So Nobody is gonna say it ...ok

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Lol ok

Are these big cats male or female? I insist, show me their feminine facial features, if you can even tell me which ones are female to begin with:
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qi...e6c150a6b59-lq

https://stories.sandiegozoo.org/wp-c...7_0603_021.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a03c7cdc_b.jpg

https://i.redd.it/3kke7bf7yhj71.jpg

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I'm gonna guess male female female male. I agree with your points I just wanted to try.

the best time to delete this was before you posted it and the second best time is right now

Please leave female hrothgars alone, this is exactly what we wanted.

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

They're animals, not anime.

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Oh, let's be honest, they're short female Elezen with a lion-ish head and fur.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Oh, let's be honest, they're short female Elezen with a lion-ish head and fur.

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ACKSHUALLY they are ever so slightly taller than female Elezen :3

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Originally Posted by OogaShaka

The female Hrothgar look like males, every combination tried is the same a very male look. Now don't get me wrong that's fine too but at least add a few more feminine faces maybe take out the silly chest slider and put that money to 2 more feminine faces.This is my opinion but would like to hear if others are of like mind or if way off. tyvm

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the face of lions ar enear indistinguishable without the dimorphic frivolty of things like manes, lor mroe obv things like size and mass

but the face? pretty much the same

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Lol ok

Are these big cats male or female? I insist, show me their feminine facial features, if you can even tell me which ones are female to begin with:
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qi...e6c150a6b59-lq

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That cheetah is most definitely female. Look at her ears. She's been putting up with her husband's/boyfriend's nonsense for too long and she's about to lose her mind.

I'm betting the snow leopard is also female because after running around taking care of the cubs all day, that's the kind of face one would make. ;)

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

That cheetah is most definitely female. Look at her ears. She's been putting up with her husband's/boyfriend's nonsense for too long and she's about to lose her mind.

I'm betting the snow leopard is also female because after running around taking care of the cubs all day, that's the kind of face one would make. ;)

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none o fthese are cheetahs

of which, funfact, female cheetahs are solitary and male cheetahs roam in bands of brothers or "bonded pairs"

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

none o fthese are cheetahs

of which, funfact, female cheetahs are solitary and male cheetahs roam in bands of brothers or "bonded pairs"

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Yup. Easy to distinguish cheetah from leopard by their heads. Coat pattern will just deceive you.

Also fun fact, cheetahs are not members of the great cat family. Cheetahs can and do purr. Great cats cannot.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

none o fthese are cheetahs

of which, funfact, female cheetahs are solitary and male cheetahs roam in bands of brothers or "bonded pairs"

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Another fun fact about cheetahs is that in some zoos they give them emotional support dogs because cheetahs are just anxious af. Though sadly one of the more well known examples passed away a few years ago due to some age related illnesses.

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/...by/9130244002/

Silly everyone knows all cats are girls

I love that the thread evolved into discussing beautiful big cats

https://nationalzoo.si.edu/sites/def...heetah-002.jpg

https://animals.sandiegozoo.org/site...ion%20copy.jpg

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I love that the thread evolved into discussing beautiful big cats
Cheetah

Cougar

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DID YOU DO THIS ON PURPOSE?

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

Trolls & Tauren, wow > Same thing. Male trolls are uniformly ugly by our standards; female trolls can be pretty.

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In WoW's very early alpha designs, the female trolls were gangly and hunched like the males. People complained that the Horde had no "pretty" options (blood elves didn't come until The Burning Crusade), so they were straightened out.

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Originally Posted by Roda

DID YOU DO THIS ON PURPOSE?

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IT'S A PUMA
https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/5d40...b647b3/1x.webp

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

IT'S A PUMA
https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/5d40...b647b3/1x.webp

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NO IT'S A MOUNTAIN LION!

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Originally Posted by Roda

NO IT'S A MOUNTAIN LION!

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I DIDN'T KNOW I SWEAR
https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/58c3...6b6e60/1x.webp

I also believe that irl house cats are way too masculine in nature.

https://www.catster.com/wp-content/u...ange-cat-2.jpg

This is my reworked version. Making the she-cats appear far more feminine at first, second and third glance.

https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/...swift-cats.jpg

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...90/243/646.jpg

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

I also believe that irl house cats are way too masculine in nature.

https://www.catster.com/wp-content/u...ange-cat-2.jpg

This is my reworked version. Making the she-cats appear far more feminine at first, second and third glance.

https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/...swift-cats.jpg

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Yeah I think you're on to something there!

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I love that the thread evolved into discussing beautiful big cats

https://nationalzoo.si.edu/sites/def...heetah-002.jpg

https://animals.sandiegozoo.org/site...ion%20copy.jpg

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Also on these pictures and the previous ones, you can see the source inspiration of why male Miqo'te have those under-eye markings.

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Originally Posted by Roda

NO IT'S A MOUNTAIN LION!

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NO, IT'S A COUGAR!!

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

https://i.redd.it/3kke7bf7yhj71.jpg

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What an adorable derp.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

In WoW's very early alpha designs, the female trolls were gangly and hunched like the males. People complained that the Horde had no "pretty" options (blood elves didn't come until The Burning Crusade), so they were straightened out.

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Fem orcs are right there!

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

I think they look fine. If anything, not beastly enough. Why are male Hroths hunched over with a much more promiment snout and why do female Hroths look like furry Femroes? If we wanna add more feminine faces fo Hrothgals, I want them to also add less "pretty doll" faces to Midlanders, catgirls and Au Ra. A big part of why I'm playing a male character is that basically all of the female characters in this game are insufferably cutesy.

If you don't like tall, somewhat buff women, that's fine. But remember, you're not the only person in the world. Personally, I love them. That's why I married a Roegadame.

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the cognitive dissonance in this reply is truly remarkable, at first you state you want the devs to alter the current features to a more "beastly" nature, then you take issue with the hunch of male hrothgar without the consideration that some may favor it, following these you also list other grievances with the races that maybe antithetical to other player's preferences and to somewhat quote yourself with the cherry that is the hypocrisy of this sundae "If you dont like pretty doll somewhat insufferably cutesy women thats fine, but remember you're not the only person in the world"

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

I've been hoping they redesign irl lions myself. The females are way too bulky. And barely look different from their male counterparts aside from their lack of mane. Observe the hideous specimens below.

https://nationalzoo.si.edu/sites/def...-365MM-web.png

So I've taken it upon myself to rework them so they're way more feminine.
https://gamepress.gg/arknights/sites...12_siege_1.png

As you can see I've improved upon the face, legs, hips, chest and skin. Which will get rid of that pesky manliness.

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the lioness has a more gaunt/narrow facial structure and sharper jawline, as well as a smaller nose, the male has larger eyes & a wider spacing in the forehead & eyes as well as it's overall facial structure this is apparent to anyone with eyes or the mental capacity to observe & compare but im glad you decided to take the time to enlighten everyone in class with not only your inability to see these distinctions but to also show your doodle of the body pillow you have at home as means to present a caricature of the OP's preference in feminine qualities, however you did point out that he has a mane, so i will put your doodle on the fridge with a gold star.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

I'm gonna humor you, because I found this thread interesting. I thought that female Hrothgar looks pretty close to the concept art they have made, but hey, let's look at other games and how they do furry male/female characters, shall we?

Guild Wars 2 Charr
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...336&height=350https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...349&height=350

WoW Tauren and Worgen
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=losslesshttps://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=lossless

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=losslesshttps://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=lossless

Archeage Firran
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...322&height=350

Elder Scrolls Online Khajiit and Argonians
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...&=&format=webp
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...&=&format=webp

So, I don't know man, I think SE did a decent job here.

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im gonna assume this was meant to create the impression that SE did a better job in creating differing features between M&F hrothgar or that femhrothgar are more feminine than the OP suggests im not sure which but these pics were painful to look at but i digress, aside from GW2 the other companies did a decent job in making the distinction between their respective M&F races id go into detail but im slowly losing interest.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

its because op posted in bad faith "The female Hrothgar look like males, every combination tried is the same a very male look. "
they look plenty femenine , and are very in line with their ronso inspieration

but because op posted in bad faith, no one is going to reply in good faith outside of "no u".

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1: your claim as well as the OP's is subjective, everybody has a preference or standard in what they want in their character whether its current or future, there's no evidence to suggest that the OP posted in bad faith, in fact its the opposite , given the evidence in how all parties are conducting themselves in this discussion. to further elucidate this the OP used no language with any insulting/negative connotation simply saying something looks similar (in this case male) is not by any definition egregious they even ended their post with courteous language, conversely you make the accusation with absolute certainty & no evidence, that the OP is acting in bad faith simply because you have a disagreement.

2: the Topic of the thread (i'll be generous & phrase it in the form of a question) is, Do the femhrothgar faces look like or are too similar to the male hrothgar? the OP in their perspective states the affirmative which again is subjective, it is through the misapprehension of the people, such as yourself that are conflating the entirety of the Femhroth & male hroth being overall similar in body/concept & think that this is the OP stance which is not the case.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

to also show your doodle of the body pillow you have at home

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Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

I have a body pillow of Astarion from BG3 and Alucard from Hellsing - thank you very much.

Can't you at least get that right?

Smh.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

the cognitive dissonance in this reply is truly remarkable, at first you state you want the devs to alter the current features to a more "beastly" nature, then you take issue with the hunch of male hrothgar without the consideration that some may favor it, following these you also list other grievances with the races that maybe antithetical to other player's preferences and to somewhat quote yourself with the cherry that is the hypocrisy of this sundae "If you dont like pretty doll somewhat insufferably cutesy women thats fine, but remember you're not the only person in the world"

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I'm not sure if I didn't express myself clearly or if you need to work on your reading comprehension. The OP complains how female Hrothgar are too masculine, I'm saying that it's stupid how male Hrothgars are allowed to look bestial and female Hrothgars are essentially just furry Femroes. I'm tired of games doing that. Not every female character needs to be a supermodel. This annoyed the hell out of me in WoW with Trolls and Orcs. It always reminds me of the meme where male characters all look different and female characters are just human women with different colored skin (and sometimes animal ears).

I LIKE the Hrothgar hunch. I like that they have a snout. I wish Hrothgals had the option to have one, too.

In the rest of my post, I tried to point out that not everything is designed for everyone. I'm personally really freaking sick of every woman in every game needing to look the same because otherwise Gamers (TM) will get their panties in a twist and cry woke or whatever. Because, apparently, every single woman in every piece of media has to be attractive *exclusively to them*. I would personally never play a female Au Ra or Midlander, but I'm not here on the forums telling the devs to change them, so I have no idea what cognitive dissonance you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Emitans

Fem orcs are right there!

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Yeah, but some cowards people don't consider muscles on women attractive.

there is like, what, +500 page thread where people wish and pray and rave for beastly, not anime-cutesy hrothgals

and now it's problem for 2 maybe 3 people? :'D

Female Hrothgar are beautiful and look exactly how they should.

I don't really see the issue!

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Originally Posted by OogaShaka

The female Hrothgar look like males, every combination tried is the same a very male look. Now don't get me wrong that's fine too but at least add a few more feminine faces maybe take out the silly chest slider and put that money to 2 more feminine faces.This is my opinion but would like to hear if others are of like mind or if way off. tyvm

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I think we need to see how more hairstyles contribute to the femininity. Personally I'm hoping for more too. The bodies although muscular and somewhat masculine seem better to me than what I expected to be more of a Roe clone.

It will be interesting to see what the modding community does with the race.

I have a male Hrothgar sitting in Greatwood in Main Story after a skip in Shadowbringer's. I could never really get into using him much. He's certainly scheduled for a sex change upon release and potentially another skip.

Was personally hoping Story Skips would be part of the release although given nothing has be said relative to this to my knowledge I don't think we're getting free ones. Mainly interested in story skips given my characters are all 90.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

I'm not sure if I didn't express myself clearly or if you need to work on your reading comprehension. The OP complains how female Hrothgar are too masculine, I'm saying that it's stupid how male Hrothgars are allowed to look bestial and female Hrothgars are essentially just furry Femroes. I'm tired of games doing that. Not every female character needs to be a supermodel. This annoyed the hell out of me in WoW with Trolls and Orcs. It always reminds me of the meme where male characters all look different and female characters are just human women with different colored skin (and sometimes animal ears).

I LIKE the Hrothgar hunch. I like that they have a snout. I wish Hrothgals had the option to have one, too.

In the rest of my post, I tried to point out that not everything is designed for everyone. I'm personally really freaking sick of every woman in every game needing to look the same because otherwise Gamers (TM) will get their panties in a twist and cry woke or whatever. Because, apparently, every single woman in every piece of media has to be attractive *exclusively to them*. I would personally never play a female Au Ra or Midlander, but I'm not here on the forums telling the devs to change them, so I have no idea what cognitive dissonance you're talking about.

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You are indeed correct in that you did not articulate yourself well enough to express a favorable view of the hunch I'll concede on that, however in regards to one's reading comprehension the fault is yours alone. I'll do my best to convey how your argument is flawed as well as explain to you what cognitive dissonance/hypocrisy is.

1: the OP takes issue with how the male & female faces are similar not the entirety of the race itself, the use of the term feminine is used as means to convey a form of distinction and the desire for that distinction as it is not known to anyone except the OP as to what standard of femininity the OP has, if the OP had requested "more cute faces" then the topic wouldn't be Masculine vs feminine.

2: the examples you made in your previous post are exactly what is emblematic of hypocrisy especially when you state the obvious that not everything is for everyone, the only difference is as you pointed out is that you're not vocal about it. Also the OP is not requesting changes rather they're asking for additions, these are not the same and further demonstrates yours as well as others lack of reading comprehension.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

aaaaah, a devil's advocate (and one of the most arrogant post I ever saw on this forum, but it's a good taunt, so I'll give you that). Let the feast begin. More seriously : people are reactive to this request because, for a lot of FFXIV races, females have no way of looking more masculine. And not "masculine" in the androgynous sense; masculine in the "I don't lool like someone who breaks a nail as soon as she wants to handle something heavier than a book" sense. People understood very well that the OP wasn't asking to remove existing faces; they're against the slightest possibility of making something more "feminine", which would be perceived as a betrayal for the race's identity. All in all, you're the one who's misunderstood the thread: people are against the proposed variety, nothing more, nothing less.

It would have been good, however, if the OP had also been more specific in its request. Because "femininity" is a vast concept, with many definitions that vary from culture to culture and even from person to person. In concrete terms, if femininity is conceived as a dismoprhism vis-à-vis the male sex, then it's already present in the Hrothgar model. The muzzle is narrower, the jaw less square, and the eyes slightly larger. It seems to me that, even without the breasts, it would be possible to see a photo of Hrothgar and recognize it as female.

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A CHALLENGER HAS APPEARED!!!
The 1st part of your post is just sophistry in what can be considered masculine or feminine & im not gonna go to far into it except to point out a flaw to use as an example
1: female highlanders can be considered masculine due to their posture if that is a basis for ones subjective view of a masculine feature
However despite this potential masculine trait the thighlander is obvious in its distinction from its male counter part.

proposed variety does not betray the "race's identity" as changing the identity changes the race itself, is OP asking to remove the fur, tail ,posture or any other feature? The answer to this riddle is no.
I don't know how what you're basing the "race identity" off of but without any reasoning I'm just pass over on this.

It's truly remarkable that in the same breath you concede that you're not sure as to what the OP means when asking for feminine faces all the while saying everyone knows what the OP is asking for

You must be really bored, Ryan. Maybe play a game? There is this critically acclaimed MMORPG I heard of that might be worth a try. Eternal Fantasy or something.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

A CHALLENGER HAS APPEARED!!!
The 1st part of your post is just sophistry in what can be considered masculine or feminine & im not gonna go to far into it except to point out a flaw to use as an example
1: female highlanders can be considered masculine due to their posture if that is a basis for ones subjective view of a masculine feature
However despite this potential masculine trait the thighlander is obvious in its distinction from its male counter part.

proposed variety does not betray the "race's identity" as changing the identity changes the race itself, is OP asking to remove the fur, tail ,posture or any other feature? The answer to this riddle is no.
I don't know how what you're basing the "race identity" off of but without any reasoning I'm just pass over on this.

It's truly remarkable that in the same breath you concede that you're not sure as to what the OP means when asking for feminine faces all the while saying everyone knows what the OP is asking for

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The very principle of the thread forces us to make sophistry about femininity and masculinity: as the OP has at no point specified what he or she means by this, it's open to personal interpretation. We could, of course, try to come up with a precise definition of these terms before continuing the "debate"; but I think we'll still be stuck on this question several weeks from now, and neither you nor I have the time (or inclination) for that. So we're going to have to accept a few shortcuts, in order to keep the conversation moving forward.

Getting back to FF, the game offers different versions of femininity. But each version is intrinsically linked to the race played. The tomboyish side of the Roe is not reproducible in the Miqote, whose features and mannerisms are more "kawai". Midlanders are cuter than Highlanders, in appearance, emotes and gait. In short, choosing a race also means choosing the type of femininity you want to play. Which is more or less in line with reality: a French 'woman' does not conceive of femininity in the same way as a Japanese woman; who does not conceive of femininity in the same way as an Eastern European woman. The way in which femininity is conceived is linked to the social structure of a given people, and FF reproduces it relatively faithfully.

Hence my assertion that proposing a variety here would be inconsistent with the identity of the race. No, this identity is not limited to the ears, fur and tail, but also to the way of speaking, the gait, the culture... And the relationship between the sexes. From that point of view, the 'variety' that you defend can be seen as a betrayal of the Horthgar identity, because it implicitly transforms the cultural and social relationship that the race has with femininity. To give a final example, and to talk a little about these gentlemen: if we were allowed to create extremely tall, muscular male Viera, much less androgynous than those present here, then we'd also be touching on the lore of the race because this difference in physique is less suited to the idea of female Amazons, whose males hide away to carry out their task in the shadows.

As for your last sentence: there's no contradiction between pointing out that the op lacked precision and saying that the speakers interpreted it in such and such a way. If the op doesn't bother to specify, then implicitly they accepts that people interpret it in a certain way; and that's exactly what has been done on this thread, with people having understood this question of femininity in a rather uniform way. Come on: if we're going to enjoy a good old-fashioned forum brawl, let's do it properly and not settle for elyptic, prideful little phrases ("that's remarkable"; "it's incredible that you don't understand" and all the derivatives).

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Originally Posted by Minali

You must be really bored, Ryan. Maybe play a game? There is this critically acclaimed MMORPG I heard of that might be worth a try. Eternal Fantasy or something.

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I've got a lot of downtime at work and I want some amusement from you people. Pretty sure my intent was disclosed in my 1st post

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

I've got a lot of downtime at work and I want some amusement from you people. Pretty sure my intent was disclosed in my 1st post

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Do you have friends irl that you talk to like this? No, right?