Please Don't Rework Huton (Ninja) Live-Letter Feedback

Maybe! It looks like the upgrade to Mug, so at least we're only using it once every two minutes.

Theyre seemingly allergic to numbers ticking down

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Originally Posted by Mecia

Theyre seemingly allergic to numbers ticking down

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Numbers ticking down is generally boring.

Though my personal opinion of huton is this: While it was great in HW when the class didn't even have ninki (and was a lot more fun to me, personally,) huton was precast and then it was one of 7 unique combos in the mudra system that just never had a use mid-combat, especially after nin got a GCD to just get full huton from 0. Removing it opens up more options for the class to develop.

Plus, I've since learned that hard failure conditions that lead to bad play states is just bad for class design. I'm a fan of variable skill ceiling but despise high skill floors. Huton was more a floor than ceiling thing, and it wasn't extremely impactful so this is mostly a non-issue, but as mentioned, it opens up new options. I'm curious to see what an AoE hidden will be used for, for example.

I've been playing NIN as my main DPS since day 1, and I personally don't have any issue with this change because you're still having to use Armor Crush periodically to gain the new kunai resource to burn on Aeolian Edge, presumably for higher potency.

The only thing it's really doing is removing the rather inconsequential action of having to use Huton pre-pull or after you die and also makes playing NIN while sync'd down less tedious due to not having to manually refresh Huton due to lack of Armor Crush.

It further means Tenchijin has a better combo for AoE now as you can do fuma > katon > huton.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It further means Tenchijin has a better combo for AoE now as you can do fuma > katon > huton.

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That isn't possible right now because Huton and Katon both end with Ten.

I guess I haven't ninja'd enough in instances lately to remember that.

Will be nice to have an AoE trick attack enabler for those pulls with a single tankier enemy you want to dump your single target CDs on anyhow.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Numbers ticking down is generally boring.

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I have bad news for you about FF14's fundamental combat systems.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I guess I haven't ninja'd enough in instances lately to remember that.

Will be nice to have an AoE trick attack enabler for those pulls with a single tankier enemy you want to dump your single target CDs on anyhow.

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Looking over the job action trailer I think the new last ability they showed kinda seems like a suiton spender, used under effect of hidden or even a Trick Attack upgrade . Maybe something like 10% dmg for first and 5% damage to surrounding targets if it is a TA upgrade or variant that shares same CD . Probably can use new huton/hidden status > new ability for AOE is just my theory :P

Speaking of TCJ above how do most ninja players use it in AOE , I always see people do Fuma/Katon/Doton but I always do 1-2-3 for ST and 2-1-3 for Aoe . I always use suiton/meisui to use Bunshin or Goka after as I want Doton first b4 I use TCJ to get to the potency increase from Katon

i think that last move is just a finisher for TCJ once you activate it
seems to be the new thing this expansion for couple of jobs Drk procs after shadow,WHM after PoM,SCH after chain strat etc etc

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Originally Posted by Duskane

i think that last move is just a finisher for TCJ once you activate it
seems to be the new thing this expansion for couple of jobs Drk procs after shadow,WHM after PoM,SCH after chain strat etc etc

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Unless they plan on removing Meisui I don't believe it's the case , Job action trailers aren't really indicative to how the job will actually function and actions used in the trailer (if there's no revisions) are only setups to show of a new ability . It would seem silly that they would lock you out of using TA or Meisui now when using TCJ unless it activates when using any mudra combination which I highly doubt . Moving and screwing up TCJ is already punishing enough and locking you of another ability that corresponds to it would be overkill

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Originally Posted by vetch

I have bad news for you about FF14's fundamental combat systems.

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Meh. I'm not that fond of timers either, they're an annoyance to me. I prefer thoughtful buildup of resources, which is why I'm actually happy with the NIN/MNK changes. But it may remove some skill expression, so there is that too I guess...

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Originally Posted by StriderZessei

Keeping up Huton at lower levels (before unlocking Armor Crush) is a boring, un-fun experience.

Between this change and Monk, it seems like the devs want us to be less focused on monitoring timers and more on rotations/combos, and I'm 100% here for it.

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Keeping up Huton at lower levels was an engaging, fun experience for me. Dont assume your feelings are objective. Just because you couldnt keep track of a pretty timer doesnt else nobody else enjoyed it. It made ninjutsu more interesting at lower levels.

I'll be honest i wouldn't call it engaging but i wouldn't call it boring/un-fun either ,the charge action of mudras really takes away any real engagement.

Maintaining Doton isn't fun for me. It was especially annoying when doing the Yo-kai events recently as if you're regularly syncing it keeps dropping off, which means you either lose 15% attack speed or just leave it off, which is what I did because you frequently didn't have time to put it up. Precursor buffs frequently have problems. It also just adds a few seconds to pre-pull time and that's a category of thing I would love to see shrink.

It's gone and nothing will change that. Adjust.

Losing Huton grants you a new Wind dmg ninjutsu and a new Kunai system. I don't see any downside here.

I do really hope the kunai system isn’t just for AE and has some depth to it. Depending on how strong Huton is we may even use it in single target. On one hand I’m sad we lose Huton as a mechanic you have to keep an eye out but on the other I do think they can add way more depth if they make the kunai system interesting. But as we all know square the chances of that really gonna happen is sadly very slim

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Originally Posted by Ayden

Losing Huton grants you a new Wind dmg ninjutsu and a new Kunai system. I don't see any downside here.

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The "new ninjutsu" is likely just an AoE variant to something we already had and will mean nothing outside of dungeons. The new Kunai system is just a watered-down version of maintaining Huton that is less interesting.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

I do really hope the kunai system isn’t just for AE and has some depth to it. Depending on how strong Huton is we may even use it in single target. On one hand I’m sad we lose Huton as a mechanic you have to keep an eye out but on the other I do think they can add way more depth if they make the kunai system interesting. But as we all know square the chances of that really gonna happen is sadly very slim

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I think there's a zero-percent chance the Kunai system isn't just "buff AE with Kunais gained from AC" which is the most bland thing imaginable, and also what they're doing with Monk.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Please do. Upkeep buffs are always annoying in games with downtime.

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I disagree. I think they're interesting and engaging. I think you should just get better at managing them and they aren't annoying!

Gotta agree with people that don't like timers myself here. I think the kunai thing is relatively simple and elegant since it bases itself on additional attached effects that affect other parts of the kit, but obviously it's a question of taste. Either way, not a melee main, so if timers is what people prefer, then timers it is as far as I'm concerned.

Remember when pre-pull Doton went away and no one missed it? Like that, this will be an improvement to the class.

(It's the internet, so someone now has to come in to say, "ACKSHUALLY, pre-pull Doton was pure skill expression and NIN is totally unplayable without it." In real life, NIN just plays better without it.)

Having gone back to play NIN to pre-farm some dungeon gear for VPR, I think I kinda agree with the changes. I think the Huton timer kinda distracts from the rest of NIN's gameplay a little. However I do agree that having to set up your Mudras, and wait in hiding is some really good job flavor so I would like to see Hide grant a free kunai or two to keep that gameplay flow in dungeons.

im more curious what else will come with said Huton change
since entire point of Hide resetting mudras is for Huton,will hide be axed? or will the reset be axed.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

im more curious what else will come with said Huton change
since entire point of Hide resetting mudras is for Huton,will hide be axed? or will the reset be axed.

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The actual Mudra combo is being repurposed to be an aoe attack that grants the effects of hidden (it's aoe Suiton) so actions like Trick Attack, and TCJ will be a little more useable in aoe situations.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Having gone back to play NIN to pre-farm some dungeon gear for VPR, I think I kinda agree with the changes. I think the Huton timer kinda distracts from the rest of NIN's gameplay a little. However I do agree that having to set up your Mudras, and wait in hiding is some really good job flavor so I would like to see Hide grant a free kunai or two to keep that gameplay flow in dungeons.

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Huton's timer didn't "distract" from Ninja gameplay at all. Ninja gameplay is almost sleep-inducing between bursts and Huton is an element to keep track of during that time.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

im more curious what else will come with said Huton change
since entire point of Hide resetting mudras is for Huton,will hide be axed? or will the reset be axed.

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Hide will still be a good reset tool for inbetween pulls in dungeons , DDs and exploratory zones .

The Huton change is like the least offensive thing they've done in the past few NIN changes they made (I am still salty about 1-minute Trick Attack being removed, that was such a horrid change mostly for other classes' skill expression). The Kunai gauge change practically retains what we've lost with Huton + we now get to use Huton as AOE Suiton which will be nice for dungeons.

Overall, NIN's 7.0 changes are uninspiring opposed to what they could have done instead. Would have been neat to see an extra combo route, new GCD, or something that makes our filler more than spamming 1-2-3 until our next 1-minute. Instead we got two new oGCDs we'll see once every 2-minutes.

Since every class's personal buff + raid buff are being extended to 20s, it would have also made sense if Kunai's Bane was 20s long. Currently we cannot fit all our Raiju's under Trick Attack. And Ten-Chi-Jin getting a second follow-up oGCD (since we already have Meisui) just seems clunky, and unnecessarily backloaded. Getting Trick extended + having Tenri Jindo being a short recast GCD (like 1-1.5s) would have felt a bit more fresh imo.

I also think Mug (or whatever new Mug is called) granting Zeppo for free instead of it still being 50 gauge + it being an AOE like Kunai's Bane... would be nice.

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Originally Posted by kackal_Jackal

Overall, NIN's 7.0 changes are uninspiring opposed to what they could have done instead. Would have been neat to see an extra combo route, new GCD, or something that makes our filler more than spamming 1-2-3 until our next 1-minute. Instead we got two new oGCDs we'll see once every 2-minutes.

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To be fair, Almost nobody got anything new as that sort of complexity... allegedly it will be something worked upon in 8.0.

In fact, additions and changes concerned, I think NIN was the most well served (I don't play DRG though, so I'm not sure what happened there). I also think what they got is more engaging than Huton.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

To be fair, Almost nobody got anything new as that sort of complexity... allegedly it will be something worked upon in 8.0.

In fact, additions and changes concerned, I think NIN was the most well served (I don't play DRG though, so I'm not sure what happened there). I also think what they got is more engaging than Huton.

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I understand they're focusing on job changes allegedly in 8.0, but I'm still disappointed that the 7.0 stuff for a lot of jobs are particularly bland (or worse, oversimplified in BLM's case).

New huton is fire damage, FIIIREEE? How do you mess that up.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

New huton is fire damage, FIIIREEE? How do you mess that up.

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lol I saw that , likely just a typo