TP regen

TP has become more like Energy from rogues in WoW- an easily spent but quick to come back resource pool.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

TP has become more like Energy from rogues in WoW- an easily spent but quick to come back resource pool.

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Don't call it quick too early.
Don't forget that combos don't save your TP anymore. ~2 combos rotation (or 3) and your TP is gone if you spam them too fast. And it would need ~1,5 minutes to get back to the full 1000 TP during the battle.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Don't call it quick too early.
Don't forget that combos don't save your TP anymore. ~2 combos rotation (or 3) and your TP is gone if you spam them too fast. And it would need ~1,5 minutes to get back to the full 1000 TP during the battle.

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I think the same as Alhanelem. I don't really care about the values right now, this is an alpha version, nothing has been fully decided yet when it comes to TP costs, regeneration rate and so on.

But when you listen to Yoshida, it really looks like he wants TP to become like in WoW and similar MMOs. The GCD is what will restrict us. Not the cost of abilities. I can sense the same battle mechanics coming, with WS/Spell rotation, very short CD for "special" abilities etc.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

All the more reason to reintroduce SCH and Corsair style buffs if they really want to take the system into this direction. Having everything function the same is what a generic (Standard) MMO is and what everyone wanted SE to do with XIV, everyone got their wish now lets see how long ARR lasts.

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its gonna last far longer then ff14 1.0.. since that was canned a year after release?

I think what you're not looking at: What fight are you going to be wanting to literally spam your WS? You should be pacing your TP, not letting it cap but not letting it run empty. This adds a layer of strategy because you can save it to burst something down.

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Originally Posted by Quatre

I think what you're not looking at: What fight are you going to be wanting to literally spam your WS? You should be pacing your TP, not letting it cap but not letting it run empty. This adds a layer of strategy because you can save it to burst something down.

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I am comparing it to the standard MMO (WoW, Swtor, Rift, ect) which Yoshi is going for here, where you hit your buttons as soon as you are off GCD. People who play mmos like this don't like it when they are standing around waiting to push a button because of lack of a resource in this case TP.

Take rogues for example which someone already mentioned they have a similar system but their energy regens fast enough so they can always be pushing a button every time its available.

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Originally Posted by Luhy

Everyone is equal.

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Not a bad thing. Unless you liked XI's approach of 5 "ace" jobs and 15 fodder jobs.

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Everyone will be jumping like idiots.

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Go look at the Limit Break trailer. Now imagine a chorus of laughter as the group is jumping on their chocobos. The laughter is directed at jump haters. Accompanied by the phrase "eat this and like it".

I'm hoping that TP Regen is tacked on to Ballad, with maybe Arcanist+Carby or WHM getting a MP+TP regen spell to cover for when there is no bard in the group. Could also implement TP regen as a proc from a WS, be it per class (say, Flat Blade for GLA regens TP, Godsbane for MRD regens TP, Leg Sweep for LNC regens TP) or a proc that affects the party (say, Spirits Within procs Regain on everyone within range of the PLD using it for 15 seconds). There are options beyond "let's artificially inflate this job's value by giving them a spell everyone will want in their parties"; I'm just hoping the devs realize that.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

If we forgo separating playstyles, especially for the sake of PvP there's going to be very few classes and jobs they can actually release because for example if everyone can pop off a TP regain ability what would be the point of introducing a mage that can buff for example?

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Short answer: You don't. You make buffs part of the arsenal but give it meaningful gameplay that makes the job appealing to more than the 3 people out of 10,000 that might enjoy spamming buffs. It also prevents bandwagons (FFXI's Red Mage) or cases of extreme rarity and imminent princess syndrome (FFXI's Bard).

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Originally Posted by Luhy

I'm depressed by this new system. I played this game with excitement knowing that Yoshi-P cared about PvP as much as me. We now have to wait 3 seconds after every WS. We also have 3 seconds between Thunder and Thundara. There is no strategy behind saving your TP. There is no strategy behind the order in which you use WSs. Just run in, do something, wait 3 seconds. Everyone is equal. Everyone will be jumping like idiots. Skill doesn't matter, etc, etc.

I never even considered quitting during Tanaka's FFXIV, but now I actually am, knowing how boring PvP will be.

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LMAO! What are you smoking on? Must be something so good. Let me get sooooommmmmeeeeeeee! TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Would you rather they keep the 30 second plus cooldowns on WSs? Spamming everything to 0, then having to wait 9 seconds to burst some more, doesn't sound that bad.

I think this system opens up new avenues for TP+ materia/abilities/classes. So instead of having a STR or ACC heavy melee DD you might actually consider forgoing that for a third option. A skill based set up, or perhaps a mixture of all three. As of now with the cooldowns the way they are, TP+ really isn't necessary. On Dragoon I always have enough TP for what I want to do, I just can't do what I want to do based on cooldowns, effectively making it already "WoWish". This negates the need to really concentrate at all on balancing my TP management, and to be honest it's the same with the other melee jobs as well. There's a little more thought that goes into timing attacks based on TP but only slightly more than DRG/LNC.

I could see a potential front line Red Mage carefully resourcing both MP and TP, perhaps using both resources to combo together with this style of system in place. It may not happen but I think it would certainly be interesting.

I also think it's fair to balance mage and melee jobs, not only for PvP but for PvE as well.

When I look back to XI post Aht Urghan pre Abyssea I noticed a great disparity between melee DD's and Black Mages specifically in grinding parties. Everyone wanted a high level BLM for endgame but no one was willing to level with one. Red Mages were fine as they could effectively solo heal an entire party and never run out of MP if they balanced themselves correctly while BLMs were always limited by their MP despite having the 2nd largest pool. This is not mentioning the dreaded casting time that BLMs also had to deal with that the melees did not further, hindering their DPS over time potential.

Making the TP pool regenerate in the same manner as the MP pool I think is a great way to take the battle system and truly balances it out, as stated above, for both PvP and PvE reasons.

It also makes more "rpg" sense to me. Having the stamina to pull off incredible feats of prowess and skill would be more likely after you've rested not after you've been swinging your weapon for any given amount of time or being slapped around*.

I feel inclined to agree with the posts that mention this is alpha and that the numbers aren't finalized yet. I admire the OP for being so diligent in their analysis regardless. I'm hoping we can use this information going into alpha and that alpha testers can give suggestions on how to tweak the numbers based on actual experience with the pacing of combat. I'm hoping that these alpha testers will have the same discerning eye as the OP so that we can fix these problems before the official release, if their are any.

The "Sky is falling" mentality certainly doesn't apply with this particular change to the battle system in my opinion. On the contrary, it potentially makes battles more dynamic by introducing another resource management that has been overlooked since Square Enix's other MMO Final Fantasy XI.

*To be fair an argument could be made for pent up frustrations

Good evening!

I have some information regarding the new TP system for you all:
Regardless of your level, the maximum TP value will be set at 1000. As Zumi mentioned, in A Realm Reborn, TP is generated over time and not through auto-attacks. On the other hand, it will be possible to increase MP through equipment and leveling up.

Alongside the TP system changes, we will be adjusting the stats on some equipment and materia. It's a bit early to get into specifics but once we have finalized these decisions, we'll be sure to let you know!

Hmm, with TP being regenerated over time, now the fight will be something like spam WS, then disengage, full TP rest and go again?

you can't do this on bosses , but on monsters it might be something like but it won't be the thing to do i hope .

Its not truly spamming unless you constantly keep doing it without breaks. If you have to stop to let your TP fill up, then your not really spamming it. If you were to keep going after your TP is basically nothing then you can't spam anymore. You could recklessly spam all your TP.. then get yourself into a sticky situation where you have no TP to help save you and potentially die.

Zumi I see you counted normal WS but could this also affect limit breakers? Or could we get a TP bonus for performing limit breakers? Which then leads to my last thought will they have 2/3/4/5/6/7 player limit breakers? O_o (battle regimens for 1.0 people)

This system exists in other games & you can burst dmg, but that would only be ideal for certain situations requiring burst damage, otherwise in majority of situations, especially PvE raid/Boss fights, highly ineffective dps to spam WS, besides unless poorly implimented, some skill will cost more than others. It will come down to thoughtful use of skills, hopefully... we'll see how it goes but if it's a samiliar system, if you think spamming WS will work, then you're gonna look very noob.

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Originally Posted by vax

Hmm, with TP being regenerated over time, now the fight will be something like spam WS, then disengage, full TP rest and go again?

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Why would you do that, except if you are dangerously close to pulling hate? This isn't like FFXI, you won't be triggering special attacks by auto-attacking. There is no reason to hold back except to control hate.

This is going to change the game completely o.o Wonder how SAM will work :/

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Why would you do that, except if you are dangerously close to pulling hate? This isn't like FFXI, you won't be triggering special attacks by auto-attacking. There is no reason to hold back except to control hate.

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i think she was talking about regular mobs , well i hope .

dont forget enemy fight on group now, so I think disengaging wont work except you fight single enemy

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Why would you do that, except if you are dangerously close to pulling hate? This isn't like FFXI, you won't be triggering special attacks by auto-attacking. There is no reason to hold back except to control hate.

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The poster means that things will work by spamming WS then waiting for it to regen, the use of "disengage" just mean basically you're useless until it's back up, but they probably forgot about the auto-attack. Either way, we'll have to see how it's implemented.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

The poster means that things will work by spamming WS then waiting for it to regen, the use of "disengage" just mean basically you're useless until it's back up, but they probably forgot about the auto-attack. Either way, we'll have to see how it's implemented.

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I would think that TP would regenerate regardless of passive/active. However, I bet it regenerates pretty slowly.

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Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

I would think that TP would regenerate regardless of passive/active. However, I bet it regenerates pretty slowly.

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Which brings us to post #1! (below)

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Originally Posted by Zumi

All this info I got from watching the Special Talk Session. I realize all this could change by the time the game is actually out.

-Yoshi's DRG has several weapon skills that take TP
100
100
110
120
150
200
200

-While in combat with enemies your TP regens at a rate of 30 tp ever 3 seconds.
-Out of combat your TP regens at a rate of 100 tp every 3 seconds
-There is a 3 second global cooldown for weapon skills.
-Combos now require TP for the 2nd WS and onward.


Single target boss fight
Using high TP cost WS, then low cost once my initial TP is gone.
Time | TP
0:00 | 1000 -200 = 800 TP
0:03 | 800 + 30 - 200 = 630 TP
0:06 | 630 + 30 -200 = 460 TP
0:09 | 460 + 30 - 200 = 290 TP
0:12 | 290 + 30 - 200 = 120 TP
0:15 | 120 + 30 - 150 = 0 TP
0:18 | +30 = 30 TP - No WS used
0:21 | 30 + 30 = 60 TP - No WS used
0:24 | 60 + 30 = 90 TP - No WS used
0:27 | 90 + 30 = 120 - 120 = 0 TP - 120 WS used

Once you hit the bottom of your TP bar which happens 15 sec into the fight there is a 12 sec wait before you can do anything again. Causing a 9-12 sec wait to do another WS depending on how low your tp went.

Try using exclusively low cost 100 TP WS
0:00 | 1000 - 100 = 900 TP
0:03 | 900 + 30 - 100 = 830 TP
0:06 | 830 + 30 - 100 = 760 TP
0:09 | 760 + 30 - 100 = 690 TP
0:12 | 690 + 30 - 100 = 620 TP
0:15 | 620 + 30 - 100 = 550 TP
0:18 | 550 + 30 - 100 = 480 TP
0:21 | 480 + 30 - 100 = 410 TP
0:24 | 410 + 30 - 100 = 340 TP
0:27 | 340 + 30 - 100 = 270 TP
0:30 | 270 + 30 - 100 = 200 TP
0:33 | 200 + 30 - 100 = 130 TP
0:36 | 130 + 30 - 100 = 60 TP
0:39 | 60 + 30 = 90 TP - No WS used
0:41 | 90 + 30 - 100 = 20 TP
0:44 | 20 + 30 = 50 TP - No WS used
0:47 | 50 + 30 = 90 TP - No WS used
0:50 | 90 + 30 - 100 = 20 TP

After 39 seconds you start to get TP starved and have 9 sec wait between WS. In a real fight you probably wouldn't be exclusively using your 2 weakest WS.

Now for short fights like quest mobs this is fine cause they don't last long at all and you get out of combat and get that 100 TP regen. Makes it look like the system seems great. However we didn't see any long boss fights. This only seems to be an issue with mobs that last longer then 30 sec. Although there might be abilities to regen tp perhaps? Guess we will see in beta how this plays out.

After you run out of tp once it seems to stuffer from the same problem they had with stamina where people would be sitting around waiting for it to fill up then hitting their button. Hope they do something about this.

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I doubt we'll have to disengage to build TP. This isn't 2005 people. -_-

with this system,the challenge is maintaining your skill rotation on boss fight, imagine Garuda fight, in which phase we should maintain our TP , to let us burst damage on correct phase. This also will let players have different playstyles (tempo) on executing skills and Auto attack.

and also mixing that to the rythm of garuda attacks , that's the thing i liked the most in wow many things to do during a bossfight and if you don't do it correctly enough it can be awfull , rah the wipes when the boss is at 1 % life !

If they change store tp materia to regen tp it may actually do something neat.. Cant imagine what a samurai like class would look like if they keep it similar to FFXI though...

The thing I was most wondering is what the dps of classes will be after this change, when in long term fights - I wonder if melee classes will get the BLM burnt feeling now.. lol "Aww man.. gotta run around now and wait for my tp guys".

WHM is going to out last us all in resource management lol

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Originally Posted by vax

Hmm, with TP being regenerated over time, now the fight will be something like spam WS, then disengage, full TP rest and go again?

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TP will regen normally when in active and when encuring enmity, unlike MP. Else it would become a major issue with tanks, since they cant just disengage and go rest.

And the video showed it regenerating at 30 per tick, which could be increased by special gear or materia.. and possibly ajusted between now and forever.

I thought I saw in the translated official version of the recent talk session, something about tp regen being the same rate as mp and no longer generated by being hit. Hmm gotta go check now.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Good evening!

I have some information regarding the new TP system for you all:
Regardless of your level, the maximum TP value will be set at 1000. As Zumi mentioned, in A Realm Reborn, TP is generated over time and not through auto-attacks. On the other hand, it will be possible to increase MP through equipment and leveling up.

Alongside the TP system changes, we will be adjusting the stats on some equipment and materia. It's a bit early to get into specifics but once we have finalized these decisions, we'll be sure to let you know!

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Thats a typo and you ment tp right?

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

Thats a typo and you ment tp right?

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Um I dont think so. The point is, TP is similar to MP, but the difference is you can expand MP by level up and equipment,while TP is always 1000 regardless of the lvl

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Originally Posted by Aion

Um I dont think so. The point is, TP is similar to MP, but the difference is you can expand MP by level up and equipment,while TP is always 1000 regardless of the lvl

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yeah i just read the jp > english translation thread just seemed odd cus we've always had the ability to increase mp lol

Sounds like the stamina gauge all over again... spam while full then fire one off as soon as you get enough TP.

Not sure if I like that...will have to wait to get some hands on and see how it plays out.

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

yeah i just read the jp > english translation thread just seemed odd cus we've always had the ability to increase mp lol

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Ya the point is tp is always 1k

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

Sounds like the stamina gauge all over again... spam while full then fire one off as soon as you get enough TP.

Not sure if I like that...will have to wait to get some hands on and see how it plays out.

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Have you never played any other games with a resource like this? That's why people create rotations, no one burns out the recourse and just sits around.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Why would you do that, except if you are dangerously close to pulling hate? This isn't like FFXI, you won't be triggering special attacks by auto-attacking. There is no reason to hold back except to control hate.

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In example on a boss when tank got enough hate to keep it, a Dragoon go with full tp and spam all the ws, then because AA won't give any tp and stay away from the NM will be safe for AoE. Also, idk how will work on 2.0, but if TP regenerate faster on passive is other point to stay away.

Next thing they need to do is can't use weaponskills while moving.

Hey if I can't say Firaga, and move at the same time, then melees shouldn't be able to weaponskill while moving either.

It's for pvp, it's only fair, and it should be implemented before pvp is even out.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Next thing they need to do is can't use weaponskills while moving.

Hey if I can't say Firaga, and move at the same time, then melees shouldn't be able to weaponskill while moving either.

It's for pvp, it's only fair, and it should be implemented before pvp is even out.

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In wow mages can't move while casting but warriors could move while attacking , and mages could still defend themselve.
Having animation lock just make the game look weird ( oh i can't move because i'm attacking ! ... ) and make the game too slow so you'll lack that dynamic gameplay , i don't even speak of raid bosses ,
"Why didn't you avoid the flames ?
-i was attacking ! "
But they should also add instant spells for mages or spells that you can cast while moving .

force the player not to move while attacking always look weird and slow the game .

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Originally Posted by lololink

In wow mages can't move while casting but warriors could move while attacking , and mages could still defend themselve.
Having animation lock just make the game look weird ( oh i can't move because i'm attacking ! ... ) and make the game too slow so you'll lack that dynamic gameplay , i don't even speak of raid bosses ,
"Why didn't you avoid the flames ?
-i was attacking ! "
But they should also add instant spells for mages or spells that you can cast while moving.

force the player not to move while attacking always look weird and slow the game .

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This man gets it.

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Originally Posted by vax

In example on a boss when tank got enough hate to keep it, a Dragoon go with full tp and spam all the ws, then because AA won't give any tp and stay away from the NM will be safe for AoE. Also, idk how will work on 2.0, but if TP regenerate faster on passive is other point to stay away.

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I think it is a bad idea fir them to reward going into passive during battle. Hitting for tp makes sense. Plus more our damage will be 100% weapon sill. What is point of auto-attack?