Why the housing system makes people quit and possibly not come back

indie games has better housing system and it is online.. just 1 year ago Mr. yoshi decided to kill my house which it was large and over 200 million worth of items..

give me a break I will never go back to that again

The auto demolition was added because you'd have dead free companies where the last person who was set as FC leader logged on 350 days ago and was a level 38 lancer that didn't even have a job stone equipped. So I don't have a problem with the concept of auto demolition.

But.

1. It should have been set to a MUCH longer period of time, at least 3-4 months for free companies, and like a year for personal houses
2. This would mean they didn't need to turn off the auto demolition every time a natural disaster happened, for that matter

The current 45 day limit sounds like exactly the sort of genius idea dreamed up by an actuary trying to "drive customer engagement" and not a customer server minded designer trying to solve the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catwho

The auto demolition was added because you'd have dead free companies where the last person who was set as FC leader logged on 350 days ago and was a level 38 lancer that didn't even have a job stone equipped. So I don't have a problem with the concept of auto demolition.

But.

1. It should have been set to a MUCH longer period of time, at least 3-4 months for free companies, and like a year for personal houses
2. This would mean they didn't need to turn off the auto demolition every time a natural disaster happened, for that matter

The current 45 day limit sounds like exactly the sort of genius idea dreamed up by an actuary trying to "drive customer engagement" and not a customer server minded designer trying to solve the problem.

---

It forces people to stay subscribed so thats a problem by itself especially with the lack of content in the game, that's why adaptable wards that auto create based on demand (for smalls at the very least) are a good idea. At least people can stay subscribed if they want to, but are also able to get a small at the very least when/if they come back

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PassinLay

It forces people to stay subscribed so thats a problem by itself especially with the lack of content in the game, that's why adaptable wards that auto create based on demand (for smalls at the very least) are a good idea. At least people can stay subscribed if they want to, but are also able to get a small at the very least when/if they come back

---

The problem is with the existing wards that were clogged up with clearly abandoned houses that nobody could purchase because the FCs were long since gone. Before auto demolition was added, we had a dozen of these houses on every ward.

I don't disagree that for the future, an instance housing solution is a much better way forward. Note that apartments never go away - if they added additional medium and large sized apartments and added the missing features that people want from houses (exterior yard spaces, the ability to plant things, etc) or just added the instanced ward with dummy houses and/or charged an extra fee to unlock extra houses in that same ward on the same account.... they'd make money and solve the problem too.

But auto demolition was added on our request for a reason. They just implemented it in the greediest way possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catwho

The problem is with the existing wards that were clogged up with clearly abandoned houses that nobody could purchase because the FCs were long since gone. Before auto demolition was added, we had a dozen of these houses on every ward.

I don't disagree that for the future, an instance housing solution is a much better way forward. Note that apartments never go away - if they added additional medium and large sized apartments and added the missing features that people want from houses (exterior yard spaces, the ability to plant things, etc) or just added the instanced ward with dummy houses and/or charged an extra fee to unlock extra houses in that same ward on the same account.... they'd make money and solve the problem too.

But auto demolition was added on our request for a reason. They just implemented it in the greediest way possible.

---

I dont even agree with instanced housing at all, if anything I am agaisnt it, I just think self-create wards are the best idea so that everyone can at least get a small is an easy way to keep both the ward housing and also to make everyone have a place they can call home.

Instanced housing would be a soulless place, it would be atrocious in itself, there's already enough games with atrocious housing, and I sincerely hope it never comes to FFXIV.

The problem of auto demo would be solved by self-create wards, and even increase their revenue indirectly as more people would stay subscribed because of their house.

Unpopular Opinion: People should be allowed to sell their homes. But it should be in an open bidding process through the housing system, so home owners can get back their gil. Right now they have no reason to let go of a house, when doing so means they lose all the gil they put into it. You give me a way to get back my gil, or maybe even more, and I'd let go of most of my houses in a heartbeat. That's how it works IRL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PassinLay

I dont even agree with instanced housing at all, if anything I am agaisnt it, I just think self-create wards are the best idea so that everyone can at least get a small is an easy way to keep both the ward housing and also to make everyone have a place they can call home.

Instanced housing would be a soulless place, it would be atrocious in itself, there's already enough games with atrocious housing, and I sincerely hope it never comes to FFXIV.

The problem of auto demo would be solved by self-create wards, and even increase their revenue indirectly as more people would stay subscribed because of their house.

---

Why in the seven hells would you be against instanced housing? Private wards are a waste of resources. You get a house, decorate it, and then it wastes away for all eternity in a ghost ward.

It's just as atrocious as those other games with instanced housing, safe of the fact that everybody can get a house in those other games.

IMO, they should get rid of private wards and make them only available for FCs and introduce instanced housing for players with upgrade options.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by genuine_stranger

Why in the seven hells would you be against instanced housing? Private wards are a waste of resources. You get a house, decorate it, and then it wastes away for all eternity in a ghost ward.

It's just as atrocious as those other games with instanced housing, safe of the fact that everybody can get a house in those other games.

IMO, they should get rid of private wards and make them only available for FCs and introduce instanced housing for players with upgrade options.

---

I dont find it interesting and fun, that's just my opinion, I'd rather be in a "dead" ward with actual player made houses than be in a dead "instanced" ward with no houses at all or pre-built houses, at least in ward housing I feel like I am in an MMO, with instanced housing I wouldnt feel that, plus it removes the entire uniqueness of FFXIV's housing, so no thank you.

I would love for housing to be better in this game. Both in terms of availability and storage of housing items. Especially outdoor items. I have a small house but only like 20 spaces to store items. At least with apartments, free company room, and personal house I can hold so much more items interior, but exterior is so restricted. Island sanctuary does not help as that is some glamor system and not storage. Even just adding an outdoor garden or something with indoor decorating limits would help.

Could be even more interesting to add private grottos or something around the world in places we normally don’t have housing. Just a small instanced area like apartment rooms except you get an outside and inside space with much higher item limit for outside items. Moon would be a good place for this, or garlemald, ala migo, sharlyean even… we saved the star, surely they can afford to give us a house, or a smaller research cave in labarynthos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

There are plenty free houses, just buy a S house instead of trying to get a L/M House, they are limited and in my opinion every ward should only have 2 M Houses and 1 L House.

Its easier to complain about the housing because lets be real most people complaining here are complaining because they cant get a L/M House.

---

Why should big houses be limited? I keep seeing people saying it and I have never once been presented with an actual argument for it. Clearly, people don't want Small houses. Mediums and Larges get picked up immediately while the Small houses are left empty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PassinLay

Instanced housing would be a soulless place, it would be atrocious in itself, there's already enough games with atrocious housing, and I sincerely hope it never comes to FFXIV.

---

And ward housing isn't soulless? The wards are deserted. Outside of venues, you never see anyone out and about. I hang out in our FC house a LOT and I have yet to see a single neighbor in over two years.

And that's not even getting into the horrendous visual incongruity of half of Empyreum being Asian-style houses that do not even kind of fit in, Gingerbread abominations and those horrendous massive Namazu decorations.

I would take instanced housing where people could visit your house over this garbage any day.

It's funny how people tend to complain about their neighbors more than anything ("grrr, he made a paissa home!"), but then they'll turn around and clutch their nuts over the idea of just letting everyone build a home in a personalized customizable instanced void or something. Because it was never really about preserving the uniqueness of ward housing for them. They just want their scarce thing to stay scarce so they can pretend that they own something valuable. There's probably also an element of sunk cost fallacy thrown in; lots of these people who barely play the game only log in to keep their house, so some of them feel like if the housing system became less exclusive, all this money they've spent maintaining their mansion that nobody ever visits would be a waste.

Seriously, I used to browse the housing forums and we'd get people defending wards all day. It's hard to really take them seriously, because it's like watching someone eat out of a trash can and tell me it's a delicacy or something. I can understand liking the way a ward looks, but if you had the ability to build a home in an instanced room that resembled your favorite ward anyway, why would it matter that your home wasn't also surrounded by people's empty front lawns and locked submarine factories? And I say this as someone who owns a house, before you come at me calling me a bitter homeless dude with sour grapes. This current system is very limiting and and it's done that way to keep people subbed. That's all there is to it. People who paid for this game and want a house might actually never get one or have to wait years before they win one unless they play on some dead world, and it's all kept this way even with cloud solutions and island sanctuary tech because they wanna keep homeowners anchored to the game even when it's crap for 9 months straight. Defending this predatory BS as a player is like being a lamb and getting eaten by a wolf, but you're like "nah I'm sure the wolf has a good reason for eating me you guys. Actually I like being eaten, I find it preferable to not being eaten." Game'll never get better because people like this exist in droves and constantly write square a blank check to make the game worse; except instead of providing no pushback, they go the extra mile and try to shout down anyone who just asks for things to be better. Hell, I've once proposed just making an instanced system in addition to the wards so that people who really love wards can have their wards and people who don't care can just decorate a house in peace, and they STILL had a problem with it. It's weird to me that people like this exist. Like I said before, it's hard to take them seriously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avoidy

text

---

What a ridiculous take lmao, you can just like ward housing for what it is you know, it aint a conspiracy of wanting people to stay without houses.

It took me 5 and a half years to get a small plot on Balmung. I spent many days sitting there clicking the placard for up to 10 hours straight, a,most always losing to someone botting. I’d sigh and walk away while 5 to 10 characters remained targeting the placard over and over despite the plot already being sold. I quit the game for several months due to burnout from that system. Then they implemented the lotto and I knew my odds of getting a place were even less now but I was relieved that at least bots had no advantage over me. I collected my deposit back every cycle and tried again and again and again, aiming for the plots with the least bids. Both times they added new wards, I lost a 50/50 for a small plot.

Then last month, I decided I was quitting the game because of the character graphics change. My character wasn’t familiar to me anymore and I lost motivation to play. I stopped feeling connected to the story and the world and I figured I wouldn’t enjoy a house much anymore because of it. So I went to collect my deposit back as usual before letting my account go dormant. Of course that’s the day I won.

Now I’m stuck continuing my sub while I wrestle with the decision of letting it go or not. I have no confidence that this next round of character updates will restore the facial features changed in 7.0. It’s frustrating that I have to lose this small plot I’ve been trying so hard to get for actual years of my life if I want to put my account on hold.

I would say that Yoshi P telling people to take breaks and do other things to be one of the healthiest thing anyone ever said in regards to an mmo...

If it were not for the housing system. Basically it's "Take a break as long as it doesn't exceed the demolition timer." I know they turn it off a lot, but knowing it's a thing makes people anxious.

If you feel like housing in this game is designed to hold you hostage, why do you engage with it? You're only validating the effectiveness of the system by doing so and lending the impression that you're actually okay with it.

Don't forget that you can at least have an apartment and it will not demo. Engage with the system that doesn't hold you hostage instead of the one that does if you want to make a point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheArcticOne

Unpopular Opinion: People should be allowed to sell their homes. But it should be in an open bidding process through the housing system, so home owners can get back their gil. Right now they have no reason to let go of a house, when doing so means they lose all the gil they put into it. You give me a way to get back my gil, or maybe even more, and I'd let go of most of my houses in a heartbeat. That's how it works IRL.

---

SE could refund the full plot purchase price when a plot is voluntarily relinquished. It would get unused houses back into the system faster. Right now players that don't want their house have to wait 45 days to get 80% of their gil back.

I still wouldn't be in favor of player to player sales. All players should have access to a house, not just the wealthy players who can win a bidding war to pick up their 6th house. The lottery doesn't prevent the latter from happening but it makes it a lot more difficult to accomplish for those not interesting in moving to low pop worlds.

The irony of people blaming on housing demolition when it is the player community requesting this feature to begin with

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

The irony of people blaming on housing demolition when it is the player community requesting this feature to begin with

---

The reason people wanted demolition was because of the same reason that we want instanced housing: the lack of houses, which is still the main problem that isn't solved.

I know the lottery system sucks, but in it's slight defense, placard clicking was pure hell.

You were pretty much in a lotto of all the people at that plot clicking on a placard while an invisible timer counted down.

I tried for months to get a single small house this way. I didn't even care where it was, I just wanted one because I like decorating virtual video game houses in any game that lets me. I lost sleep over it. I worked in shifts with my partner to keep clicking. I set an alarm and woke up at 6am some days to hop on and get clicking after clicking until 4am the previous night (bad idea, felt awful). I injured my wrist clicking so much. Truly the stupidest video game injury to get. Finally, I got a small in Mist one morning. I got cursed out by the other people at the placard because "you weren't even here as many hours as me and you won the plot? fuck off" and went back to sleep.

That system SUCKED HARD and I'm glad its gone. Yes, the lotto still sucks, but it's less likely to give you repetitive stress injuries at least. And even though there was less competition due to the need to physically park your character at the house and click, I still knew people who had been trying for months and even years to get a house and had never "won" the clicking lottery. Those were dark times.

The real answer is just to add enough housing for everyone so none of this would be necessary in the first place, of course. But alas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avoidy

It's funny how people tend to complain about their neighbors more than anything ("grrr, he made a paissa home!"), but then they'll turn around and clutch their nuts over the idea of just letting everyone build a home in a personalized customizable instanced void or something. Because it was never really about preserving the uniqueness of ward housing for them. They just want their scarce thing to stay scarce so they can pretend that they own something valuable. There's probably also an element of sunk cost fallacy thrown in; lots of these people who barely play the game only log in to keep their house, so some of them feel like if the housing system became less exclusive, all this money they've spent maintaining their mansion that nobody ever visits would be a waste.
Like I said before, it's hard to take them seriously.

---

An opinion is an opinion, not the absolute truth, yours makes no difference.

LOTRO has housing wards. Tons of wards.
The cost of a LOTRO house is (in ffxiv currency) ~10k gil, a lot of wards are ghost towns. Despite everything (high availability, low economic value, lack of use) players pay the monthly rent to avoid auto-demolition AND many players have premium homes (cost 40-80 dollars, require a rent or auto-demolition).
I don't see ANY reason to think that ffxiv player would act differently.

WoW had 2 forms of instanced housing, one in Pandaria (the farm) and one in Warlord of Draenor. No one cares about these instances anymore.


I don't think ffxiv players buy an house because they wanna show at the world their architecture master degree or have a shower of praises, nor they care about submarines, nor about their value in some shady forum or discord channel, they just want a "fixed" piece of Eorzea and an instance where there is only your house does not meet the requirements, the island sanctuary is "bad" for that reason.

What about this?
Apartments in the cities (for example in Ul'dah, Limsa, Kugane) using existing buildings.
Maybe SE could "rebuild" Ala Mhigo and after this event they could sell apartments in Ala Mhigo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckylefty

the lack of houses, which is still the main problem that isn't solved.

---

Tomberry has 650+ open plots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avoidy

It's funny how people tend to complain about their neighbors more than anything ("grrr, he made a paissa home!")

---

tbf thats on SE and how the wards are arranged and how some newer skins just go over the top. I got the Large house at shirogane's top right corner, wheres a small right in front of it with the MB in front of that. Sweet view, but once i had other neighbors there that used the forge skin which really ruined it... just as that castle wall would. And there are some ppl that just love to troll and place large pillars etc all over it lol

Auto-scaling wards isn't the most pragmatic solution, as the problem is as much a player problem as it is a game problem.

You will have people waiting weeks or months waiting to take up very specific houses, and won't purchase any others and then subsequently complain about the lack of housing. Like, most servers always have houses in circulation.. So at that point you have either players holding hostage a new ward being created, or you end up with a situation where you've got houses being selectively taken from wards, e.g., medium plots, large plots, or just generally plots that players see as prime estate, with the rest of the ward being a wasteland.

To put it into perspective, the plots adjacent to the FC house on my main character has not had a single bid since the inception of that ward. Comparatively, the large estates will always consistently have bids on the first possible bid cycle for that plot, same with the small beachfront plots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Location is certainly a factor, as I've heard plenty of horror stories about people trying to get plots in Mist and Shirogane where everyone seems to want one there, meanwhile you couldn't pay people to take plots in The Goblet or Empyreum apparently.

Likewise, it's pretty obvious that most people don't want smalls (especially the FC ones), and would seemingly choose no house or having to "settle" for one they didn't actually want.

---

One of the issues with the smaller house sizes is the lack of item space. They could probably solve a lot of demand if they made it so you can upgrade the interior to the larger sizes, while keeping the same exterior. Take it a step further and let people upgrade apartments to a larger size too. I genuinely think that would solve a lot of the demand, though it doesn't do a lot to help servers that don't even have any free apartments.

That said the current system will never be enough. Instanced housing is the only way to make sure everyone can get something. Everything else is a band-aid on a gaping wound.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

WoW had 2 forms of instanced housing, one in Pandaria (the farm) and one in Warlord of Draenor. No one cares about these instances anymore.

---

Those weren't instanced housing. They were phased quest hubs for content specific to their respective expansions. The Garrison didn't even give you your own bed to sleep in. WoW has always been extremely good at adding content that no one cares about once a new expansion is released. Even with the overhaul done for the new expansion, I doubt that has changed.

If they had been instanced housing, players absolutely would still care about them just as players in other MMOs with instanced housing continue to care about theirs. Genuine player housing is evergreen content because new expansions don't change what makes player housing desirable.

LotRO housing is a ghost town because it sucks. Same ward style design this game has (ie you'd never see another players because there weren't enough houses in a Neighborhood to get regular player traffic, very limited number of item slots, items could only be placed on the correct type of hook and those hooks were in set (and frequently stupid) locations.

Players already act differently here because the decorating options are far, far better than what LotRO offered.

Island Sanctuary is bad because it's not housing. It's a mammet sweatshop we're allowed to decorate. We can't touch the one structure in the place that represents a home other than to switch between pre-sets.

I'd be very happy to have my little slice of Eorzea in an instance as long as I could customize it to be what I want and not have to worry about the aesthetic tastes of others clashing with it.

Tonberry might have 650 open plots. Crystal + Primal + Aether worlds combined don't. What little becomes available each lottery period on those data centers immediately gets snapped up.

Tonberry might be the most populated JP world at the moment but it still doesn't come close to the lowest pop NA world that isn't on Dynamis. Even Seraph, the highest population Dynamis world (but still lower than all worlds on the other NA data centers) has over 22,000 active characters that are level 71 or higher. Tonberry only has 15,500.

You don't have a housing problem because you don't have a population problem. NA has a population problem and that negatively impacts housing availability.

A good instanced housing system would remove most of the availability problems caused by population.

It's 100% predatory and honestly I feel like an idiot for letting it shackle me to the game for as long as I've let it.