Another World First Clear got disqualified due to "Cheating"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NegativeS

XIV's JP community is the undefeated world champion of ruining things for everyone else.

---

That's just the ones we see. Who's to say that in some of the contesting teams their members (the ones not streaming) aren't using mods as well?

I'm new to FFXIV Online and in general to the world of MMORPGs. I played GW2 for a while, it's a pretty good game.
I was hyped when New World came out, I played it for 160+ hours in the first month, but it was a total disappointment.
I also played WoW last expansion, but I stopped after I finished the story.
I watched World Race on WoW and it seems too basic to me. What I appreciate about FFXIV Online is that, the raid that is added is not on PTR and the teams that participate in the World Race cannot play it like in WoW.
And besides that in WoW there are addons that show you when to use a skill and when the boss uses an ability.
Of all the MMORPGs, FFXIV Online seems to be the best on the market from every point of view! I'm glad that I finally found the perfect MMO for me. It's sad what happened to World Race now... I don't understand why even in an MMORPG cheats are used... I don't generally understand people who use cheats because that's it, it's good that it was discovered and they removed them from race!

Honestly, I think Yoshi P should go ahead with the consequence of stopping developing Ultimates and I say this as someone who enjoys them. Blooming cheaters ruining things for the rest of us.

Idk if it’s a hot take or what but I really can’t fathom this.

Raid groups go through all the effort of preparing and gearing for ultimates, sign up to it knowing the content is intended to be the peak of ffxiv’s difficulty. They race against each other to be the ‘first’ ones to beat this super difficult content.

…then they use third party programs to make it easier? Wtf is the point lol? Why are they even doing ‘hard’ content if they’re going to use a bunch of illegal software to make it as easy as possible? I mean, doesn’t that pretty much invalidate the meaning of the ‘win’ anyway? ‘You beat the hardest content in the game and all it took was some third party programs’ lol.

If people are (bizarrely) going to argue ‘it’s impossible without plug-ins/mods/etc ’ then that sounds like a pretty major design flaw in the content and not license to just do whatever you want lol. Seems a bit weird for them to make content that cannot be completed without third-party programs when there’s a significant portion of the playerbase that literally cannot access them (console player)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Connor

Idk if it’s a hot take or what but I really can’t fathom this.

Raid groups go through all the effort of preparing and gearing for ultimates, sign up to it knowing the content is intended to be the peak of ffxiv’s difficulty. They race against each other to be the ‘first’ ones to beat this super difficult content.

…then they use third party programs to make it easier? Wtf is the point lol? Why are they even doing ‘hard’ content if they’re going to use a bunch of illegal software to make it as easy as possible? I mean, doesn’t that pretty much invalidate the meaning of the ‘win’ anyway? ‘You beat the hardest content in the game and all it took was some third party programs’ lol.

If people are (bizarrely) going to argue ‘it’s impossible without plug-ins/mods/etc ’ then that sounds like a pretty major design flaw in the content and not license to just do whatever you want lol. Seems a bit weird for them to make content that cannot be completed without third-party programs when there’s a significant portion of the playerbase that literally cannot access them (console player)

---

Because the point is to be numba oneONEoneOne. It's not about challenging yourself. It's about being on the top of a scoreboard.

To hell how you get there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Connor

…then they use third party programs to make it easier? Wtf is the point lol?

---

Exactly. I really hope this finally moves them to enforce Punishments on Users not giving a damn about the ToS. This is the THIRD Ultimate in a Row where the world first Team got caught using third party software

Let me offer you a different perspective here.

In the past, it was *normal* to use straight up cheater plugins (you know, stuff that shows ground AOEs, tells you exactly where to stand and what to do) but then such stuff was not commonly streamed, and SE has no way of detecting. The only way we know is because of old clear videos that show obvious stuff.

a cheat plugin that shows a pixel perfect dot is absolutely laughable, and it's sort of good progress that this is now considered to be out of line. I agree that it is out of line, but compared to how the world first race used to go a few expansions ago, then last year's zoom hack and this year's pixel perfect dot is actually a sign of progress.

Such things are not easy to root out overnight, and it will likely never stop. But with every ultimate, it seems like it's going better and it happens more fairly, at least for world first.
Cheaters will always exist, and I hope SE also realizes this, and doesn't punish the rest of us for the actions of a few high-profile cases. Because many of us just do ultimates the normal and intended way and are having a blast with it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

That's just the ones we see. Who's to say that in some of the contesting teams their members (the ones not streaming) aren't using mods as well?

---

Fun fact, [nintendo switch game] doesn't show up on OBS, in fact, all [ffxiv meteor] UI elements don't show up unless you do full screen capture. So even streaming groups could be using it without you knowing. It's a stupid way to determine legitimacy.
Even then there's tons of tools like [A12S boss] and [Microsoft word assistant] that help with ping all happen behind the scenes, so again, dumb to assume streamers are legit.

Imagine after years of playing the hardest of hardest content, still not intuitively knowing where your hitpixel is. Pathetic.

Look XD and you thought ppl were honest....no one is lol we all cheat the moment were looking at guides. World first has probably been cheating for a long time it just finally got exposed they probably cheating on the new ultimate.

Imagine thinking that looking up strategies and using 3rd party mods that do a significant part of the gameplay automatically or even interfere with the packages sent between client and server are even comparable. Pathetic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Havenchild

While Pixel Perfect is not the most egregious tool , it simply stands that it opens the floodgates to all of them. We can't really tell how many mods they used. Also all of them are guilty by association so whatever GRIND sat their trying to throw their player under the bus, can pass me with that L. Most groups during WF are using at least ACT for parsing, but included in that can be cactbot and automarks so theirs that.

SE is at fault here as much as the players who seem to have the inability to scrub their screenshots before submitting proof.

Take a look at ultimates in PF, what do you see?

"I have it"
"Bring it"
"AM"
"Allagan Melons"

These people and those in World First race that get caught should be handed 6+ month bans on their accounts at least. Ban everyone that joins that party as well for 6+ months as they are guilty by association and benefit. Make it so that marks ALWAYS leave a message in chat so people can report. Do that, and this AM use stops almost immediately. If they are allowed to be as flagrant in PF, why would people respect the World First Race?

---

While I agree about abiding by the ToS, this would kill the game. No, not because you remove AM, but because if they did that, they would need to do the same thing with the moon. And that population of players is massive. Your solution is also incredibly dangerous as someone could join a party that doesn't advertise "allegan melon", but then someone turns it on and uses it anyway. Boom, you're banned just because you joined an innocent party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AllenThyl

Imagine after years of playing the hardest of hardest content, still not intuitively knowing where your hitpixel is. Pathetic.

---

Says the Lalafell that is exactly 1 pixel on the screen...

I hope they still do level80 mainstory ultimate, it is what I am looking forward to.

just further proof that raiding is in mmo is laughable compared to wow lmao

Well I actually feel bad about the devs putting into so much effort to release ultimates for that 1% raiding scene and at the same time be naive enough that THIS TIME they won't cheat.. RIGHT?

On the other hand it's absolutely hilarious that ppl cry about the game being too easy but at the same time use cheats like these to clear stuff ASAP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shikiseki

Well I actually feel bad about the devs putting into so much effort to release ultimates for that 1% raiding scene and at the same time be naive enough that THIS TIME they won't cheat.. RIGHT?

On the other hand it's absolutely hilarious that ppl cry about the game being too easy but at the same time use cheats like these to clear stuff ASAP

---

The only thing naive here is thinking ultimates are some generous and selfless gift by the devs to only a tiny minority at the expense of company resources just for the fun of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

While I agree about abiding by the ToS, this would kill the game. No, not because you remove AM, but because if they did that, they would need to do the same thing with the moon. And that population of players is massive.

---

The game was doing fine before those people showed up, it'll survive without them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

The game was doing fine before those people showed up, it'll survive without them.

---

Yeah I mean technically the game will probably survive with half its playerbase gone, most of its listening post advertising lost and an anti cheat that will probably make the client function even worse than it does now

It’s probably not gonna survive in a healthy state though

"We want harder content!!!"
- People cheating to make the content easier

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

No, not because you remove AM, but because if they did that, they would need to do the same thing with the moon. And that population of players is massive. .

---

If they need hacks to play the game, and don't want to play the game without hacks... I mean? Why cater to this demographic by allowing them to thrive at the expense of everyone else?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Says the Lalafell that is exactly 1 pixel on the screen...

I hope they still do level80 mainstory ultimate, it is what I am looking forward to.

---

So "the best of the best of the best" are doing everything to get even the most minuscule of advantage, even if it means violating the ToS and risk getting banned, but switching to Lala is just too much to ask? :D
Sweet baby Thaliak, one excuse more pathetic than the next.

Here's to hoping SE will just implement their own versions of these cheats exclusively for console players one day, since cheating will just forever run rampant and leave us at a disadvantage for the rest of the games lifespan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

The game was doing fine before those people showed up, it'll survive without them.

---

That's great, but this is also a business, it doesn't matter if it will "survive" without them, it matters that it makes more money with them, you are very naïve if you think anything else matters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

That's great, but this is also a business, it doesn't matter if it will "survive" without them, it matters that it makes more money with them, you are very naïve if you think anything else matters.

---

Oh, I don't think SE is going to do anything about any of this. I'm just saying the other guy was wrong that it would "kill the game".

a single red pixel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thaciscokidd

At this point if they came down hard on Mod users all the causal players and QoL mod users would get caught in the crossfire and thus lower that all important bottom line.

---

All cheats are cheats.

No modifications, dataming and other things is permitted, it has been stated loud and clear multiple times in live by the man Yoshi P himself, there IS no grey areas either whenever it get to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Oh, I don't think SE is going to do anything about any of this. I'm just saying the other guy was wrong that it would "kill the game".

---

I mean, it actually might? not because it wouldn't be making enough money, but because SE execs have consistently displayed the mentality of "if it doesn't make all the money, it's not enough", and a live service game suddenly losing a huge amount of revenue would be seen as a reason to sunset the game, even if it was still turning up a decent profit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I mean, it actually might? not because it wouldn't be making enough money, but because SE execs have consistently displayed the mentality of "if it doesn't make all the money, it's not enough", and a live service game suddenly losing a huge amount of revenue would be seen as a reason to sunset the game, even if it was still turning up a decent profit.

---

Yoshi-P is on the board of directors. He is one of the SE execs. And he would likely explain before doing anything to stop mods like "there would be an expected loss in revenue, but it is overall necessary for the long term health of the game" or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yoshi-P is on the board of directors. He is one of the SE execs. And he would likely explain before doing anything to stop mods like "there would be an expected loss in revenue, but it is overall necessary for the long term health of the game" or something.

---

How would he convince them that it would be healthy in the long term for the game, though? How many people are going to come back because mod-use was restricted? Is there really an audience that would play the game were it only not for people cheating to get world first twice a year or so?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yoshi-P is on the board of directors. He is one of the SE execs. And he would likely explain before doing anything to stop mods like "there would be an expected loss in revenue, but it is overall necessary for the long term health of the game" or something.

---

I argue it would be more harmful because a lot of people are in the modding scene and use this for RP and other things that aren’t cheating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yoshi-P is on the board of directors. He is one of the SE execs. And he would likely explain before doing anything to stop mods like "there would be an expected loss in revenue, but it is overall necessary for the long term health of the game" or something.

---

I am pretty certain if he walked up to the other members of the board of directors and explained that he knows exactly why the money printing machine is printing less money than before and how it was the direct result of his decisions, he'd be met with a firm "wtf put it back".

Legitimately, taking a huge decision that impacts revenue is directly against what he is supposed to do, and it puts his ability to manage the game going forward in a negative light as well as the game's ability to continue to make money, and you cannot argue about sanctity of gameplay to an executive, they do not care about that, being in the board wouldn't mean much to protect the game if he is saying he willfully took decisions that he knew would impact revenue, at very little gain in exchange.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sacae

How would he convince them that it would be healthy in the long term for the game, though? How many people are going to come back because mod-use was restricted? Is there really an audience that would play the game were it only not for people cheating to get world first twice a year or so?

---

Well new players might be using the moon mod in place of buying things from the mog shop, especially since you can customize way more things that no amount of money can buy, like custom teleport animations or spell effects or viera hats. So the argument could be to kill mods and get people giving SE money for mog shop glamours again.

And people aren't just cheating to get world first, that's just when it gets the most publicity. People are cheating in all the hard content all the time, and then complaining online that the game is too easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Well new players might be using the moon mod in place of buying things from the mog shop, especially since you can customize way more things that no amount of money can buy, like custom teleport animations or spell effects or viera hats. So the argument could be to kill mods and get people giving SE money for mog shop glamours again.

And people aren't just cheating to get world first, that's just when it gets the most publicity. People are cheating in all the hard content all the time, and then complaining online that the game is too easy.

---

Considering people even cheat in Frontlines, just assume that you're always sharing an instance with a cheater.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

All cheats are cheats.

---

Yeah but there are some mods that help with accessibility and are sadly not in the base game that help people play. Those are the only ones that I'll campaign for and actually worry about being hit.

The main issue here is that cheating tools for World First are packed together with Viera/Hroth Hats solutions, and only one of those two is actually harmful.

If they:
- Sanctioned some solutions as to make them TOS compliant, they could then easily break down on unsanctioned solutions that don't, but that's too much effort.
- If they themselves ran the World First races and combined with the point above, they could tackle cheaters in a much more controlled environment, but that's too much effort.

Bottom line: They don't care.

I guess some of us are ultra evil for wanting our hats too.

Edit: I killed Twintania on a PS3, why would anyone need any plugin to do content in this game??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiaDeem

The main issue here is that cheating tools for World First are packed together with Viera/Hroth Hats solutions, and only one of those two is actually harmful.

If they:
- Sanctioned some solutions as to make them TOS compliant, they could then easily break down on unsanctioned solutions that don't, but that's too much effort.
- If they themselves ran the World First races and combined with the point above, they could tackle cheaters in a much more controlled environment, but that's too much effort.

Bottom line: They don't care.

I guess some of us are ultra evil for wanting our hats too.

---

Oh dont you know lord Yoshi P declared hats on buns is a no go, what you speak is heresy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WillIrishclover

Oh dont you know lord Yoshi P declared hats on buns is a no go, what you speak is heresy

---

Yeah, the solution is beyond mortal hands. It's someone else has already fixed their problem... right? https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/58d8...49ecc7/1x.webp

Instead of banning all modding they really should use this a motivator to make a couple of the mechanics in high-end fights less predictable.

But this is the ironically named Creative Studio 3, so perish the thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiaDeem

- Sanctioned some solutions as to make them TOS compliant, they could then easily break down on unsanctioned solutions that don't, but that's too much effort.

---

WOW did this and it let them ban everyone who used combat automaters at once without any false positives