So Yoshi-P just confirmed jobs won't get a big rework in 8.0.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I can't disagree more and this may be proof a segment of players on the forums cannot read.

Player choice / talent tree / specialization can potentially be a big change.

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I don't think it's a reading issue. People are just not giving SE the benefit of the doubt on job design, and "potential" changes. These changes could range from good to bad, and we've been on a certain trend since Shadowbringers that contributes to most people's opinion here. Some would say it even started before that.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

When they first made role actions they just took 10 things from our existing kits and locked it behind a system where you could only pick 5, so until Yoshi-P says "we learned from our past mistakes" it seems pretty reasonable to expect any new system to be meaningless choices at best, especially when framed with the statement that nothing is going to change about how your job plays.

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He did not say nothing about how your job plays will change. He said quote

"For players who like things they are, their experience won't change".

There are many ways to interpret that statement. It can be very broad, or ultra specific. We don't know what "experience" means here. We don't know what he means by "things". Example: its not like the changes are going to do away with the trinity, or erase cast times, ie something that would fundamentally change the game. He could mean that.

Its purposefully vague so you cannot guess.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

I don't think it's a reading issue. People are just not giving SE the benefit of the doubt on job design, and "potential" changes. These changes could range from good to bad, and we've been on a certain trend since Shadowbringers that contributes to most people's opinion here. Some would say it even started before that.

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See my comments above. Reading is important. And look I won't nitpick further. If people want to just lie and ragebait, I am not going to lecture. I've given my advice, take it or leave it. Saying the devs are liars is one thing, making a topic that claims something untrue is different. Moreover there was never a specific agreement as to a "major overhaul" of jobs in the first place. I am just not a fan of ragebait, sorry.


And someone can quote me and say "that is not a reading issue" well we agree to disagree and I won't argue further. From my perspective people are reading words and then literally writing over them.

I wish that they'd do like, a beta or preview build of the combat for players to try out and provide feedback on before the expansion release.

Honestly probably best not to assume anything because this statement is extremely vague. I just wish they'd be a bit more forthcoming with their plans and let the players provide feedback on them before release to ensure they are good/acceptable to us, you know?

Like maybe they could make it so that you can preview the work in progress changes with the striking dummy, or something, so that we can get a feel for the rotation and a sense of how it plays before we provide feedback.

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Originally Posted by SKAshe

I wish that they'd do like, a beta or preview build of the combat for players to try out and provide feedback on before the expansion release.

Honestly probably best not to assume anything because this statement is extremely vague. I just wish they'd be a bit more forthcoming with their plans and let the players provide feedback on them before release to ensure they are good/acceptable to us, you know?

Like maybe they could make it so that you can preview the work in progress changes with the striking dummy, or something, so that we can get a feel for the rotation and a sense of how it plays before we provide feedback.

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This is a take I actually agree with. Other games do offer previews as such and.it could be helpful instead of launching 8.0 and being a disaster.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

This makes me think the current jobs will stay in some form and maybe we get specs like in other games, so you could choose between two versions of each job for instance? It could be interesting to see the jobs get specialisations to choose between different flavours of gameplay.

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Can't wait to run roulettes with a healer who spec'd into healing, so they can overheal by 300% instead of 200%.

Just rename it to world of fantasy or final warcraft at this point

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Originally Posted by brinn12

I don't think it's a reading issue. People are just not giving SE the benefit of the doubt on job design, and "potential" changes. These changes could range from good to bad, and we've been on a certain trend since Shadowbringers that contributes to most people's opinion here. Some would say it even started before that.

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I would say this actually started in a more tangible way in Stormblood. I started at the beginning of that expansion and I'll never forget unlocking ninja and reading the tool tips about my elemental abilities, then coming back one day (I didn't follow the forums or the live letters back then) and someone telling me to use raiton on a pack of bombs in one of the dungeons. I was like "why would I use a fire ability on those?" and their obvious answer was that it didn't matter anymore. That for me was the first "wtf" moment, and in Shadowbringers homogenization became a bigger thing. I also played Summoner as I came from FFXI and loved that job, but like that job got gutted all the way through to EW.

Edit as I was typing that: POTENTIALLY you could go as far back as HW or maybe it was the end or ARR. The example I can think of in particular was when they started taking the floor tanking gear away from dragoons. When I first leveled it I thought it was kinda cool to pseudo swap roles based on the gear we had, but like at level 50 that completely goes away. Same with wand's and shields for a little more surviveability vs staffs and rods.

This has been a hole that they have dug for A LOOOOONG time, and I FEEL like this was always the game plan from a business perspective, from the shift from 1.0 to the WOW battle system (even though 1.0's battle system wans't even as good as FFXI admittedly). In statistics you have to looks at data trends and its not hard to see the picture clearly if you dig into the data and look back. And to be fair, i'm not saying that ALLLL of it was their fault, but like look at the content like Diadem. They just gave up on it. Look at the leveling of other classes to get cross class roles, they just gave up on it. Each time they just give up on the design of it, (because its harder) it in turn kills a massive chunk of content. In the cross class roles instance, it kills a REASON for people to try and level ALL jobs. It's just incompetence in design, probably with a mix of knowing where they wanted to go anyways, which kinda gives them an excuse now that I think about it. It also seems like the direction veers towards a more MMO like Diablo experience, which we all know Yoshi P. loves, except you instance queue for everything while posing "glam" in a city like its a mobile game.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

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No, I've read the interview, and nothing OP said is wrong. Adding something on top of 7-expansion rotations doesn't seem like a big deal to me either. CBU3 always plays as safely as they can. It's fine if you have a different interpretation, but this thread isn't ragebait. I wouldn't be surprised if their specialization ends up being a choice between adding a 1% raid buff or a 60-second GCD to a job's burst.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

This doesn't make any sense because the second statement negates the first one.

The reason jobs feel homogenized is because of how they play TODAY. How can he counter homogenization with leaving things as they are?

Fast forward we get "Limited Job Actions" that are in fact flavorful, not homogenized and not necessarily balanced, but only usable outside of High End duties LOL.

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WoW's devs tried that in what is regarded as the worst or second worst expansion in its 21 year history, and when they tried it again in the other contender for its worst expansion, the community backlash was so intense that it got canned before leaving the test server.

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Originally Posted by Domina

Just rename it to world of fantasy or final warcraft at this point

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That would imply actually diverse class design, so no.

Say what you want about WoW's sometimes abysmal balance, but a Restoration Druid plays nothing like a Discipline Priest which plays nothing like a Holy Paladin.
Nor does a Protection Warrior play like a Blood Death Knight or a Brewmaster Monk.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

No, I've read the interview, and nothing OP said is wrong. Adding something on top of 7-expansion rotations doesn't seem like a big deal to me either. CBU3 always plays as safely as they can. It's fine if you have a different interpretation, but this thread isn't ragebait. I wouldn't be surprised if their specialization ends up being a choice between adding a 1% raid buff or a 60-second GCD to a job's burst.

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Its wrong to say Yoshi P confirmed something then just give an interpretation

I think the state of the game is not just stubborn devs but also stubborn players. Forums have lots of great feedback, but this is not it I am sorry to say.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I can't disagree more and this may be proof a segment of players on the forums cannot read.

Player choice / talent tree / specialization can potentially be a big change.

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aint no way SE does anything like a talent tree with 20+ jobs.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

WoW's devs tried that in what is regarded as the worst or second worst expansion in its 21 year history, and when they tried it again in the other contender for its worst expansion, the community backlash was so intense that it got canned before leaving the test server.

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Was that Shadowlands? I quit during BfA, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

so you could choose between two versions of each job for instance?

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It sounds like old AST.
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag..._Sect_Icon.pnghttps://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag..._Sect_Icon.png

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

It sounds like old AST.
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag..._Sect_Icon.pnghttps://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag..._Sect_Icon.png

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Never forget Nocturnal sect, the thing i used to casually run when I healed back in ShB. Shouldn't have been removed.

I honestly can't fathom why he'd say this. YoshiP just shot every single player hoping for 8.0 to save FFXIV, and without giving them something else to be excited about in return... :(
2026 will really be a grim year for FFXIV.

peps calling for yoshi p to step down are out of touch before the game started going down hill quality wise they demoted the guy xD

I'm pretty sure the issues are corp level not on the director or the dev team xD

but yeah the game is in a sorry state best thing you can do is vote with your wallet it is what I'll be doing if the quality stays more the same. :3

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Originally Posted by XtremePrime

I honestly can't fathom why he'd say this. YoshiP just shot every single player hoping for 8.0 to save FFXIV, and without giving them something else to be excited about in return... :(
2026 will really be a grim year for FFXIV.

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Whatever they reveal by title gets overspeculated, and then they either have to delay it to develop what players expect (island) or release what they planned, but it's 10% of what players expected :) They do have a communication issue, and then a problem with the flexibility of development - opting for very "safe" and very uninspiring features/solutions.

All that's missing is a poor reveal trailer or "heart and soul of Dawntrail" hating on players in it ;)

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

peps calling for yoshi p to step down are out of touch before the game started going down hill quality wise they demoted the guy xD

I'm pretty sure the issues are corp level not on the director or the dev team xD

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The Japanese have been calling him a Liar for some time, and they aren't holding back as much as the English playerbase. He was against headgear/headwear for Hroth and Viera, he was against missing genders for them, but the lower level went and made it against him. He is the director, he is opting for a very "safe" solution, and his very specific view of the game. He will be first to blame rather than no-names as well ;)

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Its wrong to say Yoshi P confirmed something then just give an interpretation

I think the state of the game is not just stubborn devs but also stubborn players. Forums have lots of great feedback, but this is not it I am sorry to say.

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There is no big rework, though. Yoshi-P's words are clear to me. You can believe that if you want.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

There is no big rework, though. Yoshi-P's words are clear to me. You can believe that if you want.

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Does anyone remember when Yoshi P did that mare update when he had to break it down so specifically so that even toddlers could understand?

I remember. Pepperidge farm remembers.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Does anyone remember when Yoshi P did that mare update when he had to break it down so specifically so that even toddlers could understand?

I remember. Pepperidge farm remembers.

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I think the main issue here is you don't understand OP's definition of "big rework". Maybe Yoshi-P could help you with that.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

I think the main issue here is you don't understand OP's definition of "big rework". Maybe Yoshi-P could help you with that.

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This is where you are not understanding that big rework is indefinable and, to my knowledge, never promised to you. What was promised is refining the identity of each job to help with the homogenization issue. What you think is irrelevant to me and Yoshi P as well.

This is basically like saying, "Yoshi P just confirmed Yshtola wont die in 8.0". Literally no one told us that was going to happen. So your point is you are telling me you are disappointed, not that Yoshi P confirmed anything.

While I understand your disappointment it does not make sense, respectfully. Jobs do not have to be entirely redone to be effectively reworked. His statements do not confirm the preservation of two minute meta. It doesn't confirm anything in great specifity except that the overall experience will still be familiar, which makes sense given some people have gotten very carried away.

awful if true, awful

I find it frustrating that he's beating around the bush just to not to kill the sales and the hype for fanfests.

He's doing this tactic since years and the "mysterious" tidbits harm his name more than building hype.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I can't disagree more and this may be proof a segment of players on the forums cannot read.

Player choice / talent tree / specialization can potentially be a big change.

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player choice went out the window a long long time ago. the kits are continuously going to be down. Shoot. They did away with hard mode because people cried they were to difficult. they nerfed Orbonne because people didn't like doing mechanics. There won't be a specialization tree because once one specialization becomes meta the rest becomes moot. If anything, i see them bringing back stuff possibly from 5.0 related to jobs to bring some job identity back and still keep it within the 2 min meta.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

This is where you are not understanding that big rework is indefinable and, to my knowledge, never promised to you. What was promised is refining the identity of each job to help with the homogenization issue. What you think is irrelevant to me and Yoshi P as well.

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"Big rework" is definitely definable. It's just a relative concept, and I think you are mistaking the two.

There's an entire context behind that promise, with Yoshi-P expressing regrets over the 2-minute meta and simplified jobs in the same interview. All of this opens room for different interpretations. Of course the thread represents an opinion. What is job identity? Yoshi-P speaks in riddles and apparently we don't even know the meaning of the word "cost". It seems that native Japanese speakers didn't understand that as well. To many, Yoshi-P did promise major job overhaul. It's very easy to pick the wrong words and put the blame on the community, or try to sneak and avoid past promises.

What he means is a bit more nebulous when you're not cherry picking parts.

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But "when it comes to using the jobs in battle content and bringing out more of that uniqueness of each job, we are working on a big update." Before Dawntrail even launched, Yoshi-P had teased that he wanted to counteract 'class homogenization' in an overhaul that was planned for 8.0.

As for what that will look like, he explains that "People might think of it as an expansion of the system that we have in the game. So the players who already like the way things are can feel at ease that nothing is going to change for their experience. But we are trying to do something new on top of what we already have."

Yoshida says he's unable to share more on this at this point in time, and I doubt we'll get much news on the matter until at least Fanfest 2026, but he reemphasizes: "In terms of the individuality of each job and also showcasing the player character to the fullest in terms of how they are the hero of the game, we want to continue placing importance on both of these aspects moving forward." If you were among those frustrated by our more back-bench role in Dawntrail's MSQ, that'll likely come as welcome news.

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Of note are these sections:

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But "when it comes to using the jobs in battle content and bringing out more of that uniqueness of each job, we are working on a big update."

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"In terms of the individuality of each job and also showcasing the player character to the fullest in terms of how they are the hero of the game, we want to continue placing importance on both of these aspects moving forward."

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Obviously it would be impossible to "bring out more of the uniqueness of each job" while also keeping everything exactly the same as now, so what does he mean?

He could simply mean that the combat system isn't going to suddenly turn into Age of Conan or anything radically different and it's just the jobs themselves that are getting spruced up.

Or he could mean that the jobs aren't going to change much from how they are now and they're layering something like a WoW talent system on top of it. Personally I despise WoW talents so something like that or specs would be the worst case scenario IMO.

In any case, as a huge critic of the current job design this article is a tad concerning but I think it's too vague to really get worked up over. We'll know in a few months what the plan is and whether all is lost.

So we're just going to get level 110 then.

I can't wait for Enhanced Shadowstride!

Yoship: People forget we're humans too
Us: Doubt (X)

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

We'll know in a few months what the plan is and whether all is lost.

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If they release job info at the usual point in the cycle then it'll be at least 15 months from now.

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Originally Posted by Seraph_Variel

Never forget Nocturnal sect, the thing i used to casually run when I healed back in ShB. Shouldn't have been removed.

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Especially because it was removed for nothing.

In the end the healer sub-division they made ended not mattering a lot, especially seeing so much overlap between the healing tools and many comps excelling in SGE+SCH.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

If they release job info at the usual point in the cycle then it'll be at least 15 months from now.

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That's true for the usual "you get a bigger fireball" additions, but if they're cooking up some huge new feature or rework I could see it being revealed much sooner, especially since he keeps teasing it in every interview. You could be correct though, we'll just have to wait and see.

If you expect radical changes, I don't know what to tell you. Go play other games, maybe?

Nobody ragebaits the FF14 community more than the FF14 coummunity itself.

Interested in how they're going to make phys ranged players feel 'heroic' considering how poorly they've been treating the role. Are they finally going to lean into the marksman architype-?

One thing I can say wholeheartedly is that the last thing I feel when spamming the laser hair removal spell on Sage 187 times in a boss fight is "heroic." "Pathetic" I think would be the word I'd use.

they always tell us stuff, it always sounds good and it is never really wrong.

but its always in a way that a normal player gets led to an expectation they wont fulfill in the end.

its one thing if people expect too much a few times. but its another if they expect more or less reasonable things and its wrong times and times again

We have a lot of jobs in each category. Why can't they just pick one to fit certain play styles. So blm is a super complex rotation, smn is extremely simple, and rdm is a mix. If most players play smn oh well, players have a choice. They make content only a tiny bit engages with anyways. So what if only a few players like blm.

At this point I am just convinced many of you cannot handle the truth since I keep exclusively being repeatedly quoted. You just keep insisting I repeat myself in what I assume is an attempt to silence me with post count exhaustion.

In any case I never said specifically talent trees are going to happen or whatever else. I said expansion could be a good thing and gave examples. I said the thread is ragebait because it is. Yoshi P didn't confirm jack except that he is good at corporatespeak. The things people saying ITT are all opinions. Seems like we all agree except you just don't want me to call it ragebaiting when that is what it is. It comes across as a news update, but its just ranting.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6750680

This post gives the actual full statement as well which reinforces that we may be jumping to conclusions as to how significant these updates will be. Its hard to tell if they will be superficial or not unless you make huge assumptions. The team promised to work on encounter design this expansion and to be fair, we did see results there. So no they do not lie and fail at everything.

FFXIV is just slop. Now and forever. I'll keep playing til it dies or I do, but I have no more illusions about what it's become.