Live Letter Alpha rubber-banding and lag

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Originally Posted by Thunderz

I don't want to BETA test a game again

if they screw up ARR I won't play this game simple fact

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No problem
Just send me your beta key if you get one ^^

And before we can give feedback how good or bad the servers work during alpha we should first play the alpha ourself.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

So just because ARR Alpha is looking better than 1.0's terrible server structure means that it's flawless and can't be criticized or improved upon?

Saying that it's only Alpha/Beta as a defense for the game is what's overused and what happened too much for 1.0.

Oh, and yeah, I was there for the 11th event.

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people, this is the example of "putting words into mouth"

who said we cant criticize?? but please, put your effort into better criticism. like previous posters said, developers are AWARE of the lag issue. I kinda tired seeing same point being spoken again and again, while the devs are already address the problem.

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Originally Posted by Aion

people, this is the example of "putting words into mouth"

who said we cant criticize?? but please, put your effort into better criticism. like previous posters said, developers are AWARE of the lag issue. I kinda tired seeing same point being spoken again and again, while the devs are already address the problem.

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He was bashing the idea of criticizing game elements just because they had seen some improvement over 1.0. I hardly think I was putting words into his mouth.

"It's just like 1.0 testing all over again"

These comments annoy me cause they blame the testers for the fail game we had at launch. If you were around back then you'd know we slung tons of complaints at SE about everything and they chose to ignore it or brush it off as non-important. It was in no part us testers who failed to point out the errors it was the company who allowed us to test who left all our feedback outside in the cold to starve and die.

Difference this time around? SE has TONS to lose on this project and this game better be the shiniest diamond in the store or lots of people will probably be without jobs. Also the man in charge actually listens to feedback and our words are not smacking against a wall and falling to their doom.

Now please stop trying to play the "This was the problem with 1.0" cause it's not 1.0 and it was not the problem with 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

"It's just like 1.0 testing all over again"

These comments annoy me cause they blame the testers for the fail game we had at launch. If you were around back then you'd know we slung tons of complaints at SE about everything and they chose to ignore it or brush it off as non-important. It was in no part us testers who failed to point out the errors it was the company who allowed us to test who left all our feedback outside in the cold to starve and die.

Difference this time around? SE has TONS to lose on this project and this game better be the shiniest diamond in the store or lots of people will probably be without jobs. Also the man in charge actually listens to feedback and our words are not smacking against a wall and falling to their doom.

Now please stop trying to play the "This was the problem with 1.0" cause it's not 1.0 and it was not the problem with 1.0.

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Well, the testers that gave their criticism in 1.0 Alpha/Beta aren't the ones people are talking about, because they had the right attitude by providing feedback. And of course, the other problem was that SE ignored the feedback that they did get.

All in all, it takes two things in the testing phases to be successful. One, players providing feedback and Two, a company that listens and acts on said feedback. If either are lacking then problems can arise.

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Originally Posted by IloveYouPumpkin

Exactly what I wanted to see. Every other post is just talk. Thank you.

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Didn't I link this earlier in this thread? Or is that a different thread that people think I was lying

That's some strange rubber banding. It almost looks like everyone in the vicinity of Yoshi-P is being forcibly kept in one small area, considering it's hard to tell if the people trying to run off screen actually got off screen or not from just eyeballing it.

Lag is going to be a big issue in alpha. Server stress and capabilities should typically be the first thing they look to try and stabilize. (which they have said they're working on.) When it gets further along in alpha, if players aren't seeing an improvement, I'm sure it will be given heavy feedback. And it probably already is being brought up.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

Well, the testers that gave their criticism in 1.0 Alpha/Beta aren't the ones people are talking about, because they had the right attitude by providing feedback. And of course, the other problem was that SE ignored the feedback that they did get.

All in all, it takes two things in the testing phases to be successful. One, players providing feedback and Two, a company that listens and acts on said feedback. If either are lacking then problems can arise.

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Yea but none of these "Players" giving feedback are part of the current test phase so posting topics complaining about things that have been addressed or may be addressed before these "players" even get into testing is kinda pointless.

Yes there are some things that I have seen in ARR videos that I hope get addressed and if these things are not fixed before I get invited to test it it'll be one of the many things I'll be submitting feedback on when the time comes. There is no need to whine and gripe about it now in General Discussion.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

He was bashing the idea of criticizing game elements just because they had seen some improvement over 1.0. I hardly think I was putting words into his mouth.

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the point is, there is improvement regarding lag, and the dev itself said it still worked on. So what is the point of this thread again?

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

This is exactly the attitude that got us the 1.0 launch. Don't assume that SE will fix everything to your expectations if you don't say anything about it.

Please please criticize this game if you see problems with it. If you don't, how else will SE know what you want or where they need improvement?

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Yoshi-P said in the live letter that a lot of these things still need work and that he is not yet satisfied with it. And like what was posted earlier, which I thought I posted but I don't think I did, they are aware of the issue of what this OP is talking about, and they're fixing it over the next week. So, they already knew about what this thread is arguing over.

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Originally Posted by IloveYouPumpkin

Thank you for that.

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Thanks for your sarcasm.

And thank you everyone else who understood what I meant.

I think it’s a major improvement compare to what the finally shutdown version was 200+ people one area crashes a server! To the newer version where there were a bunch of people that I couldn't have counted during an hour plus live stream and did not crash once I say that is something to celebrate about. Think a bunch of us have a sour taste still lingering in our mouths from the first release, but I think they learn their lesson and have new leadership so giving them my confidence that they will do it right this time on coding the engine etc.

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Originally Posted by odintius

I think it’s a major improvement compare to what the finally shutdown version was 200+ people one area crashes a server! To the newer version where there were a bunch of people that I couldn't have counted during an hour plus live stream and did not crash once I say that is something to celebrate about. Think a bunch of us have a sour taste still lingering in our mouths from the first release, but I think they learn their lesson and have new leadership so giving them my confidence that they will do it right this time on coding the engine etc.

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People just have issues letting go of the past, this past year Yoshi-P has proved time and time again that he is listening to us and considering everything we throw at him. Tanaka probly said a grand total of 6 words to us during his days as boss and left most if not all our concerns unanswered or even acknowledged.

We have had players polls, forums topics and other things that were analyzed and implemented or promised to us by the devs. Hell I made a thread asking for a font size changer because as a legally blind player I am bound to low resolution just so i can read the chat. Not even 2 days after I posted said topic a Community Rep chimed in saying my request was passed along and was slated for the next patch which is was then added to the game.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

in the 1.0 alpha, just getting off the ferry dock at the beginning of the game was an exercise in frustration. People don't really realize how much a game usually changes from alpha to release. 1.0 changed a lot from alpha to middle-of-beta, the problem was it didn't change from beta to release.

We're not regressing. I haven't played one MMO where there was rubberbanding that was not caused by poor connectivity. Rubberbanding in any online game occurs when your client and server eaach believe you are in a different location than you actually are- this is generally caused by severe lag, not any particular flaw in the client or server itself.

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i know exactly what causes Rubber banding, and I've played more than my fare share of games where i've encountered rubber banding in a low lantancy, high bandwidth setting. not once in 1.0 did i ever rubber band, sure it took an hour for people to show up but no one ever slung across my screen.

perhaps there running the server with a lower TTL and maybe they could tighten up the settings but this issue is one alot of developers fail to bother with and more often then not pawn it off as an issue on the players end. if your servers cant handle 800 people, now is the time to upgrade.

Although I agree that this Thread is pretty much irrelevant, it only bolsters my opinion that THIS was the most important information out of the Live 4:

Wada: Our company policy is to release once Yoshida-san is ready so please look forward and wait till then.

I alpha, beta tested 1.0. There were severe improvements to server stability by the time closed hit phase 3. However, almost every bit of feedback the players tried to give fell on deaf ears. All of us back during those testing days felt that most when they announced the release date for 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Yolteotl

Although I agree that this Thread is pretty much irrelevant, it only bolsters my opinion that THIS was the most important information out of the Live 4:

Wada: Our company policy is to release once Yoshida-san is ready so please look forward and wait till then.

I alpha, beta tested 1.0. There were severe improvements to server stability by the time closed hit phase 3. However, almost every bit of feedback the players tried to give fell on deaf ears. All of us back during those testing days felt that most when they announced the release date for 1.0.

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Yep, that's why I am glad Yoshi-P is at the helm and has the full backing of SE instead of them jumping over his head 2 days into beta and hitting the launch button.

My reaction when they anounced the release of 1.0 was "........But they haven't even addressed the major issues let alone the truckload of others piling up by the hour..... they must be crazy"

Lol I remember one of my biggest hang-ups was the XP exploit by doing the opening sequence over and over... at least they got rid of that by launch

I know it's possible, but I have my doubts on there being a lagless experience at launch. It isn't realistic because of the massive amount of players congested in the beginning content... But if i see the same 'Connection Error's I will cry... Ill keep playing but with tears lol

They fixed that exploit but people just hopped to the next one, spamming cure aoe on 15 people regardless of missing health or not granted 750SP per person per cast. There were R50 THMs and CNJs day 2 of early access and they did the rollback on them and patched that exploit too.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

They fixed that exploit but people just hopped to the next one, spamming cure aoe on 15 people regardless of missing health or not granted 750SP per person per cast. There were R50 THMs and CNJs day 2 of early access and they did the rollback on them and patched that exploit too.

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LOL I didnt know about that one.

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Originally Posted by Yolteotl

LOL I didnt know about that one.

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Sad part was they made it so you got next to nothing from healing only as Conjurer which is what I was aiming to be. I did like 30 rank 20 leves in a group of 15 people and got a grand total of 250 SP from buffing and healing an entire group while those who were like rank 10ish left at rank 17+.

Anyway the bad days are behind us let us look forward to ARR and hope they put as much if not more work into then they did the past few months of 1.0.

Look on the bright side. Maybe it's rubber-banding, but the game is capable of showing so many characters at once now that you can barely notice the grass.

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.......

BWAHAHAHHAA

Remember the days of walking naked from San D'oria to Jueno to get your chocobo license completed? I miss unnecessary challenges like that.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

The difference with 1.0 is that Tanaka wouldn't admit

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The difference is, Tanaka stated XIV needed more time due to problems but the higher ups said and felt otherwise.

Did you really expect a game in alpha to be flawless?

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

Did you really expect a game in alpha to be flawless?

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Look at it realistically: Developers, especially western ones, treat Alpha and Betas as early Demos these days, so yes, it pretty much become expected that they're "flawless" thanks to mainstream.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

This is exactly the attitude that got us the 1.0 launch. Don't assume that SE will fix everything to your expectations if you don't say anything about it.

Please please criticize this game if you see problems with it. If you don't, how else will SE know what you want or where they need improvement?

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No it's not. All kinds of players spoke up about it. People assumed it would be fixed and defended SE, but it's not those players fault that SE didn't actually fix the issues. Don't blame SE's mistakes on the alpha/beta testers when the tester's were very vocal about the issues.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

The difference with 1.0 is that Tanaka wouldn't admit there were problems with the game. He was not frank and open about how things were, what wasn't right and what needed fixing. Even to this day, after leaving SE, he won't admit that he screwed up. He passively puts the blame on the developers/designers he was directing.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The difference is, Tanaka stated XIV needed more time due to problems but the higher ups said and felt otherwise.

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Actually, none of you two knows what happened with 1.0. It' something none of us will ever know, and it was probably not a single issue, but a combination.

Yet, I'm amazed that this trainwreck of a thread is still going on and some people still wonder why there's lag with an army of characters in the same area, or are any surprised by it. It happens in every MMORPG, no matter the server structure. With that many characters on screen there'll be a degree of lag even in the finished game. If you think there won't be, you're overestimating yoshida. I don't think he has a license for miracles yet. If you think it's a problem, I wonder if you ever played a MMORPG.

we just need a GW2 player to tell his testimony on playing with hundreds of people on his screen, if ARR can surpass that, it will be great success already

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Originally Posted by Aion

we just need a GW2 player to tell his testimony on playing with hundreds of people on his screen, if ARR can surpass that, it will be great success already

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There's plenty server lag.

Graphical lag is limited, but that's because the game is made with an engine from 2005.

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Originally Posted by Rex

It's alpha. This is exactly what they're testing. They have (triple digit number) of players, plus mobs / NPCs, and they're testing the limits of the zone capacity. I'm assuming all of the things you've mentioned are side effects. They said they're fixing the issue for the next week and then continuing the testing for 5 days after that, and then opening it up for global alpha.

Don't criticize like the game is the finished product. They're just under half a year from release.

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Hey Rex,
Can you post a link to where your sig was originally posted? I never read that before lol.

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Originally Posted by Royze

Hey Rex,
Can you post a link to where your sig was originally posted? I never read that before lol.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...471#post318471

On topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRiu49mOKFI

If we're talking about server lag and alphas, we can't forget how awful the original Final Fantasy XIV alpha was. Constantly being in yellow connection, several seconds between activating a skill/ability and it actually happening, etc. This stuff was cleaned up a lot from alpha to beta, but wasn't completely removed even past launch. I blame this entirely on Square-Enix rushing the game out.

All of the new alpha footage we've seen is leaps and bounds more polished than the first version. If you deny this, you clearly need to have your eyes examined. That doesn't mean it's not without flaws. Yes, there's still server lag, which the devs have acknowledged and have addressed that they're working on.

Not to sound like an apologist over this, but given Yoshi-P's track record with the game, I suggest calming down and waiting for the final product before making complaints. The game has been improved drastically under his leadership, so I don't see why it would suddenly get worse (I'm not talking aesthetics like walking movement/grass either, shush). Let the alpha testers test the game, so they can give their feedback on issues like the rubberbanding. I'm pretty sure every single person who is an alpha/beta tester wants nothing more than this game to be the best that it can be.

We have to be vocal about serious issues otherwise they can and will be overlooked.

Of course you should be tactful about the way you report it (not like "Fucking shitty game 0/10 would not buy").

I don't care if I hurt the forum goers feelings, or SE's for that matter, as long as they are aware of the issue. Those of you that can't handle any kind of negativity seriously need to go elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

We have to be vocal about serious issues otherwise they can and will be overlooked.

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Yes. When they are serious issues, and not when they're endemic of the genre and the situation. In this case, it's the second.

There's a large difference between identifying a serious issue, and thinking you know better, when you don't.

sounds like a hot xxx scene @ 1:13:13

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

We have to be vocal about serious issues otherwise they can and will be overlooked.

Of course you should be tactful about the way you report it (not like "Fucking shitty game 0/10 would not buy").

I don't care if I hurt the forum goers feelings, or SE's for that matter, as long as they are aware of the issue. Those of you that can't handle any kind of negativity seriously need to go elsewhere.

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Us being vocal here does practically nothing. We haven't played the game, we have little credibility on the issue of anything 2.0. You know whose criticism does matter? Those in the alpha and those who will be in the alpha/beta. The devs are more inclined to listen to them because they've, you know, actually played the game.

or you could leave the alpha testing to, umm i don't know.. the alpha testers maybe?

but i am certain if those problems appeared during the alpha while hundreds of testers were running around, not a single one mentioned this incredibly obvious bug in their reports

without the keen eyes of this forum we would be doomed for sure

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/169/42...4809bd7b35.jpg

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Originally Posted by Yumi_Hibiki

without the keen eyes of this forum we would be doomed for sure

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You're forgetting the deep knowledge of game development and netcode engineering in their every aspect that obviously permeates the forum posters around here.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You're forgetting the deep knowledge of game development and netcode engineering in their every aspect that obviously permeates the forum posters around here.

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We spotted the grass- you still haven't said thank you enough.

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Originally Posted by Royze

We spotted the grass- you still haven't said thank you enough.

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Probably because no thanks are necessary or even warranted.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Probably because no thanks are necessary or even warranted.

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From your statements I cant tell that you are not a grass person. Even though grass has provided millions with joy for at least the past 300 years.