Back Paddling is horrible.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

All I got to say is - Right click mouse turn, run forward. Problem Solved

Separates the good players from the bad keyboard turners.

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I'm sure that would work just as fast on a controller.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

All I got to say is - Right click mouse turn, run forward. Problem Solved

Separates the good players from the bad keyboard turners.

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A convoluted system doesn't make good players.

Having an extra button to turn around doesn't account for keyboard only and gamepad gamers, as it was mentioned.

I find it amazing people are saying "don't worry, muscle memory will make this less of a hassle!" when 1.0 handled this in a much better, and efficient way. What are the cons of keeping it the way it was? Because I see a lot of cons in changing it to what ARR is employing.

where the issue? i don't see any issue with this o.o

If this thread was about raw fish...
http://www.thehaggis.com/EZ/sh/sh/im...slices_350.jpg

Rozzers >.>

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Originally Posted by Majidah

A convoluted system doesn't make good players.

Having an extra button to turn around doesn't account for keyboard only and gamepad gamers, as it was mentioned.

I find it amazing people are saying "don't worry, muscle memory will make this less of a hassle!" when 1.0 handled this in a much better, and efficient way. What are the cons of keeping it the way it was? Because I see a lot of cons in changing it to what ARR is employing.

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Almost every modern MMO uses mouse turning that its almost second nature to anyone who picks up a new MMO.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Almost every modern MMO uses mouse turning that its almost second nature to anyone who picks up a new MMO.

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I'm use to playing FFXI with just keyboard never even touch the mouse but soon i get into ffxiv and use the keyboard i use the mouse to turn so i agree it second nature to use the mouse for turning and i don't see a issue with it. I use use the mouse to press some of my action if there to far away from my left hand to click it.

Hopefully they have a good option for keyboard users as well, never been particularly fond to the mouse heavy MMO layouts.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

In the latest Alpha trailer we can see back paddling at it's best (or worst).

http://youtu.be/_N4G854ANo0?t=3m16s

What is this backpedaling?

In 1.0 when you walked in the direction opposite to where you were facing your character would turn around.

It seems in 2.0, instead, the character remains looking at the same direction and was backwards at a lower speed. Think of it as having your target locked on a non existent object, all the time.


I really hope they introduce alternative motion settings, or something of the sort. Because slowly stepping back whenever you want to run away seem like awful movement controls.

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cant you walk backwards in reallife?

you always just can walk forward?.. awesome.. you seem to be handicapped. maybe its not the best animation.

but people.. you can "back pedal" try it out on your own..



and when you are a sword fighter with a shield.. you would not turn your back to the target while moving.. you are going to walk backwards (back pedal) ... or would you show your backside to the target that he can hit you into your back with his sword? no you would not..

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

cant you walk backwards in reallife?

you always just can walk forward?.. awesome.. you seem to be handicapped.

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And you seem to be illiterate.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Hopefully they have a good option for keyboard users as well, never been particularly fond to the mouse heavy MMO layouts.

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With you on this. I never used my mouse in 1.xx. Hopefully that's still viable. It just feels right, keyboard only.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

And you seem to be illiterate.

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Says the person who writes "back paddling"....
english isnt my mother tongue maybe you try out yourself to write in a foreign language first and lets see then. this is a forum and i dont care.

but that shows that you have no arguments concerning this. you can "back pedal" in real life also.


the flames about "back pedaling" is just so ridiculous. you can say that you dont like the animation. but what the hell.. you can walk backwards ... even micheal jackson did, with his moonwalk lol.


http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia...2!Moonwalk.gif

i cant understand this discussion

The alpha controls don't just look awkward...

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Says the person who writes "back paddling"....
english isnt my mother tongue maybe you try out yourself to write in a foreign language first and lets see then. this is a forum and i dont care.

but that shows that you have no arguments concerning this. you can "back pedal" in real life also.

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No, see. This is where you and I differ. I didn't say you were illiterate because of how you phrased something.
I said you were illiterate because you disregarded everything that was written in the OP, and in the whole thread for that matter, and made some bullshit post.

In no moment of this thread I said back pedaling shouldn't be a part of the game.

So I recommend you actually read before commenting. Or don't comment.

Also if you'd have bothered reading you'd know english isn't my native language either. So giving me shit about "paddling" and then hiding behind "I don't speak good english!" is pretty retarded.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

No, see. This is where you and I differ. I didn't say you were illiterate because of how you phrased something.
I said you were illiterate because you disregarded everything that was written in the OP, and in the whole thread for that matter, and made some bullshit post.

In no moment of this thread I said back pedaling shouldn't be a part of the game.

So I recommend you actually read before commenting. Or don't comment.

Also if you'd have bothered reading you'd know english isn't my native language either. So giving me shit about "paddling" and then hiding behind "I don't speak good english!" is pretty retarded.

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well i dont read it anymore, because its the thousandth thread about "back pedaling" or character animations..

as i think back pedaling belongs to the game.. because its a natural movement..

it belongs to sword fights, badminton or whatever sport exists..

Back pedal

and not even in sports ...
and i think the game controls can work fine with it.
because its different to 1.0. (where you can just walk backwards when you are aiming at a target) doesnt mean it has to be much more bad.

i dont understand why people want to stick to the awful 1.0.
let it go.


and i am really sure, that when you will actually play it that you wont think that these are bad controls.. i know MANY MMorpgs who work like that when it comes to movement.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

as i think back pedaling belongs to the game.. because its a natural movement..

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Yeah I live my life with Resident Evil style tank controls in all situations amiright?

Though seriously while not as bad as resident evils "Turn to move" not being able to have free reign on your movement with just the keyboard is silly (It's arguable you can do workaround with the mouse) but to not give the option for keyboard users is as bad as saying they are releasing the game on PS3 without considering how a controler will work with the UI and movement in general (Free movement is much more suited to the controler as well.)

Having locked movement while locked onto a target is well and good (Hell XIV 1.0 and XI had it even) But it was always a snap to unlock your target and regain full control again even in combat if you deemed it. Options...for the people who screamed for them it's funny to see some of the same people fight against it when the tables turn and other people ask for them.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

In the latest Alpha trailer we can see back paddling at it's best (or worst).

http://youtu.be/_N4G854ANo0?t=3m16s

What is this backpedaling?

In 1.0 when you walked in the direction opposite to where you were facing your character would turn around.

It seems in 2.0, instead, the character remains looking at the same direction and was backwards at a lower speed. Think of it as having your target locked on a non existent object, all the time.


I really hope they introduce alternative motion settings, or something of the sort. Because slowly stepping back whenever you want to run away seem like awful movement controls.

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I remember posting about this when the first Alpha stream came out.
What a shame this might be permanent.

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Originally Posted by Volfield

I remember posting about this when the first Alpha stream came out.
What a shame this might be permanent.

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I think the best we can hope for is for alternate settings.
Like, type A uses an extra button to turn around, type B works like 1.0

Would like to see if we can make enough noise for management to hear us though.

I'd loathe using the mouse when playing a mmorpg. XI I played with keyboard only, and XIV with gamepad.

Mouse outside a FPS? Not my cup of tea.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Yeah I live my life with Resident Evil style tank controls in all situations amiright?

Though seriously while not as bad as resident evils "Turn to move" not being able to have free reign on your movement with just the keyboard is silly (It's arguable you can do workaround with the mouse) but to not give the option for keyboard users is as bad as saying they are releasing the game on PS3 without considering how a controler will work with the UI and movement in general (Free movement is much more suited to the controler as well.)

Having locked movement while locked onto a target is well and good (Hell XIV 1.0 and XI had it even) But it was always a snap to unlock your target and regain full control again even in combat if you deemed it. Options...for the people who screamed for them it's funny to see some of the same people fight against it when the tables turn and other people ask for them.

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I thought I read that alpha was only to test mouse and keyboard. That's not correct?

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Originally Posted by Psykotsu

I thought I read that alpha was only to test mouse and keyboard. That's not correct?

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it is correct

and

"all contents are under development and subject to change"

yoshi-p is a wonderful man, he always give us choice

Oh of course the controls are far from final, can't wait to see if the Beta adresses our concerns. It's hard to judge from what little we get from the Alpha build considering it's not really meant for alot of gameplay stuff.

But we got to roll with what they give us, I'm sure if we are totally off base the dev team is perfectly capable of ignoring our unfounds rants (Due to our lack of insight that they have due to information being at their fingertips)

Are you guys so bad at control that you can't use your mouse to turn around lol... I can't wait to pvp you people lol

Weren't you the guy that complains about tents realism? backpaddling is as real as it gets, you can't just turn your body right away. Gotta turn and then run forward.

your characters view is the camera itself it allows for more control that's the whole point. once you get in to complicated fights you will see how important this control scheme is. These controls are made for a keyboard and mouse not a controller... and yes you will be able to tell the difference from keyboard turners vs people with actually mmo exp. lol can't wait to see.

Honestly I was so tired of Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 lack of controls/keybinding. It drove me nuts sometimes.

Lastly, this type of control scheme compounded with key-bindings will allow for faster then macro actions, which again means more control over all.

I have to add one more thing, these new controls will not need target locking, the reason being that you will be able to switch targets faster and they will be getting away from using a controller, on the pc. It will be a pain in the Ass at first for any of you controller noobs, but once you get used to it you will never go back as its just way to slow and the lack of control will drive you nuts.

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Originally Posted by pool842

Are you guys so bad at control that you can't use your mouse to turn around lol.

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Yeah because control scheme preference means someone sucks or something...Do I have that right?

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Weren't you the guy that complains about tents realism? backpaddling is as real as it gets, you can't just turn your body right away. Gotta turn and then run forward.

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Read the thread.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Yeah because control scheme preference means someone sucks or something...Do I have that right?

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Lets play some Team Fortress 2, Ill use keyboard and mouse, you use Xbox360 controller. Let's see who wins.

Moral of the story is, different control schemes means that one will have an advantage over another. That's just how it is.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Lets play some Team Fortress 2, Ill use keyboard and mouse, you use Xbox360 controller. Let's see who wins.

Moral of the story is, different control schemes means that one will have an advantage over another. That's just how it is.

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Its SE's job to make sure keyboard users don't have an advantage over gamepad users in their design of the control scheme.

Personally I'd play XI with keyboard (no mouse) and XIV with gamepad. And I am NOT willing to get rid of the gamepad as its really comfortable. Moving with the stick is a pleasure.

actually yes you have less control with certain control schemes, lol.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Yeah because control scheme preference means someone sucks or something...Do I have that right?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Lets play some Team Fortress 2, Ill use keyboard and mouse, you use Xbox360 controller. Let's see who wins.

Moral of the story is, different control schemes means that one will have an advantage over another. That's just how it is.

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Thank you ^^

don't like backpedaling? L2STRAFE

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Moral of the story is, different control schemes means that one will have an advantage over another. That's just how it is.

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From Controler to mous that may be true, but as of 1.0 it is rather easy to quickly turn around and face your camera towards you without a mouse. The only so called "Advantage" Mouse users have over keyboard players it seems.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Its SE's job to make sure keyboard users don't have an advantage over gamepad users in their design of the control scheme.

Personally I'd play XI with keyboard (no mouse) and XIV with gamepad. And I am NOT willing to get rid of the gamepad as its really comfortable. Moving with the stick is a pleasure.

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So in other words you want the game downgraded for the controller market? WITH LESS CONTROL OF YOUR CHARACTER....

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Originally Posted by Jynx

From Controler to mous that may be true, but as of 1.0 it is rather easy to quickly turn around and face your camera towards you without a mouse. The only so called "Advantage" Mouse users have over keyboard players it seems.

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Its not only about turning its about target selection, with quick angles to get better views of your enemy which a keyboard does not allow with out a mouse.

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Originally Posted by pool842

So in other words you want the game downgraded for the controller market? WITH LESS CONTROL OF YOUR CHARACTER....

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So in other words, your imagination is unexistant and you should never get into game development if you assumed I was saying that.

No, I didn't say one setups should hold back the other one. I said all should be designed in such way they are equal.
If you see back pedaling by default a hindrance to gamepad, then the obvious answer would be to use 1.0's setup on it and disable the default back pedaling 2.0 seems to have.

Gamepad is already using an axis based macro menu instead of the horizontal action bar keyboard uses. You have to be pretty narrow sighted to think keyboard users have to be better than gamepad users based on controller schemes alone.

Its up for the game designers to find a way to make them equal, not the players.

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Originally Posted by pool842

So in other words you want the game downgraded for the controller market? WITH LESS CONTROL OF YOUR CHARACTER....

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As a controller user, I never had any issues in 1.0. If you set up your bars with the controller in mind, you could reach anything you needed fairly quickly. If you really need to reach something at a moment's notice you could use the marcos, but this was rarely an issue. Only time I used them was Sentinel in Ifrit back in the day and Lunar Curtains on Darnus. Movement was super easy, with both analog sticks you can easily move your camera and character at the same time with ease.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

So in other words, your imagination is unexistant and you should never get into game development if you assumed I was saying that.

No, I didn't say one setups should hold back the other one. I said all should be designed in such way they are equal.
If you see back pedaling by default a hindrance to gamepad, then the obvious answer would be to use 1.0's setup on it and disable the default back pedaling 2.0 seems to have.

Gamepad is already using an axis based macro menu instead of the horizontal action bar keyboard uses. You have to be pretty narrow sighted to think keyboard users have to be better than gamepad users based on controller schemes alone.

Its up for the game designers to find a way to make them equal, not the players.

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Well I hate to break it to ya bud but they are better in a mmo sorry if you don't agree I guess you will find out in game huh lol. Don't worry it took me a while to understand to since I was coming form a ps2 to a pc playing wow. Second controls are set to a specific speed which mice are not HUGE DISADVANTAGE. And again if you disable back peddling you have less control.. again I can't prove it unless I were to show you and honestly I would rather you just find out for your self.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

As a controller user, I never had any issues in 1.0. If you set up your bars with the controller in mind, you could reach anything you needed fairly quickly. If you really need to reach something at a moment's notice you could use the marcos, but this was rarely an issue. Only time I used them was Sentinel in Ifrit back in the day and Lunar Curtains on Darnus. Movement was super easy, with both analog sticks you can easily move your camera and character at the same time with ease.

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Right but there are no clutch reaction fights in Final Fantasy XIV they game itself is to slow so you will never notice. only in a game like SWTOR or WOW will you notice because of the nonexistence of lag, and 3 to 4 times faster combat. In these situations the limitations of a controller are exemplified. In fact even macros are to slow for world of Warcraft sometimes. The only time I use macros in wow is per say is when I need to use 3 abilities at the same time or if the having 2 abilities working together as a single ability which I then add to my hot bar like in 14 but it would be keybinded for quick use.

Let's just say I'm hoping we dont need to rely on twitch gameplay in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Its SE's job to make sure keyboard users don't have an advantage over gamepad users in their design of the control scheme.

Personally I'd play XI with keyboard (no mouse) and XIV with gamepad. And I am NOT willing to get rid of the gamepad as its really comfortable. Moving with the stick is a pleasure.

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Unforunately keyboards and mice have innate advantages in precision and number of buttons. The only non-monumental-task means of balancing this is to cripple the mouse/keyboard players by making the interface clunky and controls unresponsive on purpose.

If you find mouse/keyboard "uncomfortable" then you need to get new ones- There are lots of mice out there with different feels and comfort levels. a mouse that fits your hand well and a highly ergonomic keyboard will do wonders for your comfort level. Want to sit on the couch? Just go wireless. You're going to need a keyboard anyway for decent speed of text input- And it's a lot easier to input text with the device you're already using than to keep picking up and putting the controller down.

I understand why console gamers like their controllers but you can't expect them to make both control methods completely equal. It's just not possible- It's like asking that orange to go and be the same as the apple.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Let's just say I'm hoping we dont need to rely on twitch gameplay in ARR.

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Ya I know what ya mean, but to make fighting more realistic, spontaneous and tougher, you have to have it sometimes. Otherwise you have to rely on inflated stats of mobs, and invisible fight mechanics to make fights hard which in essence alone sucks... ya know? Its going to be awhile for games to use physics like Tera, and even then they use twitch mechanics sometimes to along with stats dodging bla bla bla lol.