Forked Tower premade patch coming before 7.3

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Originally Posted by ovIm

You cannot compare PF to the FT entry method my guy. While I understand that you are angry, these two systems were designed completely differently.

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Great response. Suggest that I am experiencing anger and just waive any notion that players can choose to be courteous when faced with a glowing platform on that basis. This forum never ceases to deliver.

There's a reason that breakfast cereals with cartoon animals as their brand's mascot are marketed primarily to children.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Least there’s less likely to be that awkward moment where there’s like 48 people in Forked Tower…in an instance of 50/72 people lol. I think? I’ve had a couple times where everyone ended up doing FT and there was only like 3 people left doing fates etc lol.

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To be fair they are the best instances to farm CE’s because low number CE’s scale the best

And you get the support fate to top it off. The one good thing about forked support fate is it gives sanguinite unlike tristitia which didn’t give eureka fragments

Sounds like they can do things when people complain. Just make all the changes.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Casuals will have the privilege of zoning into an instance that was created exclusively for discord premade use due to fix no.5. Just in time to help them kill the support fate outside for a pittance of sanguinite.

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The developing meta is just to skip the puzzle that spawns and requires the support FATE, so unless SE makes it mandatory, you will get no sanguinite and you will be happy.

There is no thing as sniping, will try and queue in doing like 50 offerings when I see an opening first of all to see the instance and secondly, to learning how to do it the hard way and everyone should do it like that, it is the only way you can get the devs to do something about it all, it hinders progression otherwise and that is a fact.

Leave savage and ultimate gear, to actual savage and ultimate raids, this here need to be way more mainstream, tough is nice, but a few able to make sure it goes right as the final option.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The developing meta is just to skip the puzzle that spawns and requires the support FATE, so unless SE makes it mandatory, you will get no sanguinite and you will be happy.

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If they make only a single other change to forked after what they are adding tomorrow stopping this new stupid meta of intentionally skipping the support fate has got to be stopped.

The support fate exists specifically because robbing an instance of 48 players puts those left at a disadvantage, the support fate is compensation for that. It’s an integral part of BA and BA forces you to do it

Spending 2 hours in an intentionally hamstrung instance for the forked group to go “yeah nah we don’t need sanguinite so you don’t get any either” is just genuinely shockingly awful design and I say that as a BA host veteran who mostly supports the discords

Alright Square Enix I'll tell you how to fix Occult Crescent and get people to do Forked Tower, since you clearly don't know how to learn lessons from past content of this type.

1) remove the raise limit

2) remove thrice come ruin

3) remove de-leveling upon death

4) remove the super traps that kill more than just the person who steps on them

5) remove the Cipher system entirely

There. If you want unorganized players in the instance to do FT organically, which is clearly your intent, that's what you'll have to do.

Is the War on Discord over? Or are we in the "No Casual left Behind" era?

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

So as I thought. Basically, they are transforming it into pre-made only, discord only content and everyone else can sit and twist. Good to know. I am never entering OC again.

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I mean, if you cant even read and understand what's being discussed in this thread, how do you expect to pf up and use shout chat to coordinate 48 effectively.

You don't even do current extreme trials, this is way harder than that. Its not a wipe and pull again situation, its a wipe and try again in 60 minutes situation.

This is simply not content for casuals. Its content for people who are willing to try something hard and do the actual effort.

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

Alright Square Enix I'll tell you how to fix Occult Crescent and get people to do Forked Tower, since you clearly don't know how to learn lessons from past content of this type.

1) remove the raise limit

2) remove thrice come ruin

3) remove de-leveling upon death

4) remove the super traps that kill more than just the person who steps on them

5) remove the Cipher system entirely

There. If you want unorganized players in the instance to do FT organically, which is clearly your intent, that's what you'll have to do.

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Would also need to remove DPS checks because people cant press button, even in certain discord clear groups

Forked can’t be fixed by just removing its perceived friction points, it would have to be completely redesigned. Not saying that isn’t worth it but it’s full of way too much stuff that could affect a casual run you would have to redo it from the ground up to make it work

If they make a normal mode I would interact with it, but all this does is move FT even further into the realm of exclusive discord commmunities.

We need Discord to find 48 active players that are actually trying to do hard content.

With the huge dip in players, even the roulette would take over an hour.

Reading through a lot of the posts in this thread, there are a lot of disingenuous and facetious posts about "FT being hardcore content" and "Discord servers being toxic elitists that gate the community".

I am in over a dozen of these communities and there is minor overlap in between all of them, as people have a tendency to want to stick to one prog / reclear community, but are free to join other communities to prog and clear with them.
Out of all of these only 1 or 2 of them are only interested in clears / reclears, of which they only hold runs once a week or have dispersed into the other communities.

Almost all of the public communities that welcome new players of all skill levels. The difficulty of Forked Tower is that of "Extreme" difficulty, not even Savage, however does have the problem of Chaotic Alliance where one person with the mechanic going into the wrong place can wipe all 48 people, or some janky moments where a role doing the thing a specific time with certain variables will wipe all 48 people. Almost every single one of the communities hold both public fresh and proglocked runs to help new players into the content and assist players already invested in the content at their prog points. None of the communities gatekeep people out of the content and only request you join voice chat (no talking required) so you can hear callouts and instructions / explanations.

Frustration over "Sniping" has always been an issue that should be remedied by this hotfix, because you are removing the time and frustration required to get into the instance and engage with the content. People get to play the game as opposed to trying to play the game. The other thread where someone complained that they were intentionally killed by a tank buster after sniping has had the raid leader actually turn up in the thread and provide their statement on what actually happened (Player was lying and was intentionally being uncooperative and refusing to communicate even though members of the community tried on multiple occasions to reach out to them). Getting wiped by the sniper who joins and doesn't know what they're doing is always a risk, and it is not the responsibility or the 47 other players to rez you if you are a liability who refuses to communicate.

Just because there are many of you in an MMO who are anti-social and difficult people who are professional victims does not mean that these communities are gatekeeping or being elitist about it - in fact the complete opposite. I've seen players who struggle with MSQ / normal raids take part in the runs, yes they're on the floor a lot, but in no way are they unwelcome from runs that correlate with their prog point. If anything almost every single FT community is not gatekeeping, but throwing the gates wide open and providing an avenue in which anyone can engage with it - you just simply have to ask, and you will be invited in.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

The methods of access that were being abused by antisocial, discourteous, selfish players being closed up is the devs fixing oversights. It's not a sudden shift in their direction or intention.

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The entry mechanic has the option to trade more ciphers to improve your odds of getting in. The "discourteous, selfish" players are the only ones engaging with it as it was originally designed and intended. What other use could it possibly serve? If the developers had originally intended for the 'pre-made only' situation that the content is in then they likely would not have included the ability to sneak up to the pavilion and drop a fat load of ciphers to snipe a spot. This update is them acknowledging that their design didn't fit the content, and changing it.

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Originally Posted by Yoshihara

Reading through a lot of the posts in this thread, there are a lot of disingenuous and facetious posts about "FT being hardcore content" and "Discord servers being toxic elitists that gate the community".

If anything almost every single FT community is not gatekeeping, but throwing the gates wide open and providing an avenue in which anyone can engage with it - you just simply have to ask, and you will be invited in.

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I've found communities arent toxic sure, but they are gates. Everyone ive joined before was bot run mostly, so wanna join as a light party or more of friends? good luck. That works for cll/del/dali but not here. This fix sorta sorta stops that, but if it obviously needs call outs where a macro/s.e. are insufficient- its Hardcore content.
Everyone is bending over backward defending FT, which has entry/design this entire game was built around removing (that being you are supposed to have trouble communicating with the randoms to barely clear 2 fights when it pops, you are supposed to wipe for months, its baked in for content longevity). It makes no sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Xerkrosis

Funny how that's something they can implement before a regular patch.

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Well yeah, it's an issue that affects raiders. Naturally they will burn the midnight oil and fix it as quickly as possible.
Meanwhile, in the actual overworld that everyone uses, chests still have questionable loot values, the whole carrot situation is basically a pipe dream unless you have a billion gil to just buy the carrots outright, RNG on job soulstones continues to screw unlucky people over, gold farming is still totally divorced from the way most people experience occult crescent (WHY isn't a small amount of gold given from CEs?), etc. etc. etc. and none of that is changed in a rapid maintenance. We get to wait months. Maybe even years. Maybe even forever.
But oh! The raiders can't conveniently enter FT? Issue a full blown apology! Shut the whole game down! Fix it now!

edit: Don't get me wrong. I'm glad they're doing something about it. But OC in general is full of issues that make it a terrible slog. Now look at the only one they've bothered to address and fix quickly.

Oh, so you CAN update your game whenever you choose, SE. You can just drop the update without having to make it a "patch feature". It's amazing what this newfangled "downloading" can do. Sorry, but they get no credit from me.

First, because they had to have their metaphorical arm twisted so hard it popped out of joint by the JP community literally boycotting FT and refusing to run it.

Second, because why are they having to relearn something they already learned? That's literally one of my biggest pet peeves in the world... when people have already learned a lesson and yet continue to make the same mistake. They already fixed this in Bozja, why did this happen AGAIN?!

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

Alright Square Enix I'll tell you how to fix Occult Crescent and get people to do Forked Tower, since you clearly don't know how to learn lessons from past content of this type.

1) remove the raise limit

2) remove thrice come ruin

3) remove de-leveling upon death

4) remove the super traps that kill more than just the person who steps on them

5) remove the Cipher system entirely

There. If you want unorganized players in the instance to do FT organically, which is clearly your intent, that's what you'll have to do.

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Normal DR had Twice-come Ruin, so it's something that pugs can overcome if there isn't a set of raise restrictions and copious body checks. The rest I agree with.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Normal DR had Twice-come Ruin, so it's something that pugs can overcome if there isn't a set of raise restrictions and copious body checks. The rest I agree with.

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The cipher system would also be fine for a Normal mode… not much different than signing up for CLL or Dalriada in-zone for Bozja. When not attached to the hard mode version, it’s nice and immersive! I’d make it just one cipher per person, first-come, first-serve though. The cipher lottery makes no sense whatsoever for either mode.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

The entry mechanic has the option to trade more ciphers to improve your odds of getting in. The "discourteous, selfish" players are the only ones engaging with it as it was originally designed and intended. What other use could it possibly serve? If the developers had originally intended for the 'pre-made only' situation that the content is in then they likely would not have included the ability to sneak up to the pavilion and drop a fat load of ciphers to snipe a spot. This update is them acknowledging that their design didn't fit the content, and changing it.

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The content clearly has an identity crisis, as it also has a means for those progressing far into the Forked Tower to spawn a mob for others to get sanguinite - allowing people to fully gear without setting foot in the tower. That you choose to weaponise an extremely antisocial disruptive act as the intended design decision and ignore the social design decisions says a lot more about you than it does about the content.

I lament that organised runs will soon not be able to help other players get sanguinite because of people that share your attitude and outlook.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

I mean, if you cant even read and understand what's being discussed in this thread, how do you expect to pf up and use shout chat to coordinate 48 effectively.

You don't even do current extreme trials, this is way harder than that. Its not a wipe and pull again situation, its a wipe and try again in 60 minutes situation.

This is simply not content for casuals. Its content for people who are willing to try something hard and do the actual effort.

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I'd agree this is precisely what is wrong with it.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

The content clearly has an identity crisis, as it also has a means for those progressing far into the Forked Tower to spawn a mob for others to get sanguinite - allowing people to fully gear without setting foot in the tower. That you choose to weaponise an extremely antisocial disruptive act as the intended design decision and ignore the social design decisions says a lot more about you than it does about the content.

I lament that organised runs will soon not be able to help other players get sanguinite because of people that share your attitude and outlook.

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From what people in this thread and others have said, they're not helping others get that because they can skip the puzzle and not spawn that mob and that's become the new meta.

In regards to the OP, I've been curious since they announced it whether this would mean that each group would spawn a new instance or they would find 48 spots in an already-occupied instance. And with point 5 that comes later, I'm curious how long that timer is and if they will allow others into the instance after the timer is up. We'll probably still see a lot of the issues we currently see unless they found a way to limit the instances to just the premade. Which really would be a backend type of queue system as another poster pointed out.

Also, as someone who works in software development and goes through this myself, I think this is less they can always make emergency fixes whenever they want and someone high enough up told them get this fixed now or else no matter what that may mean for current projects. Hopefully he's right that this won't affect anything for 7.3.

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Originally Posted by Yoshihara

SNIP

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Again, if content is designed where it needs guides, callouts and you must be in discord to clear - it shouldn't exist. No content should be added or designed that is unable to be completed in-game with the system's in-game. Period.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

I mean, if you cant even read and understand what's being discussed in this thread, how do you expect to pf up and use shout chat to coordinate 48 effectively.

You don't even do current extreme trials, this is way harder than that. Its not a wipe and pull again situation, its a wipe and try again in 60 minutes situation.

This is simply not content for casuals. Its content for people who are willing to try something hard and do the actual effort.

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Oooo, look at you thinking you're going to get all snippy with me. I ain't the one, honey.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Again, if content is designed where it needs guides, callouts and you must be in discord to clear - it shouldn't exist. No content should be added or designed that is unable to be completed in-game with the system's in-game. Period.

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I have no words other than I am glad I never have to interact with someone in game with this attitude ever.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

I mean, if you cant even read and understand what's being discussed in this thread, how do you expect to pf up and use shout chat to coordinate 48 effectively.

You don't even do current extreme trials, this is way harder than that. Its not a wipe and pull again situation, its a wipe and try again in 60 minutes situation.

This is simply not content for casuals. Its content for people who are willing to try something hard and do the actual effort.

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FT isn't hard.. my reclears are full of casuals. You're out of touch.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

From what people in this thread and others have said, they're not helping others get that because they can skip the puzzle and not spawn that mob and that's become the new meta.

In regards to the OP, I've been curious since they announced it whether this would mean that each group would spawn a new instance or they would find 48 spots in an already-occupied instance. And with point 5 that comes later, I'm curious how long that timer is and if they will allow others into the instance after the timer is up. We'll probably still see a lot of the issues we currently see unless they found a way to limit the instances to just the premade. Which really would be a backend type of queue system as another poster pointed out.

Also, as someone who works in software development and goes through this myself, I think this is less they can always make emergency fixes whenever they want and someone high enough up told them get this fixed now or else no matter what that may mean for current projects. Hopefully he's right that this won't affect anything for 7.3.

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Then they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Spawning the mob and the mob being killed before the group clears boss 4 gives both people (tower and non-tower) extra sanguinite. There is literal symbiosis and co-operation built into the content that encourages people to be social. In every run I've attended we have done the mob spawn for people outside of tower.

This social aspect will be lost with private instances - and if gear for the next zone requires sanguinite upgraded gear as components for further gear upgrades, the only way you're going to get that sanguinite is by joining organised runs. At the very least, those will become easier to join due to a PF and private instance.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I'd agree this is precisely what is wrong with it.

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Oh I totally agree, this just dumb.

The existence of the 100 clears achievement alone suggest whoever greenlighted this didn't have a broad view of the situation.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

Then they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Spawning the mob and the mob being killed before the group clears boss 4 gives both people (tower and non-tower) extra sanguinite. There is literal symbiosis and co-operation built into the content that encourages people to be social. In every run I've attended we have done the mob spawn for people outside of tower.

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You are welcome to go into all the Forked Tower threads with people actively running it in Discords where they are mentioning this and argue that with them. Like Snow, he's been incredibly knowledgeable in these threads. This is from the normal mode thread.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Especially since the support fate spawns right before the final boss so not every forked instance reaches it and since it needs to solve the puzzle to spawn it’s actually time optimal to skip it which is a new meta I’m seeing forming the last few days

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Originally Posted by Bryson

FT isn't hard.. my reclears are full of casuals. You're out of touch.

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Its not as hard as it is inconvenient and punishing.

I doubt your casuals makes zero effort to learn the content before stepping in your run, therefore not casuals and the average people usually don't have the luxury of having 99 percentile peoples helping them clear stuff.

But my hat's off to you for helping out the community.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

Its not as hard as it is inconvenient and punishing.

I doubt your casuals makes zero effort to learn the content before stepping in your run, therefore not casuals and the average people usually don't have the luxury of having 99 percentile peoples helping them clear stuff.

But my hat's off to you for helping out the community.

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casuals is just a wide poool. Not every casual is lazy and entitled.

also what does percentiles have to do with FT lol? the dps checks are basically non existent. FT is at best, extreme difficulty. .the only obnoxious part was getting all 6 parties in the same instance.

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Originally Posted by Bryson

casuals is just a wide poool. Not every casual is lazy and entitled.

also what does percentiles have to do with FT lol? the dps checks are basically non existent. FT is at best, extreme difficulty. .the only obnoxious part was getting all 6 parties in the same instance.

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I mean... I see some scary DPS fluctuations in Dead stars snowballs/towers all the time, it can get scary real fast when too many people dies or only have 2-3 phantom jobs mastered, which is what getting to knowledge 20 will usually get you.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

I mean... I see some scary DPS fluctuations in Dead stars snowballs/towers all the time, it can get scary real fast when too many people dies or only have 2-3 phantom jobs mastered, which is what getting to knowledge 20 will usually get you.

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better prep a chemist :)

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Well I do endgame and I'm against using Discord as well because I don't feel like we really need it so it should be treated like an optional tool and when content is designed to push people toward it exclusively that's bad design. It will remain to be seen after this update if we start to see PF groups for OC or if it will remain mostly organized in Discords.

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When I say do endgame, I mean clear savage and ultimates. People vehemently against discord even being an option, typically engage in neither of those (by engage I mean clear them, not just queue up).

0% of those supposed pf groups will clear if they don't use discord. Anyone thinking otherwise, hasn't cleared FT. It will 100% remain mostly organized in discords, which is fine, because discord isn't a big deal in 2025.

If their disdain for discord trumps clearing FT, so be it. Weird hill to die on imo.

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Originally Posted by Bryson

When I say do endgame, I mean clear savage and ultimates. People vehemently against discord even being an option, typically engage in neither of those (by engage I mean clear them, not just queue up).

0% of those supposed pf groups will clear if they don't use discord. Anyone thinking otherwise, hasn't cleared FT. It will 100% remain mostly organized in discords, which is fine, because discord isn't a big deal in 2025.

If their disdain for discord trumps clearing FT, so be it. Weird hill to die on imo.

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This is my main character. You can look me up on Tomestone or that other forbidden site. I clear Savage, my friend.

And from what I'm hearing and why this fix has been so urgent, JP doesn't really use Discord and has been just avoiding FT because of it. So your second statement will be interesting to see what happens there when they don't have nearly the same Discord dependency that other regions have. They do rely on macros but NA and EU are also perfectly able to utlize macros and raidplans and sites like wtfdig.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

This is my main character. You can look me up on Tomestone or that other forbidden site. I clear Savage, my friend.

And from what I'm hearing and why this fix has been so urgent, JP doesn't really use Discord and has been just avoiding FT because of it. So your second statement will be interesting to see what happens there when they don't have nearly the same Discord dependency that other regions have. They do rely on macros but NA and EU are also perfectly able to utlize macros and raidplans and sites like wtfdig.

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sorry when I say you, I don't mean you specifically.

yeah i'm speaking strictly with regards to NA. JP could macro FT into oblivion and just assign everything. Thing is, having played on JP as well when I lived there, not pulling your weight is frowned upon. The NA "you don't pay my sub" attitude wouldn't fly there.

I don't see pf clearing FT outside of discord becoming a norm on NA. There's just too much little things inside FT that discord helps with. Maybe if NA's attitudes wasn't "I can't be bothered to study up on mechs before hand" I'd feel differently.

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Originally Posted by Bryson

I don't see pf clearing FT outside of discord becoming a norm on NA. There's just too much little things inside FT that discord helps with. Maybe if NA's attitudes wasn't "I can't be bothered to study up on mechs before hand" I'd feel differently.

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Plenty of people in Savage PF do that, though. You have some that just kinda want a carry and you can identify those pretty easily since they don't have a clue what to do up to the PF's prog point but most I run into outside of blind runs have watched the videos or looked at raidplans and do have a general understanding of what's expected. So I'm not entirely convinced that we wouldn't be able to do this in PF similarly to how we did Chaotic. I'm going to be watching to see if public PFs pop up and if we get sites with raidplans and such.

It's not a perfect solution and this really needed a normal mode that was more accessible to the general playerbase, though. Even if we can PF it, it's still going to be content out of the reach of players who have been looking forward the most to it and getting the least this expansion.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Plenty of people in Savage PF do that, though. You have some that just kinda want a carry and you can identify those pretty easily since they don't have a clue what to do up to the PF's prog point but most I run into outside of blind runs have watched the videos or looked at raidplans and do have a general understanding of what's expected. So I'm not entirely convinced that we wouldn't be able to do this in PF similarly to how we did Chaotic. I'm going to be watching to see if public PFs pop up and if we get sites with raidplans and such.

It's not a perfect solution and this really needed a normal mode that was more accessible to the general playerbase, though. Even if we can PF it, it's still going to be content out of the reach of players who have been looking forward the most to it and getting the least this expansion.

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This 48 peoples in a query system that takes about 30 minutes just to set up. This aint pf where you can simply kick and replace someone whos trying to get carried and get back in instance. It should tho.

Asking people to pull up with this is too much.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Plenty of people in Savage PF do that, though. You have some that just kinda want a carry and you can identify those pretty easily since they don't have a clue what to do up to the PF's prog point but most I run into outside of blind runs have watched the videos or looked at raidplans and do have a general understanding of what's expected. So I'm not entirely convinced that we wouldn't be able to do this in PF similarly to how we did Chaotic. I'm going to be watching to see if public PFs pop up and if we get sites with raidplans and such.

It's not a perfect solution and this really needed a normal mode that was more accessible to the general playerbase, though. Even if we can PF it, it's still going to be content out of the reach of players who have been looking forward the most to it and getting the least this expansion.

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savage is 8 people. ft is 48. it's hard to explain if you haven't done FT, but too much things can go wrong inside (not even necessarily the bosses themselves) that imo, all but guarantee, pf will not clear outside of discord (assuming the group isn't full of people who've cleared already).