Alpha First Look: Video 3 - The Black Shroud

This was a great preview. Way better than the last one.

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Originally Posted by Nox

too bad jumping is here to stay. Has it occurred to you that this is what they want? the devs I mean, to show off that it's finally got a feature that is an MMO STANDARD. Seriously, get over it. Jumping is here to stay, and it makes the game much more appealing to me and to many other people. You wanna see real jumping? Go outside and look at your friends jump, or take a video of you jumping and loop it as you are in awe by how realistic the jump is. This is a game, We play it to have fun, it doesn't have to be realistic to the point its boring as hell (hello 1.0).

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I didn't say remove jumping.
"Everybody is doing it" is not a reason to do something.
I'm saying that if you jump forward then it should actually look like a forward jump. It doesn't have to be realistic, but it should be plausible. It just looks weird as it is now. It is bad art and I'm sure you'd appreciate a better jump animation too.
I'm not sure at all what you mean about making a video of jumping. What does that mean?
"We play it to have fun" does not mean anything. Water is wet. So?

I do not mean to be hostile to other players, but I am still going to make my case to developers were I might be heard.

If you want to counter what I'm saying address the issue of jumping, not me.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

I've answered your question with sympathy because of the reply you gave back. Besides, you quote my comment as if you're directly addressing me. Anyways, someone has already explained the situation.

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I think you didn't quite understand what I meant. You said "This is your problem not mine" as if I wanted you to feel the same way I do. I'm not trying to convince players that do not see a problem. If it doesn't bother you I cannot make it bother you and I wouldn't. However, if I can suggest things to make it better you might notice that it is better, even if you didn't think anything was wrong before.

Mainly, I'd like to see the animation improved and possibly I'd like it to not be possible to jump again right away. I'd also like to see an option to turn off the ability to see other players jump.

I'd appreciate it if we could talk about the merits of these kinds of ideas (which I'm not absolutely fixated on) instead of trying to imagine some mental defect I must have because this bothers me enough to ask about it.

100% AWESOME!

I am very impressed with the music.
It is a shame to me that Gridania is now Shrubbery like instead of Forest like... but oh well. It does make me wonder if what we are seeing now is 'Autumn', what with all the Red leaves.

I am very happy that we have to explore for map completion now. It'll be a fun LS event.

Sakura - I would have to agree, I think the animation for standing and running jump should show a difference, even if it is just an extra step to the animation

I have a suspicion that not all elements are put into place yet (inertia etc), but if they are then it is good that the developers hear the concerns ... as a whole it does not yet look finished...and it is important they know that we noticed.

first song reminded me of Spirited away immediately http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCpFe...eature=related

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Originally Posted by Tupster

I think you didn't quite understand what I meant. You said "This is your problem not mine" as if I wanted you to feel the same way I do. I'm not trying to convince players that do not see a problem. If it doesn't bother you I cannot make it bother you and I wouldn't. However, if I can suggest things to make it better you might notice that it is better, even if you didn't think anything was wrong before.

Mainly, I'd like to see the animation improved and possibly I'd like it to not be possible to jump again right away. I'd also like to see an option to turn off the ability to see other players jump.

I'd appreciate it if we could talk about the merits of these kinds of ideas (which I'm not absolutely fixated on) instead of trying to imagine some mental defect I must have because this bothers me enough to ask about it.

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Okay full stop right there. Time out.. Hold the horses.

Now you're suggesting in the bold and underline part a feature to block seeing people jump. What you're actually suggesting is a feature to see people go through or phase through fences and obstacles like if it wasn't there. I have to disagree with you on this one. I thought you wanted to make jump look better.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Okay full stop right there. Time out.. Hold the horses.

Now you're suggesting in the bold and underline part a feature to block seeing people jump. What you're actually suggesting is a feature to see people go through or phase through fences and obstacles like if it wasn't there. I have to disagree with you on this one. I thought you wanted to make jump look better?

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In FFXIV 1.0 you can walk though fences already... But I totally agree with you on that. I'm going to end up just praying that either people don't jump around like they used all the meth or that I get used to it :(

If I had to choose I'd rather people phase through things. All I see in these videos is people jumping. I do not choose to be bothered by it! It is honestly distracting to me.

It is simply astonishing how well the BGM works in this game. The dungeon theme, while still calm and soothing, gives you that sense that you have entered a dangerous area. A definite thumbs up to SOKEN and his team in making great music. Same thumbs up for the map designers. Everything gives me that Final Fantasy feeling so far, good work team.

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Originally Posted by Tupster

I didn't say remove jumping.
"Everybody is doing it" is not a reason to do something.
I'm saying that if you jump forward then it should actually look like a forward jump. It doesn't have to be realistic, but it should be plausible. It just looks weird as it is now. It is bad art and I'm sure you'd appreciate a better jump animation too.
I'm not sure at all what you mean about making a video of jumping. What does that mean?
"We play it to have fun" does not mean anything. Water is wet. So?

I do not mean to be hostile to other players, but I am still going to make my case to developers were I might be heard.

If you want to counter what I'm saying address the issue of jumping, not me.

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You would be surprised how many people (outside of the FF fanbase) were turned off by the lack of a standard jump feature on XIV. Leaving something that standard out of a new MMO just gets people wondering why it's left out. Having to walk around a little tiny fence is redundant. Having said that, While the animation isn't perfect, I would only accept an improvement (visually) if it didn't delay the jump at all. I don't want my character to squat completely, then jump, then land and have to balance himself, just so that the animation looks realistic. I'm all for making the game look better, but not at the expense of game-play mechanics.

There seems to be a lot of buildings. I really hope we can enter them and interact with the inhabitants.

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Originally Posted by Nox

You would be surprised how many people (outside of the FF fanbase) were turned off by the lack of a standard jump feature on XIV. Leaving something that standard out of a new MMO just gets people wondering why it's left out. Having to walk around a little tiny fence is redundant. Having said that, While the animation isn't perfect, I would only accept an improvement (visually) if it didn't delay the jump at all. I don't want my character to squat completely, then jump, then land and have to balance himself, just so that the animation looks realistic. I'm all for making the game look better, but not at the expense of game-play mechanics.

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Yeah, I do not like how FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 have invisible walls. Having a jump forces you do not have these invisible walls which is a great improvement. What I'd really like is something like Zelda 64 where you automatically jump when you push against something you can jump over, but it is too late for that I think.

I wouldn't be for a delay in the beginning and end of the jump. This isn't the original Prince of Persia. Just a "one leg in front of the other" jump you do when you are running.

http://www.athletedevelopment.com/wp...women-jump.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tupster

Yeah, I do not like how FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 have invisible walls. Having a jump forces you do not have these invisible walls which is a great improvement. What I'd really like is something like Zelda 64 where you automatically jump when you push against something you can jump over, but it is too late for that I think.

I wouldn't be for a delay in the beginning and end of the jump. This isn't the original Prince of Persia. Just a "one leg in front of the other" jump you do when you are running.

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I think a feature like the one in Ocarina of Time would be interesting, But I don't see how it would work in an MMO setting unless the game was completely action based. Even though the battle system in ARR is speeding up, I don't think it will be anything like the battle system in Ocarina of time. I admit though, this type of jump would be very interesting in a MMO.

I hope they plan on addressing the strange gliding-rotation post beta. That will always look strange to me.

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Originally Posted by Nox

I think a feature like the one in Ocarina of Time would be interesting, But I don't see how it would work in an MMO setting unless the game was completely action based. Even though the battle system in ARR is speeding up, I don't think it will be anything like the battle system in Ocarina of time. I admit though, this type of jump would be very interesting in a MMO.

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We have not seen if you can jump during combat. I hope you can actually, since maybe it could be integrated into some raid bosses (like kneeling saves you from Odin's astral flow in FFXI). One thing about having an automatic zelda jump is that you could make jumping an important part of navigating dungeons. With the current jump they might think it is too twitchy to ever require players to have to jump to actually do anything except take a shortcut.

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Originally Posted by TTred

I hope they plan on addressing the strange gliding-rotation post beta. That will always look strange to me.

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One question I have for the devs is, how do you rotate the camera to look at your character from the front if the character glides around?

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Originally Posted by Tupster

We have not seen if you can jump during combat. I hope you can actually, since maybe it could be integrated into some raid bosses (like kneeling saves you from Odin's astral flow in FFXI). One thing about having an automatic zelda jump is that you could make jumping an important part of navigating dungeons. With the current jump they might think it is too twitchy to ever require players to have to jump to actually do anything except take a shortcut.

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I believe they said at the moment they aren't planing on jump being integrated into battle, although quite a decent amount of people on here requested that a few months back. However, I don't think they said anything about not incorporating it in dungeons as a way to reach certain areas. I think that it would work well if it's used for say, getting to a higher elevation in a dungeon (like jumping on rocks or something to get to the top floor). I would like to see stuff like this, and even battle oriented jump mechanics (jumping to avoid an earthquake like attack and such) I suppose only time will tell with these type of situations were jump could be used for more than simply shortcuts.

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Originally Posted by Aion

BOLD

yeah I notice that too. Initially I thought it is because some draw distance, but I saw the video show someone running a bit far from yoshida. Maybe indeed it has limitation on displaying x amount of characters on one spot. Maybe it depends on our rig also. But at least, they pop instantly lol

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My Kingdom for that fluidity in End of an Era live event :D.
Now @ Tupster seems like you didn't pay attention at the last live letter but there were a LOT of ppl that zoomed into Yoshi-P's view and were turning around on the spot and were doing 1.0's stepping animation.
And another thing ..you don't like jump animation for Miqo'te? tell me how a cat lands on their paws? what's wrong with not almost hitting the ground with your ass when jumping? you don't know how firm their legs are or the gravity of Hydaelin
It's a cool jump like this one:
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp...hf9zo1_500.gif

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Originally Posted by Tupster

Blah blah

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First 16 posts on the forums and it is all in one thread... and this isn't even that big of a thread yet... has anyone ever told you you talk too much hmm? Also you have a very odd fascination with jumps... I was going to say lucky your not on my server but hehehe... hehe... oh the fun...

The silly aside...
The video was nice I liked the music and how the map is done... very good... also the area is looking so much better then the 1.0 Black Shroud... I love the openness and how the trees look... the changing of the leaves was a nice look as well... I love the color...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Now @ Tupster seems like you didn't pay attention at the last live letter but there were a LOT of ppl that zoomed into Yoshi-P's view and were turning around on the spot and were doing 1.0's stepping animation.
And another thing ..you don't jump animation for Miqo'te? tell me how a cat lands on their paws? what's wrong with not almost hitting the ground with your ass when jumping? you don't know how firm their legs are or the gravity of Hydaelin
It's a cool jump like this one: http://s83.beta.photobucket.com/user...orld2.gif.html

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I'm not sure what you mean about not paying attention. I've watched it a couple of times already. Could you be more specific about what I missed? (sincere question) The "shuffling" animation from WoW looks stupid, but the equivalent animation in FFXIV 1.0 was always much better. In the current videos of the alpha however there is no animation at all, the character just skates.

That image is of a standing jump (or landing?). I'm talking about the running jump. I think it would actually be half impossible to jump like that if you are running (and no reason you'd want to).

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

First 16 posts on the forums and it is all in one thread... and this isn't even that big of a thread yet... has anyone ever told you you talk too much hmm? Also you have a very odd fascination with jumps... I was going to say lucky your not on my server but hehehe... hehe... oh the fun...

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I was thinking maybe that was the case. I'm used to being on forums that move very fast and were I reply to everything that is said, but everybody else does too, so it works. Umm, if that is unusual here then I'll cool it some.

Listen up SE. We know you can produce pretty graphics. Can we get something that shows us examples of gameplay, etc... This was really boring

Soooo much nicer... Still looks crazy huge, but wow. I really can't think of the proper words, I'm just very impressed and already getting rather hyped. x.x

Woah, I am stunned.

Absolutely beautiful game, beautiful BGM.

I'm a little curious as to why the BGM faded out so quickly the first couple of times? But- wow, I've just rewatched it again and everything looks -so- amazing, and the shadow rendering looks like it's finally something I'll be happy with the looks of. Love the variance in colour palette, especially in the dungeon-type darker area.

So beautiful. <3

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Originally Posted by Tupster

I'm not sure what you mean about not paying attention. I've watched it a couple of times already. Could you be more specific about what I missed? (sincere question) The "shuffling" animation from WoW looks stupid, but the equivalent animation in FFXIV 1.0 was always much better. In the current videos of the alpha however there is no animation at all, the character just skates.

That image is of a standing jump (or landing?). I'm talking about the running jump. I think it would actually be half impossible to jump like that if you are running (and no reason you'd want to).

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Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...iZCHXg#t=1826s
The archers on his right where he gets to that spot and they arrive they turn around on the spot stepping style

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Originally Posted by Tupster

I was thinking maybe that was the case. I'm used to being on forums that move very fast and were I reply to everything that is said, but everybody else does too, so it works. Umm, if that is unusual here then I'll cool it some.

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No need to cool it silly head... most people don't get that I like to poke and have fun... but I will say this to your post above this one. There is actually a turning motion most people don't seem to catch... it is not shown in this video here but it has appeared in others. The lack of motion here is because there is no animation tied to the camera turn or at least it appears there is none yet at this time... if you watch some of the other videos out there you can see a normal turning motion tied to someone actually turning and not using the camera to turn...

I will give you one thing of credit though... at least you are posting in this thread about this video instead of in the general discussion forums... since this thread is for alpha talk and on the video... most people don't seem to get that is why they made a different forum section for these things...

Oh well...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

No need to cool it silly head...

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Great! I actually do not want sound so critical since I'm actually really excited, but I was thinking that this is the place and time to point out every thing that bothers me. There are actually lots of things I like (like the fact that the world actually seems interesting and explorable like it did in FFXI!), but I'd rather try to provide feedback on the things that bother me now while they still might make a difference.

I do wonder why the character turns when you turn the camera because I turn the camera backwards while I'm running around all the time (but I use a controller). Maybe it is just the particular mode they have the controls in (using a mouse?).

They didn't listen last time and look what happened. So I think they are really apt to listen now.

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Originally Posted by Tupster

Great! I actually do not want sound so critical since I'm actually really excited, but I was thinking that this is the place and time to point out every thing that bothers me. There are actually lots of things I like (like the fact that the world actually seems interesting and explorable like it did in FFXI!), but I'd rather try to provide feedback on the things that bother me now while they still might make a difference.

I do wonder why the character turns when you turn the camera because I turn the camera backwards while I'm running around all the time (but I use a controller). Maybe it is just the particular mode they have the controls in (using a mouse?).

They didn't listen last time and look what happened. So I think they are really apt to listen now.

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Bold for over the top self entitlement delusion.
And for the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 time It's not the same team it's not the same Director stop comparing 1.0 alpha to this ...that's an insult.. stop it...

I absolutely love this! However, I do have some problems with it as well:

The areas, while populated with NPCs, feel...dead. Empty. I'm not talking about the lack of players, but the lack of things going on with NPCs. They just stand there not doing anything. I wish they would have voice clips that loop, do some gestures......something. They can have merchants say something like "Come one come all! I have wares for sale!" every 5 minutes or so or that guild leve NPC say "Dare to take up the challenge, adventurer?". Throw in some kids running around playing tag, throwing rocks at each other, animals roaming around, rodents sneaking into houses, people arguing (with voices), etc. Those are just ideas.

I also really can't stand these new animations. They feel so generic. The animations XIV has now make my character and all of the characters feel more life like. It's like they are putting so much detail into everything but the animations.

I hate to complain because I get that SE has put a tremendous amount of work into re-launching XIV.

This may have been mentioned before (only noticed it now because I could watch it in fullscreen).

However, Hurray for the Mini-map displaying co-ordinates :)

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Bold for over the top self entitlement delusion.
And for the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 time It's not the same team it's not the same Director stop comparing 1.0 alpha to this ...that's an insult.. stop it...

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That is simply not fair. I'm giving my opinion because they seem genuinely interested. I'm not at all saying they have to do anything except make the best product they can and then I'll decide if I want to buy it. You may have said something like this 1 undecillion times, but you never said it to me.

In any case, it is the company Square Enix which has done a 180 on how they treat their players and this is self evident. Even if I feel self entitled and dilusioned how could you imply it is not a good thing that SE has changed the way they approach their players. I happen to think it is potentially revolutionary what they are doing and would like them to go further. (And not because I believe I'm entitled but because it is good for everybody involved).

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Originally Posted by Tupster

I do wonder why the character turns when you turn the camera because I turn the camera backwards while I'm running around all the time (but I use a controller). Maybe it is just the particular mode they have the controls in (using a mouse?).

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It is as you just said it is a different mode for the camera... I think WoW even has these two different modes. One you turn the camera around your character and the others you turn your character with the camera. They may still attach the turning animation to the camera turn later on... this is still Alpha after all and Yoshi has pointed out that they are getting lots and lots of good feedback so far...

I'm not sure if it was you that posted about this or it was in a different thread all together but during the live letter when some of the characters are popping in and out of being seen while still technically in the camera view of Yoshi is because of the large number of characters that are sitting around him... they had around 800+ characters in that zone alone and there is no telling how many are sitting on top of Yoshi and running with him. I will say it was still impressive to see that many characters on the screen and Yoshi not even slowing down at all...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

I will say it was still impressive to see that many characters on the screen and Yoshi not even slowing down at all...

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I completely agree. The number of visible models was simply amazing even if it wasn't absolutely perfect. For years I had a theory that Square Enix only had graphics experts but their Network and User Interface guys were just hacks who wouldn't cut it anywhere and they must have nobody who really understands how to make something for PC.

The work on version 2.0 tells me that they finally got their act together on this because the network, ui, and pc issues all seem to be a thing of the past. If they had done this well when FFXI came out then I honestly believe that WoW and FFXI would be two rival MMORPGs instead of it just being WoW.

Edit: Thinking a little more, they would have also have made FFXI a little less hard core, but I still think technical issues were FFXI's main problem.

That really looks great! I can't wait to explore this world.

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Originally Posted by Tupster

Jumping seems to serve almost no purpose except to make me wonder why somebody is jumping. I was going to wait to complain until I saw how nervous players would be, but after seeing the Live Letter and now even this video where the PR rep can't keep from jumping, I must say that I really hate the jumping. It is really distracting. It looks bad (one should jump differently if one is running vs. standing still). It also seems like it will actually be unneeded to actually get anywhere.

The jumping needs to be fixed.

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In light of this, next time SE releases a gameplay video they need to add captions every time the character jumps like "Take this, jump haters!", "Gettin' me some AIR!", "Wheee! I'm jumping!" and "Hope someone doesn't get mad at me! ^_~".

Nice tour of the Shroud and Bentbranch.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

In light of this, next time SE releases a gameplay video they need to add captions every time the character jumps like "Take this, jump haters!", "Gettin' me some AIR!", "Wheee! I'm jumping!" and "Hope someone doesn't get mad at me! ^_~".

Nice tour of the Shroud and Bentbranch.

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LOL, *you* could make that video and I would probably laugh quite a bit. I'm still going to try and see if I can't convince them to make it less silly.

New zones look really good, especially the lighting engine. Was good demonstration in the cave. Water looks sweet too. But Devs i got a favor to ask: please Dont JUMP when it is NOT NEEDED. I know you want to demonstrate how it works, but we've seen it too many times by now!

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Originally Posted by Tupster

Just a "one leg in front of the other" jump you do when you are running.

http://www.athletedevelopment.com/wp...women-jump.jpg

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This. The jumping through pushing off with both feet while running is just way too odd.

I loved the video :D every bit of it Black Shroud looks amazing!! nothing seems copy pasted! wherever you look is different! :D I don't get it how some people want NPCs to act like they are from a circus they live in a damn forest w/o TV and internet what do you want them to talk about? and remember nearly everyone died thanks to Bahamut so you wont see that many people around. all in all i can't wait to explore this game!

Excellent video. Thank you.

I can't put into words how impressed I am with these new areas. They look amazing! One of the best parts about the new environments is the sense of scale they provide. The world seems big and vast, unlike many MMOs whose worlds come across as strangely miniature-sized. The 2.0 environments seem real. I also love the attention to detail and the care that has obviously gone into creating even the "mundane" sections of the forest. This is a complete 180 from version 1.0, and it's starting to remind me of the Final Fantasy worlds I used to know.

Soken has outdone himself again with the music. It's beautiful and it fits the areas perfectly. For me part of the excitement of exploring this world will be getting to hear all of the new background tracks.

You know, I'd be perfectly happy if this video just ran on for an hour or two. This looks to be almost everything I could have wanted out of the reincarnation of the Black Shroud. I certainly never thought that I'd see anything like this back in December of 2010. Dev team, I'd reach through the computer and give you a hug if I could.

...though I guess that would be kind of weird. Never mind. :o

Is it just me or does it seem like the shading model has been simplified? In version 1.0 it seems like we have a full modern diffuse/specular/bump/gloss map, but I'm only noticing diffuse/bump in these videos (except for water and aetherites). The result is that everything looks a little plain. I'd have to see a character in shiny armor to be sure, but I haven't gotten a good look.

Maybe I should go check out the old limit break trailer and see if I can make out how things are shaded.

However it seems to me that they have simplified the animation and the shading for the PS3. I don't mind as long as it looks good, but the complex shading was one thing that really made FFXIV version 1.0 stand out.

I really liked how, using a gloss map, you can make cloth look soft, leather look leathery, and armor look metallic. It lent a kind of reality to how your gear looked that was really compelling.