Either take away the healing powers from tanks or give healers tanking powers.

Healers already have mits and shields, it's time to finally give them invulns so they can take TBs when both tanks are dead (just make sure to give scholar living dead to keep with the jank class identity everyone loves for being high skill)

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Originally Posted by Doomfist

Healers already have mits and shields, it's time to finally give them invulns so they can take TBs when both tanks are dead (just make sure to give scholar living dead to keep with the jank class identity everyone loves for being high skill)

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I mean for a while - dunno if they still do - the Druid in WoW had a talent they could pick where they could for a brief moment be good at the two things they didn't pick as their spec. Meaning as a Restoration (=healer) Druid you would all of a sudden deal quite significant damage in cat-form or be able to withstand quite a lot of damage in bear-form. Including getting aggro from the boss. It's a fun idea, and I wish more games would make that work, but then Druid is also sort-of the hybrid-char in that game by design, it was in fact it's original idea at release that it was more role-fluid than the other classes.

They need to just fucking remove tank healing. Potions exist in this game, they should just make potions needed for solo combat and make it so healers can fucking heal again instead of the retardation that is going on.

Or how about healers learn to actually idk heal...

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Or how about healers learn to actually idk heal...

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There's nothing to heal, so what would be the point? You can just press some oGCD and it's fine. That's the entire issue.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Or how about healers learn to actually idk heal...

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Heal... What again?

Tank busters doesn't hurt tanks that much. There aren't much raidwides. Tanks have their own heals, some of them being on par or even better than actual healer's heals. DPSes also have their own heals. Negative status right now cannot be removed by Esuna, but it's not that dangerous.

What is there to heal? Some NPC that hits like a wet noodle?

Aren't healers healing on average 16-20k HPS (12-15M x 2) HP

Total healing In a fight is ~40M. Healer is doing 30M of that. 75%

Tanks contribute about 3M each, 6M

The rest are the DPS mits and self heals. ~650k x 4

Healers not even healing anything.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

Aren't healers healing on average 16-20k HPS (12-15M x 2) HP

Total healing In a fight is ~40M. Healer is doing 30M of that. 75%

Tanks contribute about 3M each, 6M

The rest are the DPS mits and self heals. ~650k x 4

Healers not even healing anything.

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Sorry, on mobile so can't edit.

This includes mits + healing. Majority of the tank and DPS #'s are from mits. Not actual healing.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

Aren't healers healing on average 16-20k HPS (12-15M x 2) HP

Total healing In a fight is ~40M. Healer is doing 30M of that. 75%

Tanks contribute about 3M each, 6M

The rest are the DPS mits and self heals. ~650k x 4

Healers not even healing anything.

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The majority of all healing in savage comes from mitigation. That’s why healers have two seperate problems between casual and savage

In casual they do actually get out healed by the tanks half the time in terms of pure raw HPS, in savage healers are considered responsible for keeping the party alive but they rarely have access to all the mitigation. Pull out the pure healing from a log and the 2 healers together do about 35-40% of the total mitigation, but they are 100% responsible for the deaths caused by other people not mitigating

So in casual content the problem is lack of damage and on WAR the scaling per mob of bloodwhetting just deleting the need for the healer since mitigation is worthless and healing is so low, in savage it’s healers always being at fault for deaths despite only having 1/3rd of the raids actual mitigation

Just rough and tough estimates, but..

Roughly half the healing is mitigation and the healers should be doing around 40%, (shied healer is doing double the non-shield healer), the tanks about 35% and the DPS combined is the remaining 25% mitigation.

Individually each DPS is doing ~6.25% total mitigation. Depending the toolkit.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

Just rough and tough estimates, but..

Roughly half the healing is mitigation and the healers should be doing around 40%, (shied healer is doing double the non-shield healer), the tanks about 35% and the DPS combined is the remaining 25% mitigation.

Individually each DPS is doing ~6.25% total mitigation. Depending the toolkit.

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Exactly, the problems come from a mismatch of community expectations to what each role should actually be doing, all roles are expected to DPS so all roles have access to DPS, only tanks are expected to tank so only tanks have access to a constant stream of self mitigation, only healers (and to a lesser extent tanks) are expected to mitigate but DPS have mitigation at the healers expense

I said it in a different post but trying to remove responsibility from the healer is ultimately a futile prospect because you’ll never change people’s perception that all mistakes are caused by the healer. Giving DPS half the mitigation didn’t make people go “okay we undermitigated this let’s discuss who is responsible” it just made it so people still blame the healer like they always have but now half the time the healer isn’t even responsible which isn’t remotely fun for the healer

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Exactly, the problems come from a mismatch of community expectations to what each role should actually be doing, all roles are expected to DPS so all roles have access to DPS, only tanks are expected to tank so only tanks have access to a constant stream of self mitigation, only healers (and to a lesser extent tanks) are expected to mitigate but DPS have mitigation at the healers expense

I said it in a different post but trying to remove responsibility from the healer is ultimately a futile prospect because you’ll never change people’s perception that all mistakes are caused by the healer. Giving DPS half the mitigation didn’t make people go “okay we undermitigated this let’s discuss who is responsible” it just made it so people still blame the healer like they always have but now half the time the healer isn’t even responsible which isn’t remotely fun for the healer

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Who hurt you?

Honestly why do i even bother

Also this means.. for the sake of argument, healers are responsible for 70% of the total healing, mitigation and damage absorption from shields (i consider that mitigation but semantics) combined total for both healers both tanks do 17.5% of total combined healing and mitigation and DPS do a whopping 12.5%

This is probably why healers get blamed as they hold a vast majority of the total healing responsibilities.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

Also this means.. for the sake of argument, healers are responsible for 70% of the total healing, mitigation and damage absorption from shields (i consider that mitigation but semantics) combined total for both healers both tanks do 17.5% of total combined healing and mitigation and DPS do a whopping 12.5%

This is probably why healers get blamed as they hold a vast majority of the total healing responsibilities.

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Literally 3 posts ago you just pointed out that healers only have about 40% of the mitigation responsibility. You can’t heal your way through every mechanic being pass or fail on mitigation

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Literally 3 posts ago you just pointed out that healers only have about 40% of the mitigation responsibility. You can’t heal your way through every mechanic being pass or fail on mitigation

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That was only mitigation, which is half the total healing.

Also this is looking only at a fight in its entirety, not individual mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

That was only mitigation, which is half the total healing.

Also this is looking only at a fight in its entirety, not individual mechanics.

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Yes and that’s the point, when you have 40% of the mitigation but 100% of the blame for poor mitigation it’s not exactly fun to deal with, nobody wants to be blamed as the healer because the DPS decided they randomly decided they didn’t want to press addle

Savage hasn’t had a proper healing check that doesn’t devolve into stacking (or failing to stack) excessive mitigation since j waves was current content. It’s why nobody complains about Garuda cleanses, because at level 70 the responsibility is actually on the healer to heal, not everyone else to mitigate and it’s balanced as such

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Yes and that’s the point, when you have 40% of the mitigation but 100% of the blame for poor mitigation it’s not exactly fun to deal with, nobody wants to be blamed as the healer because the DPS decided they randomly decided they didn’t want to press addle

Savage hasn’t had a proper healing check that doesn’t devolve into stacking (or failing to stack) excessive mitigation since j waves was current content. It’s why nobody complains about Garuda cleanses, because at level 70 the responsibility is actually on the healer to heal, not everyone else to mitigate and it’s balanced as such

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I can only speak for myself when I say I use my mitigations as a DPS.

DPS get blamed when you don't meet a DPS check or use any mits (yes, it's discussed, at least here on Aether)

Tanks get blamed when they get one shot, don't tank swap, position the boss poorly, don't do a count down properly, have a dumb adventure plate, don't use mitigation or have terrible DPS

I mean, I get not wanting to be healer, it's why I don't play it in savage. I've considered jumping into a Learning fresh party on it, but players are salty and kinda turns me off to it.

As far as my own experience on Aether goes it's usually tanks/dps overwriting eachother's mits and it being on cooldown by the next raidwide.

I get MT gets first reprisal but is there some common rule for dps?

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

As far as my own experience on Aether goes it's usually tanks/dps overwriting eachother's mits and it being on cooldown by the next raidwide.

I get MT gets first reprisal but is there some common rule for dps?

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In my experience as a Bard, the rule for dps is ‘use all your buffs exactly 1 second after the other Bard so you overwrite every single one of the buffs and waste all their cool downs’ lol…I refuse to believe people aren’t doing it intentionally at this point (to what end I have no idea lol).