Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]

The devs should be focusing on gameplay and designing end-game content. Get you priorities straight. I swear, you idiots ruin everything.

Keep in mind this is Final Fantasy. Not Real life. THe Twelve have no issue with it. Actually there is same gender love mentioned throughout npc's.

Real life religious ideals, personal feelings, are irrelevant in Erozea. Hate the Galeans no others in the game.

Takes very little to alter code to allow it. It's not an issue pof priorty since in character coding, it takes more to block the ring trade and character scripting between sexes, then it does to not.

That's so cute, I mean why would marriage be part of a MMORPG lore. lol..
You want better instances, a delievery box, a auction house. Some people want to be married. Your priorities are not their priorities nor are they more important.

I don't care about being able to get married in game, because I remember how the process was with FFXI. Screw that nonsense.

I'd just like to personally thank Square-Enix for reminding me that even in a made up world, homosexuality is a problem. Nothing brings me more joy than being reminded I'm different, and what I'm not allowed to do because of it.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte.../yes-rudy1.gif

In FFXI my character was "engaged" to someone else's character.... Both of us are married women in real life. It was just role playing. (She played a boy Tarutaru named TheCheat and her actual husband played a Galka named Trogdor.)

The only reason we never went through the official wedding was cuz she dumped me for WoW (hehehe.)

I like the idea of everyone having unions instead of calling it marriage. Leave "marriage" as a real life religious ceremony, but give some acknowledgement to the unique bonds that people of any gender can develop with each other.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

I dont think a poll is appropriate for this topic. The fragility of the topic goes beyond this simple game, it could negatively affect the company and it's brands if mishandled.

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There is no such thing as fragility of a topic when it comes to people's rights.

Claiming this subject is sensitive or a big issue is like saying we can't talk about genocide or slavery because the nazi's or kkk might get upset by it.

There is a simple truth here
If you allow it, people will be happy WITHOUT affecting anyone else
If you don't allow it, a lot of people will be hurt or offended and it will be promoting discrimination

that simple.

Marriage isn't supposed to be between a mithra and a galka either, so gender should -not- even be an issue in this game.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

I'd just like to personally thank Square-Enix for reminding me that even in a made up world, homosexuality is a problem. Nothing brings me more joy than being reminded I'm different, and what I'm not allowed to do because of it.

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I've never been one to post a whole lot on community forums, but I really felt the need to say something on this topic.

KiriA500, I know how you feel buddy. I was actually really worried about reading through this thread, for fear of hateful messages from nasty people. But now I'm sitting here, feeling tearful, totally blown away by the amount of support for equality, and the maturity of all the people posting. Even if SE doesn't change their minds, I'm just so happy knowing that there is still a supportive community out there.

It may not seem like much of an issue to most people, but for a few of us, this is a something that cuts straight to our hearts.

Thank you all so much ;_;

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

I wouldn't take advantage of the marriage facility and wouldn't care if there was no marriage facility at all.
BUT.
Not allowing same gender marriage is discrimination. Discrimination should be fought wherever it is. Allowing discrimination to continue in one part of culture makes it seem more acceptable in others.

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Whilst I do agree with you there are many cultures still that will not allow it irl, for example Christians see homosexuality as a sin, if these people knew their child was homosexual they may disown them, or worse. Now imagine these people's parents finding out the married someone of the same sex in game, they could think the player is homosexual because of it, or say that the game is encouraging homosexuality. As someone has said you have seen how some people thing games like GTA is turning all our kids into gun toting murderers/drink drivers/gangsters etc.

If FFXIV got this stigma of encouraging homosexuality it could give SE a bad name, etc. They need to tread carefully to add it, which I personally hope they do. It's not a matter of morality it's a matter of how they want everyone to see SE as a whole.

I personally don't care for gay sex marriage and don't see why it bothers anybody. Though SE will upset people either way. IMO, SE should do all or nothing - include gay sex marriage or just don't include the system at all.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Whilst I do agree with you there are many cultures still that will not allow it irl, for example Christians see homosexuality as a sin, if these people knew their child was homosexual they may disown them, or worse. Now imagine these people's parents finding out the married someone of the same sex in game, they could think the player is homosexual because of it, or say that the game is encouraging homosexuality. As someone has said you have seen how some people thing games like GTA is turning all our kids into gun toting murderers/drink drivers/gangsters etc.

If FFXIV got this stigma of encouraging homosexuality it could give SE a bad name, etc. They need to tread carefully to add it, which I personally hope they do. It's not a matter of morality it's a matter of how they want everyone to see SE as a whole.

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This is like saying if you had a game where a jewish character was the hero, you would stigmatize the game with neo-nazis.

I get your point. But the more important point is that it is completely unethical to take people who discriminate into consideration.

Just because a group of people don't support equality of the right for people to be who they are and be happy, does not mean game companies should go out of their way to please them.

And the argument that marriage is for a man and woman only is just a veiled hate argument.
If I'm athiest I can go get married to a Satanist, denounce god, do a bunch of sinful stuff, but it will still be ok if i'm a boy and shes a girl. But if 2 men or 2 women want to get married who go to church every sunday and believe in god (and tons of churches are totally fine with them getting married) then it is somehow the end of the world.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Whilst I do agree with you there are many cultures still that will not allow it irl, for example Christians see homosexuality as a sin, if these people knew their child was homosexual they may disown them, or worse. Now imagine these people's parents finding out the married someone of the same sex in game, they could think the player is homosexual because of it, or say that the game is encouraging homosexuality. As someone has said you have seen how some people thing games like GTA is turning all our kids into gun toting murderers/drink drivers/gangsters etc.

If FFXIV got this stigma of encouraging homosexuality it could give SE a bad name, etc. They need to tread carefully to add it, which I personally hope they do. It's not a matter of morality it's a matter of how they want everyone to see SE as a whole.

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Why would real world religions have any factor into what goes into this game? Technically, none of them should be playing this anyway, as our characters don't worship the same gods as their respective religions.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Why would real world religions have any factor into what goes into this game? Technically, none of them should be playing this anyway, as our characters don't worship the same gods as their respective religions.

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I always found the thought of a christian playing a video game to be kind of hilarous.

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Originally Posted by KamikazeMan

I personally don't care for gay sex marriage and don't see why it bothers anybody. Though SE will upset people either way. IMO, SE should do all or nothing - include gay sex marriage or just don't include the system at all.

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Oh my o_O;;; they're making it?! +18 :O

;P Just kidding, but that typo made me chuckle :)

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Whilst I do agree with you there are many cultures still that will not allow it irl, for example Christians see homosexuality as a sin, if these people knew their child was homosexual they may disown them, or worse. Now imagine these people's parents finding out the married someone of the same sex in game, they could think the player is homosexual because of it, or say that the game is encouraging homosexuality. As someone has said you have seen how some people thing games like GTA is turning all our kids into gun toting murderers/drink drivers/gangsters etc.

If FFXIV got this stigma of encouraging homosexuality it could give SE a bad name, etc. They need to tread carefully to add it, which I personally hope they do. It's not a matter of morality it's a matter of how they want everyone to see SE as a whole.

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I rather think it would be applause for championing fairness and equality rather than a stigma for encouraging homosexuality.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Whilst I do agree with you there are many cultures still that will not allow it irl, for example Christians see homosexuality as a sin, if these people knew their child was homosexual they may disown them, or worse. Now imagine these people's parents finding out the married someone of the same sex in game, they could think the player is homosexual because of it, or say that the game is encouraging homosexuality. As someone has said you have seen how some people thing games like GTA is turning all our kids into gun toting murderers/drink drivers/gangsters etc.

If FFXIV got this stigma of encouraging homosexuality it could give SE a bad name, etc. They need to tread carefully to add it, which I personally hope they do. It's not a matter of morality it's a matter of how they want everyone to see SE as a whole.

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Im a christian and im also VERY bisexual. I hope im not going to hell D: No one told me this ; ;

I'm ok with same sex marriages as long as its two females.
That is compromise.
Lets see if the other team can meet me half way at this?

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Originally Posted by Issachar

I dont think a poll is appropriate for this topic. The fragility of the topic goes beyond this simple game, it could negatively affect the company and it's brands if mishandled.

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Not allowing it could just as easily blow up in thier face. I say allow same sex marriage in game or no marriage at all. Make things equal in the interest of fairness.

It would be pointless to prohibit it, as you can freely chose your gender in FFXIV.

Anyway : who seriously care about marriage in a video game ?

actually, sure why the heck not... I mean we already have beastiality (cross-species relationships) in the game. Galka on Taru, Mithra on Elvaan. Anything goes. I wanna marry a Gobbeu.

Can we have Polygamy as well? I want my own army of wives.

Too many people to quote in regards to my last post, as I said I do agree with you about allowing it, but this is just a taste of what SE has to think about, it gets a lot worse than that in some countries where homosexuality in general is illegal, and it could have huge consequences in those countries. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad, or offend anyone, and if I am offending anyone please say, it's just it's not that easy for SE because it's still a taboo subject in some places.

Again if I am offending anyone please say, and I'll shut up.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Too many people to quote in regards to my last post, as I said I do agree with you about allowing it, but this is just a taste of what SE has to think about, it gets a lot worse than that in some countries where homosexuality in general is illegal, and it could have huge consequences in those countries. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad, or offend anyone, and if I am offending anyone please say, it's just it's not that easy for SE because it's still a taboo subject in some places.

Again if I am offending anyone please say, and I'll shut up.

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so the best solution is to not allow marriage at all.

I hope divorces cost 99% of both players' gil. Should make you not want to get married! lol

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Originally Posted by Ralliare

You just want to be able to marry the Admaral leo!

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Why did I see that coming, Edge..?


http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...le-d5krs2j.jpg



Btw I'm Christian and I'm bi. :p And I obviously play video games. :p

The implementation of the self-marriage service in FFXI and the ability to craft and sign rings (even if not Wedding Bands) provided an avenue for players with same sex characters to host their own weddings and marry their characters without a GM led service.

I do not see how permitting any character, regardless of gender, to take advantage of the full wedding services should be a touchy subject in a pixelated world, particularly when a large percentage of those "same sex marriages" result from a player (no offence but usually guys) not wanting to spent 10 years in a game staring at a male a$$ all the time. Though the reverse is also true.

People will always find ways to work around a system that is setup for heterosexual only. I think it is sad to alienate a player base on some content based on the gender of the pixels they chose at the beginning.

The in game governments aren't going to offer any benefits for being married by their rules-- if marriage is put into the game, there's no reason to prevent players from doing whatever they want with it. All or nothing, imo. (Some of you should stop saying stuff like "two ladies is fine." That doesn't reflect kindly on you, jokes or otherwise.)

Anyone who tries to tie this to real world methodology is nonsensical; the real world gives you incentive to do it the "defined" way (tax breaks, power of attorney, etc.), the game isn't going to.

I think Nix's idea on page 2, about it being a handfasting instead, is actually pretty interesting. I'd like to see a variation on typical weddings in MMOs.

I really wish this wasn't an issue to begin with though, because appeasing bigots is pretty lame.

And an unrelated edit: Nabiri, you have pretty fantastic tastes in music.

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Originally Posted by Priya

The in game governments aren't going to offer any benefits for being married by their rules-- if marriage is put into the game, there's no reason to prevent players from doing whatever they want with it. All or nothing, imo. (Some of you should stop saying stuff like "two ladies is fine." That doesn't reflect kindly on you, jokes or otherwise.)

Anyone who tries to tie this to real world methodology is nonsensical; the real world gives you incentive to do it the "defined" way (tax breaks, power of attorney, etc.), the game isn't going to.

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The problem is that some people truly believe what people do influences their real world attitude, here is an article about video games and violence http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-problems.html

Whilst I do agree with equality and same sex marriages it is taboo in some cultures which no one can disagree on, and if these people have half a chance they will slam SE for encouraging homosexuality. They are doing it with every other game they can.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Well my boyfriend plays a female character.. and so do I.. it would suck a lot if they chose no.....

I'm sure I'm not the only one in this type of situation.

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Ya same here.
And since my boyfriend won't change his char into a male Miqo, I'd be sad if I can't marry him in ARR ;__;
I guess he would also be kinda furious if I would marry another male player x'D

I really hope we can marry the same sex like in Skyrim. There it was no problem at all and I found it really nice that they made no difference ^^

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Originally Posted by Delsus

The problem is that some people truly believe what people do influences their real world attitude, here is an article about video games and violence http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-problems.html

Whilst I do agree with equality and same sex marriages it is taboo in some cultures which no one can disagree on, and if these people have half a chance they will slam SE for encouraging homosexuality. They are doing it with every other game they can.

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There are plenty of organizations that would back SEs support as well. Say what you will about Bioware, but they've come out the better in each of these discussions, as the opposition tends to show their lack of knowledge about the context of these events and interactions.

And at the same time, including the options widens the audience and proves the company and gaming industry can tackle these issues the same as other mediums.

I think they should implement it, for several reasons.

1. They already took a stance on same sex relationships with Miqo'tes going all "two woman can have fun together as well".
You could argue that a relationship is not the same as marriage, but the ones who despise same sex marriage do it because they consider homosexuality a "sin" so even having homosexuals in the game, even if they aren't married, will already make these people angry. And SE was obviously fine with that.

2. Most typical markets for SE's products are in the western world. While there still ARE people and countries against same sex marriage, they grow less by day and more and more people have a more progressive stance.

3. Many people mistake NOT having same sex marriage as "being neutral" on the topic, but that's not true.
While some people critize their children are made to think something sinful is normal, this kind of influence works the other way around as well. I would'nt want my children to think same sex marriage is something shameful which can't be displayed in a game.

4. The demographic on FFXIV is much older and more mature than in most other MMORPGs. I've only met ONE person who wasn't an adult yet in the course of 2 years. Adults are old enough to decide for themselves what to think and are not influenced by a game like children might be. They also tend to mind their own business more which means even if it WAS implemented and some wouldn't like it personally, it would rarely be something considered gamebreaking.

5. 1.-4. were the reasons why I think it would be right for SE as a company to implement it, 5. is just me saying that I personally want it ;)
Because I'm pro gay marriage in general and also because I might want to marry a RL guy ingame who - like many male players do - plays a female character because he doesn't want to stare at the ass of a male character all day.
Well and since I'm a girl my character is female too, soooo....^^

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Originally Posted by Evil-Siren

Ya same here.
And since my boyfriend won't change his char into a male Miqo, I'd be sad if I can't marry him in ARR ;__;
I guess he would also be kinda furious if I would marry another male player x'D

I really hope we can marry the same sex like in Skyrim. There it was no problem at all and I found it really nice that they made no difference ^^

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how do I commission you to do some art for me :)? very nice sig.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

The problem is that some people truly believe what people do influences their real world attitude, here is an article about video games and violence http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-problems.html

Whilst I do agree with equality and same sex marriages it is taboo in some cultures which no one can disagree on, and if these people have half a chance they will slam SE for encouraging homosexuality. They are doing it with every other game they can.

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And those people would be ignorant, stupid and selfish. I hate marriage; I think the fact it's even recognized outside of a church helps to breed this bigotry, and religion and religious individuals should keep it to themselves.

I think if anyone is against same sex marriage in the real world, then they need to either work towards getting recognized marriage benefits out of our government or grow up and give everyone access; they won't do the former though, that would take away their own perks. Much as you said, my view extends to the game world (although it's even more ridiculous to have anything against same sex marriage in a video game as it has NOTHING to do with benefits); nothing incenses me more than watching people hate other people for reasons so wholly unconnected with them.

For the record, I'm 100% straight, and I 100% support gay marriage; hell, even polygamy assuming having 50 spouses doesn't reap more benefits than having a single spouse.

Just knowing that a relative can bar a patient's significant other from visitation in a hospital ICU just because they aren't recognized as "legally married" upsets me so much.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

3. Many people mistake NOT having same sex marriage as "being neutral" on the topic, but that's not true.
While some people critize their children are made to think something sinful is normal, this kind of influence works the other way around as well. I would'nt want my children to think same sex marriage is something shameful which can't be displayed in a game.

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This is one of the most serious arguments to me.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I think they should implement it, for several reasons.

1. They already took a stance on same sex relationships with Miqo'tes going all "two woman can have fun together as well".
You could argue that a relationship is not the same as marriage, but the ones who despise same sex marriage do it because they consider homosexuality a "sin" so even having homosexuals in the game, even if they aren't married, will already make these people angry. And SE was obviously fine with that.

2. Most typical markets for SE's products are in the western world. While there still ARE people and countries against same sex marriage, they grow less by day and more and more people have a more progressive stance.

3. Many people mistake NOT having same sex marriage as "being neutral" on the topic, but that's not true.
While some people critize their children are made to think something sinful is normal, this kind of influence works the other way around as well. I would'nt want my children to think same sex marriage is something shameful which can't be displayed in a game.

4. The demographic on FFXIV is much older and more mature than in most other MMORPGs. I've only met ONE person who wasn't an adult yet in the course of 2 years. Adults are old enough to decide for themselves what to think and are not influenced by a game like children might be. They also tend to mind their own business more which means even if it WAS implemented and some wouldn't like it personally, it would rarely be something considered gamebreaking.

5. 1.-4. were the reasons why I think it would be right for SE as a company to implement it, 5. is just me saying that I personally want it ;)
Because I'm pro gay marriage in general and also because I might want to marry a RL guy ingame who - like many male players do - plays a female character because he doesn't want to stare at the ass of a male character all day.
Well and since I'm a girl my character is female too, soooo....^^

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Let's make out.

It's a freakin game. Why are we worried about what Square's political stance on an IRL topic is? Getting married in a game is retarded anyways and worrying so much about it to even question whether or not they'll allow same-sex marriage is even more retarded.

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Originally Posted by Kallivis

Considering the amount of homosexual references in the game already and the general acceptance of the population on the subject it's fairly silly to not allow it. I understand that those who are against it are a minority and it's mostly an issue with countries that ban same sex marriage or homosexuality in general, but as this is an era of progress, human rights, and fairness, it would seem archaic for a videogame company (especially Square Enix of all companies) to not allow it.

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Why can't you just role play your own ceremony? Why do you need the game to validate your lifestyle?

I really wish people would keep politics out of gaming.

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

Why can't you just role play your own ceremony? Why do you need the game to validate your lifestyle?

I really wish people would keep politics out of gaming.

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Missing the point entirely. It's the fact that it's purposely being left out.

Just letting you know, as a (I assume) heterosexual male, you will have absolutely no idea what something like this feels like.

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

I really wish people would keep politics out of gaming.

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What's the big deal with people asking for it? It's not a "Political" thing it's just people asking to be givin more options.

84% in favour in the poll so far. That's a hugely encouraging figure. Seems that most FFXIV players are nice people. Thankyou.

Before this gets locked I'd like to point out to the mods there actually is informed discussion happening here. Please let us talk about this freely and only step in if we get out of control.

*Edit*

Just based this on the mods locking the previous topic on the subject.