Job trailer discussion

Paladin looks underwhelming change wise. I like that they kept the blade combo since that's the best part of Paladin, but the level 100 addition is a bit weak visually and I don't think they got anything else new.

All healers get new offensive actions!

>Yay

Offensive actions are tied to your 2min burst window CDs

>Boo

You'll get to add 15 casts of flashy magic to your 150+ casts of glare. You'll get to add 5 (oGCD) casts of your new Dot to your 150+ casts of broil. You'll (Probably) add 5 casts of the wheel of the twelve thingy to your 150+ casts of Malefic.

I suspect SGE's new spell will have a long CD too.

Very very scared due to Scholar's section. They didn't show AoW so I really hope that AOE CS looking skill isn't replacing it. The Enshroud looks...just bad, the Enshroud versions of skills are filled with faeries which isn't bad on its own but I vastly prefer the original looks, just let me keep my War Tactician Square... or even just my character model. Most of all, they didn't show Energy Drain. They didn't show Energy Drain. Please please do not take it away.


Also don't like we're losing Huton in exchange for a system that seems to just be "press Armor Crush for Kunai, spend Kunai on Aeolian Edge"


/doomposting over

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Originally Posted by SylvAlternate

Very very scared due to Scholar's section. They didn't show AoW so I really hope that AOE CS looking skill isn't replacing it.

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That CS AoE looking Chain Stratagem is doubtly replacing AoW considering you only get to use it after you use Chain Stratagem. (Yes, once every 2minutes, yay!)

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Originally Posted by Shenlao

Well I was hoping they would finish making the summoner job but was already bracing myself for just getting 1 extra summon per expansion but even I could not predict that it would just be Bahamut 2.
Like that's a cool model visually but really? Of all the summons of the FF universe you could have come up to give us at a 100 capstone it's Bahamut again... that is like wild that this went through.

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I feel they'd either add a new Demi or a 3 new gemstone summons, not both, since that's a lot of new things for just one xpac. Assuming they chose Demi for Dawntrail to alternate between that and gems.

That being said, of all summonable creatures in the franchise, there's absolutely no justification to choose yet another bahamut variation.

The WHMsissyiffication of SCH now became literal, they forgot it used to be a commander in a war.
Ninja even more simplified and boring.
Monk is now the same as all the other jobs.
Absolutely pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I'm just curious, are you using the term "forced" as in "this seems forced" or are you using it as though SE is forcing you against your will to do something?

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To clarify, I'm against the concept of combat abilities overriding the character model as a whole

Glad to see Dancer looks more of the same. I was really glad to see some of the dancer animations from FFXI that will feel really nostalgic as I played dancer in XI also. I was a little saddened to not see any new summons like Shiva or Ramuh.

My only complaint and feedback that I have now is the only real disappointment I have with the trailer; summoner.

I'm one of the few players that actually adores the new summoner. I really disliked the previous warlock wow ripoff dot mage, and that's exactly what it was - if I'm not mistaken the devs / yoshi admitted that summoner was just a final fantasy reflavor of another job from another game *cough*warlockwow*cough*. That ISN'T summoner. I feel bad for those previous summoners that loved that job, but asking for the summoner job to be rerolled back to that NOT summoner job isn't the answer. The answer is to ask for a new debuffer job instead.

However, I do agree the job is very basic. I really enjoy this gameplay b/c it suits my playstyle - I like simple! I don't like everything simple, but I do like the fun of getting to actually see the boss and moves b/c I've the rotation so on point. Still, seeing how simple smn is, I was absolutely certain the job would be built on in the next expansion. Well, it doesn't seem to be the case.

CRITICISM/FEEDBACK: I don't want Summoner to become a Bahamut mage. Yes Neo-Bahamut is cool, /rollseyes I mean.. "solar" bahamut. However, we have Bahamut! We don't need another Bahamut! What we need is Shiva, Ramuh, Alexander, Leviathan, Titania, ANIMA!!! I know devs are terrified of button bloat, then give us these summons over Ifrit / Titan / Garuda once we're in Phoenix phase - or make them finishers, or make them OGCDs.

RANT: I can't agree more with Yoshi's desire to make summoner an actual Final Fantasy summoner. It's always been my favorite Final Fantasy job. When I was kid one of the most exciting things in all the Final Fantasy games I played was to get the new summon and watch the cutscene. So, I have no idea why Yoshi doesn't follow through with that design. Sure, add new ffxiv unique summons, but give us some of the class ones first. I want Leviathan's tidal wave, I want Ramuh's judgement bolt, I want Shiva's diamond dust, I want all of those summons! I don't care if I have 24 buttons to push - let me slot them like materia or something- I don't know, just give me my summons please.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

The WHMsissyiffication of SCH now became literal, they forgot it used to be a commander in a war.
Ninja even more simplified and boring.
Monk is now the same as all the other jobs.
Absolutely pathetic.

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Monk looks way better, what are you talking about? It's still it's own thing, just tweaked slightly, less staring at timers, more focus on gcds. It's what it should be.

"Astro's cards are no longer random."

Lame, boooo. Tomato tomato tomato I'm throwing tomatoes.

They should really have 2 versions of astro; one for baby-casual content like 99% of the game where the cards would be random using the new system, and a savage-ultimate version where every card's predictable.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

My only complaint and feedback that I have now is the only real disappointment I have with the trailer; summoner.

I'm one of the few players that actually adores the new summoner. I really disliked the previous warlock wow ripoff dot mage, and that's exactly what it was - if I'm not mistaken the devs / yoshi admitted that summoner was just a final fantasy reflavor of another job from another game *cough*warlockwow*cough*. That ISN'T summoner. I feel bad for those previous summoners that loved that job, but asking for the summoner job to be rerolled back to that NOT summoner job isn't the answer. The answer is to ask for a new debuffer job instead.

However, I do agree the job is very basic. I really enjoy this gameplay b/c it suits my playstyle - I like simple! I don't like everything simple, but I do like the fun of getting to actually see the boss and moves b/c I've the rotation so on point. Still, seeing how simple smn is, I was absolutely certain the job would be built on in the next expansion. Well, it doesn't seem to be the case.

CRITICISM/FEEDBACK: I don't want Summoner to become a Bahamut mage. Yes Neo-Bahamut is cool, /rollseyes I mean.. "solar" bahamut. However, we have Bahamut! We don't need another Bahamut! What we need is Shiva, Ramuh, Alexander, Leviathan, Titania, ANIMA!!! I know devs are terrified of button bloat, then give us these summons over Ifrit / Titan / Garuda once we're in Phoenix phase - or make them finishers, or make them OGCDs.

RANT: I can't agree more with Yoshi's desire to make summoner an actual Final Fantasy summoner. It's always been my favorite Final Fantasy job. When I was kid one of the most exciting things in all the Final Fantasy games I played was to get the new summon and watch the cutscene. So, I have no idea why Yoshi doesn't follow through with that design. Sure, add new ffxiv unique summons, but give us some of the class ones first. I want Leviathan's tidal wave, I want Ramuh's judgement bolt, I want Shiva's diamond dust, I want all of those summons! I don't care if I have 24 buttons to push - let me slot them like materia or something- I don't know, just give me my summons please.

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The fascination cub3 has with bahamut is unhealthy. We get it, he's the strongest dragon, blah blah blah; but that's not what most people love about summoner jobs in rpgs; it's not about which summon is strongest, it's about options. If the option is always tilted to choosing the same one it just because a "bahamut mage" for example; as that has become the emphasis of summoner.

Yoshi-P out here saying they're going to work on job identity in 8.0. So they realize it's a problem but aren't doing anything about it for years. Okay.

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Originally Posted by SigmarrIrenesch

"Astro's cards are no longer random."

Lame, boooo. Tomato tomato tomato I'm throwing tomatoes.

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What the heck get your own character Aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

What the heck get your own character Aesthetic.

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Brother???

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Yoshi-P out here saying they're going to work on job identity in 8.0. So they realize it's a problem but aren't doing anything about it for years. Okay.

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Not just years, 4 years minimum if the current length between expansions holds true.

GNB looks like it'll survive DT, just seems like they're adding a new continuation AOE and combo, the new AOE is a welcome addition.

However, the new bloodfest combo looks so freaking bad! Flying all over the place for no reason. At least with double down you can see the force of the explosion is pushing your char into the air, but where's the logic behind this new combo? You see nothing propelling them upwards, it's like nocliping in the air.

You have a job that can propel itself in the air with the force of its weapon, why do you not take advantage of that?

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Originally Posted by SigmarrIrenesch

"Astro's cards are no longer random."

Lame, boooo. Tomato tomato tomato I'm throwing tomatoes.

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LOL This made me laugh so hard XD It's totally true. I've been playing Ast since Stormblood and a little back in Heavensward. I feel like such a contrarian in these forms, but I really liked the change they gave it in ShB. I felt so happy to not constantly be fishing for Balance. I NEVER used other cards. I've read some players niche situations in using the regens / defensive cards and honestly I rolled my eyes LOL. I'm so casual about those cards that I only ever used them b/c I didn't have another choice.

When I saw the new change, that we don't get to play a mini-fishing game and now we're just being delt a 4 card hand, I was disappointed. However, I'm willing to give it a try. I've had this version of Ast for about 4-5yrs? I'm ok with trying a different one. I do agree with the complaints though, it's stripping Ast of the fun mini-game. It might be fun though, and I'm eager to try it out. If I don't like it, meh I've got 3 other healers to choose from

Kinda feel like they played it safe with job abilities. Was hoping with the big 100 every job would get some giant boomish ability lol.

That said I think I think the stacking of certain skills into one hud slot just like in pvp is a really nice touch. I mean those base combo abilities are basically ilke our general attacks now anyways. My first thought was that this opens up the hud in so many ways for future improvements on classes. Think Fire 1, Fire 2, Fire 3 (elements), Paralyze, sleep, poison (status ailments), Haste, protect, shell(status buff) in turn maybe allowing us to start going back to UNIQUE skills and abilities later which you can probably more easily place on a hud and execute without having to really switch things around too much. especially since almost everything is doable with trusts now, there is no real need to worry about what other players will think in general content.

And I was super happy to hear Yoshi P directly and somewhat confirm my thoughts that this is indeed a setup for 8.0 where they plan on making job abilities more unique again. So idk I was hyperbolic with my examples especially considering Ninjas haste like ability is getting downgraded to a trait, but we'll see I suppose. I think them adding ANOTHER limited job, more people really getting into blue mage, people complaining about the homogenization, and a kinda random focus on XI this expansion veers us more in the direction of less safety and more experimentation which im personally down for. Lets just hope dungeons, mobs and bosses and even gear start to get the same treatment.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

My only complaint and feedback that I have now is the only real disappointment I have with the trailer; summoner.

I'm one of the few players that actually adores the new summoner. I really disliked the previous warlock wow ripoff dot mage, and that's exactly what it was - if I'm not mistaken the devs / yoshi admitted that summoner was just a final fantasy reflavor of another job from another game *cough*warlockwow*cough*. That ISN'T summoner. I feel bad for those previous summoners that loved that job, but asking for the summoner job to be rerolled back to that NOT summoner job isn't the answer. The answer is to ask for a new debuffer job instead.

However, I do agree the job is very basic. I really enjoy this gameplay b/c it suits my playstyle - I like simple! I don't like everything simple, but I do like the fun of getting to actually see the boss and moves b/c I've the rotation so on point. Still, seeing how simple smn is, I was absolutely certain the job would be built on in the next expansion. Well, it doesn't seem to be the case.

CRITICISM/FEEDBACK: I don't want Summoner to become a Bahamut mage. Yes Neo-Bahamut is cool, /rollseyes I mean.. "solar" bahamut. However, we have Bahamut! We don't need another Bahamut! What we need is Shiva, Ramuh, Alexander, Leviathan, Titania, ANIMA!!! I know devs are terrified of button bloat, then give us these summons over Ifrit / Titan / Garuda once we're in Phoenix phase - or make them finishers, or make them OGCDs.

RANT: I can't agree more with Yoshi's desire to make summoner an actual Final Fantasy summoner. It's always been my favorite Final Fantasy job. When I was kid one of the most exciting things in all the Final Fantasy games I played was to get the new summon and watch the cutscene. So, I have no idea why Yoshi doesn't follow through with that design. Sure, add new ffxiv unique summons, but give us some of the class ones first. I want Leviathan's tidal wave, I want Ramuh's judgement bolt, I want Shiva's diamond dust, I want all of those summons! I don't care if I have 24 buttons to push - let me slot them like materia or something- I don't know, just give me my summons please.

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So far this is the best response I have read on this. I was really hoping for like an anima ultimate summon ability too. That said i thought the most logical thing would be to finish Summoner by doing exactly what you said, make the bahamut phase titan, garuda, and ifrit, while making the pheonix phase shiva, leviathan, and raumuh.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuut here we are. Definitely felt underwhelming.

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Originally Posted by Mihka

Extremely unhappy with Scholar's forced transformation. If we don't have TOS-abiding ways to disable this, the job is completely dead to me honestly, and it's been the main job I've played since leaving ARR and what I've raided on every savage tier I've played. I love the idea of a tactical combat medic, but I think Square has forgotten the job's entire lore by this point. I'm actually pretty livid about it.

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I don't really touch SCH but dang the transformation looks.... pretty bad. And I imagine like RPR's Enshroud, it will also hide hair and unique racial features too (which is something I already don't like about Enshroud). But at least Enshroud has an otherworldly feel about it, SCH's transformation looks pretty plain. Immediately reminded me of that Christmas choir glam from a few years back.

I thought the SCH transformation couldn't be as bad as some of these complaints made it out to be, so I checked out the trailer myself...

It's so much worse. I thought it would at least be some sort of incorporeal glowy form but no, it just replaces your outfit with a white gown with some costume angel wings attached?

Even regardless of the fact its not fitting the job, it just looks bad.

Reaper and Red mage: not sure if it's new because I don't play them but I love the portal launching above enemies that shoot out projectiles, very cool

Summoner: eh...another Bahamut? Not a fan.

Viper: slash slash slash! seems pretty boring.

Dark Knight: someone said something about a transformation? What is it?

I am posting my unwanted feedback as well. Unlike many people here, I give zero cares about damage output - I just want a complicated rotation and effects that I like. I also don't know how to identify many old moves versus current moves.

Winners on graphics:
Red Mage [that crystal move is wow], AST [overall beautiful presentation], Reaper [pretty neat moves - the giant orb explosion made DRKs cry], I'll put Viper in here - the moves are unique and bright, I'm going to put Monk up here - typically one of my least favorite classes, their moves look good. I have decided to include Pictomancer because of how ridiculous it is. The ultimate move is lol.

Losers:
Dragoon [Giant cannon of light], Bard [I main Bard, new bloodletter looks great, but I hate that we got a giant cannon of light., White Mage - I'm not even sure what the identity of a White Mage is now - are they Rosa, are they Aerith - music definitely was Aerithish; I just didn't think they had enough to make them stand out? Ninja - feels like it was was just outright ignored for viper and monk - even looks slow next to the Viper.

Midare setsugekka turned ugly. Imagine they changed fel cleave into some abomination of an animation. Don't mess with perfection.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Midare setsugekka turned ugly. Imagine they changed fel cleave into some abomination of an animation. Don't mess with perfection.

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Hard disagree, new midare rules.

Changes aside, I think it wasn't the best job actions trailer I've seen. Shadowbringers and Endwalker's ones were by far the best ever. Is was "ok".

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Hard disagree, new midare rules.

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I could maybe agree if they didn't have the gaudy swords in the ground, but also it's just not a good animation in comparison. The original midare is an upward diagonal draw slash that spins into a horizontal slash in one smooth motion. It looks like a really cool secret technique. The new one has busy aura swords and is just 3 consecutive slashes that are completely unlinked. It has lost its identity. It doesn't even feel like an iaijutsu attack anymore after the first cut. We go from something extremely elegant and understated yet heavy, into some busy mess that is completely overstated.

I'm not really a fan of how they seem to be doubling down on just giving jobs follow-up actions to their one/two minute cooldowns.

Stuff like SGE's AoE DoT and BLM's new fireball that can be used more liberally are what I was hoping to see more of.

I'll gladly take class identification over some spazzy adhd class that doesn't really do anything in particular.

I think Ninja looks great , managing resources instead of a timer seems like a good alternative plus we get another mudra attack and are naturally fast now .

It seems like most off what we saw just looks like upgrades to existing abilities like:
1st ability looks like an upgrade to Death Blossom or Dream within a Dream .. kinda hard to say
2nd is Bhav( Rasangun) upgrade to Sharingan .. looks sweet
3rd the poison mist looks like a upgrade or replacement to mug (hoping the latter) DoT Maybe?!?!?
4th is upgraded Goka
Last looks like a upgrade to meisui or another ability that uses suiton or hidden

I have a feeling the rotation will remain relatively the same but just slightly different which I'm cool with

I know I discussed my disappointment in the lack of a second gem phase for summoner, particularly phoenix phase, that is the most natural / obvious step in adding more summons without button bloat (replacing Ifrit / Titan / Garuda with Shiva / Leviathan / Ramuh); however, as the days go by and I'm able to continue to digest the changes there is more feedback I'd like to leave.

Astrologian: Ok, again, I definitely fall into that minority camp of really enjoying the change to Ast in Shadowbringers. I never used the old system of niche cards and with the current system I felt the random fishing for ranged / melee dps was still fun enough to give me my card mini game besides pressing 1 dps button and the occasional aoe heal. I've also been playing this game for a while, so when I see changes to jobs now I think, "Ok cool, I've had the same job for x amount of years, I'm cool trying something different." I still feel this way with Ast. Still, I am concerned with the new card draw.

FEEDBACK: 60 secs guaranteed 3 different cards is going to kill the fun of the buffing aspect for Ast, because the cooldown is too long. I do believe this is the best compromise for those that want those useless niche cards again and those few of us that enjoy buffing our dps'ers. I do not know the potency of the buffs or even the new card system, but if it is a straight up 60sec draw and I only have 1 dps buff card for 60sec vs the 30sec 2 draw I have now, it's going to feel really bad in game, imo. The cards are just going to turn into fancy ogcd's. I don't want more OGCDs, I want to play a fun card mini game.

I'm not going to rage against the change, or pretend this will totally ruin Ast. I couldn't imagine how many iterations the devs must have gone through to try to please all crowds regarding the card mechanic, and I'm more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm just concerned with that really long cooldown, this is going to kill the fun aspect of drawing cards during battle and instead just be another OGCD for party buffs.

Didn't like it. Jobs are getting even more painfully simple. The content will need to really be something special to keep me from just spamming more pvp for 3 years