[dev1008] About Jumping

If I could have a 'jump' that actually just let my character hike his way up waist-high ledges and small hills by kind of climbing over them, I would be happy.

I'm totally agreed with Aldwin up there. To add an extra point to consider, the animation style of FFXIV is excellent, and was one of the few things that was almost universally praised about the game. I seriously doubt the dev team would add a WoW style "jump every .5 seconds" jump, but rather one animated like, say, GTA4--realistic, with weight, and not easy to just spam.

I think the jump done like in Final Fantasy XIII would be the best considering the game's "unique feel".

i would also like a jump feature, travel is very important to me and both FFXI and FFXIV have horrible in your way problems that could be avoided with a simple jump feature.

i think if they implimented a button that can be pressed when your character runs up to a ledge or a wall, then it would way less obnoxious and a happy medium for everyone.

basicly Square Enix.... give us something similar to a final fantasy XIII jump feature.

There is definitely more than one way jump can be implemented.

Exactly, this is scaring me so much. The fanatic anti-jumping, flat-out no response. I thought perhaps the official forums would be a place for discussion but obviously not. Every suggestion that isn't immediately related to FFXI is just declined.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Exactly, this is scaring me so much. The fanatic anti-jumping, flat-out no response. I thought perhaps the official forums would be a place for discussion but obviously not. Every suggestion that isn't immediately related to FFXI is just declined.

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because jumping IS pointless, there is nothing to discuss about it.

Well it could drive a lot of interesting content (jumping) and heighten exploration, so it isn't pointless.

Let me break down why I think jumping is ridiculous.

First of all go through the entire Final Fantasy series. Do you see jumping in any of them? From what I recall no. That's first and foremost... the fact that this is a Final Fantasy game, and not just an MMO. Therefore, the "Final Fantasy feeling" is higher priority than the "MMO feeling".

Second of all, take a look at the world. All of it. The ledges, the layout (especially Limsa and Coerthas), everything. This game is not set up for jumping. To implement manual jumping and physics like in WoW they would have to redo half the game's physical structure. Do you have any idea how much time and money that would take? Say goodbye for future content coming out any time soon if they choose that route. The time spent implementing jumping could be better spent on more critical things.

Third of all, jumping does not add anything good to an MMO. Period. Nothing. Nadda. Zippo. It makes you look like a bunny rabbit, and with the races in this game (Roegadyn and Lalafell prime example) it would look ridiculous. I don't want to see Roegadyn hopping around like rabbits. I do not want to see Lalafell jumping six times their height.

Implementing a FFXIII-jumping feature is good enough for those pesky ledges and hills.

There's your input you desired.

I like "Jump", I dislike people who abuse it and end up jumping in silly locations or standing on top of some fence that has spikes, ruins the feel of the environment.

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Originally Posted by Gath

because jumping IS pointless, there is nothing to discuss about it.

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Just because you think it's pointless doesn't mean it is pointless. It's a harmless feature that would just make more sense to have in the game. Not being able to jump is just kind of ridiculous.

I could go for a jump system like FFXIII, I do not want to see everyone bunny hopping all over the place or jumping on top of buildings and getting places they should not be able to.

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Originally Posted by Alleyia

A jump feature isn't really nessecary in my opinion. The game is designed to work without it.

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No, actually it's not. You can't design a 3D RPG that can work well without a jump function of some kind. It simply isn't possible. At least not unless you want to have perfectly flat environments with no cliffs, rocks, ledges or obstacles of any kind.

Navigating the terrain in FFXIV is incredibly annoying and cumbersome, as you're frequently having to go around knee-high obstacles that really shouldn't be obstacles at all.

This was a big problem in FFXI too, as well as several of the other RPGs Square-Enix has made in the past 10 years. 3D environments by their very nature necessitate 3D character movement of some kind, which usually means being able to jump.

SE can either give us auto-jumping like in Zelda or FFXIII, or they can give us a designated jump-button like every other MMO on the market. Either way works fine, but they need to do something.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

No, actually it's not. You can't design a 3D RPG that can work well without a jump function of some kind. Navigating the terrain in FFXIV is incredibly annoying

SE can either give us auto-jumping like in Zelda or FFXIII, or they can give us a designated jump-button like every other MMO on the market. Either way works fine, but they need to do something.

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I take it you never played Final Fantasy XI.

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Originally Posted by Raansu

Just because you think it's pointless doesn't mean it is pointless. It's a harmless feature that would just make more sense to have in the game. Not being able to jump is just kind of ridiculous.

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I don't just think it is pointless, I know it is, I mean, there is plenty of people here who agree.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Let me break down why I think jumping is ridiculous.

First of all go through the entire Final Fantasy series. Do you see jumping in any of them? From what I recall no. That's first and foremost... the fact that this is a Final Fantasy game, and not just an MMO. Therefore, the "Final Fantasy feeling" is higher priority than the "MMO feeling".

Second of all, take a look at the world. All of it. The ledges, the layout (especially Limsa and Coerthas), everything. This game is not set up for jumping. To implement manual jumping and physics like in WoW they would have to redo half the game's physical structure. Do you have any idea how much time and money that would take? Say goodbye for future content coming out any time soon if they choose that route. The time spent implementing jumping could be better spent on more critical things.

Third of all, jumping does not add anything good to an MMO. Period. Nothing. Nadda. Zippo. It makes you look like a bunny rabbit, and with the races in this game (Roegadyn and Lalafell prime example) it would look ridiculous. I don't want to see Roegadyn hopping around like rabbits. I do not want to see Lalafell jumping six times their height.

Implementing a FFXIII-jumping feature is good enough for those pesky ledges and hills.

There's your input you desired.

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Every other final fantasy (minus xi) has been a completely linear adventure, so I don't think comparing them to this game is just.

While I do agree the game needs content, the very base design of the game has been under fire since release. Drastic, even costly changes need to be made. Whether or not one of those is jump, is a matter of opinion.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

I take it you never played Final Fantasy XI.

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I played XI and it was an issue in that game too. We got used to it and accepted it, but that doesn't mean we'd be better off without it.

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Originally Posted by Aldwin

Every other final fantasy (minus xi) has been a completely linear adventure, so I don't think comparing them to this game is just.

While I do agree the game needs content, the very base design of the game has been under fire since release. Drastic, even costly changes need to be made. Whether or not one of those is jump, is a matter of opinion.

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Linear? No they haven't. FFXIII was linear for 85% of it. FFX was somewhat linear. The rest were fairly open, had tons of sidequests and additional exploring, and... yeah.

That wasn't even my point to begin with. Basically you could have said "Every other FF game is a single player game". But that's not really the point. It's the atmosphere of the game. It's the core basics. It's the monsters and themes. Jumping on its own already completely eradicates that feeling.

Edit: And if you think FFXII is linear there's a major problem. That game felt like an MMO on its own.

Jumping? Screw jumping. I want to friggin' CLIMB those stupid little hills you can't see on the map. Is that really so much to ask for?

Personally, the thought of a 'Jump' button in this game terrifies me. Final Fantasy XIV aims to have a bit of a realism factor, so just jumping around 20 feet like a jackass whenever you want is a bit out of the question. Of course.
But I agree with you.. They should just make little ledges and things like that climbable. It would add a whole lot more depth to the game and make it feel twenty times greater of the experience, the main reason why I bought the game in the first place.

This is obviously a hugely wanted factor of the game by the fans, and I truly hope that Square-Enix listens and eventually delivers, unlike they did with Final Fantasy XI.
And what if you want to cross the map quickly? You should be able to just take a leap off of a high ledge rather than going around it. Sure, if the hill is like two stories tall, I can understand that being dangerous to jump off of. So make that unavailable, SE. As you did with FFX-2-- Only make it so you can jump from certain variable marked areas. I haven't played anything that's FFXII and beyond, so I can't say much about the newer features they've shown in newer games. But if they even turned their head to the word 'Jumping' in any game, they should really consider this. I've been wanting a Jumping and Climbing feature in FFXI for the last five years, for crying out loud.

I don't think we would even need a jump feature if the terrain was designed well enough.

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Originally Posted by BloodLotus

I could accept a jump similar to Zelda: Wind Waker

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You mean like every Zelda that has jump in it? :p

Anyway, I may be in the minority on this but I don't think jump is necessary at all. Is it really hard to spend a few seconds walking AROUND the obstacle?

I certainly don't want to see a button commanded jump and I hope most of us can agree that it would be extremely annoying to have everyone in the cities jumping around like clowns :mad:

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Originally Posted by Raansu

Just because you think it's pointless doesn't mean it is pointless. It's a harmless feature that would just make more sense to have in the game. Not being able to jump is just kind of ridiculous.

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Jumping would be a good thing for this game, sure. So would loads of end-game content, or additional classes, or chocobos and airships or companies or... well lots of stuff.

To me, jumping is one of those low-priority ideas. It'd be nice, sure, but the time spent on it could be better spent elsewhere.

i don't want jump, i think is retarted in this game see a pg jump >_>

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

We do NOT want jump. It will degrade the character and atmosphere of the game.

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Perhaps you didn't read the OP completely.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Jumping is retarded, they shouldn't let Galkas jump...EVER, unless we want the raptors to go extinct.

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I gotta disagree with you man. I think jumping Galkas would be hilarious....for 5 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Make it like Monster Hunter. Let me climb up a small ledge when it's in my way.

Definitely don't want people doing flips and hopping around everywhere though.

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This is exactly what they should do. Not necessarily a jump, more like an option to climb when close to a ledge or something like it.

Or a jump with a windup animation,no air control and a landing animation so you dont bunny hop all over the place.

(well i guess you could but it'd be animated nicely)

If it is put in, then a Jump similar to FFXIII that is only reactive to certain elements in the scenery/environment in my opinion is the way to go. Part of the main reason that I play FFXIV (and played FFXI) is for the battle tactics and team work, not to jump around as if I'm playing Super Mario. I can see why some people will argue for it and I understand their point, but for me personally (and this is just my opinion) I don't want to see a Jump button added to the game.

I agree with OP. Let's not have JUMPING, but let's have contextual movement. Games like Fable have it: you can't just jump all over the place, but if you walk near a ledge you can press a button to hop down or climb up, or press a button to hop a fence. But you can't do it all the time randomly, it's only in given situations.

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Originally Posted by ShinChuck

I agree with OP. Let's not have JUMPING, but let's have contextual movement. Games like Fable have it: you can't just jump all over the place, but if you walk near a ledge you can press a button to hop down or climb up, or press a button to hop a fence. But you can't do it all the time randomly, it's only in given situations.

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Because freedom would just be too much for you to take, after having been spoonfed quests and NMs and isntances all your life.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Because freedom would just be too much for you to take, after having been spoonfed quests and NMs and isntances all your life.

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I think contextual movement makes for a more flowing, graceful game. I'd take just plain jumping if it was the only option, though!

I myself do not want the jump thats in XIII, having to go just the right spot to use it or to be walking close to an edge and have youer char auto jump down when you dont want it to or have a window pop up asking if you want to jump here... me i rather be able to jump when i want to. I played both WoW and Aion, and i havent seen that many ppl jumping like rabbits/frogs

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Because freedom would just be too much for you to take, after having been spoonfed quests and NMs and isntances all your life.

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Can't agree with your method of insults, but I do feel like most of the xiv community atm are very biased towards their style of gameplay.

Without degrading others opinions of this game, including my own, I do think the devs should listen to peoples advice and opinions who are not currently playing the game, as much, if not more, than those of us who are.

We need more people playing.

I would rather have jumping in XIV, of some sort. Having to get around all the time seems silly to me.

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

I don't think we would even need a jump feature if the terrain was designed well enough.

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The only, and I mean ONLY type of terrain where you wouldn't ever need to jump is a perfectly flat field with no hills, valleys, cliffs, ledges, rocks, sticks, bumps, cracks, crevices, protrusions, or any other such obstacles. In other words, a boring environment.

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Originally Posted by Becken

I myself do not want the jump thats in XIII, having to go just the right spot to use it or to be walking close to an edge and have youer char auto jump down when you dont want it to or have a window pop up asking if you want to jump here... me i rather be able to jump when i want to. I played both WoW and Aion, and i havent seen that many ppl jumping like rabbits/frogs

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Right, this is taken way out of proportion. I do occasionally see people jump, and when I'm questing I jump myself to have something more visually interesting then just running on a horse for 5 minutes on screen, but it's not as though Orgrimmar is constantly shaking under the feet of people spamming jump.

As i mentioned before, an FFXIII style jump would have issues since this is not a linear game, and it would not solve the problem with mob position since the jump often works only in one spot on a ridge. So, you'd still have to walk around to find the sweet spot when you should be able to just take a short jump and save yourself the trouble. The realistic animation style is such that each jump would likely take time, have no air control, and take a bit to recover from, but overall it would still be usable with a GTA4/Uncharted type animation. It's certainly better than the alternative, just straight walking with no variation, feeling stuck on 2 dimensions in a 3 dimensional world is offputting, especially when the industry standard is to be able to jump.

I would really like a jump feature but with a cooldown or something to avoid the spam of it.
When i walk around Eorzea everything seems so realistic, the graphic ,the character animations but...... i can't jump a little rock or drop a little cliff >.< that honestly ruins my immersion and it's really annoyng .
I can see jump used as part of strategy doing encounters in future instances too.

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Originally Posted by Aldwin

I do think the devs should listen to peoples advice and opinions who are not currently playing the game, as much, if not more, than those of us who are.

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I admit, you do have a point there, and I mean that in all seriousness. FFXIV needs more customers in order to be able to sustain itself, and in order to bring in more customers, they need to bring back people who quit, which they can't do unless they address the issues which caused those people to quit in the first place.

I've seen some people (not many, but some) try to insist that developing for people who don't play is illogical, but what these people don't understand that everyone who is not already a customer is still a potential customer. And if by making certain changes to the game, SE can turn those potential customers into actual customers, wouldn't it make sense to do it?

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Originally Posted by OJtheLIONKing

feeling stuck on 2 dimensions in a 3 dimensional world is offputting, especially when the industry standard is to be able to jump.

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Thank you! I've been trying to tell people that for years, but the FFXI fanboys keep insisting that it isn't a problem, when it clearly is.

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Originally Posted by Hisaye

I would really like a jump feature but with a cooldown or something to avoid the spam of it.

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No other game in any genre for any console in any time period has EVER put a cooldown timer on the jump function. That's not a good idea, and it makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Besides, if you actually play any other MMO for any real length of time, you come to realize that jump-spamming is nowhere near as common as the average FFXI/FFXIV zealot seems to believe. And even when it does happen, it's super easy to ignore.

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Originally Posted by Hisaye

I would really like a jump feature but with a cooldown or something to avoid the spam of it.
When i walk around Eorzea everything seems so realistic, the graphic ,the character animations but...... i can't jump a little rock or drop a little cliff >.< that honestly ruins my immersion and it's really annoyng .
I can see jump used as part of strategy doing encounters in future instances too.

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Yeah, the enormous character names and aggro icons, it's like looking at a photograph! Jumping would totally ruin that!

Sorry for the sarcasm, I actually totally agree that it needs to be implemented with a cooldown.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Yeah, the enormous character names and aggro icons, it's like looking at a photograph! Jumping would totally ruin that!

Sorry for the sarcasm, I actually totally agree that it needs to be implemented with a cooldown.

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Or just implement it to only be in certain spots, like climbing over a ledge, but a CD is just silly.

If you don't want jumping, disable the hotkey. Don't ruin it for the rest of us who want it.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Or just implement it to only be in certain spots, like climbing over a ledge, but a CD is just silly.

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Can you jump over and over without having to rest? Please demonstrate how a cooldown is not logical.