Content Creators and Youtube

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

You (general you) can be a gold barser and still have no idea what you're talking about. Funny how certain discussion seem to have a high odds in drawing out certain "small d!*k (measuring)"-mentality on board.

On the topic though, I never not liked Lucy Pyre's FFXIV videos. Right amount of sass and cringe on her titles. Her sense of humor resonates with mine.

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It's a pity her vtuber voice resonates around 2093Hz.

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Originally Posted by gw1fan

Many times, as seen below for just a sample:

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Originally Posted by gw1fan

Yup. I remember it all.

I remember when OG Diadem was nuked into the abyss from feedback to get Eureka and how Eureka was panned into obscurity to get Bozja and so on. I remember when players complained about how ARR was too long so they cut out a bunch of side stuff. I remember when people complained about job buff/debuff synergies. I remember when people complained about TP and aggro. I remember when people complained about cross class skills.

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It's remarkable you don't see the problem in your very post.

Hm? Problem? The game has always had problems, and people have always pointed them out. That's the point of my post here. I'm open to hear your elaboration should you like to have a conversation about it.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Probably Rinon. A dude who has been raiding/ doing high-end since ARR, did guides, did every content under the sun, and he says healers are boring him now. I mean, the f he expects. He is one of the very few who reached the apex. Of course, everything seems easy and boring.

Another one recently was Lucy Pyre. Unbearable, unfunny, low-effort constant ranting, but then again, it's what she usually does. When I hear her talk I wonder if my kettle finished boiling or something.

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I thought almost every semi competent healer was upset with the state of healing. Don't we have some thousand pages on the subject here?

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Originally Posted by Basteala

I thought almost every semi competent healer was upset with the state of healing. Don't we have some thousand pages on the subject here?

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I mean, listen, if you want ultimate level of healing in casual/trash content, I am all for it.

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Originally Posted by gw1fan

Hm? Problem? The game has always had problems, and people have always pointed them out. That's the point of my post here. I'm open to hear your elaboration should you like to have a conversation about it.

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I think the issue with it that they are eluding to is that their idea of addressing feedback is to:
1. Nuke the content out of the game (Diadem)
2. Plunge the content into obscurity to where it has very little measurable impact on the content loop (e.g., Grand Company updates)
3. Cut a bunch of the side stuff (Concealed nodes, Diadem, general depth from crafting)

They rarely actually examine the issues and the reasons why people take issues.. Their entire feedback mechanism is built on... See issue? Remove the associated content or render it to obscurity, rather than thinking why, and how they can actually improve on the content and address those issues.. Take Coven weapons for example from the Diadem EM... They had vast negative feedback, but instead of thinking "Maybe the issue is that we incorporated layered RNG", e.g., random weapon on top of random stats... They go... "No we need to remove this", and since this very time over 8 years ago they have been deathly afraid of doing even a minutiae of change in their rigid gearing structure, and this has only spread to every facet of the game.

Same exact story with the relic system going from ShB -> EW... The ShB relic wasn't immune to issues, it had very glaring issues... But their solution? Nuke it, not improve it. Hence why we had a glorified tomestone farm, which in no way shape or form transformed the core content loop.. It was simply do roulettes or do hunts (Which people were doing anyway courtesy of the weekly capped currency)

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Same exact story with the relic system going from ShB -> EW... The ShB relic wasn't immune to issues, it had very glaring issues... But their solution? Nuke it, not improve it. Hence why we had a glorified tomestone farm, which in no way shape or form transformed the core content loop.. It was simply do roulettes or do hunts (Which people were doing anyway courtesy of the weekly capped currency)

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EW's relic wasn't "a solution" to the problems of ShB relic. It was the solution to the problem of production scaling back & shifting roadmap due to the pandemic.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

They rarely actually examine the issues and the reasons why people take issues.. Their entire feedback mechanism is built on... See issue? Remove the associated content or render it to obscurity, rather than thinking why, and how they can actually improve on the content and address those issues.. Take Coven weapons for example from the Diadem EM... They had vast negative feedback, but instead of thinking "Maybe the issue is that we incorporated layered RNG", e.g., random weapon on top of random stats... They go... "No we need to remove this", and since this very time over 8 years ago they have been deathly afraid of doing even a minutiae of change in their rigid gearing structure, and this has only spread to every facet of the game.

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I thought it was something like this, which I and many others agree was a bad direction to take (though the severity of the problem is up for debate). However, we have heard Yoshida directly address this issue in recent interviews and panels, so right now, I, for one, am in a "wait and see" mode. Whatever comes next is out of our hands until we actually get it in our hands to provide feedback on it.

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Originally Posted by Basteala

I thought almost every semi competent healer was upset with the state of healing. Don't we have some thousand pages on the subject here?

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To be fair, I think some of the posters have about 200 pages each to themselves out of that 1000 lol.

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Originally Posted by gw1fan

I thought it was something like this, which I and many others agree was a bad direction to take (though the severity of the problem is up for debate). However, we have heard Yoshida directly address this issue in recent interviews and panels, so right now, I, for one, am in a "wait and see" mode. Whatever comes next is out of our hands until we actually get it in our hands to provide feedback on it.

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It's honestly less the severity of a given single problem, and mostly just a combination of problems which end up feeding into each other and then going into a full ripple... e.g., removal of systems in HW-era was a lot less severe because the game had depth, whether that was down to jank, or actual dept, of course can be up for debate, but generally it lent itself to people being able to engage more substantively.. Like if I didn't like raiding, then that was OK... What you could do in terms of crafting more than rivalled it, same with relics and the sort.

I am sadly a lot more pessimistic.. I think the damage is done, and I think even if they did or could do all these nice things again,.. I think ultimately they will just get undermined by the absence of that fundamental depth.. Like, take expert recipes for example... These were meant to appease the RNG/difficulty-based enjoys, and I am one of those folk... But without that actual class depth (crafting abilities), it just feels like an empty or very much incomplete experience, and with how they have approached changes like BLM... It just tells me that, that specific principle is still going to persist, even if they try and introduce that stress or difficulty once more.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

EW's relic wasn't "a solution" to the problems of ShB relic. It was the solution to the problem of production scaling back & shifting roadmap due to the pandemic.

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It wasn't due to Covid nor was it due to them "being lazy".

It was for the simple reason that there is a split in the playerbase, where half want to work hard for their relics, and half want to be done with them asap. And within the ones who want to work for them, some of them want to do new content and some of them want to farm old content like Crystal Tower.

So the solution they came up with was: let players decide what content they do for it, by making it all tomestones, since everything drops tomestones. The issue with that approach was that it meant you got the weapon through your normal activities such as hunt trains or Expert Roulette, effectively reducing the overall amount of content being done that expansion, and making it feel like it's just handed to you.

They were also trying to solve the problem in ShB of people wanting to do all relics for all jobs despite the ever-growing number of jobs. It all makes sense, but overall, it obviously didn't feel like a prestigious weapon at all getting it that way.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It wasn't due to Covid nor was it due to them "being lazy".

It was for the simple reason that there is a split in the playerbase, where half want to work hard for their relics, and half want to be done with them asap. And within the ones who want to work for them, some of them want to do new content and some of them want to farm old content like Crystal Tower.

So the solution they came up with was: let players decide what content they do for it, by making it all tomestones, since everything drops tomestones. The issue with that approach was that it meant you got the weapon through your normal activities such as hunt trains or Expert Roulette, effectively reducing the overall amount of content being done that expansion, and making it feel like it's just handed to you.

They were also trying to solve the problem in ShB of people wanting to do all relics for all jobs despite the ever-growing number of jobs. It all makes sense, but overall, it obviously didn't feel like a prestigious weapon at all getting it that way.

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Personally as someone who does not enjoy Hildebrand or find those quests funny, it was a slog / grind to even get all that chain done for them. After that though they really just felt like generic tomestone weapons. There are a few glams I like from the set but I actually deleted all of my EW relics because I was left with no sentimental value for any of them.

Normally I keep my Relics on a retainer as mementos, but these just ended up feeling like any other Tomestone weapon I would sell/discard after I outlevelled it.

As an aside, I hope Hildebrand is not a requirement in the future. I already stopped doing the 7.0 version of them.

Considering relic became BiS for the last tier of EW, it was perfectly fine for me. Still some grind involved, but nothing crazy.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It wasn't due to Covid nor was it due to them "being lazy".

It was for the simple reason that there is a split in the playerbase, where half want to work hard for their relics, and half want to be done with them asap. And within the ones who want to work for them, some of them want to do new content and some of them want to farm old content like Crystal Tower.

So the solution they came up with was: let players decide what content they do for it, by making it all tomestones, since everything drops tomestones. The issue with that approach was that it meant you got the weapon through your normal activities such as hunt trains or Expert Roulette, effectively reducing the overall amount of content being done that expansion, and making it feel like it's just handed to you.

They were also trying to solve the problem in ShB of people wanting to do all relics for all jobs despite the ever-growing number of jobs. It all makes sense, but overall, it obviously didn't feel like a prestigious weapon at all getting it that way.

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The approach in SB and ShB really weren’t ideal. Eureka was pretty dead a year after it released and Bozja might have improve the “soloing” abit still become “dead”.

Tomestone seem a reasonable approach, it is still not quick grind, and have to go through a series of quest, and it does not become hard to obtain because of dead content.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

The approach in SB and ShB really weren’t ideal. Eureka was pretty dead a year after it released and Bozja might have improve the “soloing” abit still become “dead”.

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Eureka still isn't dead because newer players are often talking about it being a thing they are doing. The Bozja method got harder but overall, it's possible to do the CE raids wth a small number of people and they made alternatives like Deep Dungeons, dungeon, FATE and raid farming.

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Tomestone seem a reasonable approach, it is still not quick grind, and have to go through a series of quest

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Maybe it's not quick for you, but many of us had a different experience where we got handed our relics for no additional work because we obtained the necessary tomestones through our normal activities that we were doing regardless. The series of quests was a few seconds, once Hilidibrand was complete, which a lot of people had kept up to date with already.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Eureka still isn't dead because newer players are often talking about it being a thing they are doing. The Bozja method got harder but overall, it's possible to do the CE raids wth a small number of people and they made alternatives like Deep Dungeons, dungeon, FATE and raid farming.
Maybe it's not quick for you, but many of us had a different experience where we got handed our relics for no additional work because we obtained the necessary tomestones through our normal activities that we were doing regardless. The series of quests was a few seconds, once Hilidibrand was complete, which a lot of people had kept up to date with already.

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I have no idea which server you are in, but it was pretty dead in Cerberus/Chaos since the end of SB. There are still small number of players, but a PF take forever to fill up for both Eureka and Bozja even in the afternoon on weekends

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Maybe it's not quick for you, but many of us had a different experience where we got handed our relics for no additional work because we obtained the necessary tomestones through our normal activities that we were doing regardless. The series of quests was a few seconds, once Hilidibrand was complete, which a lot of people had kept up to date with already.

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I couldn’t edit my post on mobile version, I have to quote in another post. Out of Eureka and Bozja I definitely prefer Bozja over Eureka, it give players who are late to content more choice and chance to get through the content and chance of getting relic in Bozja approach.

What if SE use some mix approach like ARR/HW. FATE/ raid grind for the relic of that “current expansion” but drop to tomestone once new expansion come. This keep the relic feel more “have to work for it” for the present expansion but help those want to make relic for every job and late return players. I believe this could keep everyone happy

Look. If they want a tomestone 2.0. that’s fine. Just don’t bring Relic weapon down to that garbo level. Even post expansions Zodiac Zeta & Anima was much better than a mere ‘tome grind’ no matter how you try to frame it. I find it baffling that we went from those to something that you can literally get your weapon after the patch was live in less than an hour because you have 2000 uncapped tome prior to its introduction for every single steps.

Also Eureka & Bozja are still active in Aether DC. Active enough to finish relics, that is. If you try to compare everything to the content at the time of its inception patch then everything else just pales in comparison.

As an aside, it truly speaks volume (disappointingly) when Yoshi-P himself mentioned how he thinks players don’t like to engage in contents unless they’re given the rewards quickly.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It wasn't due to Covid nor was it due to them "being lazy".

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I call it bullsh*t that it isn't them being lazy. Maybe at best it's "low effort". EW patches are full of that. Even msq is combined with trial story.

They could've make it special currency that drops from EW content mostly; FATES, trials, raids etc.
While non-EW content give, perhaps, 1/3 of currency.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

I have no idea which server you are in

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I mean in the NA region generally. I predicted that, since old relics were a "popular endgame for casual players" since before SB, that Eureka would actually grow back somewhat and every time I went in it since, especially during patch lulls, I would see a good amount of other players there.

This was helped by newer players becoming interested in it, the free trial going to Stormblood and BA still being done, which particularly makes Hydatos feel more active than it normally would. I've sometimes had linkshell callouts for rare Eureka NMs in different regions of Eureka as well over the years.

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more choice and chance to get through the content and chance of getting relic in Bozja approach.

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I'd rather solo the Eureka relic than the Bozja relic. Because then I don't have to do DR lots and suffer RNG in deep dungeons. Eureka relic is literally just farming NMs for crystals and light.

There are many things you can buy to enhance your Eureka power and solo NMs (7 element wheel slots, haste gear, body with elemental stat, Elemental buff, food).

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What if SE use some mix approach like ARR/HW. FATE/ raid grind for the relic of that “current expansion” but drop to tomestone once new expansion come. This keep the relic feel more “have to work for it” for the present expansion but help those want to make relic for every job and late return players. I believe this could keep everyone happy

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The main issue is that I like new content. The problem in HW was that it was not new content. So they had the very clever idea of getting a failed content type (Diadem) and merging the concept with something that needed a content (relics).

I believe the ShB approach of having both as an option was the best way to balance it for both sides - those who want new content vs those who want to farm yet more Crystal Tower. I believe this is their plan. They just need the new content to be the more efficient way to do it this time.

Endwalker was the only time I ever had a relic in my hands. Simple reason is that I tried the field operations once, it wasn't fun, so I left and never returned.
But as someone already said, EW relics had nothing special about them, they were the same stat sticks as any other weapon in the game - just with upgrades.
Maybe a compromise would be to make the first 2 weapon levels easily farmable through tomestones, then tie the later weapon stages to another field operation, 50.000 FATEs, or whatever.
Maybe this way even a scrub like me would take another look at the content required for the later stages ;)

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Originally Posted by gw1fan

I, for one, am in a "wait and see" mode

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Game has been in a wait and see mode for half a decade