Forum outrage! An explaination?

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

lets not forget that half you fuks think grammar is relevant to a thread or post or opinion. gtfo.

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^^This is what I think of what you just posted...


http://www.gamereplays.org/community...1318868265.jpg

There shouldn't be any problem with people posting their opinions and thoughts on the game, and acknowledging someone else's post as "bullshit" just because you don't agree with their post is actual bullshit(unless a) they're grossly misinformed or b) it's for the funny :P ), but that doesn't mean that a person can't at least present an intelligent argument/disagreement without it devolving into a trollish, garbled "no U" slapfest. After spending some time browsing through the TOR forums, I was able to witness some REAL internet bile. I'd like to think that this community is better than that, and there's plenty of proof of it, so let's keep that part going.

As for grammar, I'm just going to echo one of my English professors: "If you didn't care enough to proofread what you were writing, why should I care enough to read it?"

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

lets not forget that half you fuks think grammar is relevant to a thread or post or opinion. gtfo.

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F I post somthing lik dis, wud U tink deffernt ov me. Prolly not bt U mait B mor Nclind 2 juge me bass on my gramr. + it lens credit dat im not a ideot. + Ur eye dun bled wen ur redin dis. Try tess it out n sen somthin lik dis 2 som1. I kin garintee that u will luk lik a todal ideot n ur thots will B thron 2 da side.

...someone shoot me cause I actually had to think to write this damned thing.

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Originally Posted by Genjuro

F I post somthing lik dis, wud U tink deffernt ov me. Prolly not bt U mait B mor Nclind 2 juge me bass on my gramr. + it lens credit dat im not a ideot. + Ur eye dun bled wen ur redin dis. Try tess it out n sen somthin lik dis 2 som1. I kin garintee that u will luk lik a todal ideot n ur thots will B thron 2 da side.

...someone shoot me cause I actually had to think to write this damned thing.

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Well done taking it to the far extreme. :rolleyes:

I think what he meant was having one or two grammar mistakes or misspelled words do not nullify a person's viewpoint in a debate.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

It's a mix of people who are nostalgic about FFXI (and wanted an FFXI with updated graphics) and people who are WOW-phobic.

Yoshi-P said when he joined that his plan is to modernize FFXIV by looking at what made western MMOs successful, that's literally what he's done, and that's what these people are complaining about. A modern MMO that has a few things in common with WOW.

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That said, some of his work still seems too caught up on the western systems or conventions themselves, rather than why they worked for their given games. Quest density, for example, has often been a good thing, but why?

Does a grindy-addictive clickfest actually suit an FF style... wait... haven't worked through that yet...

It's never a bad idea to view and learn from your competition. But the more one focuses on what has been done, the less instinctive freedom one has in developing the actual targets of the game. And those, be in vast quest networks and diverse zones rolled through with easy humor, or party and labor-intensive gameplay over a world that feels about as realistic as fantasy can get, etc, are what will really set the game apart.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Well done taking it to the far extreme. :rolleyes:

I think what he meant was having one or two grammar mistakes or misspelled words do not nullify a person's viewpoint in a debate.

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Lol yes you're right. I did take it to the extreme.

Anyone that judges you based on a few spelling mistakes seriously is looking in the wrong place. It's called an ad hominem, where they start attacking YOU and not the argument. Any debate or discussion should ideally be about the subject, NOT attacking each other.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Well done taking it to the far extreme. :rolleyes:

I think what he meant was having one or two grammar mistakes or misspelled words do not nullify a person's viewpoint in a debate.

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yeah really, usually there isn't even a red mark in my posts and i still get grammar nazi's. reality is you think you smarter then the rest and are trying to call them out on it like there opinions don't matter. get a life, there is nothing you have that smarts more then any one else. and your post shows this, half those people might not even speak english ..that don't make there points irrelevant less they are rmt lol. besides our youth ..the people they are making these games for are all twitter and facebook and texting, i'm sure they all understand each other when they type like nut jobs.

The awesome part about this is that as stated by the poll Yoshi-P made 60% of the playerbase never show their faces here 30% sometimes and 10% everyday yet each and every person that complains about every turn this team takes talk like they are speaking out in behalf of thousands of people when its clearly not that way...yet this pesky vocal minority manages to be outnumbered here by people that think their complains are so out of place lol...so that should give you an idea...
my favorite ones are those that claim in the internet there are legions of people hating FFXIV for what Yoshi-P is doing and giving bad press ...this inspired me to go on a Google Marathon looking for this bad press and turns out is completely false...the only legit complain i found was about the waiting for game to come out ..this team is been acknowledge their work prized and excitement charts are at 7.5+ ..so the best thing to do is ignore them

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Should chaff "Repeated threads" be quickly locked and burried? of course, but as we lack the abillity to do so we have to leave that in the hands of the moderators. Many of my threads have been burried by people telling other people to stop speaking their mind it irks me in one sense and entertains me in another that the whole thread itself has been done before many times but is to the OP justified to bring to light a issue we all are allready aware of. It's a no-win battle people will and should continue to post however they see fit unless it breaks the forums user policy, it's not our job to police the forums it's our job to use them and discuss the future of the game in them.

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Just makes me wish threads could set their own moderators, who each have the ability to bookmark, organize, and mob up the thread. Just to be fair, things removed can go into a thread archive.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

yeah really, usually there isn't even a red mark in my posts and i still get grammar nazi's. reality is you think you smarter then the rest and are trying to call them out on it like there opinions don't matter. get a life, there is nothing you have that smarts more then any one else. and your post shows this, half those people might not even speak english ..that don't make there points irrelevant less they are rmt lol. besides our youth ..the people they are making these games for are all twitter and facebook and texting, i'm sure they all understand each other when they type like nut jobs.

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That's because the grammar marks are green.

Kidding of course. But honestly I am more likely to read a post that's been well written, when both the flow of the idea and the grammar of the text that conveys those ideas are well presented. Consider it a matter of effort, if nothing else.

That said, as long as it isn't garbled, I'm likely to read a long one without great grammar, if only from the assumption that there has to be something gold in that text wall.

Not sure what the outrage is but it isn't those in the alpha, they would be glad for numorous changes, and also understand aspects left out because it is a stress test.

I see a lot dwelling on back peddling and other aspects which seriously are not a majo r issue at all.

For those complaining about Jump you can have this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM

I don't see why people take such personal offense to others trying to voice their ideas on improving the game. They've acted no more brash or crude than anyone else in spite of how our bias skews our focus.

People have stuck with this game for 2 years and want a game that will be well worth the wait.

Making up excuses, trying to make these people seem insignificant and worthless, is not only egocentric but kinda narrow minded. These people have the same rights to feel about the game one way as you do another, no matter how much it bothers you.

And it's a double edged sword. Just because people like Starlord can't find fault in the new game does not mean they're part of any defense force or white knights. And guys like KiriA500 aren't in it to make an exact copy of WoW. They just appreciate features and think they would be a good base on structuring ARR. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we're wrong. They're opinions. Opinions on an industry that is always changing and experimenting. There are no truly right or wrong answers here. There's more than one path to follow.

We need to all step back and reflect.

As for grammar: If you're going to communicate, try to communicate clearly.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I don't see why people take such personal offense to others trying to voice their ideas on improving the game. They've acted no more brash or crude than anyone else in spite of how our bias skews our focus.

People have stuck with this game for 2 years and want a game that will be well worth the wait. Seeing people get mad over others being concerned over certain things is much more discouraging to me than the people who are actually voicing those concerns.

Making up excuses, trying to make these people seem insignificant and worthless, is not only egocentric but kinda narrow minded. These people have the same rights to feel about the game one way as you do another, no matter how much it bothers you.

And it's a double edged sword. Just because people like Starlord can't find fault in the new game does not mean they're part of any defense force or white knights. And guys like KiriA500 aren't in it to make an exact copy of WoW. They just appreciate features and think they would be a good base on structuring ARR. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we're wrong. They're opinions. Opinions on an industry that is always changing and experimenting. There are no truly right or wrong answers here. There's more than one path to follow.

We need to all step back and reflect.

As for grammar: If you're going to communicate, try to communicate clearly.

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This minority crossed the line of annoyance long time ago with their complains and stance of not accepting anything if it isn't FFXI-2 or 1.0 all over again disguised as "concern" when it was clear the big majority asked for change.
Why can't we be more direct and harsh in asking them to stop with it when they fail to understand simple things like spamming the forums with complain threads wont do shit...none listens to their "concerns" this is not the place for it.. it is not a direct private VIP telephone line to Yoshi-P's desk ..they wont let this team even launch the game to see what they are capable of.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

This minority crossed the line of annoyance long time ago with their complains and stance of not accepting anything if it isn't FFXI-2 or 1.0 all over again disguised as "concern" when it was clear the big majority asked for change.
Why can't we be more direct and harsh in asking them to stop with it when they fail to understand simple things like spamming the forums with complain threads wont do shit...none listens to their "concerns" this is not the place for it.. it is not a direct private VIP telephone line to Yoshi-P's desk ..they wont let this team even launch the game to see what they are capable of.

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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zrXYAV1ZHK...Jo/s1600/amen.


Hallelujah! Someone gets it!

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Originally Posted by Warlock

This minority crossed the line of annoyance long time ago with their complains and stance of not accepting anything if it isn't FFXI-2 or 1.0 all over again disguised as "concern" when it was clear the big majority asked for change.
Why can't we be more direct and harsh in asking them to stop with it when they fail to understand simple things like spamming the forums with complain threads wont do shit...none listens to their "concerns" this is not the place for it.. it is not a direct private VIP telephone line to Yoshi-P's desk ..they wont let this team even launch the game to see what they are capable of.

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You know what, I'm striking that part from it. I don't care how much something annoys someone else. That should not be an excuse to deny the freedom of speech and I should not have even brought it up. It was selfish of me.

I have seen no one demanding this game be exactly like XI or keep it the exact same as 1.0, nor have I seen anyone require that this game be the exact structure as WoW. We all have completely legitimate reasons why we want particular features and structures to be added, kept, or removed from the game. And they do listen, they have been. Just look at color dye reform and the server merge. We spoke up and prevented the game from doing things we didn't want. Hell, the whole reason the game is being changed in the first place is because people spoke up. I don't understand why anyone would be against it. These forums are here so we can have a line to the dev team.

I'm tired of these labels we use to depersonalize viewpoints. "Oh they're just trolling, they're only white knights, It's just the vocal minority, they don't matter" It's petty and totally self serving. This sort of us vs them schlock just keeps us from having dialogue. We can do better. I've seen how reasonable we can act.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I'm tired of these labels we use to depersonalize viewpoints. "Oh they're just trolling, they're only white knights, It's just the vocal minority, they don't matter" It's petty and totally self serving. This sort of us vs them schlock just keeps us from having dialogue. We can do better. I've seen how reasonable we can act.

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I understand that demonizing the oposing view is the easy way out and it's what people will do 90% of the time. If you don't like it, make it the enemy.

I really wish people were more willing to discuss the game rather than have a back and forth of oposing ideals just calling eachother names.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

~snip~.

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The way you want this discussion to go is just how it started ...and since then the people that understands the changes and why these changes are necessary keep excusing the changes to those that wont even bother looking into them and reason why they been made and more importantly they been done for the better ..its easier for them to wave the "WoW-clone" flag or "its standard western" than us calling them out with titles like "loud vocal minority"

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Originally Posted by Warlock

The way you want this discussion to go is just how it started ...and since then the people that understands the changes and why these changes are necessary keep excusing the changes to those that wont even bother looking into them and reason why they been made and more importantly they been done for the better ..its easier for them to wave the "WoW-clone" flag or "its standard western" than us calling them out with titles like "loud vocal minority"

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Well it's not like those concerns are unfounded. Yoshi himself has said he felt the game was too run of the mill a few months ago. And while I'm sure he's taking steps to change that, I don't think policing the threads with a demand for contentment is a good decision. People have played these systems before under different titles, maybe they're sick of seeing it, maybe they want something different and that doesn't automatically mean "make it like 1.0/XI" or "I hate it because WoW". Maybe they like to spend more time on something others think is a waste. It's not always out of ignorance of nostalgia. In fact, based on my observations, I'd say it's pretty rare.

It's a matter of personal perspective and like I said earlier: There are no truly right or wrong answers here. There's more than one path to follow.

Boy did this thread go way off into left field from what i originally posted about. I just want to clarify, again, that I was only trying to understand the rationalization of some persistent posting that has occurred. i was not invalidating the content of posts or trying to devalue people opinions or right to post. I actually thought it was a pretty legit reason for certain behaviors from a certain group.

I'm actually kind of sad to see things degrade as they did around page 4 but it was around there that the OP was not really addressed so much as it was the other posters so i guess i shouldnt take it too personally. Thanks for all the input and sorry for creating such distress.

I'm glad to see others expressing their points of view and thank you for allowing me to express mine.

well to answer for myself zakarnrosewood, i'm just bored. the time i would be playing ffxi i'm playing blackops 2 and every time a game ends i end up reading or posting lmao. and i personally post in the negative way rather then the positive all of you who seem to live on these forums do.

while i still think this game is above and beyond what any other mmo i've played since i quit ffxi but (tried basically every single mmo that launched since) i am not gonna hide how i feel about the direction it is going. i'm also treating each thread/op post as a single entity i'm not diving into it like ffxiv is awesome as a whole so what i don't like doesn't matter. i'm basically shit fitting on that i don't like. and it's just sad for me to see how much people like the modern direction mmo's are going ..simply put by the time i have children they probably will be paying a monthly for even offline final fantasy games cause that is the direction mmo's are going. lol anyway i got off topic again lmao.

the simple tldr answer for me is bored, and love for old school versions of mmo's and hate that we can't even get one A+ mmo to go old school now and such a high vocal majority complaining if something even remotely close starts to creep into there mmo. ....hey someone has to oppose the majority :)

haters gonna hate but ...who the hater is going to be next will allways change. :)

I blame high sugar high caffeine "energy drinks", nuclear proliferation and pressure on people, people on the streets

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

well to answer for myself zakarnrosewood, i'm just bored. the time i would be playing ffxi i'm playing blackops 2 and every time a game ends i end up reading or posting lmao. and i personally post in the negative way rather then the positive all of you who seem to live on these forums do.

while i still think this game is above and beyond what any other mmo i've played since i quit ffxi but (tried basically every single mmo that launched since) i am not gonna hide how i feel about the direction it is going. i'm also treating each thread/op post as a single entity i'm not diving into it like ffxiv is awesome as a whole so what i don't like doesn't matter. i'm basically shit fitting on that i don't like. and it's just sad for me to see how much people like the modern direction mmo's are going ..simply put by the time i have children they probably will be paying a monthly for even offline final fantasy games cause that is the direction mmo's are going. lol anyway i got off topic again lmao.

the simple tldr answer for me is bored, and love for old school versions of mmo's and hate that we can't even get one A+ mmo to go old school now and such a high vocal majority complaining if something even remotely close starts to creep into there mmo. ....hey someone has to oppose the majority :)

haters gonna hate but ...who the hater is going to be next will allways change. :)

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lol, well thanks for the honest response. I kind of figured that was your motivation. I too am bored and waiting with great anticipation for the release of the game. I post while i'm at work and I'm constantly scanning for new information, I really hope this can be the game that gets me away from LoL, I play that way too much.

I want this game to be successful just as much as any fan out there since i've been a huge fan of FF after getting my hands on the NES cartridge back when i was 7. I have raised my voice on things that do concern me but dont take my calmness for acceptance or my silence for ignorance. In the end SE will hear my voice the loudest by my pocket book. I guess in a way i'm using these forums as a way to try and get involved in the community aspect of the MMO scene, something i missed out on in almost every other MMO i played. But now I'M rambling, lol

In the end i think the reason we all are still here, even after the servers are shutr down, is because we all want this game to be fun and interesting. To the best of my knowledge this game will have one feature that i havent seen in any other MMO i've played, The ability to change your class without needing to create a new character. That alone should be something that, in my opinion, could negate many of the common issues i've been hearing lately. They will create new content for all levels on a regular basis, not just end game, i doubt you can solo by questing every job to end game, maybe your first one but after that most quests will be finished aside from a few class specific ones, the FC and GC will give reasons for group play. the only thing that might be an issue, but as of yet its still not complete, is the battle system. I want to see a vid on the limit breaks in a level 45 dungeon before crying about battles.

Its still early in the development cycle, while i may have concerns, i'm reserving judgment until i get a better picture. but i guess thats just me.

While I don't personally agree with most of the nitpicking, some people simply don't like certain things.

Not all MMORPGs, no matter how good, are for everyone, and even if you like a MMORPG, it's very unlikely that you'll like *everything* of it.

I would just leave it at that, without going to look for external/irrational causes or conspiracy theories. FFXIV won't be for everyone, and even if many of us will love it, there'll still be elements we like less or we won't like.

It's the nature of gaming, and even more so of MMORPGs.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

I have been wondering something of late. Could all this forum outrage be coming form a particular group of players? Namely people who were either part of the 1.0 alpha/beta or people here from the beginning and knew why 1.0 failed.

This could be the reasons for such a vocal opposition to even the smallest of issues while the game is still in production? With how little the previous team listened to the testers and fanbase it would stand to reason that this is why people are so vocal. They are afraid of a repeat of 1.0's launch, they want to make sure they are listened to, all because they want this game to succeed.

I must admit my frustration with people gripes have been, up to this point, based on the assumption that these people are just looking for something to complain about cause they have no life. While there may be a few that fit that description, I want to say that I finally get your concern.

All I have to say now is this is a different team and they have proven that they are listening this time. They have proven this for the last 2 years through Letters from the Dev's, Dev tracking, and Players Polls. Rest assured they have read and passed along your concerns regardless if they have commented directly to you on it.

At this point, they have a vision and a goal that they are sticking with. While a few tweaks and changes might still come I doubt they are going to redesign things yet again. While there are a few features that are similar to other genres and some things not everyone will like, thats just life. You cant please everyone.

Comment on the things that concern you then let it go. SE pays people to read this stuff, have pity on them. I wouldnt doubt that after the 10th thread about "gay marriage" they stopped reading every single thing and some good ideas may have been lost amongst the bickering. Make your point, say your piece, then let it go. Hitting the "like" button on a post will be something they actually look for, the rest would be fluff.

I will end my lengthy rant with an apology. I apologize for thinking the worst of the motives for some of the frequent forum posters.

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Don't remember anyone asking for a global cool down or backpedaling. I'll wait to try it before I bitch but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned

I do remember the players poll asking about battles, some of the comments were the sluggish feel of it all and the pacing. Looks like they have fixed it with getting rid of the animation locks and the ability to walk backwards... why is that even a concern? For mouse and keyboard users it will make gameplay much more responsive, wouldn't you think? In a PvP battle or a high end dungeon, I have a feeling this will be welcome, I bet some wish they could have had this for the Ifrit battle.

While it may have not been directly asked for, this is what we are getting. I think it looks much better than what we did have. Besides we have yet to see how this works in a higher level situation, the concerns with these features might not be as bad as you might think at that point. I guess we will have to wait for Beta to see how it feels then.

I'm pretty excited about ARR, the problem is that I really want it ASAP.

Granted I don't complain much about things in ARR, but once in a while I do get slightly impatient and start to nitpick. I think it's more of a "if I'm waiting this long to play a game that was already released it had better be worth the wait when I can play again" sort of thing.

But I try my very best to reserve judgment until official announcements are made, or until I'm able to actually play the game myself.

Awesome post Zakarn. Posts with strong (and good) human character are my favorite - something so very hard to perpetuate and demonstrate through these kinds of technological mediums.

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Originally Posted by DubstepNinja

I blame high sugar high caffeine "energy drinks", nuclear proliferation and pressure on people, people on the streets

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High caffeine drinks... reads sig.. looks back up.. reads sig..

ITS YOU!!! YOUR THE PROBLEM!!!

:D

Where is that sig from btw.. I swear I know that women and it is a really awkward feeling so.. who are they and tell me I'm wrong lol

The guys name is Reggie Watts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2FiYq55oac

Not sure about the girl, but I bet shes in one of his videos.

And i greatly appreciate the compliment, as long as you weren't being sarcastic, which I don't think you were. Like you said, its a rare thing... lol

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

The guys name is Reggie Watts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2FiYq55oac

Not sure about the girl, but I bet shes in one of his videos.

And i greatly appreciate the compliment, as long as you weren't being sarcastic, which I don't think you were. Like you said, its a rare thing... lol

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I was being serious :P

Sarcasm is pretty hard to use through typing without emotes (:eyeroll: <--), so that's generally how I do it (emotes.. lol).

Oh well maybe Ninja knows, if he checks back up here XD. Nice song btw... lol

Edit: found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f8MpPzi4bU

So weird lol, totally 'i know that person' feeling XD (pretty sure not though by credits in the video)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

A
High caffeine drinks... reads sig.. looks back up.. reads sig..

ITS YOU!!! YOUR THE PROBLEM!!!

:D

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Maybe I was trying to suggest something about the duality of man?

.. or more than likely high fructose corn syrup induced ADHD took a hold of me..

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Edit: found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f8MpPzi4bU

So weird lol, totally 'i know that person' feeling XD (pretty sure not though by credits in the video)

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Yup eagle and talon, also you need to watch the Reggie Watts live-vids,

Reggie Watts live at Poptech

(Warning: Video may cause side effects such as confusion, unexplained feelings of good vibes and bouts of soulfulness)