Wuk Lamat & DT Story are the best for the FFXIV-Story

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Originally Posted by Karkarov

In fact her being there if anything is a hindrance to me "hearing, feeling, and thinking" because how can I when every five minutes she opens her mouth to repeat the same nonsense she has been saying since the last Endwalker patch?

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Honestly that is so bad. She ruined Venat's words that have been resonating with us all these years. They had such a beautiful and deep meaning that moved me to tears in EW.


Now they are just cringe.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

Oh I swear the story gets worse the more you think about it, I didn't consider this until now...

Why are there bandits in the wild west town?

...Because it's a wild west town... They just.. spawn in naturally I guess.

My god it's all just tropes, isn't it?

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Yeap. I hated the wild west area despite no Wuk Lamat simply because even there the WoL was denied agency, somehow Wuk Lamat even when not present was inserted into the plot, and everything that happens there is a massively insulting trope. The only positives of that part of the story is Estinien's 30 seconds of presence, and the call back to the shadow bringers trolley guys.

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Originally Posted by Karkarov

Yeap. I hated the wild west area despite no Wuk Lamat simply because even there the WoL was denied agency, somehow Wuk Lamat even when not present was inserted into the plot, and everything that happens there is a massively insulting trope. The only positives of that part of the story is Estinien's 30 seconds of presence, and the call back to the shadow bringers trolley guys.

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Seeing a glimpse of Estinien clearly having a better time than me and then being told to go collect poop... I knew I was the butt of the joke of this expansion by then.

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Originally Posted by Sharie

Nobody can tell me with a Straight Face, that Wuk Lamat is a objectively Good Character if yes, either you're just Lying or think something like Disney Star Wars or Post Endgame Marvel is Good

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Here to burst your bubble. Disney Star Wars is a disaster and Wuk Lamat is a good character and I like her. I also love the story. Dunno much about Marvel as I don’t watch superhero stuff. Not trolling with this. Maybe it’s time for you to accept there’s people with different taste and opinions. Peace.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

I really liked Wuk Lamat. After all the depressing things that have happened to our character the last two expansions, her bubbly personality was a refreshing change. Much as I like the scions, they all feel like colleagues rather than friends (other than Estinien). Wuk Lamat feels like a buddy for our WoL and I enjoyed it.

As for the story...
https://i.imgur.com/z3CeG36.jpg

The Warrior of Light's time is over. We're Azem now. We're carrying out the mandate Emet-Selch left us. And that includes helping people. Azem wasn't the convocation's blunt weapon like the Warrior of Light has been for 10 years. If we had done everything for Wuk Lamat, people would be still be bitching. Instead we see her get agency throughout the story. We stand back and watch our friend succeed.

Honestly, I feel a bit like Gandalf now.

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Wasn't the whole point of Endwalker that we need to forge our own path, rather than trying to recapture the past? That's why we were sundered in the first place, and why Hydaelyn wouldn't let the convocation preform the last sacrifice. We're not Azem, but we're now aware that it's in our very nature to explore and help people. That's the reason why the Warrior of Light acts that way, not the motivation.

Also, I don't have an issue if Lamat has agency, but fuck's sake, Might I have a crumb of that too please? She has her grubby little paws in everything we do. Doesn't matter if I refuse to use trusts, she still gets the keystone for killing Valigarmanda, and no one even mentions that I did anything. We never go off to help people without her being the driving force of everything. This was the biggest narrative reason for the Echo for the longest time. We were the only one to be able to kill primals without getting tempered, so even if other characters have significant impact, we never lose our importance. Shadowbringers doubled down on that by having everything revolve around the blessing of light. Endwalker chose to switch focus to our overwhelming strength and will as what makes us special by curing and preventing tempering. The point being that there's always something to make us important until now.
Take away Lamat's axe, or give her more daily responsibilities as Dawnservant's daughter. Give her more of a role similar to the Crystal Exarch, where she guides us from afar, and occasionally pops in to help, while we do most of the legwork, and the hard hitting. That way it feels like our story, she still has an important role, and doesn't have to be in every scene.

The Valigarmanda debriefing is a pretty egregious moment. Of course there's the characters, and maybe the writers, forgetting that killing godlike beings was WoL's actual day job for like 5 expansions and having them around now might have contributed just a bit.

But even disregarding that, it's just an inexplicably deflating choice to have the player do something cool and immediately turn around and say "actually you didn't do anything, daddy already loosened the jar for you".

And it's super weird that they still in other places do play lip-service to the idea WoL is the most capable person around, but it either doesn't matter because it's a mock duel or we immediately prove that wrong by acting all passive and useless. So why not instead have that acknowledgment in the moment where we actually do what we do best?

Good worldbuilding and Wut Lamat a good character? My ass.

The worldbuilding it's just gone, you do a few quests that revolves around Wut Lamat not knowing shit about her people despite wanting peace and saying they all can understand each other, when she doesn't even know her brother, or his motivations or anything. Not to say Gullol Ja Ja let's to participate an arrogant asshole, which claims all the time he doesn't care about anything. A Parent that all the continen so much happens that loves dearly because he united them wanting to know about all the other cultures and the people, who NEVER took their sons to cultivate these believes and teach them the cultures of other people, not telling a thing about how he handled the inner conflicts. He let's his ass sitting in a throne, letting his own child grow without taking care of him or suspecting something is wrong, and then, one day, he decides is time for his children to go educate themselves without any guide and using a competition as an excuse, to search about the golden city which, was not important at all for the goal: growing and learning something, he as parent should have done long before when they were children, and unify his children in the bond of family the same he united all the continent. This my friends, is bad writting. And this is just the beginning. I could continue on and on in every aspect of Wuk Lamat and the main things that happened to her or the WoL, but I am just not gonna do it.

What makes me so fucking angry, is that no matter which plot is the important matter in the moment, Erenville is suffering, Erenville is suspecting things, Krile is confused, Krile is a mistery unknown, but you know what? We have our ass glued to Wuk Lamat in ALL THE QUESTS. ALL THE MOMENTS. No matter if the important stuff is Erenville or Krile, we are always with her. We can't know more of the suffering of Erenville or talk to Krile, our dear friend, in private. No matter what, Wuk is the center, even if the story revolves around Erenville and his mother, we go with her, Koana and the child. When in this very moment, the important was to go with Erenville, who, let me tell you, knew before Wuk Lamat. And also go to talk and have our moments with Krile and talking with her about what she feels about her origins and her parents, etc etc etc. This fucking Wuk Lamat character ruins everything there is good in the story. EVERYTHING.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

I really liked Wuk Lamat. After all the depressing things that have happened to our character the last two expansions, her bubbly personality was a refreshing change. Much as I like the scions, they all feel like colleagues rather than friends (other than Estinien). Wuk Lamat feels like a buddy for our WoL and I enjoyed it.

As for the story...
https://i.imgur.com/z3CeG36.jpg

The Warrior of Light's time is over. We're Azem now. We're carrying out the mandate Emet-Selch left us. And that includes helping people. Azem wasn't the convocation's blunt weapon like the Warrior of Light has been for 10 years. If we had done everything for Wuk Lamat, people would be still be bitching. Instead we see her get agency throughout the story. We stand back and watch our friend succeed.

Honestly, I feel a bit like Gandalf now.

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This is how I feel as well. Not just in-game but irl has been rough too for a couple of years. There has been too much sickness and death. I couldn't even bring myself to play MMORPG games at all and I had to catch up to play Dawntrail.

I'm thoroughly enjoying Wuk Lamat and the exploration of a new area and new people. I love how she keeps learning and growing. I'm enjoying how light things feel before the darkness hits again. It brings me back to FFXIV: ARR and its launch and why I fell in love with the game in the first place. The entire beginning was based on coming back from a calamity and just enjoying the world which eventually grew into the reasons for the calamity that we had to deal with. It took 10 years to tell that tale in full.

Plus, it's supposed to be a break between what was and what is to come. There isn't any continuation to build on. It's a new beginning and I can't wait to see where the next story arc takes us!

In the meantime, I'm taking my time and enjoying the story. The more I see of Wuk Lamat, the more I like her. To each to their own, I guess.

...You know that we are cannonically the strongest warrior in all Hydaelyn, right? I mean, the whole point of Zenos bringing over the Endsinger to the Star was so we killed the strongest being known and thus we took its place as strongest being, so Zenos could have a good fight.

I'm not usually one to leave reviews.

I absolutely loved Dawntrail, and Wuk Lamat was adorable and had a nice character progression.

Thank you. Absolutely fantastic worldbuilding, story progression, story surprises, FF feel, real consequences to the Source, and immersive locations.



I think some of these gamers are impatient and haven't read a book in awhile to remember how a storybook works. The story almost felt Zen in its progression. It breathed in an understated way that was very enjoyable, and the last 1/6 of the story had my party VERY invested and frequently at the edge of our seats.

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Originally Posted by Kasasagi

No.

I'm only at level 95. So far everything is as I described. And I don't think anything will change. Even if there are indications of something different. I don't think it's anything on the level of ShB or EW. It's the beginning of a new arc.

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I'm just imagining this dude's shocked pikachu faced when he gets to the fifth zone.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

I really liked Wuk Lamat. After all the depressing things that have happened to our character the last two expansions, her bubbly personality was a refreshing change. Much as I like the scions, they all feel like colleagues rather than friends (other than Estinien). Wuk Lamat feels like a buddy for our WoL and I enjoyed it.

As for the story...
https://i.imgur.com/z3CeG36.jpg

The Warrior of Light's time is over. We're Azem now. We're carrying out the mandate Emet-Selch left us. And that includes helping people. Azem wasn't the convocation's blunt weapon like the Warrior of Light has been for 10 years. If we had done everything for Wuk Lamat, people would be still be bitching. Instead we see her get agency throughout the story. We stand back and watch our friend succeed.

Honestly, I feel a bit like Gandalf now.

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I...like this thought actually. Azem wasn't just a weapon. I think what threw me in the second half of the expansion was the expectation that Wuk would be taking a beat seat in favour of the greater mystery of the golden city. When she took over again, I got frustrated. Thanks for the perspective, that helps a lot actually. I think I might redo the last zone or two with that mindset.

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Originally Posted by Aldath

...You know that we are cannonically the strongest warrior in all Hydaelyn, right? I mean, the whole point of Zenos bringing over the Endsinger to the Star was so we killed the strongest being known and thus we took its place as strongest being, so Zenos could have a good fight.

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Well thanks to Dynamis, we can grow to be universal levels of strong when it comes to protecting everyone and everything we love, then dropping down to manageable levels of power when facing Gulool Ja Ja for example.
I'm a bit lukewarm on the concept, but understand that it was at least somewhat necessary to not keep spectacle creeping every expansion.

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Originally Posted by Gelsey

I think some of these gamers are impatient and haven't read a book in awhile to remember how a storybook works.

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Yeah, storybook is right. Most of us are adults who don't read literature intended for children. Most of us have grown past that and prefer writing with substance. Glad you enjoyed it though!

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Originally Posted by DrForester

I really liked Wuk Lamat. After all the depressing things that have happened to our character the last two expansions, her bubbly personality was a refreshing change. Much as I like the scions, they all feel like colleagues rather than friends (other than Estinien). Wuk Lamat feels like a buddy for our WoL and I enjoyed it.

As for the story...
https://i.imgur.com/z3CeG36.jpg

The Warrior of Light's time is over. We're Azem now. We're carrying out the mandate Emet-Selch left us. And that includes helping people. Azem wasn't the convocation's blunt weapon like the Warrior of Light has been for 10 years. If we had done everything for Wuk Lamat, people would be still be bitching. Instead we see her get agency throughout the story. We stand back and watch our friend succeed.

Honestly, I feel a bit like Gandalf now.

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I cannot agree with this. When given the choice to participate in the Ancient Civil War, on the Venat or the Convocation side, Azem deliberately did not choose a side and abandoned the seat, because when making a choice of the "lesser evil", Azem would say "The question itself is flawed. I'm not participating, I am finding a different way." Which is probably what the "Key" is. We are a disgrace to the seat, and I know the perspective I'm talking about is one that is known, because of the 6.1 Omega quest. You are given the choice with the Watcher to say, Emet was right (I disagree), Venat was right (I disagree), Hermes was right (You're a lunatic if you say he was right), or NO ONE was right, which I think is the choice Azem picked, and the one I think makes the most thematic sense for our character as the inheritor of their crystal, that when it comes to situations that are incredibly dubious like this, a new path needs to be paved rather than choosing the predetermined options. Something something indolence, ones that we can conceivably save etc etc

How am I anything but a Weapon of Light still? I didn't get to explore with Estinien and fix problems along the way. The closest thing I got to that was with Erenville, until Wuk Lamat shows up again and centralizes the entire plot on her again. I wasn't allowed to do anything but turn the terminals off.

Because of the actions of the writer, both in terms of the circumstances of the Endless and what we're forced to do, we're a disgrace to Azem's legacy. Instead of having the Endless obviously be non-sentient in a Groundhog's Day infinite repeating hellscape, like true automatons with zero agency, we spend hours getting to know them and see them practice their agency, much like we get to know the dynamis beings in Ultima Thule. Killing them at that point would've been seen as a mercy. Rather than have the clearly sentient citizenry appeal to Queen Sphene herself, and tell her this isn't something that they want at the cost of the other shards, and I don't know, turn themselves off, it's us who make the unilateral choice for the entire populace. Maybe that seemingly contradictory solution, the self-sacrifice of the Endless in spite of, or perhaps even because of the love of their Queen(not willing to see her become an omnicidal war criminal), would debuff Sphene, shaking her resolve at last. Maybe that's something that could've been the final phase of the fight instead of Wuk Lamat soloing her on her special little platform, out DPSing the entire party and ignoring mechanics while still screaming about friendship instead of practical solutions.

I played Nier. I was ALWAYS going to be sympathetic to a Replicant's or an Android's plight.

We're something alright, but we are not Azem.
Azem would have never let this happen.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

I cannot agree with this. When given the choice to participate in the Ancient Civil War, on the Venat or the Convocation side, Azem deliberately did not choose a side and abandoned the seat, because when making a choice of the "lesser evil", Azem would say "The question itself is flawed. I'm not participating, I am finding a different way." Which is probably what the "Key" is. We are a disgrace to the seat, and I know the perspective I'm talking about is one that is known, because of the 6.1 Omega quest. You are given the choice with the Watcher to say, Emet was right (I disagree), Venat was right (I disagree), Hermes was right (You're a lunatic if you say he was right), or NO ONE was right, which I think is the choice Azem picked, and the one I think makes the most thematic sense for our character as the inheritor of their crystal, that when it comes to situations that are incredibly dubious like this, a new path needs to be paved rather than choosing the predetermined options. Something something indolence, ones that we can conceivably save etc etc

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We still don't know why Azem did what he did. For all we know (and I think this is the most likely) he agreed with Venat, and needed to be sundered so his successor could have a chance at fixing the final days.

Why someone would willingly choose to come to the forums to give their opinion on an expansion's story when they are halfway through said expansion is truly mind-boggling. No one can tell you otherwise because they would be spoiling you and are trying to be polite. This would be like watching the first three seasons of Game of Thrones then telling people who hated Season 8 that they are wrong. It's just insanity.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

Oh I swear the story gets worse the more you think about it, I didn't consider this until now...

Why are there bandits in the wild west town?

...Because it's a wild west town... They just.. spawn in naturally I guess.

My god it's all just tropes, isn't it?

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The tropes themselves aren't what's failing. Every story is just tropes, really, that's even how they came to be. Tropes just fall apart when that's the only layer you have, and when tropes fall apart we become hyper aware of them. Xenos is even our Lancer trope.

And when tropes fall apart you start to question other things because you no longer have anything else to think about. Like which head on the 2 headed mamool controls the body? Why does it seem like both we see are controlled by the "warrior" heads and the secondary heads have no autonomy? And many other questions we'd otherwise have suspended out disbelief from. When tropes are only skin deep, we have nothing to believe in to suspend that disbelief. The story falls flat.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

The Warrior of Light's time is over. We're Azem now. We're carrying out the mandate Emet-Selch left us. And that includes helping people. Azem wasn't the convocation's blunt weapon like the Warrior of Light has been for 10 years. If we had done everything for Wuk Lamat, people would be still be bitching. Instead we see her get agency throughout the story. We stand back and watch our friend succeed.
Honestly, I feel a bit like Gandalf now.

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That would've been so cool to see if they had actually competently written that and not just put Wuk Lamat front and center in every single cutscene, with her constantly chiming in and giving unqualified opinions or childish pep-talk. Even at the last trial she comes in, steals the spotlight, gives you HER buff and yaps until the boss is dead. What gives? Let me have my "this is too deadly for anyone but the WoL" moment.

Some people says dt and wuk lamat sucks and its garbage like okay good for you to skip every cutscenes and not knowing whats going on xD for me personally in my opinion, i enjoyed it a whole lot. The story was fucking amazing it brought to the edge of my seat. I just wanna thank Yoshi-P and the devs for making my 7.0 an amazing journey :)

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Originally Posted by Kasasagi

I thought a lot about the story of Dawntrail and Wuk Lamat.

And yes, those of you who complain about not liking the story and wuk lamat. Here's the big news. The WoL is just a big number in Aldenard, Ilsabard and Othard. In Tural, the WoL is just some strong warrior across the sea. Nothing more, nothing less.


But why is Wuk Lamat and the story so good?

Because of worldbuilding. We learn about Tural through Wuk Lamat. She is our guide through the story. But the most important question here is what is the story of Dawntrail?

The central theme is family. Not just in the MSQ but also in the role quests. Everything is about family. Wuk Lamat, Bakool Yes Yes, the characters from the role quests and also the WoL and the scions.

Oh and why Wuk Lamat and the DT story are the best for FFXIV? Because it's a recovery from the world-threatening events of Shadowbringer and Endwalker. I'm glad we don't have the next everything-destroying supervillain right away. Shadowbringer and Endwalker were only so good because of ARR, HW and SB. They were able to build on what was there before. Dawntrail tells a new story.

So that's my opinion. Have fun in Dawntrail and be kind to each other.

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Can't believe no ones done it yet but:
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.2526...000,f8f8f8.jpg

On topic, im in the 5th area and still very much enjoying my time with FF, glad to see others who are aswell :)

I agree , it's the best thing for a retrospection on how bad writing can ruin an entire experience.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Can't believe no ones done it yet but:
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.2526...000,f8f8f8.jpg

On topic, im in the 5th area and still very much enjoying my time with FF, glad to see others who are aswell :)

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We desperately need some high quality Vin Diesel/Wuk Lamat "family" memes. I am too lazy to make them though.

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Originally Posted by Tulvi

Here to burst your bubble. Disney Star Wars is a disaster and Wuk Lamat is a good character and I like her. I also love the story. Dunno much about Marvel as I don’t watch superhero stuff. Not trolling with this. Maybe it’s time for you to accept there’s people with different taste and opinions. Peace.

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Here to burst YOUR bubble. Doesnt mean your opinion is good. Infact,its not :) Terrible character and story.

Dungeons, Trials, etc are great. The story and Wuk Lamat? Absolutely trash... She has NO business being a leader of a country. At all. The Alchemist was infinitely more qualified and I hated how we had ZERO say in the whole thing.

I wish instead Dawntrail was done as an Musical/On Ice Show, that'll help with the story and pacing alot.