Are we expecting TO MUCH from 8.0?

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Though at the end of the day I really do hope DT is a wake up call... just who knows really at this point.

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We lost 40% of our player base per LuckyBancho so if that shot across their bow does not get their attention, I don’t know what will.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

We lost 40% of our player base per LuckyBancho so if that shot across their bow does not get their attention, I don’t know what will.

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I was reading their investor explanation a while ago and they literally blamed it on Covid, even though pre-Dawntrail had more players and was long after Covid.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I was reading their investor explanation a while ago and they literally blamed it on Covid, even though pre-Dawntrail had more players and was long after Covid.

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According to the population charts, our current active population is lower than what we had through all of COVID and we are now at pre-ShB population numbers.

The Moogle event is not helping this time and I know why. The rewards are good but the tomes we get per dungeon are awful except for the weekly or MSQ dungeons. If I want to do anything besides those, the tome rewards are so low it’s not worth it for me. Whoever is setting up the rewards needs to put down the mobile phone gatcha games and listen to us.

I want the next chapter in the main story to be more interesting.
I want beautiful set pieces and music.
I want interesting fights and some spice in the job design.
I want side stories to be entertaining.


That's all stuff I think is completely reasonable to request.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I was reading their investor explanation a while ago and they literally blamed it on Covid, even though pre-Dawntrail had more players and was long after Covid.

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Even IF Covid was still a valid excuse it's simply corporate talk which every company uses because they have to give a reason.
In the end though it doesn't matter and that's something some out there don't want to understand.
SE is a business and this game is a product. Investors and shareholders don't want excuses but plans for the future and while they might be fine short-term with such a reason, it won't stay that way.
A "well it was a covid peak" or "we just go back to normal numbers" is not something they want to hear or accept forever.
Sooner or later they will ask "but shouldn't the numbers go up again at one point to pre covid growth?"

As someone who has seen behind the scenes in another industry I promise you all, in the meeting rooms there is an entirely different tone and YoshiP is definitely not happy right now.
We already see signs of that with the glamour unlocking or the shift in tone from the start of DT ("you will see how great Wuk Lamat is" or "play other games").

If they really want to turn this game around they need to start communicating with us like they did prior to the ARR relaunch instead of the finance bros that they and that most companies listen to almost exclusively these days. The lack of communication and the wall of silence holding just as strong as ever is telling me that things won't be as great or as well done as they are expecting it to be or as anyone is hoping it will be. And that is purely on SE's own shoulders.

People need something to please look forward to to
We can't have another dud like DT

General sentiment: "We want the story to not be buns and gameplay to be marginally more engaging"

This guy: "Are we asking for too much?"

This community is cooked well done

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

history suggest that we need 3 expansion packs worth of buildup and foreshadowing before we can have another shadowbringers

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I beg to differ on that.

1.0=Bad ARR=Good HW=Great
SB=Bad ShB=Good EW=Great
DT=Bad 8.0=???

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

General sentiment: "We want the story to not be buns and gameplay to be marginally more engaging"

This guy: "Are we asking for too much?"

This community is cooked well done

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Literally my thought too. DT base story was mid but I've enjoyed most of the battle content. I just want the jobs to be a little more engaging, I feel like I'm falling asleep at the wheel of a car while playing a couple of them.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

We lost 40% of our player base per LuckyBancho so if that shot across their bow does not get their attention, I don’t know what will.

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Right I do think the drop in playerbase will hopefully wake them up to do something... Though I honestly don't know if I have much faith in it working out or not currently. But I'd welcome anything at this point as stagnation is why we're in this mess to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Jendic

I beg to differ on that.

1.0=Bad ARR=Good HW=Great
SB=Bad ShB=Good EW=Great
DT=Bad 8.0=???

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Putting EW above ShB is crazy work

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

If they really want to turn this game around they need to start communicating with us like they did prior to the ARR relaunch instead of the finance bros that they and that most companies listen to almost exclusively these days. The lack of communication and the wall of silence holding just as strong as ever is telling me that things won't be as great or as well done as they are expecting it to be or as anyone is hoping it will be. And that is purely on SE's own shoulders.

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Okay, then let's play devil's advocate here. Outside of speaking to the fuzz(your stockholders and finance dept.), they've actively taken feedback from everything - and guess what? The narrative gets flipped on its head when they listen to players. They give them what they want, but then it's basically a "No, not like that!" situation. This causes confusion over on the dev's end on what players want, and then if the players don't know what they want, then Yoshida just goes about doing whatever.

Think about that for a minute. With all this backlash, they know for a fact that Dawntrail is by and far the worst expansion in the game. When this era passes, I'm hoping they actually take to heart what we're saying here since constructive feedback is the best you can give a developer - if they don't listen? The game suffers for it. The argument that devs don't listen is pretty false, given how much immediate course correction came out of Dawntrail, but it's because your influencers, your media, and feedback is so loud they can't ignore it. That's the kicker.

People asking for undoing glamour restrictions? That went on forever and became loud enough they finally did it. I'm literally looking forward to that, but in general it's important to understand both sides of the coin and see where the issue lies in how we got here, not just putting full blame on devs all the time when it comes to MMOs considering that they've had a decent track record up until 6.1 when everything started to roll downhill.

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Originally Posted by Jendic

I beg to differ on that.

1.0=Bad ARR=Good HW=Great
SB=Bad ShB=Good EW=Great
DT=Bad 8.0=???

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I beg to differ on this. You can deliver a standalone game to actually make it work if the writing is actually good. That's why Shadowbringers is considered one of the greats and actually helped lead to the peak we were getting at that time.

In this case? You're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't mean it's all right.

1.0 everyone can agree was a disaster.

2.0 was decent, and was good for a while aside from the massive quest log you have to do just to reach Heavensward(which is literally people's roadblock majority of the time).

3.0 was good, though most people relate the expansion to Haurchefant because he's a goat in people's eyes. I kinda wish he had more screentime otherwise.

4.0 was actually not bad. Story-wise, it did feel like a mess because it's a war story, but it actually did feel alright imo. We got a bigger world expansion out of Gyr Abania and Doma, and the lore behind Doma was pretty amazing considering we stuck over there for more than half the entire expansion outside of the "I can fix her" allegations.

5.0 was actually the best story in the game in my opinion. It gets grim dark, and touches on some things that are particularly polarized in some regions at this time(Vauthry in particular being the baby he is was also amazing as a villain, but the tweeest). Heck, it even goes more into Ascians which people have been yearning and speculating for along with Zodiark and Hydaelyn.

6.0? I'd say it was a good expansion. The only issue I have is the whole Void Arc because up until 7.2, it was good. 7.3 onwards was...sloppy writing wise and had a major case of deus ex machina and writers speaking through Ysh'tola.

7.0 was a disaster because of this, as we got absolutely no build-up to the next expansion, which led to it being badly received - but aside from people blaming Wuk Lmao, the writing was bad because we were promised something, but never got it. No conflict between Scions outside of Thancred. Like, what the hell? We even had a bad first half because the pacing was so bad I could fall asleep during it.

I cannot state this any more than I have to: This game lives and dies by its narrative writing. That is completely what this is. Gameplay? That's subjective, since everyone has their own brand of gameplay they like in XIV. But what I'm purely talking about is just how 7.0 onwards in the narrative we did not get fed until 7.2 on top of the long, long production time they have. It's where I genuinely have to ask the devs: Do ya'll have enough content to sate people for that long? Because that's the exact argument that some influencers like Rinon have said. If you don't have enough content to last for 4 1/2 months, shorten the timeline and don't get lax.

Y'know the thing that gets to me is how people blame the lack of risk taking for why the game is losing subs when the risk-factor has been the same for the last 7 years, at least. Does it really take that long before people figure things out? Because that seems silly to me.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Y'know the thing that gets to me is how people blame the lack of risk taking for why the game is losing subs when the risk-factor has been the same for the last 7 years, at least. Does it really take that long before people figure things out? Because that seems silly to me.

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i mean healer mains have been in denial for longer than 7 years; it kept getting worse and worse with the effort they put into healing jobs. So sadly, yes, it does to be exact it took the story going downhill for people to accept the parts of the game that have been trash and have been for a long time, plus the average person in ffxiv community is a white knight who won't accept anything negative towards the game

Nope. I expect what we're probably gonna get.

A story that is painfully safe, quests where you talk to someone who tells you to go talk to someone without any turbulence or shake-ups inbetween, the same overmilked companions we've had for over a decade, probably a new class with the same job philosophy as the other classes, limited voice acting in a game that prides itself on storytelling via cutscenes (Why only ESO bothers with including voice acting in every.single.quest despite being on life support will always be a mystery to me), linear dungeons where you can only go one direction and will be on autopilot until the last boss shows up.

Some homes are beyond saving, they have to be torn down and built anew. Until this game has its own Cataclysm or ARR 2, there is nothing more to expect.

I'm always happy to be proven wrong though :D

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Originally Posted by NecroprincessCleo

i mean healer mains have been in denial for longer than 7 years; it kept getting worse and worse with the effort they put into healing jobs. So sadly, yes, it does to be exact it took the story going downhill for people to accept the parts of the game that have been trash and have been for a long time, plus the average person in ffxiv community is a white knight who won't accept anything negative towards the game

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As a career WHM, Here's is my story for the last 7 years:

The phases of loss:
Denial: The initial shock and disbelief regarding the loss.
.....AST, cross class and class balance took all my identity.
Anger: Frustration and helplessness often directed towards others or oneself.
.....Why doesn't anybody want WHM for raiding anymore, I can heal just as good as anybody else!
Bargaining: Attempting to negotiate or make deals to reverse the loss.
.....Ok, you can keep some of the stuff you took, but at least make my job wanted by others.
Depression: Deep feelings of sadness and despair as the reality of the loss sets in.
.....I have been replaced by a Warrior tank; I am no longer needed in content except to make queue's pop.
Acceptance: Coming to terms with the loss and finding a way to move forward.
.....At least I can look good standing around in my Theophany robe dyed pastel pink and pure white... right?... right?... What do you mean WHM no longer is exclusive on this anymore? --> Denial...

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

had to snip

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I don't think communication only should go one way, though. SE is sadly notorious for holding stone cold silence to the playerbase. We don't actually know what they are listening to and if they are listening at al because it is just not communicated until after the fact.
On top of that we don't even get a big chunk of the communication that is actually pushed out translated to english for western audiences which has led to some chaos and confusion in the past and likely will in future to come. A solid back and forth path of information is necessary for a community driven game to thrive. That way we would also know ahead of time if they are planning a big change that would be disastrous and could tell them loudly that it would not be a good idea so they have time to course correct before the patch hits and everyone gets angry at them.

I think I am a bit spoiled in that regard from my years playing WoW where they have whole departments literally dedicated to speaking to their players, playing the game and keeping an ear to the ground to plan things people are just kind of raving about in general. They even have employees monitoring some of the bigger fan driven discord channels. There are so, so many things SE could be doing to make sure they actually understand their customers and cater to them. Instead they have been bull-headedly forcing their vision of what they think is best for us on us. Reminds me of the famous "You think you want this but you really don't." It's hubris and it is a problem that is becoming more and more apparent.

This game has been built on false promises for a while now, so I expect big talk and the same slopfest that we have been served for the past years. I remember them talking big about the graphical update, only for it to be mediocre at best, most of the previous zones, bosses, NPC have never been updated.... It has been more than a year since 7.0's release.
At least if they could be honest about what they're delivering instead of teasing it for years only to be the same trash or half-baked content.

If it makes you feel better basically every complaint and talking point about the current state of things that we English players discuss is discussed on the Japanese speaking side.

The only thing that seems to be different is the confusion as to why we seemingly put in so many more weekly hours but have considerably lower high-end content clear rates. Combat and job design being tailored for the current top end content mostly stems from the fact Japanese players actually do it en mass and it's not as niche like it is for Western players. The percentages that do and don't raid is pretty much flipped between regions.

wow houseing 300 little med 600 large more they copyed ffx14 with carptry ect all skills it use to be just 2

ShB sets the bar too high, (IMHO) any expansion after that feels.... like water. Drinkable but taste plain. BUT still good and drinkable water though! Heheh.

ShB didn't set the bar too high. ShB set the bar to the quality of storywriting we had in FFXI. What we're seeing now are the results of a dev team who got too comfortable and felt they could get away with a lot of nonsense because of the “Yoshi-P can do no wrong” fanclub, aka the loud minority.
The forums lost a whole bunch of battles to people who are not here anymore people who would die-hard defend any slop given to us by the dev team and now we're the ones having to sit here through the disaster.

What do I know anyways, I'm just a delusional 1.0 player and there's nothing wrong with Dawntrail and Wuk Lamat is the best character ever made. I never cared for raiding coming from FFXI; we focused on beating a game to experience good quality story and cutscenes. Dawntrail offers none of that.

A story that bounces all over the place with a switcharoo that makes no sense. It saddens me a lot knowing Yoshi-P has golden staff from the FFXI dev team, and despite that, we still can't get good FFXI features here that would be groundbreaking to the newer generation who know nothing about MMORPGs outside the “WoW formula.

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Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

ShB sets the bar too high, (IMHO) any expansion after that feels.... like water. Drinkable but taste plain. BUT still good and drinkable water though! Heheh.

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Do not take this personally but this is the worst possible way to think about story writing in games.

Just because this is an MMO does not mean you cannot give the story the same love and attention a singleplayer game could have. It is jarring to jump from indie titles and even other AAA games to FFXIV and feel like this is 2010 when writing was not a focus at all and you were mostly focused on the gameplay. But it is not that anymore. They have writers on the team that are experienced, they have a whole host of game libraries and even movies to look at - hell, even if you want to say they do not want western influences, okay, there's a boatload of japanese titles that tell insanely good stories! Shadowbringers was good. I did love it, but even it had shortcomings. Pretending like a having fun experiencing a story could never be replicated is crazy work.

This game has so, so many unfinished plot points. Touching on any of them would be a great jumping off point. FFXIV plays in a constantly shifting, multifaceted world, even without the existence of the other shards. I bet you a lot of people even just here in the forums could come up with an interesting expansion even without writing training.
It just does not compute to me why SE has this fanbase that will just eat up any slop they vomit up like it's the god's nectar and then turn on any people speaking dissent as if they are blasphemers. It's a big part of what has been holding this game back. The community is actively protecting bad practices. It is the exact same behavior you can observe in Pokemon fans. It's making the games worse, not better.

FFXIV needs to evolve with the times. Just write a good damn story and then build the quests around it. Set up proper pacing, character development and plot points that feel like they have a real impact on the player.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

snip for length

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Interesting to hear, thank you for that input, it does give some context to what is happening. But the fact alone this that has to be communicated by you, a private person, is a problem. The devs just have massive blinders on when it comes to EU and US players.

I can also pretty easily explain why the raiding gap exists. The western players that love raiding play WoW.
This is not to shit on FFXIV, it's just that WoW has always been the creme of the crop when it comes to cutting edge for MMO group content and it happens to be a western game that has heavily catered to western audiences until making the jump to china. There is a massive variety of content balanced around all classes (jobs) and they are constantly pushing for the optimal difficulty to be challenging to their highest end players while also offering step by step increases to work your way up to there. The way WoW handles gearing up and progression is very different to FFXIV and they have been innovating in that field for years. Decades even at this point. That is why the common consensus is that you play WoW for the gameplay and FFXIV for the story.

I can't speak on the japanese demographic as a european, I don't really have friends there or in any of the east asian countries. From my observations over the years though I have noticed that the hardcore dedication to games tends to be much stronger over there versus in the west and they will perfect anything through sheer power of will despite how hard it might be. It's honestly impressive, I could never. However, catering to that part of the playerbase will inevitably lead to the less hardcore players being alienated. I don't think instance design and group content is going in a good direction. The game will not be able to sustain itself off just the japanese base, at least not if they want to keep making money off the franchise.

I hate to harp on it too much but currently we are seeing a massive shift and revamp of all systems in WoW. Not just that, they did housing and it is, on beta even, already better than what FFXIV has had for years.

We keep being told 'it can't be done' while watching other games do what we are begging them to. It is so bloody sad because I love this game. I really fell in love with the world and characters but actually playing feels like a chore, like a toxic relationship I am just too hung up on to quit. And the player numbers represent this, too.

This focus on one specific part of the playerbase has to stop.

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Originally Posted by NecroprincessCleo

i mean healer mains have been in denial for longer than 7 years; it kept getting worse and worse with the effort they put into healing jobs. So sadly, yes, it does to be exact it took the story going downhill for people to accept the parts of the game that have been trash and have been for a long time, plus the average person in ffxiv community is a white knight who won't accept anything negative towards the game

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Pretty messed up for the numbers to constantly keep going up all due to cope and white knighting. Imagine going to your management and trying to convince them that your game design is actually garbage and the only reason you were once successful was because of denial and fanaticism.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Pretty messed up for the numbers to constantly keep going up all due to cope and white knighting. Imagine going to your management and trying to convince them that your game design is actually garbage and the only reason you were once successful was because of denial and fanaticism.

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Ill be honest, "yes this is my opinion" but i feel like the game was perfect in Heavensward and stormblood, sure story issue at phases but overall was amazing after that it start to go downhill," in my eyes anyways. shadowbrings story was amazing yes, some the fights were really fun yes but the jobs and combat sucked which we ignored "well most people ignored due to story and fun music this was also the time period where wow refuges overwhelmed ffxiv cuz shadowlands sucked badly in wow lol

yes yes you all are expecting way way to much.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

yes yes you all are expecting way way to much.

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I mean lets look at facts

its taken them what 4 months for each new patch this expansion, and if you look at the desperation they are showing like with the glam thing... I think even the highest expection is still low compared to what they honestly owe us at this point with all the .... yaa

"Expecting too much"? The only thing I am expecting is a story that isn't so bad I need to take a break from it. Dawntrail had one of the worst stories in any game I've ever played, period. Even in ARR I didn't need to get up from the story and take time away before I could finish it but by the time we hit the goblin village in DT I was absolutely groaning with how awful it all was. Basically for me, 8.0 looks like this:

What I expect: A return to form when it comes to writing, because DT was inexcusably horrid compared to previous expansions.

What I want (but do not expect): Actual midcore content and for them to stop pandering to savage/ultimate players exclusively when releasing new content (like with OC). I am so tired of them making content PF groups and pugs cannot get through without it feeling like pulling teeth, not everyone has a static of competent players and the vast majority of the playerbase cannot handle hardcore content. We also really need broad class redesign, drop the "2 minute meta", take difficulty out of the content a bit and put it back into the jobs because every job currently has an absolutely braindead rotation and they justify this by making every fight an insanely choreographed dance routine. It's very lopsided and tiring.

But as I noted, the latter bit on content and difficulty is just a wish list. My only expectation is for the story to not be utter garbage like DT's was.

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Originally Posted by FeyFavilla

This focus on one specific part of the playerbase has to stop.

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My theory is part of the reason the devs are experimenting with more content that's "midcore" in difficulty and DT's overall jump in base difficulty is to make it easier for casual players to make the jump to EX and Savage.

One extra detail, too, is that the Japanese player base is both more PUG friendly and more reliant of them to do higher difficulty content. They fully utilize the raid finder to do it, and even have their own unique form of macro communication to show which methods they're going to use that fight. They both made it easier to enter but also have different expectations of said randoms.

NA and EU are generally more about statics and generally focus on learning during a short window post release, which severely lowers the amount of players that can just walk into savage at any time.

I don't know how much of that is from WoW's culture bleeding into other MMOs.

To be honest the “do everything to feed people into savage” has two main faults

1) it assumes (which is totally Japan centric) that everyone actually wants to do savage or would do it if given the opportunity. As someone who used to do savage but dropped it in late EW because I simply didn’t enjoy it anymore they won’t convince me do savage again unless they went back to coils and there is alot of people at the other end who will never feel ready to do savage and that isn’t a wrong way to think. A lot of people asking for the nebulous “midcore” don’t actually want a stepping stone to savage, they simply want fulfilling content that isn’t a pushover but also ISNT savage

2) jobs are so deeply intertwined with the game refusing to acknowledge them isn’t helping their marketing for savage. Sure savage is harder which technically makes the jobs more engaging but are you actually being engaged by the job vs the encounter hiding the faults of the job. I know that for example healers while having a role in savage aren’t made better by savage, you trade doing a boring encounter irregularly for a less boring encounter much more frequently that still shows off the endless flaws of the job

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

A lot of people asking for the nebulous “midcore” don’t actually want a stepping stone to savage, they simply want fulfilling content that isn’t a pushover but also ISNT savage

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100, this is me!

I'm not interested in doing Savage anymore. I don't find it fun. I don't want a "stepping stone" to savage. I won't be convinced to do savage.
I like having a bit of battle content that provides a bit more tension than the regular ish, but isn't "slam your head against the wall till you finally clear it" content.

i agree as well.
i wanna have midcore for the fun of it. as its own thing and not as a stepping stone.

Stopped raiding last tier and I've been very happy about it so far. Not everybody is interested into every piece of content. Expecting people to all go for extremes/savage+ isn't very far off expecting everybody to go for ranked pvp or mahjong to me.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

I don't know how much of that is from WoW's culture bleeding into other MMOs.

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Probably bleeding in quite a lot because that is exactly how WoW does it. WoW raids beyond Normal (which is the first step above the difficulty you can queue for, their naming is a bit different) absolutely require a solid, practiced team, often with VC for interrupts and mechanics that require on the fly adaptation. Pugging is seen as a chore due to having to pick up players who are not familiar with each other and add a variable to the fight that makes it harder to clear.

I am fascinated to see that Japan figured out a way to circumvent this system and it does sound far more kind to people who are more casual about end-game instances but I don't see this changing in the west any time soon. It is sadly just another indicator that the devs do not interact with western audiences because if they did this would be known instantly as an issue, though. I do understand that it is difficult to cater to such different gaming cultures but this is not a small indie game. They have millions at their disposal to work out a strategy.

They need to get their ducks in order before 8.0. WoW's currently dropping expansion is not only making the game more accessible to casual players by streamlining the playstyles of classed (jobs), mechanics in fights by removing the necessity to rely on add-ons for bosses as they are breaking into the console market and is adding a whole host of casual content, they have just implemented housing, low entry cost, available to EVERYONE, in a way that is smooth, well rounded and flexibly upgrade-able without even the threat of having everything taken from you if you cancel your sub. I will not go and list all features, but this is a threat. At this point the only things setting FFXIV apart are the visual style and old, long existing communities, which are already decaying due to stagnation and other offending problems.

8.0 has to slap. It HAS TO. The competition is actively sliding into their market. They cannot afford to just do a cookie-cutter expansion. The internet talks. Having to watch other MMOs innovate and move on, be on top of trends and technical progress, listen and communicate with their players will drive people away.

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Originally Posted by FeyFavilla

they have just implemented housing, low entry cost, available to EVERYONE, in a way that is smooth, well rounded and flexibly upgrade-able without even the threat of having everything taken from you if you cancel your sub.

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Housing is a major anchor for a sizeable amount of players (especially those owning rare furniture or a medium/large house). I've only seen a clip of a WoW player making a christmas-themed house and I have to admit I'm jealous.

They have a proper gizmo system that enables clipping and you can scale up or down the items (as well as rotate them without limitation). Already that's a major boon over vanilla housing decorating.

Square needs to innovate, actually innovate.

I wouldn't treat JP like a monolith that gladly consumes savage/ultimates. The DDR you fail you wipe's been a common complaint since late Endwalker and people have been leaving over those mechanics bleeding into Extremes and their trying to pull people into Savage+ with Chaotic/Fork Tower and so on. If you look at other corners of the internet you see a lot of comments blasting the game for it, especially nowadays now that many of the defenders turned or left.

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Originally Posted by Shinku_Tachi

100, this is me!

I'm not interested in doing Savage anymore. I don't find it fun. I don't want a "stepping stone" to savage. I won't be convinced to do savage.
I like having a bit of battle content that provides a bit more tension than the regular ish, but isn't "slam your head against the wall till you finally clear it" content.

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I think this is the thing Jobs make savage more fun when designed well, The devs are avoiding making them fun or interesting because they dont wan't people to "feel bad" about being bad at a job is the same reason they made EW dungeons very bland, DT they slightly improved that but I think jobs need more then "slightly improving" to actually be fun.

People complain theirs nothing to do in particular more these days without realising if the Jobs were unique repeating content on a different job could... possibly make the experience more unique and slightly more fun, trust me theirs much more relics to grind if you have the motivation to play more then one job... The issue is where's that motivation when every job feels the same roles like healer and tank are barely functional in 90% of content ect. Most people do one thing on one job and forget about it, even levelling jobs becomes painful and not exciting anymore (It took me so long to get everything to 100 on my main).

Unironically for me by trying to make jobs appeal to everyone no job really appeals to me for cool different unique design. I was thinking of leveling gearing black mage on my alt (this character) before the changes in 7.2, now I haven't even attempted the new tier because frankly the enjoyment from it was took out already.