Hmmm idk if new servers will exclude existing characters.

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They will this has been confirmed by Yoshi-P during live letter and by community reps in several threads.

Sorry. This is a terrible idea. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Third wasn't a charm

Scattering the population between a lot of different server types only serves to fragment the community. Server division between regions and new/old players is already a terrible idea and scattering the community even further between several different server types is even worse.

Anything beyond a roleplay server is just a waste of server farm space.

This is NOT an FPS. MMORPGs are strongly based on their communities. A fragmented community is a bad community.

This time i have to totally agree with Abriael, cause if you split up the community it would be almost impossible to bring them together again. And all those servers with a very small population would die in a few months.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Sorry. This is a terrible idea. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Third wasn't a charm

Scattering the population between a lot of different server types only serves to fragment the community. Server division between regions and new/old players is already a terrible idea and scattering the community even further between several different server types is even worse.

Anything beyond a roleplay server is just a waste of server farm space.

This is NOT an FPS. MMORPGs are strongly based on their communities. A fragmented community is a bad community.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

This time i have to totally agree with Abriael, cause if you split up the community it would be almost impossible to bring them together again. And all those servers with a very small population would die in a few months.

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Well it would depend on how many players you have, right? If the game is successful, and we all want it to be, there should be enough people playing it for this fragmentation to not matter, because the hardcore will have their community, the casual other (or whatever server differentiation should be made), and everyone would be happy.

If you assume the game will have few players, then I don't even know why are you guys bothering on supporting it, but as Yoshi said in a letter or an interview, when taking the FFXIV project there were 2 options: Let it die or bet on it all the way, and they bet on it all the way. Obviously something like this won't be of much use if only a small population plays ARR, but that's not the correct mindset.

Even if alot ppl would play ARR, there would be still not enough ppl for silly Servers like low exp or high droprates. And those ppl would have to reroll if they would like to play with all the others cause they can't be allowed to transfer.

And its just wront to think if you make servers with death penalty and slow exp all FFXI vets would come, they want FFXI 2.0 and nothing else. And alot of FFXI players are happy about death penalty not coming back and possiblity to exp better then it was pre ToAU.

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I don't understand how hard is to grasp the concept, because all I've read is people complaining at the examples given, well, as just that, an example.

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Then he needs to come up with better examples. Because they are already considering RP servers (which is a good idea and is wanted by the community).

Only if the game really takes off and the playerbase grows, then I can see adding new servers with special rules and stuff. otherwise, either there won't be enough people interested in them or it will divide the community.

If a lot of people want low exp maybe (cuz never happens XD) SE will reduce exp for all.. not just for 1 server >.< (it's an extremization).. an MMORPG isn't a FPS.. can't have the same server cuz is a waste and a nosense..

High/Low Drop% ... can't be applied
High/Low Exp% ... can't be applied
High/Low Monster ... Why if EXP don't change? XD
PVP oriented ... FFXIV is PVE oriented, PVP is just an hobby.. never change.

Others type of servers?

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PVP oriented ... FFXIV is PVE oriented, PVP is just an hobby.. never change.

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This is actually false. Though it's not going to be open world PvP, PvP is going to be much bigger in this game than it was in FFXI. Due to the design of the lore and story though, an open PvP server doesn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This is actually false. Though it's not going to be open world PvP, PvP is going to be much bigger in this game than it was in FFXI. Due to the design of the lore and story though, an open PvP server doesn't make any sense.

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I'm going off topic with this comment but... i'd flee to the Garlean empire if given the chance =P

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Sorry. This is a terrible idea. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Third wasn't a charm

Scattering the population between a lot of different server types only serves to fragment the community. Server division between regions and new/old players is already a terrible idea and scattering the community even further between several different server types is even worse.

Anything beyond a roleplay server is just a waste of server farm space.

This is NOT an FPS. MMORPGs are strongly based on their communities. A fragmented community is a bad community.

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It really all depends how it is implemented and How successful this game is Post-Launch ( after the honeymoon Period). I'm thinking SE thinks that this game is 99.9% going to be a success that having dedicated servers wouldn't be much of an issue. If the game is a Success, then it wouldn't really matter if they separate us by region or not.

How they implement it is another issue. If they happen to be successful then it doesn't matter how they would implement it, but if the game is lacking in certain regions then either:

A) they revert back to Japan severs ( which from what we were told is still good and alot better than 1.0)

B) They implement it in a way that You being in the Region server you reside from and still be able to play with people around the world.

Seeing how Alpha turned out so well, and itching to find out have Beta will be. I feel that How they implement it won't matter much, as long as the servers are smooth and the game is Successful I don't mind that they are Dedicated. but if the game is not so hot I would want them to make it so that the game is more populated therefore taking option B.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

Well it would depend on how many players you have, right? If the game is successful, and we all want it to be, there should be enough people playing it for this fragmentation to not matter, because the hardcore will have their community, the casual other (or whatever server differentiation should be made), and everyone would be happy.

If you assume the game will have few players, then I don't even know why are you guys bothering on supporting it, but as Yoshi said in a letter or an interview, when taking the FFXIV project there were 2 options: Let it die or bet on it all the way, and they bet on it all the way. Obviously something like this won't be of much use if only a small population plays ARR, but that's not the correct mindset.

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No. I assume nothing. The idea of splitting servers in many little rulesets, different regions and to segregate old players from the new is terrible whether there are 200k players of four million.

The more you splinter the community, the more you create situations in which people have to bend over twice in order to play with their friends, because every one of those friends has his own ruleset of choice, his own region (who really has friends only in his own region?) and his own friends pulling him towards other servers (and those friends have their own friends and so forth).

Other developers (like funcom with the awesome server tech implemented in TSW, that lets you travel to any server at will, at any given time, or Zenymax with the megaserver tech that will be implemented in TESO) are making server segregation obsolete, and it's really a pity to see that SE is taking a step back by going against the flow with segregated regional servers.

Of course those that implement server-joining techs have to give up the income from server transfers, but hey, some time giving up income to make things a LOT more convenient for your players isn't a bad thing.

The internet is becoming more and more a globalized community. Situation like the one I describe below should really never happen anymore:

Player 1: Hey, you're fun, we should play together.
Player 2: Sure what server are you on?
Player 1: Gungnir
Player 2: Oh crap, I'm on Ridill
Player 1: Can you transfer?
Player 2: Most of my friends are on Ridill...
Player 1: Eh, most of mine are on Gungnir...
Player 2: oh, well... maybe in the next game then.

It's obsolete, unnecessary, has absolutely no positive side (besides a paltry income from transfers), it's absolutely inconvenient, and terribad for community building.

But anyway, bad to dedicated servers, they simply will not happen. Ever. The more you split the ruleset, the more you raise development costs and times. Every patch would need to be adapted and playtested to every ruleset, which is simply not feasible. Thus, this discussion is pretty moot, as the request is unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This is actually false. Though it's not going to be open world PvP, PvP is going to be much bigger in this game than it was in FFXI. Due to the design of the lore and story though, an open PvP server doesn't make any sense.

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Not False, of course PVP seems will be much bigger than XI but still not the main content like others game. Coliseum will be just an hobby for who want and the frontier (that we don't know anything) will be the only mass pvp will be in game.

So for this reason FFXIV still remain PVE oriented, with some PVP just for fun ^^

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Except for role play (which they are considering) all of those ideas are silly. high/low drop servers? who the hell would play on a low drop server?

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http://i3.minus.com/jbvYznyr0WG1Nc.jpg
I might.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

http://i3.minus.com/jbvYznyr0WG1Nc.jpg
I might.

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We will play already on a low drop% server u.u
btw image link broken :p

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Originally Posted by Abriael

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Well you are entitled with your own opinion, I don't like where computing today is going and thus hate the globalization, so I'd very much prefer compact, small but strong communities (like the good old FFXI servers), rather than stuff like WoW or hell, even outside games, Facebook (oh god I'd burn and destroy Facebook and twitter to the ground so hard...) where individuality is completely lost in a huge community.

So what if I want to play on a different server than my friends? I'll make new friends then, and build a strong community. And contrary on what you think, it's most likely to help build communities having a few people tightly tied, than large amounts of people where you never cross paths with anyone twice in the whole game. So your idea for community building is worse than this "terribad" (aren't you supposed to be a reporter? why don't you write in English?) idea.

And about the development costs and times and patch testing, well, I happen to know a little about software development and balancing systems, and I will tell you that if you are not able to test thousands of different configurations for your system in short times, you are doing something terribly wrong. And I'm pretty sure Yoshida and Square Enix have a long experience balancing games, so no, if the core of the game is well defined and the different rule sets only affect the context, they probably wouldn't even have to balance anything new for every new patch.

Also if you think this topic is moot and has no value, why even waste effort in arguing about it?

Also on a side note, I liked your posts at first Abriel, but lately you started being more and more arrogant and aggressive and, well, plain rude in the forums. I think you should get down your high horse and live with the mortals again, you don't know the answer to everything and probably most of what you think is wrong, just like what everyone thinks is probably wrong (including myself). Starlord's signature reflects this too so, man, chill a little and come back to the nice conversations and posts you provided some weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by Momita

We will play already on a low drop% server u.u
btw image link broken :p

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Really? Looks fine on my end.
The site I have it on seems to work fine too.

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Originally Posted by Momita

We will play already on a low drop% server u.u
btw image link broken :p

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Really? Looks fine on my end.
The site I have it on seems to work fine too.

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if it's the signature pic, I see it allright too.

So Gramul, would you be up for something like this, or how do you consider this idea?

Setting the personal jabs aside, since they're amusing but tend to become tiresome in the end...

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

I don't like big communities!

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Then don't play a MASSIVELY Multiplayer Online RPG.

Mind you, you're perfectly able to create your little tightly knit community regardless of the number of people on the server or with access to the server. That's what linkshells and free companies are for.

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So your idea for community building is worse than this "terribad" (aren't you supposed to be a reporter? why don't you write in English?) idea.

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Because at the moment I'm not working (and English is not my first language anyway, mind you, not that it matters)?

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And about the development costs and times and patch testing, well, I happen to know a little about software development and balancing systems, and I will tell you that if you are not able to test thousands of different configurations for your system in short times, you are doing something terribly wrong. And I'm pretty sure Yoshida and Square Enix have a long experience balancing games, so no, if the core of the game is well defined and the different rule sets only affect the context, they probably wouldn't even have to balance anything new for every new patch.

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You know a little about software development of MMORPGs? I'm afraid it's not the same thing. MMORPGs are extremely complex animals, with thousands of elements interacting with each other.

If you aren't able to "test thousands of different configurations for your system in short times" you're simply developing something more complex than a database.

There's a reason why MMORPGs are released with a massive amount of glitches and problems compared to other games. And that reason resides in their complexity, that impacts balancing, testing and every other area of development in a rather large way.

But again. This thread is definitely moot. I know it won't happen. You know it won't happen. The OP knows it won't happen. And it's ultimately a very good thing that it won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Setting the personal jabs aside, since they're amusing but tend to become tiresome in the end...

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It was not a personal jab, it was a honest advise so posting in the Lodestone get's overall better and constructive.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Then don't play a MASSIVELY Multiplayer Online RPG.

Mind you, you're perfectly able to create your little tightly knit community regardless of the number of people on the server or with access to the server. That's what linkshells and free companies are for.

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5000 people for each server is massive for any game world and it can help create a good community, but having a mega-server or something among those lines with 25k+ people makes it harder. And I think it's easier to build a good LS when the overall community is smaller and the game content is harder than in a casual environment with thousands of people, but to each it's own.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You know a little about software development of MMORPGs? I'm afraid it's not the same thing. MMORPGs are extremely complex animals, with thousands of elements interacting with each other.

If you aren't able to "test thousands of different configurations for your system in short times" you're simply developing something more complex than a database.

There's a reason why MMORPGs are released with a massive amount of glitches and problems compared to other games. And that reason resides in their complexity, that impacts balancing, testing and every other area of development in a rather large way.

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I work with systems way more complex than MMO's daily, and I assure you those are not just databases, so I know quite well how all the processes involved in developing, deploying, configuring, testing and teaching to use any given system involve, this is why I tell you, if SE knows their stuff, and I'm pretty sure they know, if they do this they will do it all right. I could start a long techie post as why I think this won't involve much effort and cost development even when delivering new content, but I don't think much people could appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

But again. This thread is definitely moot. I know it won't happen. You know it won't happen. The OP knows it won't happen. And it's ultimately a very good thing that it won't happen.

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And because it won't happen it's not worth discussing? What happens with freedom of speech man! If you don't like this, don't read it and don't comment on it. It's not right that OP had to put this in his thread:

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

so thought i'd throw out an idea i had, this will be my 3rd thread and my last 2 were a flunk and this one probably will be as well lol. but i figure maybe it's a good idea that people would like to see.

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i'ma probably have like 4players in this thread at all and they will all say they hate the idea like my other 2 ideas lmao but i figure this has got to be a really good idea and concept that all mmo's can take a step back and look at as being part of any mmo. what you guys think? would you like this or no and why the heck not?

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lol sorry this became huge wall of text, was sleep when half the pages went threw and i'm just adding my thing about most of them.

there's only 2 reasons i can think of that it wouldn't happen with newer mmo's. 1. the devs know that the mmo's they release are mediocre compared to the ones they used to provide us even 10years ago. or 2. it's not that the servers will be empty, personally i think they will succeed and the reality is the normal servers will die out faster. when you take the players willing to play in slower progression servers out the equation your left with basically the players that no matter how easy or quick the game play is they wait for others to put things together for them.

either way the idea that dividing us is bad as a community is buttkis, reality check they are still doing this. it's called the game is going f2p and half or more of the community quit the mmo all together. everyone is looking for a game to play long term or they are just locus just running threw it and will quit anyway. choices only give a mmo more people to satisfy and more subs to gain from. your diluted in mind if you think a server that has even half my suggested changes wouldn't be a full server. those ideas are basically the soul of what ffxi was. they don't need to be all or any of those but i think SE as a company would know what type of players play mmo's and what they want right? or do they? or do they care? the difference in creating a mmo with and without this idea is keeping tons of players. who is to say witch type of servers would do the best? obviously the devs keep making games that go f2p so obviously they don't. and it's the players that keep leaving though they are getting exactly what they want, so they don't either. and lol that is another side thought. if ffxiv fails the mmo world finally knows for a fact that people on these forums don't know what they want or what they are talking about and devs should never listen to them as much as they did here. lol. oh lastly on segregation, how does having to play a mmo for years rather then quit in 6months segregate rather then build. ffxi had the best community i have ever ever had in any mmo and ffxiv comes second to that.

how can people say only the RP server is needed? why would you get what you want? lol, also check any pvp thread and every other person says this, as long as pvp doesn't effect me. and yes in ffxiv pvp won't effect you, but in a lot of mmo's it could and they separate servers "just for you!". you don't want to die while you solo or whatever, i don't want to solo, period, i don't want fast progression, period. why not a server that adds this? there is no reason to not less you think it will change your game play. and that is just selfish. what is the worst that happens they have to close half the servers? lol "oh wait" that is every mmo anyway.

and it doesn't necessarily need to segregate us, longer progression servers can still autogroup with other servers for content if wanted. and as for not being able to transfer your account to those from easier server type that just means it probably took you what a month to level. it shouldn't be a problem to have 2 accounts ..they can give us 1 free account on all servers. what have you. either way what do you think all solo play does? it segragates, auto grouping also ruins lots of guilds/linkshell community grouping up together but that's there too. it's mentality here folks not that anything i have suggested is wrong or bad idea.

also i do agree, no servers is better then many. i love the idea of 1 mega server for mmo's and freely going to any of them. but it won't destroy my game play and enjoyment less it's regional division. "ohh wait" ... also i dunno about others but i'd pay an extra few bucks a month to play on a dedicated server, so this can be a way to try this out and make a few bucks too. though that is just me.

though your all right i don't even think something like this will happen, but as every mmo for "another" 10 years fails and goes f2p then i can sit on my high horse and say i told you so. there is a reason why tv shows get canceled every other minute, they aren't a quick 2hour movie. you have to watch every week(aka our subs) and you can't please the numbers they want for them cause we are all different ...and yeah they can keep making the quick bucks off the majority but it will never be a successful mmo that way. in reality the devs are probably only on one true mission right now and that is to get as many people and as much of the rmt cash flow into there pockets.

they don't care about nitch mmo's or the people they have pushed to the side. there are mmo's being made at kickstarter.com ..there is one that made almost 4million dollars in donations http://eternity.obsidian.net/ 73.986 backers in a few months to make that 4.3 million to create a mmo type that isn't being made any more these days. though it's not quit what i was looking for (ffxi'ish) it just shows how many are out there that want what we are not getting. so in the end, weather this can be an option for a mmo company or not, it's not cause there isn't the people that support it.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

It was not a personal jab, it was a honest advise so posting in the Lodestone get's overall better and constructive.

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It was a personal jab. And since you imply a change in my way of expressing myself, that never happened, also a not very realistic one. I always expressed concepts in a very direct, straightforward and clear cut way (without insulting and personally attacking anyone. Some do feel quite dumb after I dismantle their arguments, but that's not really my fault) and that never changed. Some can take it. Some cannot. That's life. Anyway. Moving on.

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5000 people for each server is massive for any game world and it can help create a good community, but having a mega-server or something among those lines with 25k+ people makes it harder. And I think it's easier to build a good LS when the overall community is smaller and the game content is harder than in a casual environment with thousands of people, but to each it's own.

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EVE Online is the perfect example of the fact that strong, close-knit communities can easily be built on large servers. As a matter of fact the EVE community is one of the strongest on the internet (strong enough to put the developer on its collective knees when it crossed the community), and it has within itself some of the strongest sub-communities as well.

And it doesn't have 25k people on the same server. It has around 400k. Communities are modular, and the upper limit doesn't influence in any way the ability to community-build. As a matter of fact, the bigger the pool, the higher the chance that you'll meet more like-minded people with which to form a strong bond.

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I work with systems way more complex than MMO's daily, and I assure you those are not just databases, so I know quite well how all the processes involved in developing, deploying, configuring, testing and teaching to use any given system involve, this is why I tell you, if SE knows their stuff, and I'm pretty sure they know, if they do this they will do it all right. I could start a long techie post as why I think this won't involve much effort and cost development even when delivering new content, but I don't think much people could appreciate it.

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You could sure start a long techie post, and it wouldn't have anything to do with this topic, because unless you develop MMORPGs, or are in close contact with people that do, developing other kinds of software gives you absolutely no experience in MMORPG development.

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And because it won't happen it's not worth discussing? What happens with freedom of speech man! If you don't like this, don't read it and don't comment on it. It's not right that OP had to put this in his thread:

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Not worth discussing != you can't discuss it. Go ahead and discuss it as much as you like. I know worse ways to waste time. That's for sure.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

Huge, not very readable wall of text

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Only that the fact that MMORPGs fail has absolutely nothing to do with their server structure. So yeah, you can sit on your "high horse" and say "i told you so", but you would simply be wrong.

Mind you, one of the main reasons MMORPGs "fail" is that bleeding players tends to have a slippery slope effect. When you start losing players for any reasons (and MMORPG *always* lose a sizable number of players after the first free month), other players notice less people playing the game in their servers and have less people to play with. The result is that they start to feel less enthusiastic about the game and more bored. Some of those players leave. Those remaining continue to feels the same effect, but amplified by the fact that now there are even less players, and so forth.

Lowering server populations are one of the primary causes of "failure" of any MMORPG, and the more you fragment the servers between different rulesets, the lower server populations will be, especially on the more niche rulesets.

So yeah, your proposal would *accelerate* failure.

Oh, and Project Eternity is a single player RPG, not a MMO.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

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Even though I don't agree with the megaserver thing, for the rest of your post you deserve a badge.

You are right, the important thing for Square should not be to reach short term profit and grab the people that would leave the game whatever it does do, but build a game that will endure get a not so big but strong and permanent player base, like FFXI did. Probably the same formula as FFXI won't work in this day and age, but the desired result is the same.

Also giving different server choices would really tell what people like and want, looking at how many servers of each kind are required.

On to your secondary thoughts, yeah, communities are not developers, and in most cases, (in everything that requires satisfying a customer), the customer know that they want/need something, but don't know what he is really looking for, so if ARR fails, then I don't think developers would listen to their communities like Yoshi P did in a long long time.

Edit: To Abriael, if this forum had private messages I'd continue our exchange through there as it would be highly off-topic keeping it here.

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Originally Posted by Momita

Not False, of course PVP seems will be much bigger than XI but still not the main content like others game. Coliseum will be just an hobby for who want and the frontier (that we don't know anything) will be the only mass pvp will be in game.

So for this reason FFXIV still remain PVE oriented, with some PVP just for fun ^^

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Actually, you're wrong. it is going to be "main content." just not open world. It's going to be a lot more than the minigame or "hobby" it was in XI. You won't be forced into participating against your will and it will take place in isolated areas, but it's not going to be trivial.

XIV won't be "oriented" any particular way. Yoshida is aiming to inlcude content for every type of player, not just one type. It was spoken of certain battlegrounds which open PvE content for different factions depending on the outcomes of the battles. FFXIV's PvP is not going to be Ballista, or dueling. It is currently appearing to be more like WoW battlegrounds which have rewards and such. Know what you're talking about before you post about it. Yoshida is a self proclaimed fan of PvP and intends for it to be more than just a sideshow.

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EVE Online is the perfect example of the fact that strong, close-knit communities can easily be built on large servers. As a matter of fact the EVE community is one of the strongest on the internet (strong enough to put the developer on its collective knees when it crossed the community)

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this couldnt be made a more subjective statement if you tried. I've heard and read about a lot of BS going on in that game, leaders of corporations taking shit and running, backstabbing eachother over drama outside of the game, etc. the same kind of drama, instability and nonsense that every online game has.

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What happens with freedom of speech man!

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Just FYI, freedom of speech does not exist on a privately held discussion forum. SE does have and can use the power to suppress speech on these forums, because they own them. When you sign up, you agree to be bound by certain rules. Not saying that you're breaking them, but you need to understand that free speech does not exist here. This isn't the United States, this is the FFXIV Forum.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Actually, you're wrong. it is going to be "main content." just not open world. It's going to be a lot more than the minigame or "hobby" it was in XI.

XIV won't be "oriented" any particular way. Yoshida is aiming to inlcude content for every type of player, not just one type.

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Actually, neither of you is right because we know *nothing* of the frontier, so we have absolutely no idea on how relevant it will be.

It seems to me that you're both talking out of wishful thinking. IE: saying that PvP will be what you hope will be. But neither Yoshida nor others ever gave solid info on that, other than a very general overview that made no mention of its scope or relevancy.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Actually, neither of you is right because we know *nothing* of the frontier, so we have absolutely no idea on how relevant it will be.

It seems to me that you're both talking out of wishful thinking. IE: saying that PvP will be what you hope will be. But neither Yoshida nor others ever gave solid info on that, other than a very general overview that made no mention of its scope or relevancy.

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I agree with you in this one, we know nothing about PvP yet, but something is for sure, if they don't balance sleepga, everyone will be BLM on the battlegrounds.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

this couldnt be made a more subjective statement if you tried. I've heard and read about a lot of BS going on in that game, leaders of corporations taking shit and running, backstabbing eachother over drama outside of the game, etc. the same kind of drama, instability and nonsense that every online game has.

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"hearing" and "reading" doesn't really make up for experience. There's drama in every single MMORPG out there. EVE's drama just makes the news because the game is 100% a sandbox, and that lets people cook up some high level intrigue, espionage and theft that becomes newsworthy.

It has nothing to do with the community. As a matter of fact, it strengthens it. And strengthens the subcommunities within the game. The same people that steal each other's panties in game, drink beer and share jokes together every year at Fanfest.

even though project eternity isn't a mmo but single player it still shows that there are tons of players out there that have to go threw other means just to get a game type that they like.

if SE today opened up a kickstarter today saying hey we are gonna create 2 mmo's with the same ffxiv engine, the normal ffxiv and a second one with same the same engine but it will be designed to be ffxi-2'ish but they need donations (pre purchases) of 4million dollars b4 we can make the second game. i bet you anything they will make there mark.

you can say there is a minority but naa, there is lots of players that would kill for a game designed with that old school type of mmo in mind.

i dont agree with the OP, and i think ill get some stick from Dannythm person just for saying this.. (OP back up? pfft) been through all the pages and i think the OP is entitled to his opinion, even though we know it wont happen, really..

i suppose its worth discussing since in the end its peoples views and we should hear em out, after all thats the direction the dev team has been taking since Yoshi got the job.

and i get it.. its about the concept not the examples given (even though you should have some to back up your views, less confusion will result), in my humble opinion i dont think SE will cater to the idea of splitting the game rules in servers in anyway, maybe RP sure, besides that nah

FFXIV- bought in EU, choosing random server
FFXIV- bought in NA, choosing random server,

both should have the same exact experience in my opinion, its more or less about the games identity, Final Fantasy is a Franchise , so it should not contradict it self with different rules in different servers for different kind of players,

like: here on server (A) you can play THIS way, and here on server (B) you can play THAT way..

hear the players feed back and possibly adjust some aspects of the game based upon that? by all means, it helps move the game forward, but having different rules in different servers and such isnt all its made out to be by theory for FFXIV.

its an interesting idea though, but lets not get worked up about it

>.>b

every offline game has multiple difficulties, this wouldn't be any different then that. lets face it, we can spend about a month to 3 months in a mmo and feel like we have accomplished everything. some will jump right to hardest modes and some will ream threw easy and done. some with go threw then all one at a time. either way difficulties in themselves is already catering to multiple types of players. why should mmo's be different? you can't deny that mmo's are taking less and less time to complete, why would others care if a few servers slowed that down for instance.

also final fantasy offliners even are coming out with multiple games from the same engine and story now, they pumping out final fantasy 13, 13-2, lighting returns, 13versus(not sure if same engine), dlc's for them on top of that, but why not a mmo? simple tweaks to numbers itself already creates a totally different mmo.

i don't want to say that i can see the future but the way mmo's were going, we will then be paying a monthly for mmo's that are basically the content of a offline game at launch. if they took away 100% of the grind that is what it would be lol.

they are saying everquest 3 is promising to not do what all mmo's are doing, so it's a fact that it's what they were doing, even them they said. so that is why i said were going, i'ma give them the benefit of the doubt that, that game won't be the same average mmo. we will see. and while i still have huge hopes for ffxiv, for sure over any and all mmo's out now there is always more they can do to cater to multiple types of gamers and game styles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

you can say there is a minority but naa, there is lots of players that would kill for a game designed with that old school type of mmo in mind.

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78k people is nothing compared to the usual population of a successful MMORPG.

Besides, a lot of developers tried to make an "old school" hardcore MMORPG, and they bombed so badly that it still hurts their ass.

78k people is a ton of absolutely full servers, that is a lot of extra cash coming the way of the company if they can keep both sides of the gaming hemisphere playing a mmo. is that not actually obvious? not sure what i'm missing here lol.

other then we the "hardcore" or "unhappy" are the ones that are keeping the "casual" "happy" folks in the games even when they are catered to them? then i understand, we are stuck cause if we leave ..casuals leave, if we are segregated to "happy world" then all the casuals will quit even quicker then they normally do. ...but lol that sure as heck isn't a good enough reason for me. i don't work for SE, i pay them. not the other way around. this is the only possible reason i can think of at all for not doing this. and if all the proof moves towards this being reason for mmo's to not satisfy everyone then all be damned if i'ma play any more mmo's ...let them keep dying. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

78k people is a ton of absolutely full servers, that is a lot of extra cash coming the way of the company if they can keep both sides of the gaming hemisphere playing a mmo. is that not actually obvious? not sure what i'm missing here lol.

other then we the "hardcore" or "unhappy" are the ones that are keeping the "casual" "happy" folks in the games even when they are catered to them? then i understand, we are stuck cause if we leave ..casuals leave, if we are segregated to "happy world" then all the casuals will quit even quicker then they normally do. ...but lol that sure as heck isn't a good enough reason for me. i don't work for SE, i pay them. not the other way around. this is the only possible reason i can think of at all for not doing this. and if all the proof moves towards this being reason for mmo's to not satisfy everyone then all be damned if i'ma play any more mmo's ...let them keep dying. :)

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I'm sorry strallaalaa, but with all due respect, your knowledge of the MMORPG market is... very lacking. Dreadfully so.

Aside from the fact that those 78k people pledged for a single player RPG, and that has absolutely no weight on how many would care for a "old school" mmorpg (which is a completely fallacious definition anyway, as it can mean a ton of different things and it means something different for different people), 78k people are nothing in this market. Nothing.

They could fill more or less 2-3 servers, considering that not all 78k would be online at the same time, and that's definitely not nearly enough for a successful MMO.

If FFXIV: ARR were to get only 78k users it would be considered a complete and utter failure under every point of view.

right i wasn't saying 78k player base is alot. i was saying it is a huge amount of extra players on top of it. that is like creating shoes but not selling or making them in size 7, why not make them in size 7 and get that extra cash. yeah you will make tons on all the other sizes but why not if it cost you next to nothing?

and though your right i don't know the business or makings of mmo's i do know one thing ..what i like as a consumer. i've played every mmo that has released for the most part since ffxi and i've yet to play any for more then a year. most only sadly a few months tops. i know i played ffxi for 5years. that is all i really need to know. also i can probably go threw the forums old posts, pre 1.0 launch and beyond and i bet i can find a million posts, with a million players(who don't even come on forums if even play anymore) that would beg to differ from what your saying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

right i wasn't saying 78k player base is alot. i was saying it is a huge amount of extra players on top of it. that is like creating shoes but not selling or making them in size 7, why not make them in size 7 and get that extra cash. yeah you will make tons on all the other sizes but why not if it cost you next to nothing?

and though your right i don't know the business or makings of mmo's i do know one thing ..what i like as a consumer. i've played every mmo that has released for the most part since ffxi and i've yet to play any for more then a year. most only sadly a few months tops. i know i played ffxi for 5years. that is all i really need to know. also i can probably go threw the forums old posts, pre 1.0 launch and beyond and i bet i can find a million posts, with a million players(who don't even come on forums if even play anymore) that would beg to differ from what your saying.

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You assume that those 78k players would want *only* a "old school" MMORPG (whatever it means), and as such would be additional customers, which is a rather tall assumption, and absolutely unrealistic.

Consumers have a big problem. It's called "tunnel vision". They think that their idea will automatically apply to a large number of people just because it sounds so great to them.

Only, it doesn't.

Having played every MMORPG ever released doesn't mean you know the market or what other consumers want. Not even forums are a faithful representation of what the customer base want, as they represent just a small minority. The majority is made by hundreds of thousands of silent players that play the game and will never care about bickering on the forums.

Oh yeah. have fun finding "a million posts" that "beg to differ" from what I'm saying. Better start counting, 'cause it'll take you a while.

i think we have managed to derail the whole point of this thread at this point. i'll leave it at this cause any more would be repeating ourselves. more people is more people no matter how you look at it. you keep repeating and side steping what this whole thread si about. it's about choices, it's about a mmo that won't lose a large chunk of it's player base within months of it releasing. it's giving options to them that might keep them here, what ever those things can be.

also my first statements were that it was too late for ffxiv to do this, but if devs creating a new mmo sat down and said ok enough of this losing half our player base in 6months. how do we make them all happy and keep all of them for as long as we can, they will come to this post. maybe not but lol something pretty close to it is what they will come up with, even if it's this idea but not separating servers. dedicated servers to me just sounded like the easiest way. but figuring out a way to layer multiple types of game styles on one major server and then stream lining there content in a fashion where they are still all rolling together. all the power to them, i can probably jot them a few ideas ..bwhahaha.

companies like eq3 are already saying they need to stop doing the "norm" ..if you all of sudden find yourself not liking mmo's ...i bet you will look back at this thread and create one just like it. hehe.

http://eq2wire.com/2012/10/18/soe-li...h-for-updates/

We do not believe the current method of making these games is sustainable. Look at the games in the last 3 years. SWTOR. The Secret World. Rift. Every one declines after release.

Now look at League of Legends. It continues to increase.

We need to add emergent gameplay to our content pipeline.

Focus on Emergent & Sandbox Style Play

Does this mean we stop making EQ and EQ2 content? No. You can expect those things to continue. But some games will see more emergent gameplay.


this might not be on topic but if you start to hate on mmo's cause they start to succeed again going a route you don't like lol, well anyway. i'ma stop responding to you less there really is anything worth talking about. kinda tired of it just being us two. the candle at the dinner table is melted down, there is only ice left in my drink and i'm thinking of pretending to go to the bathroom so i can ditch you. :)

was hoping for more feed back from more players but like i said in first post i only expected the same 4 people repeatedly bashing my idea lmao i was right. but like you said and i've said tons of times too, the people on these forums don't really matter it's those that don't go on them. it's those who silently leave and turn there mmo's into a pile of useless ones and zero's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaizuko_Hakupac

i dont agree with the OP, and i think ill get some stick from Dannythm person just for saying this.. (OP back up? pfft) been through all the pages and i think the OP is entitled to his opinion, even though we know it wont happen, really.

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I went to back up because it seems nobody else agreed with the idea, and I like it, nothing more nothing less.

Anyway I said all I thought about this really and the argument isn't really advancing, a few of us think it would be a great idea, more think it's terrible, and no new points are being discussed, I'm gonna keep reading the thread but I doubt I'll contribute to it anymore. As a mod would say, this thread has already run it's course.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

I went to back up because it seems nobody else agreed with the idea, and I like it, nothing more nothing less.

Anyway I said all I thought about this really and the argument isn't really advancing, a few of us think it would be a great idea, more think it's terrible, and no new points are being discussed, I'm gonna keep reading the thread but I doubt I'll contribute to it anymore. As a mod would say, this thread has already run it's course.

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You just explained why it never can and will happen only a few like this idea.