#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

For the sake of discussion, let's assume you could get the average player to join in on the strike. If healers truly aren't needed in content, why would a strike even get noticed? Players can pre-form their parties to avoid the Duty Finder role restrictions after all.

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If players end up in pre-form parties to avoid the queue times then the situation has become serious enough that the developers would need to take action as you cannot ignore the issue anymore. Now it's an issue that effects ALL roles instead of just healer. So even if you run content without healers it's a massive neon sign for all to see.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

I've also had the opposite where a tank couldn't manage cooldowns and died. So, which is it? Tank or healer issue?

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Everyone has responsibility but the healer can carry a group the hardest overall due to how overkill the current healing output is.

...That said, I'm still faulting the tank if I'm having to aggressively spam heals to keep them alive due to lack of mit usage and/or terrible gear because they're slowing the run down by denying me the ability to DPS.

I don't mind healing more when it's necessary for organic reasons, not ones inflicted by players being bad.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

I've also had the opposite where a tank couldn't manage cooldowns and died. So, which is it? Tank or healer issue?

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The reality is, some players will make mistakes. Some players have not yet learned the game well enough or understand the mechanics enough to make the right decisions. But blaming that on all tanks or all healers, or the design of tanks or healers is narrow-sighted. This is a game. That means you're going to fail once in a while, whether by your own hand or someone else's. Yet many players in FFXIV treat failure like it's a flaw in game design--that if the jobs were actually well designed, failure would be impossible, but that's insane.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Well, if it fizzles, it won't be because a lack of me trying. Made a more private twitter so that I can try and help spread the hashtag. I'd do it on my regular twitter but I would rather not reveal too much of my personal identity, not because I think it's problematic or anything, I just feel more safe that way. Do we want to make a discord or something?

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Anyone is welcome to start a Discord to support the strike if they would like. I'm a sprout when it comes to Discord, so someone with more experience with it would probably be better suited to initiate it. I'll definitely join it, for sure.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Get your tanks to stop using their active defensive and healing abilities. I was healing a tank that used 0 defensives through Tower of Zot the other night. Can't remember the last time I had to use so many GCD heals.

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So your solution to one role being worthless is to enforce everyone else to play badly?

Whatever floats your boat, but I'm going to just continue asking the dev team to actually design content worth playing a healer in.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

The reality is, some players will make mistakes. Some players have not yet learned the game well enough or understand the mechanics enough to make the right decisions. But blaming that on all tanks or all healers, or the design of tanks or healers is narrow-sighted. This is a game. That means you're going to fail once in a while, whether by your own hand or someone else's. Yet many players in FFXIV treat failure like it's a flaw in game design--that if the jobs were actually well designed, failure would be impossible, but that's insane.

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Agreed. I just feel like this dramatic response is just that.. drama for the sake of it.

I'm glad to see so many people actually in agreement with this. +1ing this thread.

Healer design objectively plummeted in Shadowbringers and somehow managed to only sink further down since. And while the lack of any meaningful (or fun-looking...) job changes in this expansion are all perplexing, the fact that they not only kept the overabundance of self-sustain on Tanks but also increased it is downright baffling. And AoE healing was added to more DPS? For what reason?

Even as somebody who has raided since Coil through to Abyssos (the long-term group of friends I've played with and myself all decided it became too dull to continue to Anabaseios), raiders have some of the most godawful opinions in this game. I sincerely wish all Tanks a very Deleted self-sustain and DPS a very Undeleted positionals.

Healers shouldn't have to suffer the vast majority of content being sleep-inducing so that it's easier for the savage and ultimate raiders' numbers to go up. The more I see how things are turning out, the more that late June release seems less and less worth it...

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Anyone is welcome to start a Discord to support the strike if they would like. I'm a sprout when it comes to Discord, so someone with more experience with it would probably be better suited to initiate it. I'll definitely join it, for sure.

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I am working on it, don't want it to be completely empty when people get here XD

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Originally Posted by Sensui

Agreed. I just feel like this dramatic response is just that.. drama for the sake of it.

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What would you suggest that hasn't already been tried before?

Honestly, I haven't been playing healers for a long time now, I didn't even bother clearing Anabaseios and TOP because I found the role just so unbearably boring.

But since people are starting a strike, I'll join it too. I was going to level healers to 100 and just leave them, but now I'll just not level healers through dungeons. I'll just level them through Frontlines roulette and Crystalline Conflict.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

What would you suggest that hasn't already been tried before?

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Play a game you enjoy.

Joining the strike

I mean creating drama is what gets results most the time...

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

I am working on it, don't want it to be completely empty when people get here XD

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Thank you for taking care of that! Unlike healing in DT, I'm looking forward to this. :p

My trusts won't notice the difference.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

My trusts won't notice the difference.

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*Y'shtola begrudgingly heals while still using her "Sorceress" DPS rotation*

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Originally Posted by Aravell

But since people are starting a strike, I'll join it too. I was going to level healers to 100 and just leave them, but now I'll just not level healers through dungeons. I'll just level them through Frontlines roulette and Crystalline Conflict.

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I'm curious if V&C dungeon finder will be a viable option as well. I didn't do variant dungeons much outside of the initial quests, and it would be great to wrap those up while leveling at the same time. Duty support and Trusts should also be an option to get them all to 100, and if worse comes to worse, FATE grinding in the new zones. We can knock out Shared FATE grinding simultaneously.

Odd. I'm actually looking forward to not healing in DT. It actually does feel liberating. It would be interesting to see that the game's most skilled healers are the ones that bounce, and to see what kind of reaction that would get if the game was left which a bunch of donut healers who are incompetent, leaving the tanks and DPS to try and take care of things on their own. I have no doubt that the healers who are the most frustrated are the ones with substance who truly value the role.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

*Y'shtola begrudgingly heals while still using her "Sorceress" DPS rotation*

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Or when Alisae has to heal her SGE brother on her RDM because he won't adjust.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm curious if V&C dungeon finder will be a viable option as well. I didn't do variant dungeons much outside of the initial quests, and it would be great to wrap those up while leveling at the same time. Duty support and Trusts should also be an option to get them all to 100, and if worse comes to worse, FATE grinding in the new zones. We can knock out Shared FATE grinding simultaneously.

Odd. I'm actually looking forward to not healing in DT. It actually does feel liberating. It would be interesting to see that the game's most skilled healers are the ones that bounce, and to see what kind of reaction that would get if the game was left which a bunch of donut healers who are incompetent, leaving the tanks and DPS to try and take care of things on their own. I have no doubt that the healers who are the most frustrated are the ones with substance who truly value the role.

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While on the topic of not healing, is there anyone who will be trying DPS for the first time? What job are you thinking of?

While I've played dancer quite a bit, and I do still enjoy it to some level, I'm thinking of trying Viper actually. Despite having virtually no interest in the concept until the job actions trailer, I think it's enshroud looks really cool and flashy, and it seems to be not quite as easy as Reaper, being somewhat similar to Samurai in a sense, but also much faster.

Mao sad. Mao really likes healers. Thems really great at keepings Mao whats BLMs alive. Mao very upset that healers nots having funs though.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

While on the topic of not healing, is there anyone who will be trying DPS for the first time? What job are you thinking of?

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I was fedup with the ongoing scholar simplification and party dynamics in Shadowbringers and decided to dps, picked up Red Mage, learned to play 14 with a controller with no regrets as I have enjoyed it.

I am very keen to pickup Viper and hopefully main after doing the story to 100 with redmage and of course my old scholar friend. It is liberating when letting go and I know that isn't for everyone but it keeps the game more enjoyable.

I'd love to support it but to be honest I've refused to ever level a healer in this game because they look dull.

Every other job I have maxed, I will never level a healer unless they fundamentally change them to look interesting to me. No I don't care about the content I miss by not having a healer leveled.

I'm still going to max out every job, but I won't be running roulettes as a healer outside of Frontline for the EXP. The reason is that I do find PVP healer to be fun. Mostly in CC matches but Frontline has its moments.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

While on the topic of not healing, is there anyone who will be trying DPS for the first time? What job are you thinking of?

While I've played dancer quite a bit, and I do still enjoy it to some level, I'm thinking of trying Viper actually. Despite having virtually no interest in the concept until the job actions trailer, I think it's enshroud looks really cool and flashy, and it seems to be not quite as easy as Reaper, being somewhat similar to Samurai in a sense, but also much faster.

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Definitely not my first go, but a big reason why I did pick up DPS jobs was due to my dissatisfaction at healing normal duties. There just isn't much to actually heal. In SB and ShB the Alliance Raids still provided a good amount of necessitated healing be it scripted or from player errors. EW though really killed it with how much sustain was given to WAR and the most laughably under-tuned Alliance Raid content to date. I don't know how they managed to release AR that are even less fun to do than CT raids, but they accomplished it in this expansion. World of Darkness is more difficult than any of the Myth of the Realm raids, and far more fun to do.

Lack of the need for healers in normal content is also what pushed me into doing EX, which started late SB. The requirement for healers just went through the roof, and my engagement and joy in the role was refreshed. However, this was mainly due to how much more players were eating it, and how punishing it became to fail mechanics. The closest to this in EW was Barb EX, which was the best EX fight they released this expansion. Nearly every other one are made difficult only because of body check mechanics, so one player eating dust basically screws over the whole party. Yay!!

I will be picking up Viper in DT as I do enjoy the melee DPS role. It will be interesting taking a back seat to healing. I know I will find myself in situations where I know I can help if I role as healer, but it is what it is. One of the reasons why I dropped RDM almost immediately after picking it up was because as a DPS I did not want to be burdened with healing support. I just wanted to kill the opposition. I would imagine that shoe-horning these responsibilities on tanks and DPS are not as favorable as they seem on paper if they have a similar mindset to my own.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

While on the topic of not healing, is there anyone who will be trying DPS for the first time? What job are you thinking of?

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I'm not new to the DPS role as I've been omni-role since HW (with preference to healers because SCH was so good back then), but I think I will start tanking more in DT so I can do my part in invalidating the new healers and causing them to feel the intense boredom of the healer role.

Honestly, i cannot blame a single one of you guys for wanting to strike. Healing as a role is so damn boring, even when levelling all my jobs to 80 WHM was an absolute bore and AST was hard carried by the card system giving the job more to do. Slap a Regen on the tank and like 80% of the work was already done assuming they weren't recovering from a lobotomy. Except for DRK but that's a whole different thing.
And thats before factoring how much Healers lost over the years, like SCH having so many dots, AST with its cool time mage theming and just having more then 2 buttons to press 90% of the time.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

While on the topic of not healing, is there anyone who will be trying DPS for the first time? What job are you thinking of?

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Either RDM or PLD

Count me in, Gemina. Out of curiosity, is the hashtag being used on X (aka Twitter)?

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Count me in, Gemina. Out of curiosity, is the hashtag being used on X (aka Twitter)?

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There's a single post under that hashtag, so we can only hope to have the ball rolling.

I’ve been limiting myself from queueing as solo healers these past few months & mostly only roulettes with (semi) premades as an attempt to limit my service to as little randos as possible. EX/Savage PFs are also done 98% with my static (gonna be looking for one in DT though probably!)—I will not be filling any of those gaping green labels that’s currently seen in PF listing.

It won’t be much… but unfortunately for me, I have nowhere else to go. In any games that I played, it’s always ‘main healer or quit’. Playing as any other just fizzes me out so fast.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

While on the topic of not healing, is there anyone who will be trying DPS for the first time? What job are you thinking of?[…]

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I’m not entirely stranger to DPS roles. As of now, I play RDM, BLM, NIN, BRD, & DNC more intimately compared to the rest in the available roster. SMN & SAM used to be there in the list as well until Gemshine Mage & Kaitenless era began I refuse to change into them outside Eureka/BSF or gposing purpose :p

Neither VPR nor PIC looked appealing to me at the moment. I will always level up all jobs to cap level, but from that point they’re mostly just to fill up friend’s dailies/co static progs, or gposing (lol). PIC might will be added to the list just from the grace of being a spellcaster. I LOVE playing as spellcasters.

Count me in. I've always enjoyed MNK and while I'm nervous about the changes it's getting, it can't be any worse than what I've endured playing healers these past few years.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

I think something that would help make healing more engaging in dungeons would be to have trash throw damage onto anything other than the tank. Have the trash do things like put dots on random party members, focus attack a random party member, use stack marker aoes or just aoes in general would be a good start.

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There are a couple places they do things like this. The archers in Baelsar's wall will drop DoTs on multiple members of the party. There are mobs in that dungeon and in Amaurot that will tether to players. The mobs that tether to healers in Amaurot will even lessen their healing ability until it's killed. So they do play with the idea from time to time and it would be nice to see more of it.

To the OP, I fully support the idea that you should not play the role if you are unhappy. I'm not currently unhappy to that point so I will still be playing a healer. But this is a good idea and those who feel they need to should absolutely participate.

I don't main healer but i feel for you guys, so add me to this one.
Healing is so boring atm

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Count me in, Gemina. Out of curiosity, is the hashtag being used on X (aka Twitter)?

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The support is well appreciated, Kacho. Welcome to... the resistance xD

I don't have a X account, but I will likely create one after what has developed over the last couple of days. Hopefully we can continue to give this movement some steam.

What I don’t understand and what I’ve never understood about post ShB healer design is they seem to have no driving philosophy behind it as they contradict their own design and their own decisions they apply to the other roles

Looking at an example- tanks moving into EW and DT got buffed defensives and consolidated rotations that fix most of their ceiling/floor issues (for example PLD lost its spreadsheet mode that made you do weird things like -15 second FOF and lionheart will severely reduce how often you need to do weird things like AOE on one target to get a cartridge before downtime). DPS meanwhile got changes that basically enforce particular play designs (BLM non standard is dead, enchanted reprise may as well not even be a button anymore, life’s built in drift is pretty much gone etc) so their guiding principle seems to be accessibility and static rotations.

However healers seem to stand in opposition to this. The more oGCD’s they add the higher the gap between the floor and the ceiling becomes because DF has shown that ultra casuals simply do not understand why oGCD’s are so powerful. They also continue to make oGCD’s on the healer front oblique and difficult to understand for non healer mains. Using an example of seraphism, anyone who is a decently knowledgeable SCH main read seraphism’s tooltip and basically went “oh so it’s a replacement spreadlo amplifier to free up dissipation with a regen attached” but if you have no idea what SCH’s strengths are you’ll probably read it as “WHM mode”. The healer tooltips are terribly designed, obfuscate their intended use and are hostile to new players. Then while the profess accessibility and design the tanks to be fail states for the healers they still basically enforce full uptime and minimal GCD useage to even come close to clearing most high end content and don’t provide them many useful tools to actually work with this system. In modern 14 SCH is arguably the most immobile class in the game as it has ZERO movement tools that are DPS neutral.

So the classes don’t really “help” anyone because experienced players who are sick of the 111111111 can cut through the bullshit and realise these changes change nothing but inexperienced people are stuck at the mercy of messy tooltips and high skill floors for entry to anything higher than alliance raids where the WAR can’t carry them. This in turn fosters a seriously two tiered healer design where you are either a cure 1 spammer because the game never asks anything of you; in which case a skill like divine caress doesn’t make any sense as to what it brings to your kit, or you are a semi competent healer who understands that but is sick of having nothing to do

The role has no flow and no progression which makes it extremely hostile to near everyone

Eh, I tried SGE for the first time recently and I have quite enjoyed it, eh in this case I might just stick with it if peoples are quitting.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Eh, I tried SGE for the first time recently and I have quite enjoyed it, eh in this case I might just stick with it if peoples are quitting.

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Yes because spamming 111111211111 is such a riveting gameplay and experience on all the healers

SGE is lucky and gets to hit 3 every 45 seconds too.

It's kind of sad that Psyche on a one minute cooldown and Eukrasian Dykrasia being applied once every 30 seconds (When positioning makes it practical) somehow managed to be considerably more meaningful then what the other healers got.

E dyskrasia being 30 seconds and phyche being an oGCD basically neutered any enjoyment from the improvements in SGE

Now you’ll just dump e dyskrasia after e dosis and press psyche on CD

Ironically SGE is going to be the one suffering the most from even further consolidation around the burst window. SCH seems poised to dominate in damage again

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Yes because spamming 111111211111 is such a riveting gameplay and experience on all the healers

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There's not much real difference between pressing 1121 and by pressing 1234, if you believe there is there's something psychologically wrong with you, all classes are in the same boat and if you find this boring you'll find tanking and dps boring aswell...