there was one? o.O. Next time I go prog ultimates in crafted gear, not even upgraded. My vilan arc is starting now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCheez
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03-23-2025, 04:44 AMKohashi
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03-23-2025, 04:47 AMBigCheezThe overwhelming majority of the playerbase doesn't enter ultimate until BiS is no longer required nor current savage gear. FRU being the exception because it was undertuned as hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kohashi
"A sense of pride and accomplishment" is literally a meme used to describe something that isn't worth the effort.
Gear should not allow you to skip mechanics on release. Content is DOA at that point.
The idea that people should farm BiS for glam is legitimately unhinged. -
03-23-2025, 05:45 AMNero-Voidstails
a other thing that could be done is having a item that could upgrade old gears into current bis gear but with the same stats but stronger. to match the current expension. could work for relics to and crafted could be a thing I don't know but sometime just doing a reset on every twoajor patch kinda suck
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03-23-2025, 02:46 PMshigaisen
It is anecdotal, but I have personally seen unreal parties ilvl locking above the max synced ilvl. It's purely a community issue, nothing SE can do to stop people from asking for full Savage and augmented equipment regardless of sync.
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03-23-2025, 02:53 PMshigaisenExtremes only really need a guide because people want to minimize strat variations, especially on PF. Majority of mechanics are straightforward with the problem they present in Extremes. Besides, guides are community driven. Other people took the time to thoroughly learn the fight and make braindead strats so you don't have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFJerrySo
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03-23-2025, 03:23 PMNOODS
Different game but I found PSO2's emergency quests to be what I'd imagine midcore content to be like. Anyone can hop in without exactly needing a guide just to play or not get destroyed by a PF group so long as your "ilvl" was sufficient, secondly it doesn't actually NEED a PF group to start since it was a global event that everyone could join, the quests varied from base defense, multi-stage boss battles across different stages, and the equivalent to CLL/Dalraida, It had a large instance player count, a single death doesn't wipe the entire instance, it provided a challenge that required you to not snooze while tapping 1-2-3, and the rewards were plentiful and stayed relevant forever since you could trade them in for tokens to purchase current content items or misc items that opened up other player features.
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03-23-2025, 06:07 PMKohashiQuote:
Originally Posted by BigCheez
You must not have heard that glam is the real ultimate end-game.Quote:
The idea that people should farm BiS for glam is legitimately unhinged.
Then NOTHING that you do in life is worth the effort. You will die anyway, why even bother?Quote:
"A sense of pride and accomplishment" is literally a meme used to describe something that isn't worth the effort.
You cannot skip mechanics on release, because on release aka week 1, you are in min ilvl.Quote:
Gear should not allow you to skip mechanics on release. Content is DOA at that point.
what part of it was undertuned? Do you really think that you can go in FRU with anything but BiS and clear it? Hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you cleared FRU with anything but BiS? have even tried to? Don't talk out of your ass please. FRU is forgiving in the sense that if you make a mistake it will slap you with a -90% damage down, but the mechanics there do a LOT of damage + you do need to also do good damage or you enrage.Quote:
FRU being the exception because it was undertuned as hell.
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03-23-2025, 06:52 PMNero-Voidstailseureka and Bozja are not casual not gonna lie with you well now they are due to how the echo destroyed the balance in itself but without balance casual player struggled heavily in those. but me don't think savage is midcore no matter what and v&c are strange because they are casual but the criterion is not x)Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCheez
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03-23-2025, 07:05 PMYukioKobayashiSo only if something is braindead easy it can be considered casual?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails
I really doubt that the WHM spamming Cure1 in all Bozjian Critical Engagements is doing midcore content.
DRS and duells on the other hand can maybe considered midcore. Which is also something completely optional. -
03-23-2025, 07:05 PMVolgia
"Midcore" is kind of a buzzword at this point to mean whatever you want, Savages used to be really hardcore but ever since Endwalker I can only point to certain fights as hardcore. The first tier in Arcadeon was really midcore by my standards, compared to E4S, P3S and P4S.
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03-23-2025, 07:14 PMTakumiHaradaAre you not reading my posts on purpose? Part 3Quote:
Originally Posted by brinn12
Please, I am so sorry to be rude but again, please do learn to read before posting on the internet. Your assumptions are completely wrong and it makes you look idiotic.
If you don't want to read all the posts because they're too long, then maybe don't reply. Don't bother.
You keep emphasising on BiS. I have already mentioned that, my point is that not everything should be gated at Savage ILvl on release (You still don't seem to understand the point here no matter how many times I emphasise this).Quote:
No. If the ILvl was synced at 700, people will not make parties forced at 730, because 730 gear would be pointless.
In fact the best gear will become the Neo Kingdom gear with materia slotted in.
Now the progression looks like this:
Crafted gear/Extreme -> Savage -> Criterion/Criterion Savage/Chaotic/Ultimate
The progression should be like this in my opinion:
Crafted gear/Extreme -> Savage/Criterion/Chaotic -> Criterion Savage/Ultimate
=> The difference being Criterion and Chaotic shouldn't be reliant on having done Savage in the previous expansion, because Criterion and Chaotic ARE Savage level.
Your argument would be (or should be), since Savage and Chaotic give the same ILvl rewards, they should be having the same cap. Sounds logical, right? (Criterion didn't give BiS rewards.)
But in practice, since Savage is released on x.0 and Criterion/Chaotic on x.1, many people block out returners in x.1 (who didn't play in x.0 due to various reasons) from joining statics in the first few weeks. And remember, Criterion/Chaotic already have an abysmal participation rate as I posted previously.
Plus Chaotic is now going to face a slow death just like DR Savage after 7.2. People who "couldn't follow the trend" are basically locked out of the content unless you spend a couple of weeks on PF/Discord begging people to join.
It'll not be a problem if Savage and Criterion/Chaotic were both released on x.0 at the same time. But since it's not the case, the system is made to actively encourage people to "lock out" people with a lower ILvl.
My solution would be to first not put any the ILvl cap gear in those odd-numbered contents, and then lower the ILvl cap so that people who returned in x.1/3/5 can jump right in without having to go through Savage or tens of hunt trains first. This can encourage much more people to join those contents and bring their participation rates (3.5%) more on par with Savage (10%).
That was the whole point of the original post.
You can disagree, but your whole premise is so wrong I had to write this text wall to explain more clearly so that the post doesn't go off-track. -
03-23-2025, 07:29 PMYukioKobayashiThen change "Can SEstop gate-keeping mid-core contents behind Savage ILvl on release?" to something like "Can the Community stop gate-keeping mid-core contents behind Savage ILvl on release?"Quote:
Originally Posted by TakumiHarada
SE made it to where you can do all content except on content ultimates with crafted gear.
But again. The "raiding community" dont want someone who cant even clear savage in Chaotic or Criterion for good reason.
People that cant even clear the current raidtier in 8+ months are imo bad at the game and dont belong in chaotic or criterion.
Letting people like this in would only increase wipes, disbands and possibly enrages. -
03-23-2025, 07:51 PMNero-Voidstailsthat's why I said back in the day and in every content you have questionable player and I will again repeat echo destroyed the balance of Bozja and zadnor that unless you really are bad you cannot die unless red comet I still see this dude wipe partiesQuote:
Originally Posted by YukioKobayashi
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03-23-2025, 07:53 PMNero-Voidstailsyet in JP they do oh right NA raiders are heavily toxic I forgot they also often cheat to clear or use illegal tools to make sure all member are good oh damQuote:
Originally Posted by YukioKobayashi
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03-23-2025, 08:05 PMCNitsahQuote:
Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails
The things is that for a lot of players midcore has nothing to do with difficulty, but the investment you need to put in it. That investment might be difficulty, but it's not limited to that. Depending of how you interact with them Eureka and bozja can be both casual (if you only do them once for the story) and midcore (if you try to get all the relics, the equipments, the field notes, the medals, the mounts, etc). Someone that farmed all of the Eureka relics is definitely not a casual player anymore. This is also why some people consider Extreme as hardcore and other not, because for some the fact of going to check a guide on a boss or a rotation (something the game should teach you for the later one) is some kind of investment that's far more demanding that spending 500 hours in Eureka. There is also the fun factor. A lot of players don't come here to study a strat, it's not fun for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by YukioKobayashi
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03-23-2025, 08:31 PMYukioKobayashiDo you really believe JP doesnt cheat? All regions cheat. JP is so bad at cheating they cant even hide it. Look WF FRU and TOP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails
https://i.imgur.com/zJTQVOc.png https://i.imgur.com/Lb4OWZI.jpeg
Long story short. If you are so bad at the game that you cant even clear savage, dont expect strangers to carry you in chaotic and criterion. -
03-23-2025, 08:40 PMVolgiaThis only happens in PF. You can recruit people to do Criterion and Savage, if there are groups and discord servers still doing the Baldesion Arsenal why wouldn't there be groups for Chaotic?Quote:
Originally Posted by TakumiHarada
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03-23-2025, 08:58 PMNero-Voidstailsyou are also aware that buying carries is also a thing like that neither of us like it or not some ultimate player I have seen are worst then casual player like I feel some title doesn't weight much anymore due to thatQuote:
Originally Posted by YukioKobayashi
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03-24-2025, 01:45 AMbrinn12And where did you get the idea that I'm not reading your posts? Even so, if you weren’t able to express your main point when creating a thread, that wouldn’t be my fault. Not everyone has the time to read everything, and those people reply to the OP. If you changed your mind for any reason, it would also be on you to edit the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by TakumiHarada
Anyway, FFXIV has three gear tiers throughout an expansion, and a player can progress through all of them by buying the latest crafted gear. If they miss the first few weeks, they can still easily progress. If they miss the entire even-numbered patch, they can wait for the next one, at which point they’ll have the same item level as any other player by acquiring the new crafted gear. Savage fights don’t scale up, they get easier over time. Even if you're in full crafted gear by week four, there will be players with +10 or +20 item level pieces. Therefore, the game is already designed to accommodate returning players. If Party Finder groups set item level requirements for whatever reason, that’s not SE’s fault. SE makes it possible for players with lower item levels to clear the content — they did that on week 1.
Criterion and Savage are not reliant on doing any other content, literally just buy crafted gear and get in. You're spreading misinformation. Returners can buy crafted gear and prog them. Returners can always prog any fight under Ultimate difficulty, so long as there are PFs for it. No one is gatekept outside of Ultimates and Criterion Savage(which is essentially above Savage difficulty).
You’re suggesting that, late into a tier, SE should release Savage-level content with a level cap below the Savage tier’s level cap, when people have worked so hard for their gear. And I’m not even talking about just high-end raiders—there are casual players sitting at an item level much higher than the crafted gear when this content is released. And as I’ve said before (and it seems you keep ignoring), people meld their gear, people upgrade their gear. They are incentivized to do so, and there’s no way SE would backtrack for anything above Extreme in the middle of a tier. -
03-24-2025, 02:26 AMAkamadoshi
From what I recall it was a good lesson learned from Chaotic Alliance Raid... They have overestimated their players - on top of that required Savage clear at least in the last moment when it was already rumored to be "newbie friendly" . all my non-raiding friends went to Chaotic until realizing it was way above their pay grade. They quit. When the hair contest winner made X post about being unable to enter - the uproar was loud and there were announcements/notices about it. I hope they learn to lower the gate-keeping. BTW, Savage is not hardcore. (You can easily beat Savage taking the time of your life, because it takes a lifetime before restrictions are lifted - enough time for casuals logging in for 1 lockout practice to complete a tier at leisure) that is, if you consider hardcore determined on time spent and hours at once in a raid.
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03-24-2025, 04:39 AMAsari5
the good old 'what is midcore discussion' lol.
and once again people mix up difficulty and investment. two things thst arent the same thing but people use the same words to scale them so its like they think they talk about the same things but they dont xD -
03-24-2025, 09:48 PMTakumiHaradaAre you not reading my post on purpose? Part 4Quote:
Originally Posted by YukioKobayashi
This includes people who were busy and unsubbed during the even-numbered patches.Quote:
(who didn't play in x.0 due to various reasons)
Are you an elitist or just have so much time to spend on a game that you forget people have a life?
Before you say "then don't play", Chaotic was advertised as an Extreme level Alliance raid before they realised they toned it to Savage level a couple of weeks before release.
Why bother. Why do I bother writing anything. -
03-24-2025, 09:53 PMTakumiHaradaAre you not reading my posts on purpose? Part 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volgia
Jeez. People are really bad at reading on the internet aren't they?
Why can't they? Because Chaotic ALREADY DIED back in Feb, at least on my JP DCs. SE kept making join-while-it's-in-season contents like DR Savage and forget about them after half a year.Quote:
People who "couldn't follow the trend" are basically locked out of the content unless you spend a couple of weeks on PF/Discord begging people to join.
And it's only going to be even more deader post-7.2.
This is the last time I post anything in this thread. Seriously, please READ before you quote anyone. -
03-24-2025, 10:04 PMXapapetsuHi, I'm the gate keeper who locks you out of content, and I'll explain why. The issue with leaving the ILvl at the minimum is the quality of players you end up with. I'm looking to clear content not babysit or carry people. If they at least invested enough time to get 5 iLvl below max they're probably decent enough to clear the content. I never see anyone lock content behind bis unless they're trying to go for the funny numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TakumiHarada
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03-24-2025, 10:08 PMTakumiHaradaGod... You're really a tease aren't you. I already need to eat my words and reply again. This is really the last time. (lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xapapetsu
Are you lot f**king not reading my posts on purpose? Part f**king 6. (God! People REALLY don't read!)
I know, I don't blame you. That's why I blame SE on the design.Quote:
Well, call me names but people act according to a game/software's design.
And I'm saying this is a bad design, and people are acting accordingly. I don't blame the people because the design allows them.
Editing even more of my own posts THAT YOU QUOTED because people REALLY don't read.
Quote:
Of course you can clear those contents with a lower ILvl, but who would want to let people without 730 gear join a chaotic static on release?
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03-24-2025, 10:22 PMxbahax92You're trying to win a war, which you simply can't win. They're not going to change their design philosophy, just because people started locking out players by iLVL restrictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by TakumiHarada
There are parties, which reach enrage without casualties. They simply do not meet DPS checks at all. This is a case, where iLVL lockouts can certainly help.
Yes the combat parameters influence player attitude to some extend, but it's all uninteresting once we can enter the content with higher iLVL.
In a few months, we're going to skip so many mechanics due to ilvl sync. It's a matter of time at this point. -
03-24-2025, 10:43 PMXapapetsuThe thing is sqex isn't at fault. It's partially on me for gate keeping, and partially on the playerbase that lies about prog points thinking they can get carried to the end. Aside from making rotations a single button and having your character move for you, there's nothing sqex can do to make players play better and even if they did that, I promise someone will still mess up. I'm probably just jaded from PF, but I've seen too much of the worst in players.Quote:
Originally Posted by TakumiHarada
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03-25-2025, 12:05 AMVolgiaI'm gonna sound like an old man here but back in the days of yore you had to join high raid end communities to do these with, FCs even. PF will always work on these when it's hot and people burnt out of it because it was the only meaningful repeatable content to do in 7.1Quote:
Originally Posted by TakumiHarada
Content like this encourages people into joining raiding communities and I hope that trend continues. -
03-25-2025, 01:17 AMKohashiI have not raided in anything but EU but this is such a huge issue here. I don't have the mental capacity to sit around and watch the same person wipe the entire group over and over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xapapetsu
If people want and have the capacity to put up with that, more power to them, I just can't anymore. -
03-25-2025, 01:39 AMMercury_GreyLOL please keep me up to date I have to read the resultsQuote:
Originally Posted by Kohashi
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03-25-2025, 02:36 AMXapapetsuM4S sunrise prog, but they can't resolve EE2, I have no problem helping prog parties clear, just be honest with your prog point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kohashi
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03-25-2025, 06:40 AMMawlzyI suspect it encouraged more people to avoid future chaotic alliance raids, if any.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volgia
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03-25-2025, 06:46 AMKohashiIndeed. I usually spend all my remaining time, after I got BiS, helping prog parties or I just become a merc to speed prog missing/incomplete statics because I do genuinely want more people to try savage at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xapapetsu
However, I just cannot stand people lying. My Blacklist always fills up when I prog/ do re-clears. (don't worry no hard feelings and I always delete them after). -
03-25-2025, 06:48 AMForteNightshade
I've read through OP's post and responses several times and still can't parse how they think changing the ilvl sync would have any real impact? Either you want them to nerf the content entirely, making it accessible at a lower level to begin with or your ire should be directed towards the community not SE for forcing an ilvl restriction.
In the former's case, that would completely defeat the point of higher difficulty. Chaotic was never intended to be tackled by everyone, but the more midcore playerbase who does put in time to raid. Just not to the extent of clearing an Ultimate on patch or Savage within 2-4 weeks. It isn't meant for say, the Unreal crowd. With that said, I do think the body check requirements were a bit too restrictive in Chaotic if only because herding together 24 sheep is... a difficult task.
As for the latter, I'm sorry but people are not obligated to help you clear any content. If I list a party with a specific ilvl or requirement, even if it's something ridiculous like "must be a catgirl to join" then guess what? If you aren't a catgirl, you can kicked. It's my party and my rules. The reason people do this is to filter out potential bad players in whatever way they can. Some will still sneak through, but it helps mitigate the amount of them. Otherwise, you run into what I had to deal with prog liars in FRU trying to sneak into enrage parties when they'd never even seen the final phase. SE lowering the ilvl sync wouldn't change that unless they made the content itself easier. They could allow people with i690 gear into Chaotic. If it's the same difficulty as it is now, I'm locking it to i725 at a minimum. Don't like it? Make your own party. -
03-25-2025, 07:30 AMGaddes
TBH I don't think iLvl had anything to do with Chaotic raids being abandoned within a month, the bigger issue is that people just overall aren't good enough at coordination/mechanics for 24-man content like that and I think a lot of folks were tired of bashing their heads against a wall when a handful of people would keep failing mechanics and preventing clears. I know I personally lost interest due to that.... I could keep watching teammates eat boss mechanics for hours or use those hours doing something else productive. iLvl / damage output wasn't the problem.
Also, wasn't min iLvl for Chaotic only like 710 or 720? My understanding was the damage dealt at less than 730 wasn't an issue for killing the boss, it's more about people doing mechs correctly, so it's really just that anyone avoiding folks with lower iLvls are probably equating higher iLvl for higher competency, which... I mean what can you really do about that since that's the person's preference?