Yoshida gives update on the benchmark/character creator

After seeing it used to describe any sort of disagreement or differences in a point of view, I really look forward to the day the internet leaves the word 'gaslighting' back where it found it.

All I can say is, "ah, cool!"

Love the quick response.
Thought that kind of kills my plans for the afternoon as i was gonna construct a tier list :p

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Originally Posted by Sacae

Has anyone checked the bones in the models used for the Hildebrand cutscenes and compared them to the new models yet? IIRC, don't they use the Hildebrand quests to test new graphics things?

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You can try this one for comparison, but it suffers from a lot of the lighting issues present in the benchmark.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRMsqYL2/ffxiv-...30650-413s.png

Cautiously hopeful.

I’m still concerned that they did not mentioned about sculpting blatant redesigns (shrinking nose bridge, addition of nasolabial folds, upping the poly of eye shapes without matching the older shape, etc). But if there’s anything they got it right from this move, is a communication. It could be just a PR talk but it IS something.

One can only hope from this point onward and keep adding what little feedback that they can find to compile & hopefully helps.

For people complaining about how it doesn't address x or y, there's some funny words you skipped over. I'll quote them for you:

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The following points are some of the factors that will be resolved by applying the graphical update of the actual game to the character creation system

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The following are examples of issues which fall into this category

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It's not like full patch notes where you get every tiny detail addressed. Reserve judgement about future changes until they actually happen. Keep providing feedback and try not to start doom posting again.

another yoship W

Anything about the black "eyeliner" they added to a few faces?

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Originally Posted by Berkilak

Anything about the black "eyeliner" they added to a few faces?

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They might fix it internally without mentioning it. We won't know until the updated benchmark is out.

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Originally Posted by Berkilak

Anything about the black "eyeliner" they added to a few faces?

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Added makeup and eyeliner becoming too dark & stark is a very common complaint for all races, even in the JP thread! It's hopefully one of the higher priorities for "feedback implementation" they mention in #3, since it's so easily noticeable. That doesn't mean to stop trying to get your voice heard, though!

The lighting not being properly fixed in the benchmark explains why the three starter zones had duller highlights than the aetherial sea stuff, which had all the proper highlights on some of my characters.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

How about you ALL just wait for release to see and stop with the typical general forum diatribes. I come here rarely now given just about everything new receives the typical it sucks receptions.

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waiting for release before seeing typically in games means you get scammed more than likely so that is an invalid view just look at d4

Well, glad he adressed in time. Now it's really time to "complain" about the outdated character creator so they do indeed add more features to it. :D
Please, contribute constructive feedback.

Glad to see this. Hopefully the updated version helps ease some of the worry about changed character features. Seemed to be the number one issue was the lighting conditions from what I could tell from others before and after comparisons.

I was already impressed with how my character translated over so it will be interesting to see how the updated benchmark looks as well. Good on SE for a prompt response to all the feedback.

Honestly, I feel like overlooking the one place where people could do a 1:1 comparison is slightly out of touch from SE, but a new version of the benchmark seems a good new. Now wait see.

But this doesn't help my feeling they're late with the game, and that the dev are probably crunching like animals, and that it would probably have been beneficial for everyone to have one more month before release (don't get me wrong, I glad it release when it does, and this wave of critics HAD to be tackled, but it's another hint that everything is not going smoothly)

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Originally Posted by Sacae

Has anyone checked the bones in the models used for the Hildebrand cutscenes and compared them to the new models yet? IIRC, don't they use the Hildebrand quests to test new graphics things?

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I tried: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6445208
Well there is definitely differences there and I tried to analyze according to my perception. Feel free to add if there are things you like to add.

How I wish the dev team would address the lack of CC part of the benchmark being available to console players. It is very unfair with such changes. Not to mention that mac users would need the benchmark itself.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

But this doesn't help my feeling they're late with the game, and that the dev are probably crunching like animals, and that it would probably have been beneficial for everyone to have one more month before release (don't get me wrong, I glad it release when it does, and this wave of critics HAD to be tackled, but it's another hint that everything is not going smoothly)

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Considering that Yoshi-P said they actually wanted to release sooner, I don't think they are rushing. They gave themselves the window of Summer, so they could have released later if they wanted to.

Nice to see them reacting quickly to the issues pointed out.

And I have to laugh at all the people crying because we dared criticize Square Enix. You are welcome.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

How about you ALL just wait for release to see and stop with the typical general forum diatribes. I come here rarely now given just about everything new receives the typical it sucks receptions.

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Because more then a few of us have been through this song & dance with other games before : "It's just the alpha, calm down!" "It's just the beta, calm down!", "It's the new expac, should have said something in alpha/beta!" and given that there have been a number of things said they would/wouldn't and didn't/did, I don't have a lot of confidence in them doing it right.

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Originally Posted by Doopliss

Added makeup and eyeliner becoming too dark & stark is a very common complaint for all races, even in the JP thread! It's hopefully one of the higher priorities for "feedback implementation" they mention in #3, since it's so easily noticeable. That doesn't mean to stop trying to get your voice heard, though!

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At least in my case, there was nothing added deliberately.

Here is my character as he is now:

https://i.imgur.com/D8VD2Al.png

Here he is in the benchmark:

https://i.imgur.com/UOK8eiP.png

I did choose some facepaint to give the eyes more of a "glow" - I did not, and would not, add eyeliner. It would pretty much contradict the whole aesthetic around the eyes I was attempting to create. But yeah, not a case of the makeup I added being too dark. It's dark makeup added baseline. And that's not something I'm a fan of.

To be clear, I love 99% of what they've done. But this was enough of a dealbreaker to have me come to the forums to complain about it.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

I'll keep my hopes to the minimum, as I doubt my issues with my characters will be solved with any of that. Still, I'm looking forward to the new version to see how I feel ;_;

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Good grief.

It's OK to be happy. Seriously give it a go. I promise a bird won't poop on your forehead if you look to the heavens when embracing a sunny day.

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Originally Posted by SongOfTheWind

How I wish the dev team would address the lack of CC part of the benchmark being available to console players. It is very unfair with such changes. Not to mention that mac users would need the benchmark itself.

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Releasing anything on consoles is a huge pain with the sony/ms requirements and validation process. They probably have their hands full dealing with that for DT itself and probably dont want to inflict themselves the pain of also dealing with all this for the benchmark.

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Originally Posted by Berkilak

At least in my case, there was nothing added deliberately.

Here is my character as he is now:

https://i.imgur.com/D8VD2Al.png

Here he is in the benchmark:

https://i.imgur.com/UOK8eiP.png

I did choose some facepaint to give the eyes more of a "glow" - I did not, and would not, add eyeliner. It would pretty much contradict the whole aesthetic around the eyes I was attempting to create. But yeah, not a case of the makeup I added being too dark. It's dark makeup added baseline. And that's not something I'm a fan of.

To be clear, I love 99% of what they've done. But this was enough of a dealbreaker to have me come to the forums to complain about it.

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This black is very weird, seems like it absorbs the light.
I'd guess this specific case is a texturing bug.
Hope it'll get resolved next iteration.

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Originally Posted by Isurith

This black is very weird, seems like it absorbs the light.
I'd guess this specific case is a texturing bug.
Hope it'll get resolved next iteration.

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Here's hoping. The thing is, the way people generally make Au Ra, it wouldn't look out of place for the vast majority of characters. Which is why I fear it may be a deliberate change. It just looks terrible if you're trying to play against type, so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Berkilak

Here's hoping. The thing is, the way people generally make Au Ra, it wouldn't look out of place for the vast majority of characters. Which is why I fear it may be a deliberate change. It just looks terrible if you're trying to play against type, so to speak.

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Totally understandable, suffering the same with my femra face 4 against the "cute" type ahah.
But it still looks weird from a texture stand point in your case. Even if they wanted it to be darker intentionally, I think it shouldn't be THAT much with just a flat line of black paint and no reflection.

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Originally Posted by Hejligan

This is good, but unfortunate that he did not mention the complaints about how certain models like eyebrows and eyelashes have been changed and how negatively that has been received.

Also I think people are being naïve who says that we should have given them the benefit of the doubt: I bet that the fact that people gave feedback played a part in this response. Indeed, if they already recognised the problems, they probably would never have launched them as a benchmark, and while we should trust them when they say that some issues were simple misses that went in to the benchmark, it is sitll highly probable that some were not. Developers need feedback, developers want feedback. Criticism is not the same as hate. I will never get the people who assume a kind of worshipful can-do-no-wrong attitude to developers, and treat those with criticism like some kind of ungrateful heretics.

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I was not arguing that the feedback was not necessary, I just wanted to say that you can give feedback without having a temper tantrum (not referring to you).
You can give your feedback and then wait for it to be implemented, no need to call people white knights.

Edit: You also have to consider that the benchmark was clearly rushed due to various obvious bugs and errors.
They shipped it because people were antsy to see how they look like with the graphics update.
But some people did not consider that the benchmark and the preview that they have shown us are WIP and will likely be changed before DT.

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Originally Posted by Mouthbone

I was not arguing that the feedback was not necessary, I just wanted to say that you can give feedback without having a temper tantrum (not referring to you).
You can give your feedback and then wait for it to be implemented, no need to call people white knights.

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Honestly, as far as NA/EU is concerned, you can blame the way that most Western companies interact with their customers. Asking nicely rarely works, let alone when your issue is time sensitive. But the second people throw their tantrums (especially if those tantrums draw a wider audience), then the companies will immediately respond. It's not about customer service - it's about optics. And that relationship has conditioned people to offer feedback in such a manner that gets results reliably. Personally, I can't really get into a tantrum mode. But I completely understand why people do. It's not how things should be, but it's how things are.

Hey mooncat players, don't panic yet just because they didn't call out the teeth by name. Teeth and fangs are all handled on the same mesh as the mouth, so if there was incorrect upscaling happening on the mouth, it probably rounded the teeth, just based on my beginner knowledge of 3D modeling. I'm holding out hope that them calling out the mouth issues in particular will include the teeth.

They also mentioned some incorrect texture linking which I'm hoping refers to the face textures having the nose marks on Roes and Lalas as well as the badly cut out Au Ra body scales. So just because they didn't make a big long list and chose generic categories doesn't mean they're ignoring your issue! It just may be that your issue is tied with one of these bigger issues that they're correcting.

At this point I'm much more comfortable waiting and seeing than before.

(Also vindicated that no the changes weren't just in my head, no matter what the people that kept telling me it was fine said.)

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Originally Posted by Berkilak

At least in my case, there was nothing added deliberately.

Here is my character as he is now:

https://i.imgur.com/D8VD2Al.png

Here he is in the benchmark:

https://i.imgur.com/UOK8eiP.png

I did choose some facepaint to give the eyes more of a "glow" - I did not, and would not, add eyeliner. It would pretty much contradict the whole aesthetic around the eyes I was attempting to create. But yeah, not a case of the makeup I added being too dark. It's dark makeup added baseline. And that's not something I'm a fan of.

To be clear, I love 99% of what they've done. But this was enough of a dealbreaker to have me come to the forums to complain about it.

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The "eyeliner" has happened to a lot of characters (though I have to admit pure black is a new one for me), myself included. I don't think it's likely to go unnoticed.

Then again, at least in my case, while it looks bad in character creation it *seems* to look ok in the actual benchmark. But it's hard to tell because we can't drone around our character standing still.

We shall see when the updated benchmark drops I guess.

Like I am super glad that CBU3 is listening to us, but man I was shocked to find out they are going release another Benchmark with the proper updates! That's crazy! This dev team really is one of the most fantastic ones I've run into. Can't wait to see what they give us.

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Originally Posted by glassflower

nah i saw the edit, you should just have deleted the post entirely bro

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I'm glad I was there to see it, those were some choice words LOL

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Originally Posted by Mouthbone

I'm glad I was there to see it, those were some choice words LOL

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i screencapped it for posterity, absolutely normal one this friday morning

I'm very happy to hear this and I am looking forward to the new benchmark version. I'm curious to see how many of the issues were caused by the errors mentioned in the post. With the lighting and other bugs fixed, the improved version should make it easier to give accurate and specific feedback.

The snark and sarcasm in some responses is misplaced in my opinion though because we do not know how many of these points were addressed because the feedback brought them to the devs' attention.

It doesn't sound like everything that has been brought up was just a relict of an outdated benchmark. Some of the things sounded like bugs, mistakes or (conscious) changes that are still in the actual game version.

Also, either way, releasing a benchmark that is so outdated and bugged 2 months before your actual title's release will of course cause dissatisfaction.

A benchmark is not the finished product but it is still supposed to give you an idea of what to expect.

From a player's perspective, it's possible they could have fixed certain things but you don't know if they did, and if so, what it is that they fixed.
So if you don't give feedback you also don't know if all of the problems or changes in the benchmark will be addressed by the time of the realse.
Especially in such a short time span. 2 months is a really tight schedule.

And as we have seen, while some things have already been fixed internally, some things have not yet been. So the feedback has had (and continues to have) its value.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

JP:

Person 1: I have a problem.
Person 2: I have another problem.
Person 3: I have the same problem a person 1.

EN:

Person 1: I have a problem.
Person 2: I don't have a problem.
Person 3: There is no problem.
Person 4: Even if there is a problem, you should stop complaining.
Person 5: Problem isn't worth addressing.
Person 6: I have another problem.
Person 7: No, you don't.
etc etc

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Far more like -

EN:

Person 1: I have a problem.
Person 2: I have another problem
Person 3: I have a different problem
Person 4: I don't have a problem and, if it makes you feel any better, I quite like how your character looks now
Person 5: If you have a problem, try this: xxx
Person 1: Stop trying to help me, this doesn't work. You're dismissing my problems. I don't care what you think
Person 2: Don't feed the trolls, just ignore them
Person 5: What did I do?
Person 1: *Resort to insults*

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Originally Posted by glassflower

nah i saw the edit, you should just have deleted the post entirely bro

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only edited so its not reportable but its still the truth, the vast majority of that area are basicly just robots

This is heartening. I’ll continue sharing my concerns not addressed in the message. Afterall, it’s what he WANTS us to do, and has asked us to do everytime something new is implemented into the game. I’ve personally not seen anyone give feedback that isn’t constructive criticism, that would count as “doom and gloom”. We’re doing exactly what the devs want and we need to continue doing so. But we also need to temper our optimism. There’s no guarantee any changes will put things back to a state where we’re completely happy, and honestly that’s to be expected. I only wish I could contribute to the JP forum too, so I’d feel more confident about being heard (or could at least see if some of my unmentioned concerns are shared with that side of the playerbase).

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Originally Posted by Octavia_Deathschoicen

only edited so its not reportable but its still the truth, the vast majority of that area are basicly just robots

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ok so i'm not going to fight with a random freak on the final fantasy xiv official forums when i just came here to talk about mooncat fangs but i think you should probably log off and consider your words. they're vile, uneducated, misinformed and untrue. that blacklist improvement cannot come soon enough because i sincerely hope i never interact with you in game in any capacity.

I am going to be so upset if they end up delaying Dawntrail because of all of this. And don't mess with the female hrothgar. I made the perfect one with Face 4 and I don't want them to overly change anything.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I am going to be so upset if they end up delaying Dawntrail because of all of this. And don't mess with the female hrothgar. I made the perfect one with Face 4 and I don't want them to overly change anything.

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I don't see how this can cause a delay. The date is already announced, unless they want a repeat of EW (fun fact, they don't). Needless to say, their last resort would be to release as is, and then add the updates later.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

It's because of you and other folks that Dawntrail is most likely going to be delayed by 3-4 months with all of these demands. Just waiting for the announcement any day now.

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I goddamn hate saying this, but you are being dramatic.