Yoshida-san - GLOBAL Servers and Balancing Tweaks Instead of Regional Servers

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Originally Posted by Quesse

You're just guessing about still having a mix, and saying its not essential is just your opinion.

/fail

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Everyone seems to be "Guessing" at this point. XD

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

so you're okay then with completely alienating the hardcore playerbase and essentially telling them if they want truly challenging pve they should just get it from another game?

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Ironically, the people who play just to socialize are perfectly fine with alienating everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

What I believe is that you have no knowledge regarding how latency can affect gameplay, and that it's not as easy as adding X ms to boss mechanics in order to compensate effects of latency.

The annoyance induced by latency isn't linear. Someone having 300ms won't be "twice more annoyed" than someone having 150ms. It's exponential.

Even if mechanics window are 0.5s longer, players with 300ms vs someone with 50ms will still get screwed. When the gameplay is fast paced (in before comparison with XI, no that's not fast paced), having a high latency makes it really hard to play properly. Ability lag combined with a low GCD make the gameplay experience horrible.

I experienced SWTOR or Rift couple of times with 300ms+ latency (had issue on my line so my latency was horrible), and I purely and simply could not raid. It wasn't about me needing an extra 270ms to react to mechanics (~30ms is my normal ping), it was more like playing a music game where notes are out of sync with the music.

To take your SF exemple, it would be like having a 15 frame delay when playing. Even if you increase all execution timing window by 15 frames, you will still suck badly.

Finally, boss mechanics aren't the only one thing. Healing/interacting with other players is important as well and there is no timing window for that. When you need to use a cooldown quickly on someone or that someone will die, you just need to do it "ASAP".

ASAP + latency can mean wiping. But again to realize that, you need to understand what is raiding. And it seems that Yoshida has an idea of what raiding is and how latency can terribly affects a raid performance.

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https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/im...aFqcQRPVmw8RLQ

Amazing post. Please read it, Yoshi!

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

so you're okay then with completely alienating the hardcore playerbase and essentially telling them if they want truly challenging pve they should just get it from another game?

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If you want to play reaction based difficult content you shouldn't be playing an MMO in the first place, especially one with Final Fantasy in the title.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

That being said, if you have friends from different regions, you can all agree to play on the same server and you'll be able to play like you did before.

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Why do you keep saying this when we have been telling you time and time again that it's not as simple as asking them? How many in-game friends do you actually have? Do they all belong to the same tight-knit group or LS?

We can have friends from MULTIPLE regions (I do and so do many others) who do not KNOW EACH OTHER and thus it is practically IMPOSSIBLE to ask ALL OF THEM to make the same exact server move (or not to make one at all).

Is it really that hard to understand or are you just ignoring this on purpose?

Will you please stop complaining about regional servers?

In a different MMO, I chose to play in a US server instead of a Euro server. In the end, my schedule ended up making it almost impossible for me to particiate in most events. I had to make a new character in a Euro server. People choose regional servers for a reason, and it's not just lag. You can still choose whichever you want, why isn't that enough for you? Seriously...

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Originally Posted by Colino

We can have friends from MULTIPLE regions (I do and so do many others) who do not KNOW EACH OTHER and thus it is practically IMPOSSIBLE to ask ALL OF THEM to make the same exact server move (or not to make one at all).

Is it really that hard to understand or are you just ignoring this on purpose?

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Can't you just stay on your current server and avoid all complications, then?

This is no different from what SE wants to do.
You act like that because you suspect people WILL go to a regional server if it is labeled as such instead of just staying on the server they currently are on (global).

If you are so sure people WILL do that there is no point to label some as "global" because your beloved community will STILL be torn into pieces because some people will go to the regional ones (like you suspected) and others like you will go to the ones labled as "global".

And seriously, you all go nuts about this whole "I want to play with other cultures!" thing...I've been on the inofficial EU server for months now and played with more different cultures than I ever did on the "global" server I was on before..where I only played with NA and German players. Here it's people from all the different EU countries, Dubai, Japan, NA, SA, arabs etc. because everyone is here to whom this time zone is convenient, meaning also people from non-EU countries who can only play in the morning or late at night.
Servers will still have an international community even if their location differs.

Also....communities to which being together was really important stayed together through the last server transfer as well.
Why do you think that suddenly everyone wants to switch to a local server although "everyone" was strongly against it at the last server transfer?

did everyone forget were getting content finder which will spread across the servers? yes your in a server that will reduce lag in your area. but you can still do instances with other ppl from other servers, woooo. you ppl are boring with your uninformed debates.

If a certain server is connected to a certain region that would indicate that server is populated with players of that region, even though it doesn't say that server is designed for those players of that region.

Which is what everyone is worry about, you will end up with a prime/dead times on each server, cause why would players from different region would join a server that isn't built in their region, when I can join a server is just next to me.

For me, a delay is still manageable, and I would find a way to work myself around that lag in the end, but knowing the fact that people who are on my time zone won't but bother help my case of join any other server other than the servers in my region.

I'm mainly upset because this causes large issues for people like me and my friends who have widely varied play times.

I can't pick a server that is "Best" for me because I often have to switch up what time I'm available for play.

100 % agreed with the OP. Having worldwide communities is one of the strengths of Final Fantasy XI, and so far it is still one of FFXIV's. Let's make sure it keeps being this way.

Good idea!

Yes please!
I want global community

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Originally Posted by Veltaine

did everyone forget were getting content finder which will spread across the servers? yes your in a server that will reduce lag in your area. but you can still do instances with other ppl from other servers, woooo. you ppl are boring with your uninformed debates.

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content finder sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! sucks! It's terrible.

As long as they lable one or two servers as "Global" recomended I don't care where it is but at least I'll have a option to stick with a global community.

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Why do you keep saying this when we have been telling you time and time again that it's not as simple as asking them?

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Because it IS as simple as that. You ask them, they say yes, or they say no, and t hat's the end of that. Yes, i have friends in the game. None of them are real life friends though. I'm not going to hang myself or have an emotional meltdown if one of them decides to go to a different server. I can make new friends, or we can keep in touch by making another character on the other's world. Ideally, they'll implement a game-wide friends list like XI had. I have several people on my XI friends list that changed worlds - This kind of thing happens even without regional servers - but we still talk. If your friends are close, they're most likely going to stick together. You also have the option of not moving at all, and staying on the world you're on now. In the long run though, more people will be happy for a higher quality game experience free of lag.

I agree with OP, my latency to the servers is less than 1/5 of a second and i am almost as far away form the servers as you can get while still having internet. I doubt regional servers will do anything to help.

I agree with everything Alhanelem and Antipika have said up to this point. OP and some others are blowing things out of proportion.

Of course, OP's attempt to downplay the importance of gameplay irks me a bit.

PS: Comparing reaction time requirements in a modern MMO encounter to that of a fighting game is very silly. Please stop it.
PPS: Some of the JP posts on the Japanese forums about this are downright mean. It's not like they're shedding tears at the possibility of a split in the community.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Of course, OP's attempt to downplay the importance of gameplay irks me a bit.

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Your attempt to downplay the importance of tearing appart the global community irks me a bit.

Almost all of the NA posts on the English forums are downright racist at times, it's not like many of you are shedding tears at the possibillity of a split in the community.

TLDR but I skimmed it. Even if they add time to encounters to compensate for lag, the players nearest the server with the best pings will still have an advantage which could even be 'gamebreaking' in some instances and imo a terrible idea. As far as having a jp/na/eu servers labeled as global, that's fine however they all already ARE GLOBAL?!?A?!?D?S?!??... In pvp I wouldn't want to ping all the way to Japan where every millisecond really does count, it's absolutely necessary for them to have regional servers.

I think you people are making too big a deal out of something that is amazing and great for the game. Closer servers means better response times and a better gaming experience, and if my friends want to play with me they still can.

THANK YOU SE FOR REGIONAL SERVERS, what a great idea that will fix so many major issues with latency and ntm no more JP Button..

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Your attempt to downplay the importance of tearing apart the global community irks me a bit.

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Your rose-colored goggles on this topic irk me even more, because we weren't exactly singing happy songs and holding hands with all Japanese players; we got along with some and ran into some "JP onry". I guess later we could have an irking contest to see which of us is most irked by the end of the day.

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Almost all of the NA posts on the English forums are downright racist at times

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Yawn.

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it's not like many of you are shedding tears at the possibillity of a split in the community.

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Depends on who you ask. I play this and played FFXI because they were online Final Fantasy games. I like the possibility of better storylines and I have always been fond of the Final Fantasy IP's job concepts.

On gameplay, yes, it is very important to me. Better gameplay means I can expect encounter mechanics to be more than just "stand there auto-attacking and WS when you hit 100 TP". Better gameplay means playing as that class/job can be a little more involved. International friends are nice, but their presence won't fix latency issues during boss fights or make abominations like cure-&-refresh-bitch Red Mage any less painful.

I understand some have friends in the EU and JP, and I'm sure that if you actually bothered to talk to them about this you can agree on where everyone will play once the nitty gritty on the server structure is revealed. Considering the forum communities managed to get themselves organized for this kind of thing (in case anyone forgot about that), I don't think linkshells and circles of friends doing something similar is that unrealistic or outlandish.

As I've said in the other thread about this, wouldn't be the first time someone chooses to play on a different region server to be with friends. We had two New Zealanders and an Australian in our WoW guild, aside from a bunch of EU people. Despite the latency difference, they chose to do so because they liked playing with us.

I'll be moving to whatever server has the best global community because fuck lag. The community is more important than litteraly milleseconds of lag.

People blow the lag out of proportion when even the dev team admited most of the lag was caused server side due to too many checks on the server instead of the client.

Why is global community so important to you, since it doesn't seem to be "friends" that is most important to you (given that you said "i'm going to whichever server has the most global community.")

Do you find it fun when JP go around saying JP Only, do you find it fun when people speak languages you don't understand? global community has some limited appeal for me, because it is nice when you ARE able to get along with people from other cultures, but when you get right down to it, you're all trying to play a game, and a better quality game experience (fuss over how much of a differece ping makes all you want) trumps the one or two japanese or french friends I might possibly make on a totally global community. While the multicultural environment has it's moments, when you're trying to get something done and all the shouts are in Japanese, you end up just sitting there while those Japanese people get out and accomplish stuff.

To me, the benefit of the regional freedom is if you actually do have friends from other parts of the world (like real friends, not game friends), you can play with them freely, without being locked out, unlike some games that don't let you play with people in other regions at all. And this will remain possible after regional servers become available.

Also what happened to you not passing judgement?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Why is global community so important to you?

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It's important to me because I enjoy playing with people from around the world. The JP onry issues are overblown and you know it, the lag issues are overblown and you know it, and the reaction of people who support the segregated servers complaining about people who care about it is overblown.

Let people show that they care or don't about a subject and stop tossing baseless vitrol at eachother. It's rediculous on both sides. I know where I stand and I find it utterly rediculous when people try to stunt conversation just because they don't agree with it.

Sure there are a few too many threads but who cares? Like people said don't like it don't post in it most of the discussion IS in one thread with a few outliers wanting a opinion that they feel needs it's own thread (They usually do talk about something other than just the servers themselves like there effect on the community or if the lag will really change.)

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Your rose-colored goggles on this topic irk me even more, because we weren't exactly singing happy songs and holding hands with all Japanese players; we got along with some and ran into some "JP onry". I guess later we could have an irking contest to see which of us is most irked by the end of the day.
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Huh funny, I've never had JP onry. Infact I got into parties that shouted "jp onry" in them. All you have to do is get YOUR stick out of you but, be nice, they will do the same. Jps have never had a problem with the Rokien.

oh that includes FFXI as well.

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Originally Posted by Colino

If you want to play reaction based difficult content you shouldn't be playing an MMO in the first place, especially one with Final Fantasy in the title.

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you know how i know you've never raided seriously in WoW or any other MMOs?

I'm in the same boat as Jynx really, I play at such oddball times that change at a moment's notice on a semi-weekly basis that no other option is good for me other than truly global servers. I'm very disappointed in being forced into regional ones.

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It's important to me because I enjoy playing with people from around the world.

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Why do you enjoy this so much? What's so much better about playing with a person from <insert country here> compared to your own? What do they have that anyone else doesn't?

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The JP onry issues are overblown and you know it,

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While I've been in a few parties with JP players and they generally go well, It wasn't really any more fun than playing with people whom I can understand. And I can take a screenshot of my chatlong anytime after midnight eastern and show you why most people are happy for regional servers. It's just an endless stream of squiggles that 99% of non-japanese don't even understand how to read, much less know what the symbols actually mean. Again, while this doesn't explicitly BOTHER me, I would be able to get a lot more done if I saw some shouts for events I need. I often look at the JP shouts and can't help but wonder what fights they're doing that I need but I don't know it so I can't even ask if they need help because they rarely use auto translate.

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the lag issues are overblown and you know it,

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The lag issues are not overblown at all. physical location is only one part of why the game lags, yes, but it's a flat out lie to say that the game doesn't have substantial lag issues.

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I'm very disappointed in being forced into regional ones.

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you're not being forced into regional ones, you can still join any server regardless of region. If you play at oddball times, then just join an EU server if you're NA or a JP server otherwise. Bam, instant players online during your oddball time. Heck, probably even more reliably than you have now.

Regional servers does not mean "servers will be dead from X time to Y time." There are always people who are active at oddball times like you are, because everyone comes from different walks of life and are active at different times. Additionally, you aren't going to be forced to go anywhere. You'll still be on whatever server you're on now when 2.0 comes online, unless you specifically choose to switch.
Of all the reasons to want things to stay the way they are now, this has to be the least valid one.

It seems as though that some people can't except the fact that there are people like me who prefer to play on a regional server over the way it is set up now. I am happy they are setting up regional datacenters.

The pros for me is less lag, I will know the majority of people speak English and easier time finding groups to do stuff with. I have played other games and really like it when I can send someone a tell and know they will understand what I am telling them.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What do they have that anyone else doesn't?

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This has to be the worst argument against have global servers I have ever heard. It's great to be able to exposed from people with different experiences and cultures.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

you're not being forced into regional ones, you can still join any server regardless of region. If you play at oddball times, then just join an EU server if you're NA or a JP server otherwise. Bam, instant players online during your oddball time.

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Looks like you don't understand what me or him are saying. We don't just play at oddball hours, our hours of play change very frequently. So no matter what server we pick we are at a massive disadvantage when it comes to finding people to play with allready, we have now cut that chance to near nothingness.

We can't afford to skip servers everytime our work or life events change.

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This has to be the worst argument against have global servers I have ever heard. It's great to be able to exposed from people with different experiences and cultures.

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It's not the worst, it's actually probably the best. Yes, I understand there are benefits to being exposed to different cultures. But you don't have to play an MMORPG to do that (and it's HARDLY the best environment for exposure to culture).

Right now, at this very moment, I'm standing around idle, watching a million JP shouts go by. I have no idea what any of these people are doing. Is this supposed to be fun? I think this is a pretty fair question.

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We don't just play at oddball hours, our hours of play change very frequently. So no matter what server we pick we are at a massive disadvantage when it comes to finding people to play with allready, we have now cut that chance to near nothingness.

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then MMORPGs are not the best genre of game for you, especially those which place a fair amount of importance on grouping. You're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Being on a "global" server doesn't solve this problem because

1) the notion that there will be nobody online during your oddball times on a regional server is just wrong
2) If you're on a "global" server, odds are you won't be able to communicate with most of the players online and thus it's not much better than not having anyone online at all.

As it is now, you could solve multiple issues at once by just making a couple characters on different servers, and playing whichever one suits your current needs (in before you say "I shouldn't have to do this" - It's not something you have to do, it's a suggestion)

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It's not the worst, it's actually probably the best.

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No it really is the worst. I'll explain below.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Right now, at this very moment, I'm standing around idle, watching a million JP shouts go by. I have no idea what any of these people are doing. Is this supposed to be fun? I think this is a pretty fair question.

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That's not the servers problem it's the scant population of the game in general. How is hearing Japanese players shout bother you in any way/shape/form at all? Isn't it better for there to be more people on your server active at any time doing more than just shouting. They are crafting, leveling, farming materials, killing monsters, hunting actively making the world alive at all hours of the day.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

then MMORPGs are not the best genre of game for you.

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Who are you to tell me what I can and can't do? I did so perfectly fine in XI I knew people from all corners of the world who can communicate with me just fine. I knew Japanese players (I don't speak much Japanese) Koreans, Germans, Mexicans, to name a few of the places people I played with on a constant basis. They never all played at the same times so I would often only see certain groups during certain times but I was part of a community that accepted me for who I was and when I was available.

Please stop posting with such short-sighted answers without looking beyond your face for the answers to questions you have.

Alhanelem, Some people just love Global servers, Some people don't want to change for the better ( since I said that I'll be getting a post in a bit as to why it isn't better :P). Its like people not accepting the Offline FF change that FF is going through, and people can't let go of the turned based JRPG they had many moons ago.

When it comes down to it, Regional servers help tremendously, people will flock to the nearest data center, people will adapt, people will make new friends to play with, and life goes on as always.

As Long as the game is great everything else just falls into place, just It's hard to see a change when FF online has always been "Global" since 10ish years ago with FFXI. Accepting change is always a hard thing to deal with, but it will happen sooner than you think.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Looks like you don't understand what me or him are saying. We don't just play at oddball hours, our hours of play change very frequently. So no matter what server we pick we are at a massive disadvantage when it comes to finding people to play with allready, we have now cut that chance to near nothingness.

We can't afford to skip servers everytime our work or life events change.

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This problem is partly alleviated by the cross server content finder that they are putting in. But I saw that you posted in another topic how you don't like the idea of the content finder. It seems you have some irrational hatred of it even though you have yet to try. This feature is in a few other MMO and the reason for it is so people can find other people to do stuff with at any time they wish to log on.

They add a feature like this so people like you who play odd hours or hours that change can still log in and do some dungeon or raid in the game. Since you can log in and use the feature at whatever time.

What exactly would keep you from having a good time with the game when you can press a button and in a few min have a group to do a raid with?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

It seems you have some irrational hatred of it even though

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One doesn't need to try standing in a line and then being crammed into a box to know what having only Instanced content to do to know what Content finder will be like.

I enjoy open world gameplay and both content finder and segregated servers fly in the face of having a world that feels alive. Why bother reworking the maps if we will never use them.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

One doesn't need to try standing in a line and then being crammed into a box to know what having only Instanced content to do to know what Content finder will be like.

I enjoy open world gameplay and both content finder and segregated servers fly in the face of having a world that feels alive. Why bother reworking the maps if we will never use them.

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More or less this... SE could of saved a ton of development cost if they just made say Uldah and instanced dungeons. Honestly is all the open world is for is solo quest... they wasted their time developing it because people will do it once then just sit in Uldah and que up.

Many mmos have dungeon finder and while it is really great for casuals... it screws over endgame guilds, degrades the community, and promotes theft in raids especially with the current system. People you play with 1 day are the not the same the next. I am sorry but this is a garbage design and one of the main things WoW did to destroy this genre. Community and guilds use to be everything in a mmo, now they are nothing but tools to use for your own progression. Sad really.

Honestly I hope SE is not stupid enough to reward people for using Dungeon finder like other mmos... making a non finder party should come with increased drop rates and xp. More so the drop rates.

Tho I like this, they probably wont need 3 global servers. if anything 1 Global, 3 Japan, 2 NA, 1 EU. The new servers can handle way more people and monsters at a time and in any area, they wont suck so much to need so many.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

More or less this... SE could of saved a ton of development cost if they just made say Uldah and instanced dungeons. Honestly is all the open world is for is solo quest... they wasted their time developing it because people will do it once then just sit in Uldah and que up.

Many mmos have dungeon finder and while it is really great for casuals... it screws over endgame guilds, degrades the community, and promotes theft in raids especially with the current system. People you play with 1 day are the not the same the next. I am sorry but this is a garbage design and one of the main things WoW did to destroy this genre. Community and guilds use to be everything in a mmo, now they are nothing but tools to use for your own progression. Sad really.

Honestly I hope SE is not stupid enough to reward people for using Dungeon finder like other mmos... making a non finder party should come with increased drop rates and xp. More so the drop rates.

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I have played WoW and know first hand that them having dungeon finder and raid finder doesn't screw over endgame at all. Because people still have guilds and raid with their friends and do the harder difficulties for better drops that aren't available in the raid finder. It is actually a very successful tool because not everyone is in a guild that does endgame but this gives them something to do so they can see the content. MMOs need casual players to play otherwise the devs won't make any money in most MMOs only like 5-10% of the games population play in a hard core environment (set raid schedule, trying to progress through the hardest content ect.)

If SE does what Blizzard does they will make the easy mode in the raid finder, and normal or hard mode you will have to make your own group for which drops higher quality of gear.

Content finder itself isn't a bad idea and it's nice that it exists. I just dislike how much it incentivises the developers to creat nothing but instanced content.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

One doesn't need to try standing in a line and then being crammed into a box to know what having only Instanced content to do to know what Content finder will be like.

I enjoy open world gameplay and both content finder and segregated servers fly in the face of having a world that feels alive. Why bother reworking the maps if we will never use them.

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Dude, you totally already know everything about ARR and what kind of content is going to be available to players?! Sweeet!!


Oh, and, uh... since you obviously have a time machine, tell me... is the world really going to end on Dec 21st?
Or if that's too hard, I'll settle for Monday night's winning Powerball #s. Thanks. :p