Something needs to be done about .X5 content cycle

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Originally Posted by Bryson

If "eaten it" means cleared the content and they still have critiques regardin what they've actually engage in, yes I'm all for that.

What I don't care for, is people who haven't eaten, tasted, tried etc etc, and still complain.

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Well here's the reason why I brought my analogy up: you have people who refuse to touch current content because its no different than last time.

And for me personally:

I'm not engaging in CAR because it 100% wasn't what I asked for and I refuse to add another number to its "success". Other people who enjoy it can have it, but I'm not going to make SE think I'm satisfied. I wanted AR Unreal not w/e the hells you want to call CAR.
V/C when it comes out likewise unless I see certain changes. If its literally akin to EW's with say more Lost Action type abilities it will also be a no. The core concept of it I hate I'm not going to continue with it.
Savage/EX pretty much is in the same ball park. I'm sure the mechanics are a lot better, but the jobs I engage them with are just as bad or worse than EW's. There's no point.

I'm actually surprised that the map dungeon hasn't been brought up. Its gone from 5 floors, each with 2 doors with a random choice of moving forward, to a floating platform with a gambling machine

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

I'm actually surprised that the map dungeon hasn't been brought up. Its gone from 5 floors, each with 2 doors with a random choice of moving forward, to a floating platform with a gambling machine

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That's every middle of expansion map dungeon since Stormblood. Only difference with previous expansions is that this one uses slots and the previous used a roulette and that's it.

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Originally Posted by Xapapetsu

The game definitely doesn't cater to raiders, we get a single extreme every patch which can be cleared in a few hours, 4 savage fights every even patch, and if we're lucky 2 ultimates in the expansion. Casuals have housing, glamor, crafting, maps, RP, G-Posing, the gold saucer, standard dungeons, standard trials, standard raids, deep dungeons, field exploration, the story, and 90% of the time any new form of content is catered towards casuals or midcore, not raiders, chaotic was the one exception. I don't get where this raiders get all the content comes from, is it because its time gated and we're forced to do it weekly because I'd prefer if it wasn't.

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I mean, most of the content you listed as for casual players is more like for everyone. If the population of raiders is small, the population of people who only clear savage and ult then unsub is even smaller. I consider myself a "raider", and I actively participate in 11 things you mentioned for casuals (but even I feel like the game's content cadence is slow as shit).

Funny enough, with all the hubbub about difficulty on the forum lately, adding a third difficulty to trials and raids, and a second and third difficulty for dungeons would probably help the casual player base feel less ignored and the midcore raiders feel less bored. That way they could chase that ever elusive "around ex difficulty but slightly easier" that people seem to associate "midcore" with for the middle difficulty, while making an even easier "story" mode that would hopefully satisfy the gamers in that other thread.

Buuuut they basically admitted they don't have the time, money, or both to create an easier difficulty for a single solitary raid (Forked Tower). So I think we should all probably keep our expectations rock bottom where they belong.

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Originally Posted by BokoToloko

That's every middle of expansion map dungeon since Stormblood. Only difference with previous expansions is that this one uses slots and the previous used a roulette and that's it.

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ok you're right. it just seems so much more boring lol

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

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1) SE's potential ability to design houses properly would mean they wouldn't require players to keep renewing subscriptions to maintain their plots, or to bid on new ones. For this reason, they've chosen the current system and decided to stick with it. More on this in point 3.

2) Using the lack of changes in their architecture as an excuse is giving them more good faith than they deserve this expansion. My logical conclusion is that work is being avoided, and the money reinvested into the game hasn't matched the profits it generates. This is backed by the fact that EW/DT lasted 6 months longer than HW/SB, while FFXIV had exponentially more players.

If anything, the lack of changes only strengthens my point: if the goal is to retain players with the least possible effort, it's logical they wouldn't rewrite spaghetti code, just like the content released has been subpar. They've just released a patch full of obvious bugs, and reworking the architecture would be a huge task for a company that has openly admitted to a shortage of team leaders, and exposed sensitive data in the form of a new blacklist. They are likely more comfortable just designing yet another dungeon and new glamour. The flexibility inside this comfort zone is so low that I don't remember a recent dungeon with 2 or 4 bosses, or a different number of trash packs.

3) "Almost nothing SE does is for sub retention" >>> This simply cannot be true. It's a live service game in a capitalist market. The company has shareholders and publicly available financial reports. If the developers weren't designing most of their game with sub retention in mind, they'd be out of a job — that's how they get paid.

The problem? They set the bar extremely low for these expectations, and thus don't produce enough content. The remedy to that are the overused FOMO/lockout systems. This doesn't align with what most of the community expects from the game, as long-lasting content is still desired, rather than just playing short-lived content for a locked reward. They managed to keep their current approach for a while due to factors like the WoW exodus and Covid, but once the MSQ dropped in quality, it was like opening Pandora's box. Long-term issues became far more discussed.

4) I do agree they could make better use of the content they're already creating. Unfortunately, it took a sharp drop in profits for Yoshi-P to finally admit that recently. Before Dawntrail, they never expressed any intent to provide players with more options, and for most people, doing high-end content was the only reliable way to extend the lifespan of a patch.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

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Thing is, it's not just the housing that's archaic. To name a few, we have how Glamour Dresser can't be a housing item or the Armoire can't store Relic Weapons because of the custom secondary and a myriad other limitations that, many times, rather than be solved outright, they're given a workaround. And the reason behind it is actually simple: they didn't really think the game was going to last that long. Thus an architecture that worked fine on a short time but that quickly showed cracks with time and higher player counts.

Not that it's unheard of, either, since we have examples in other games. WoW team, for example, has hardly changed the default backpack. Why? Because the backpack itself is a core part of the inventory system, meaning it can't be moved or changed or it crashes the whole game.

Leaving the fact sub retention is not a profitable strategy in on itself to begin with aside (regardless of quality, the game will ALWAYS bleed subscriptions because even here the laws of entropy apply, entropy that is only staved with new subs), housing beign a chain and ball for people who really want to leave the game: what point is there in keeping a house in a game for someone who no longer intends to play the game? At the end of the day and regardless of the amount of effort put in, it's still a bunch of pixels that doesn't really justify the cost of the subscription by itself. Hell, it's not even good for keeping players subbed at all times, since you only need 2 months of subscriptions to keep the house for a patch cycle. And that's not to mention the periods frozen Auto-Demolition times due to notable incidents (as an example, last frozen auto-demolition timer period lasted more than half a year and it was set because of the floods in eastern Spain, which is far from housing the biggest percentage of players in EU)

Can't say SE makes the best decisions but, when it comes to FFXIV, most of their mistakes don't come from malice but from an obnoxious mixture of short-sightedness, obstination and awful coordination (the latests PLLs can attest to that). Could they redo the architecture? Maybe. However the costs wouldn't really be reimbursed (1.0 was and still is a very special case) and, at that point, they would eventually making a new game from scratch. And that's with the game still being profitable, despite the loss of subs (which was expected to happen since quite some time ago).

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Originally Posted by BokoToloko

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I mostly agree with your entire post. I just find it fair to say that there are a lot of people keeping their subs due to the housing system, which we can always tell by user reports on any FFXIV forum. Not everyone is looking to keep a house — some are just trying to get their first plot, others want an upgrade. It's hard to be a winner in a system where you will likely never own a large house. Or it could take so long, it's time for a new Final Fantasy MMO.

Now this number has been decreasing over time. No sub retention system is ever going to make up for a faulty game (that also applies to every lockout we have in FFXIV). In the end, SE being short-sighted about FFXIV is what has always hindered the game, and kept those systems stagnant. Still, to me, the original goal of the demolition system is clear.

The housing system is likely the only reason Dynamis isn't merged, as they have no means to fairy compensate or transfer the houses players/FCs have. It doesn't look like Dawntrail is getting a new housing district, even when Endwalker didn't either. We're painfully overdue. From everything I've seen, the interior expansions won't apply to apartments or FC rooms, making it totally useless to the insanely vast majority of players.

Tural has the space, and a tropical paradise styled district after the cold stone of Ishgard's district would be popular.

What I'm really waiting is an expansion that launches with content with good shelf life that is not High End.

The Field Operation came almost a year in. That's kind of wild to me that they can't think of a way to move at least one of their side features sooner, let it be the Field Operation, Deep Dungeon, Limited Job update, V&C dungeons...

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I know there's some people who want housing on whichever planet we end at for Cosmic Exploration, the same way the Firmament ended with houses in Ishgard, but this would mostly likely finish off Dynamis (as if Cosmic Exploration hadn't done enough damage already making some of our gatherers and crafters leave due to constant project failures) because the ONLY selling point here is the housing, and adding more housing to Aether/Primal/Crystal takes that away.

Even now just having Aether opened up for transfers and new houses opening due to auto-demolition across A/P/C has some Dynamis folks jumping ship while they can, where adding a whole new housing zone or even just wards to existing ones would speed up the revolving door out of here.

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I hadn't even considered the final planet having housing, but the MOON having the next district would make total sense.

One thing that I noticed that's unusual is, according to Lucky Bancho, that Japanese players are spread pretty evenly on all servers in their dedicated datacenters. This is very much NOT the case on the other regions, with a couple servers having upwards of double the amount of players as others in the same data center. So, it's actually worse here. You either pick a low pop server and suffer or an extremely high pop server and suffer elsewhere.

I think if we got two new housing districts plus apartments having the new options for expanded interiors, housing would cease to be an issue.




But anyway. Back to the main topic.

The devs mentioning that they intend to scrap the decade old content cadence regarding what things are released when will, I hope, help with this. But I do find it odd that it feels like the .5 has the good stuff.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

See that only works if you don't have a house, because square enix will hold it hostage and keep you subbed with it.
If they removed housing demolition and overhauled it like WoW's system is gonna work, that'd be nice

And you could say "why do you care about the house" Because it took years to get, and i still enjoy playing the game, but i would love to be able to unsub between patches.

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Well next time when presented with a scam, don't fall for it.

I am honestly glad that I am done with Forked Tower and can just unsub and wait for the Deep Dungeon. The Alliance Raid is certainly not going to keep me subbed and the upcoming botted, sorry, plugin'd* Cosmic even less.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Well next time when presented with a scam, don't fall for it.

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wow, you sure showed me. Square's "amazing" housing system is a scam
Really hope wow's housing system blows ff14's out of the water

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

wow, you sure showed me. Square's "amazing" housing system is a scam
Really hope wow's housing system blows ff14's out of the water

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I'm really rooting for WoW's housing system to be that successful, because might be the only thing that can encourage more substantial upgrades to XIV's housing system.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

wow, you sure showed me. Square's "amazing" housing system is a scam
Really hope wow's housing system blows ff14's out of the water

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Volgia would rather blame players for trying to get something nice than a company for gatekeeping its player base. Incredible mindset.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Well some people are busy learning then farming the new extreme trial or farming the new PvP series (and yes many casual players do this and a new map was released for it). I've been doing both. A lot of people also farm hunts around this time, and many others aren't completely finished with OC or Cosmic yet. For that reason, I'm sure it's out of consideration for the people who are doing the content that they released in 7.3.

I'd say they might be learning the Unreal trial but my experience with it so far is it's a 1-pull-to-clear. If you can do the normal version of Seiryu you'll probably get through Unreal.

I really don't think SE worry too much about subscriptions. If they did, it would definitely be a lot worse, because I remember WoW did it way worse to the point people fled to this game over it back in Shadowbringers. Also, if they were doing it for subs, it's not as if it's working for them considering the dropoff since Dawntrail release.

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Farming new pvp series can be done fairly easy since it lasts almost 2 patches or so. So just by doing daily frontlines (1 game) or even more slowly, you will reach full pvp series. New map is fun at start, but that's all that you get. Unreal couldn't have been easier.

SE doesn't worry about subscriptions because they know 2 things:

- Housing keeps good amount of people, including bots;
- ERP players are the ones to sub throughout the whole game.

Raiders and others will quit soon and re-sub when new patch comes. So they know that only 2 types of players keep this game more or less alive.

Even if they cared about sub, they wouldn't do anything about it because they follow their formula till the end. Least thing they can do is: "here, get 3 free days or return a friend".

From my point of view, the content amount is fine for me, but that is with a full-time job and other IRL activities keeping me occupied. I can see the view of it not being enough to do but not everyone can play the game as much as they want. SO what might not be enough for one person is plenty fine for another

I am once again reminding everyone that we the players asked for housing demolition, because we had entirely dead neighborhoods owned by FCs with no one left in them except the last person who unsubbed without leaving the FC first. (The 45 days was SE's mean decision. 90-120 days would have been a lot better.)

Anyway, I suspect Sharlayan is the next housing area actually. 1. The district is visible from Old Sharlayan already and 2. An NPC talks excitedly about how they are building her a house in that district.

Probably in 8.0.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I am once again reminding everyone that we the players asked for housing demolition, because we had entirely dead neighborhoods owned by FCs with no one left in them except the last person who unsubbed without leaving the FC first. (The 45 days was SE's mean decision. 90-120 days would have been a lot better.)

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But that's a problem due to not having enough houses for everyone. I can understand for dead FCs, but why must player owned house be destroyed? Wouldn't it be better if they just made enough houses for everyone (instanced housing) or at the very least save your house and your decorations exactly as they were and when you do return and buy a new plot you can just load the house save and have everything just as it was.