Dawntrail's 8-man raid discussion

The raid is better than the MSQ. Enough said

Most fun I've had in normal raids, and the story was far more neat than the MSQ already. I kept getting scared wuk lamat might pop up but thankfully she never did. The characters had some personality, loved the commentary during matches. Look forward to finding out more about what's going on in this story.

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Originally Posted by Roda

I love love love the reactive announcer calls!

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I forgot all about that, there's a large number of different calls as well, from ring-outs to KOs to being hit with tank busters. It makes it feel much more alive.

This is legitimately the best normal raid tier they've ever released. I've never had so much fun running them. Keep it up, encounter design team

I still consider Omega the best of breed when it comes to raids in this game, but this is much better than Pandemonium or Eden so far.

First and foremost, I'm not here defending the raid at all. I completely understand if some people don't like it or isn't their cup of tea. I only wanted to comment on one particular criticism / possible criticism (no one made a big deal out of it or anything, it's just the comments I read) about difficulty.

1. I one shotted it / I did all the mechanics / We cleared on first blind run: I don't understand why this is a bad thing in a normal raid. I've always been of the mind and I've read many times that one of the points of a good raid are clear telegraphs. I don't see how one shotting a normal raid fight is any barometer of quality of a fight due to difficulty if the fight teaches us how to do it. Personally, I was carried through the last 3 fights lol. Even though I knew and saw the mechanics, I kept making poor decisions regarding which mechanic to deal with first and chose poorly. Most of the fights I did half the party was dead and I had to res the healers multiple times to keep the fight from wiping. I'm thinking, after reading the forums, I'm honestly just not at the caliber of player I often read from responses here. I struggle to heal through mechanics and pulls sometimes during DT. I've seen so many Worqor farm parties break b/c the healers couldn't keep up with the damage. I see players struggling and having fun with the struggle. I also feel that the difficulty of a fight really largely depends on your party and how well everyone else is doing. If you get into a knowledgeable party you're going to have a really easy time and can just focus on mechanics. If you have a party struggling, your attention is going to be split and it'll be more of a challenge. I think the fights are a wonderful level of challenge for roulettes and normal raids. I don't need to watch a guide, I just need to watch the boss and my feet.

2. BLMs and casters struggling with movement: I totally see this as a problem, especially with positionals for melee. I truly hope they get rid of positionals at this point. Positionals are a relic from 1.x to try to spice the game up, it's seriously not needed and holds back the bosses designs imo. Either way, I absolutely understand this issue and I hope SE is listening to make the JOB more innovative instead of nerfing future fights.

Good or bad, it's been a blast to read people's reactions. There are so many incredibly fun aspects to each fight for me; music, designs, mechanics, announcer, zones. These are definitely my favorite raids in the entire game so far. Like or dislike, I really enjoy seeing other people's perspectives on these fights!

For me, apart from the fight, it was perfectly forgettable.

The raid story is annoying, the characters boring, the BGMs apart from the last one annoying... Annoying raid gear, we're going to have a resurgence of tasteless, shirtless fans. Say SE for me, a tank is made of plate, where's the plate?

At least it goes in the direction of some parts of the MSQ ... Maybe I was expecting too much, especially for glam and the good BGMs of Pandemonium and earlier.

In the end, after hearing it once, I cut the BGMs and put my own music on... -_-'...

Yes, it makes you dream, doesn't it?
https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/2a...png?1721115846

It's a maudlin cliché with the little girl and the BGM between sad and happy, it's too much for me. And you can see it coming from afar that the 4th would be the sister, damn she spawned, I'm... surprised? -_-'...

And one of the bosses in magical girl mode with a Titania-type BGM, not for me...

Why am I complaining so much, when I wasn't expecting anything? Well, for me, a new expansion and raid means a new Glam, a new orchestrion that would have made me want to farm to get them, and I've already made my 450 tomestones while farming something I wanted... The thing is, I don't do Ex and savage trials, they don't interest me, it's glam and housing that I do and PvE for fun. Sometimes I do Ex for the glam players I like, like WoL and Haedelyn, but Haedelyn's SGE weapon is still the best skin I've ever had.

And now it's thanks and goodbye, see you at the next reset.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentOxen

The raid is better than the MSQ. Enough said

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Definitely delivers the fun aspect that was missing from the MSQ.

I can't wait to see savage raiders slowly loosing their mind with the second fight music and aesthetics, after they wipe countless time on it.

What an absolute amazing raid tier, great music for each stage the dynamic commentary from the Jim Ross character was amazing, the plot was enticing
And the second coming of Riqi-Tio

Extremely fun first raid tier with my only criticism of it being how SE keeps relying on half-room cleaves for filler mechanics. M3 for the first half was just half-room cleaves, to the point of me sat there going ''can he do something else?''. M4 is ironically the worst out of the four fights given how 90% of the mechanics are just half-room cleaves or generic party stacks.

M2 is by far the best fight of this tier and was a blast to play as healer when everyone is just messing up and bringing chaos.

Third Fight:

"And in this corner, with a weight of 1200 pounds and a temperature of 2000°F, he is mean, he makes a scene, he is an rumbling bumbling exploding machine! The Brute Bomber!
Ladies and Gentlehyurs. From the Archadion here in Solution 9...LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLEEEEEEEEEE!"

Does anybody else get the impression that the caller/lalafell is voiced by Yoshi P in Japanese? He sounds so much like when Yoshi shouts on event stages to me but perhaps my ears are just wholly confused...

Also, I really like Yaana. I care more about her after 4 quests than about most DT MSQ characters.

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Originally Posted by djc

It was definitely a fun bunch of raids with and some fresh looking mechanics, but in the first three at least there wasn't really anything new or challenging. One-shotted with random JP players on DF. The last one caught us by surprise when she rocketed the arena, though that was only a wipe because both healers died. I'm looking forward to savage though!

The music on the 4th was pretty forgettable though. Ran it 5 times due to bad luck with rolls and yeah, it didn't stick.

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that song became grating to my ears as soon as the chorus hit and i hate it lol /bgm 0 on entry every time from now on

Can't wait for the community to start begging for the announcer to stop pointing out when they die.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Can't wait for the community to start begging for the announcer to stop pointing out when they die.

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And the other half of the community going "Just don't die, then."

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Can't wait for the community to start begging for the announcer to stop pointing out when they die.

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Huge missed opportunity for custom announcers on reclears/savage. Where's the Zenos voice pack SE? I don't care if it's non-canon.

The lines write themselves, come onnnnnnnnnnnnn.

"If I wasn't dead, I'd be in there myself."
Or or, when someone gets knocked off for the fifth time.
"You're beginning to bore me."
Or or or, when you get charmed, he could be like.
"Are you influenced by such banal desires?"

Man, this expansion was a solid 4/10 for me before raids, but it seems there's a small spark remaining for me somewhere deep inside, I suppose. Encounter team, keep carrying, please.

I love Honey B Lovely. She alone makes up for Wuk Lamat.

Honestly was grinning ear to ear with it just being one big wrestling scene. I hope one of the weapons is literally just a steel chair.

yeah i already prefer the Raid story over the MSQ, and all fights are voiced, big win for me

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I feel like this raid tier is being overhyped. The combat is great but come on. This is no Eden raid or even Pandaemonium. At least not in terms of a complete package.

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I mean, in terms of normal raids, in my opinion it's on par with Eden's first tier and superior to Pandaemonium's first tier. I think Panda's first tier only had 1 fight I liked in it and well, I think we know how much the community absolutely loved P3. What makes or breaks it will be how the savage tiers stack up. Eden first savage tier will be tough to beat, but I don't think it's going to be all that hard to beat Panda's. Obviously this is all subjective, that's just how things are looking atm for me.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

The fact that the fights even got me to consider coming out of raid retirement for Savage is a huge compliment, since even Ultimate wasn't doing it.

Story is just Chapter 3 from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door and I am absolutely here for it.

This was enjoyable overall. A direct hit. Honey B Lovely, I have high expectations for your fight.

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Final final boss of the raid series will be The Great Gonzales, please look forward to it.

all i did was chain die on picto.... I have no idea how i even died sometimes a couple of us just go instant splat. I am not at all interested in continuing it. The scenery is very nice and so is the boss design, but what is the purpose of it all? Who is the target audience of this I don't like wrestling etc. Its some weird anime thing they just tossed in its like they want the game to be something else entirely. Why are the rewards kinky bondage armor? None of these themes go together. Its like the marketing team gave them mandates and told them to throw all this stuff together.

Breath of fresh air after the msq!

Good fights. Good mechanics. Good bgm. Good story. No annoying character (so far)

I'm taking savage off this tier but damn these fights almost make me want to reconsider that decision. I've had so much fun with these fights (especially on pictomancer since it's still absolutely broken lol)! I'm very excited to see where the rest of this raid series will go because as of right now it's a huge step up from what pandy gave us.

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Originally Posted by Astronema

all i did was chain die on picto.... I have no idea how i even died sometimes a couple of us just go instant splat. I am not at all interested in continuing it. The scenery is very nice and so is the boss design, but what is the purpose of it all? Who is the target audience of this I don't like wrestling etc. Its some weird anime thing they just tossed in its like they want the game to be something else entirely. Why are the rewards kinky bondage armor? None of these themes go together. Its like the marketing team gave them mandates and told them to throw all this stuff together.

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It seems they're aiming for a wrestling theme, and besides, you can always opt for crafted gear or simply glam it up (my Vanguard gear glam will remain, no matter what). Trust me, I've seen much worse in my gaming days. I believe Savage will bee intense, especially the first, second, and fourth battles. Hone your slidecasting skills, because we're all going to need them.

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Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

and all fights are voiced, big win for me

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And every fight has a unique song! That's not been done before, if I'm not mistaken

What I thought about it was I felt like I joined the WWE and was waiting for someone to come out with a chair for a weapon.

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

And every fight has a unique song! That's not been done before, if I'm not mistaken

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Even if the third fight wasnt my cup of tea in OST, I very much enjoyed that there were 4 songs. Im glad they took the extra mile to give more ambience to each fight

I'm definitely looking forward to savage. This raid tier seems like a return to form in terms of fight design. It reminds me of Eden. Smaller hitboxes and uptime isn't completely free. Seems like there will be a lot more room for optimisation and skill expression. Ew's savage tiers felt a lot like hitting a training dummy for 10 minutes once you'd cleared a few times.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I feel like this raid tier is being overhyped. The combat is great but come on. This is no Eden raid or even Pandaemonium. At least not in terms of a complete package.

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Kinda hard to judge a tier before savage, but right now who care? The most important right now is ... it fit the supposed theme of the expansion. I was laughing through out all the fights, and that in itself is great. Also it got everything that the MSQ got wrong:

- Fun, hilarious, and entertaining like a vacation.

- Great VA (who could have thought!)

- No annoying characters.

- No Wuk Lamat!

Who thought it would be that simple to delivery a win. It's almost feel like a different team comparing to the one that tortured us in the MSQ. Endwalker had great MSQ but a bad post story content cycle, so here hoping we gonna have the reverse of that.

Black Cat was fine for the 1st boss
Didn't particularly care for Honey Bee. The only noteworthy mechanic is her charm ability but otherwise, the fight itself is largely unremarkable
Bomber Man is the worst of the bunch IMO. No challenge at all and basic dodge the AoE mechanics.
Wicked Thunder was the best of the bunch and it's not even close.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

But against the story and characters of Eden/Panda this one doesn't stand a chance imo.

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I don't care much about that comparison tbh. Just because I had a good steak doesn't mean from then on it's impossible to enjoy a burger. DT's msq sucks wasn't because it's not a steak, but because it's a VERY bad burger by itself. I didn't come into DT expecting a steak, I know I was promised a burger, and the raid tier is decent burger. If I go about comparing every meal I ate to the single best of my life, I think that would be miserable for me.

After wiping M4 for an hour due to the healer checks I can say I feel both pain and elation. It's been a while since Normal Content needed some effort.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

The mechanics had me smiling ear to ear! I kept saying to myself - "You tricked me! What do you mean it's not just a pattern to be followed...

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Outside of the "jog around like a madman" hearts mechanic (which we've seen before on a FATE boss in Bozja), it's very much a pattern to be followed. Did we play the same raid?!

Also the story is pretty weak so far. Corrupt businessman hides negative side effects of beast soul use to make cash and one kitten wants to kill you to ensure her own survival.

It's pretty bleh and to be honest: I find it insulting that they go out and make my character put her life on the line just for some random people's entertainment.

That is NOT the WoL I play.

In terms of presentation of the fights, this might be the best raid tier they have ever done. Love the music, love the voices, love the visuals. I also greatly appreciate a slightly higher difficulty level. My one complaint is that at this point half-room cleaves have become one of the most overused and stale mechanics in the game, and THREE bosses in this tier use them, with the latter two having them as more or less their primary mechanic. The first two bosses are great, but please stop relying on half room cleaves so much.

It's not just this tier, there's so many dungeon bosses that use them and in Endwalker they were everywhere as well. We've all seen left/right and in/out so many times by now that it's just not interesting anymore, they've exhausted every possible permutation of these mechanics. More new stuff like the Black Cat floor panels and Honey Bee hearts, please!

I quite enjoyed all of the raid so far. I was hoping the sister would show up later on but with the story about the disease it could lead to something interesting. Later still could of worked to appear to challenge us.

10/10 on the fight,npcs and music though


My only gripe is the awful colouring for the healer gear. Yes it is traditional whitemage colors but I would of liked something more in theme with the rest of the sets.It stands out like a sore thumb. They gave us dark coloring for the gimp coat at least while also being dyeable.

I was looking forward for savage and had found a group but I just had to notify them that it wouldn't be happening. The first normal boss was quite easy despite the awful glowy floor. The 2nd, I can't even comment on the difficulty and mechanics as I had to abandon not even mid fight given that I suddenly felt really ill (started with the cutscene) from the visual effects. I even threw up a few minutes later and about an hour later I still have a massive headache. The visuals are not ok. I never had such a reaction in any game before and I've been gaming since 3 decades (I had a few reactions in this game but not as fast). You'd think a company like SE would have advisors concerning those things.

Storywise, I also find it stupid that my WoL suddenly lowers herself to arena fighting.

Waaaay better than I expected! The honey bee fight was my favorite, both mechanically and the overall visuals/music. Love that the announcer is voiced, its such a cute little thing that actually makes it feel like a tournament :o

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Waaaay better than I expected! The honey bee fight was my favorite, both mechanically and the overall visuals/music. Love that the announcer is voiced, its such a cute little thing that actually makes it feel like a tournament :o

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And that they actually react to shit like people dying, LB being used, etc. I've been enjoying the reactive commentary this expansion like when Gulool asks if we've ever seen viper style/comments on us knowing viper style depending on if you'd levelled one yet.