DT releases in TWO MONTHS - they aren't going to overhaul the graphics update now.

Smal indie company please look forward to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cakesphere

For me fantasia is not the answer. There is nothing in the updated CC that gives me the current look of my WoL. They completely took all the sharp angles from elezen faces. It's abysmal.

This whole thing is coming off so half-cooked. I'm very disappointed.

EDIT: I don't give a hoot if -you're- fine with the changes. Good for you. The forums are here to leave feedback and I am leaving some for the devs. Thank you.

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The new Elezen faces look bland, generic, and the skin tone is waxy. And I agree. This is the place to leave feedback. There is an interesting post here on skin transparency that provides some specifics about what may have gone wrong

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

You all realize they aren't going to toss out years of work because you all are screaming on the forums, right? It's understandable after 10 years with the same graphical style, changes are going to be alarming and jarring, and not everyone is going to be happy. But they aren't going to suddenly in the next TWO months rework everything based on forum complaints.

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Many of the character models have broken/improperly weighed meshes resulting in mesh splits in the arms and necks. Female Au Ra look like their heads are about to float away from their torso and roegadudes have arms that aren't connected to their torsos. They absolutely need to fix these glaring issues 100%, and they should also stick to their word when they said they know people get attached to the look of their character so they aren't going to change them.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Also, it seems like its only the official forums everyone is screaming with torches and pitch forks - Twitter, Reddit everyone else is responding with people much more positive and happy, so don't think the forums are the majority and everyone hates it. And attacking the devs and Yoshi P won't solve anything. Media tour is starting. Get on the train or get off.

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Yeah I don't think that we're reading the same twitter or reddit posts because I'm seeing lots of criticism all over twitter and reddit.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Also, it seems like its only the official forums everyone is screaming with torches and pitch forks - Twitter, Reddit everyone else is responding with people much more positive and happy, so don't think the forums are the majority and everyone hates it. And attacking the devs and Yoshi P won't solve anything. Media tour is starting. Get on the train or get off.

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What kind of bubble do you live in? The updates are getting criticism from everywhere - even JP and KR are upset on their respective forums/SM (haven't seen any CN people posting about it).

They still want to hear feedback and encouraged players to send feedback with the benchmark. You shouldn't be surprised people are doing just that, OP. The devs want to hear what they can improve upon, and the devs are the one who set the timing for the release of the benchmark and the expac.

yeah this is the best time to leave feedback as two months before release on something this big, the game must be feature-complete and they're in the QA/optimization/improvements phase.

but that also means that yes, they can't just throw everything out or make huge system changes this close to release. for one, it is physically impossible for squishy humans working 8 hr days to replicate all that effort in such a short of a time. for two, huge changes mean that your QA efforts are completely wasted and have to be restarted, probably from scratch because how can you trust your previous results? (source: am a QA in the tech industry, for websites though, not games)

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

I just like how this one article from 2023 states;

"The goal is to improve the overall look you know and love, rather than to change things to meet a certain threshold. Players have been playing for 10 years, so they want to prioritize and take care to avoid situations where people don’t feel their character looks theirs."

"Yoshida says the final version will be of higher quality, but they really did take care to make sure that your impressions of the characters wouldn’t change. The hair texture, eyes, and skin were ones they paid particular attention to."

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Just bringing this to the later pages since they stated this to be their goal but suffice to say they didn't hit the mark here.

I like the way my Elezen turned out in the new graphics engine. She looks about the same as she ever did, but somehow more "fresh." Loaded up that benchmark and was like "AYOOOO, DAT'S MAH GURL!!!"

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Keep sending feedback. Just try not to be an overdramatic dick about it.

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The FFXIV Official Forums "Be Normal For Once" Challenge (Impossible)

Okay but seriously, I know as much as anyone how attached a gamer can get to their beloved characters, and if weird changes are forced upon them that just naturally invites ire. I hope these issues can be solved, through further adjustments, or more options, or re-tweaking in the character creation menu again so players can restore their original vibe.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

You all realize they aren't going to toss out years of work because you all are screaming on the forums, right? It's understandable after 10 years with the same graphical style, changes are going to be alarming and jarring, and not everyone is going to be happy. But they aren't going to suddenly in the next TWO months rework everything based on forum complaints.

These are the updates. They might be able to do minor tweaks here and there, but I am seeing folks demand the update be option, they toss the entire thing out and start over or just flat-out delay Dawntrail to redo it and that is NOT happening.

You're going to get your fantasia, you will make the new graphics work for you...or you won't. It really is that simple. I understand many folks are upset, but to expect the FF14 team is going to do some massive changes in just two months isn't realistic. They have the benchmark because this is how the characters are going to look.

Also, to judge based solely on the CC and a benchmark and not actually be in the game world to take advantage of the new lighting and how things interact is a bit jumping the gun. I am sure they will release tweaks in post 7.0 patches as well, but nothing is going to be massively drastic. This is what the devs went with. End of story. Some of the changes I am seeing folks demand on here could take MONTHS. We don't have that kind of time.

Also, it seems like its only the official forums everyone is screaming with torches and pitch forks - Twitter, Reddit everyone else is responding with people much more positive and happy, so don't think the forums are the majority and everyone hates it. And attacking the devs and Yoshi P won't solve anything. Media tour is starting. Get on the train or get off.

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There are people complaining on Reddit. There are people complaining on Twitter both from EN and JP speaking community.
You don't have to defend the indie company. We just want to give our feedback so they can have something to work on later.

Beside, they literally broken their promises about trying to not change things too much.

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Originally Posted by Rudje

What else should we react to? There is literally nothing else to react to, and this is in fact why people offered feedback on the previews when those were all that we had to react to, and we still had people telling us to wait for the benchmark then. I've seen problems brought up then that still haven't been addressed, in fact!

I'm very firmly of the opinion that if the player faces can't be fixed in time for DT, it should be kicked down the road at least a major patch. The current quality is completely unacceptable and it's precisely because I don't think it'll be fixed in time that I don't think it should be included at all.

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They can't just delay the graphics update and release Dawntrail. Dawntrail was made with the graphics update. You can't delay the graphics update without delaying female hrothgar. They aren't going to push back including the new race. End of the day. Dawntrail isn't being delayed, that was guaranteed. The train has left the station. The media tour is happening in a few short weeks. They won't please everyone. Many folks will probably never be happy. I am sure they will tweak things that they can, but I am seeing a lot of unrealistic demands and expectations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

They can't just delay the graphics update and release Dawntrail. Dawntrail was made with the graphics update. You can't delay the graphics update without delaying female hrothgar. They aren't going to push back including the new race. End of the day. Dawntrail isn't being delayed, that was guaranteed. The train has left the station. The media tour is happening in a few short weeks. They won't please everyone. Many folks will probably never be happy. I am sure they will tweak things that they can, but I am seeing a lot of unrealistic demands and expectations.

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Why are you so upset that people are providing feedback? Square is not going to call you back btw.

Honestly, OP...I think you're just triggered by that one thread's title that you felt the need to make your own thread. No one is attacking Yoshi P or the devs, people are providing feedback and some are expressing how they feel about the changes.

Stop trying to gaslight people into silence when they should be providing feedback. No one's demanding immediate change- people just want to be heard and hope that maybe they can have some changes so they can enjoy the expansion with the characters they knew and loved.

EW was delayed because Yoshi P felt like it needed to and EW introduced a new race as well.

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Originally Posted by Rueby

Honestly, OP...I think you're just triggered by that one thread's title that you felt the need to make your own thread. No one is attacking Yoshi P or the devs, people are providing feedback and some are expressing how they feel about the changes.

Stop trying to gaslight people into silence when they should be providing feedback. No one's demanding immediate change- people just want to be heard and hope that maybe they can have some changes so they can enjoy the expansion with the characters they knew and loved.

EW was delayed because Yoshi P felt like it needed to and EW introduced a new race as well.

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"After the release of the benchmark, we will continue to make improvements to the game's visual fidelity in the lead up to the release of FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail." From the benchmark page tucked away as the wonderful fine red print..

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Originally Posted by cakesphere

Why are you so upset that people are providing feedback? Square is not going to call you back btw.

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I was going to comment the same. Customers of a product are giving feedback on the changes in the space provided by the devs to give feedback... why are they getting upset on behalf of people they don't even know!?

This is a live service game, adapting to continued feedback is needed if they want to us to keep paying a sub.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

You all realize they aren't going to toss out years of work because you all are screaming on the forums, right?

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Nobody asks them to toss out years of work, but at least fixing outright bad texture work and tweak some models/bones a bit wont take years to do.

Everything else looks gorgeous, locations looks amazing, but there are problems with character models. There are troubles if only like 2-3 races looks ok, and everyone else got butchered.

There is a difference between "my character looks different in new graphics" and "my character doesn't look himself". Like some charas look 10 years older/younger overall.

I was expecting that I maybe will switch from au ra to miqo'te after I saw their screens at streams, but my miqo looks weird too. It's not really fun to skim through all my charas to find one that looks actually ok, like legitimately like the one I would play.

OP, Regardless of where you stand on many other topics.

It's so cut and dry, that Clive couldn't call on Odin at all anymore.

If a person goes alil overboard that's there issue. but they are just a drop in the lake of players.

Everyone everywhere expressed happiness over the Grass, Flowers, Anti-Aliasing Concepts.

And with the time given to them, express their feedback of the graphics update shown by the Benchmark.
it's not like people are trying to Erase their own races specialty. (except maybe the few suncats who realized now, that the majority don't care/want the fangs to become Race wide. And enjoy the specialty and differences between the two. only their office meeting room does.)

While those players may try to sneak in their wants. The things everyone in near totality is saying, that the few things that are core and not at all, unable to be done. Can/Should be fixed. Whenever that is, they are being heard almost unanimously.

Just like it was for Au Ra Scales/Eyes (which I was part of, for the Eyes.)

Don't let the Bad faith, or those who have trouble expressing their wants level-headedly dictate if we can even give feedback that the Devs wanted. IN THE FIRST PLACE.

strange thread and for an mmorpg/live-service game of all games. Dawntrail could come out tomorrow and this thread would still be strange. you know they still work on the game after the release right?

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

OP, Regardless of where you stand on many other topics.

It's so cut and dry, that Clive couldn't call on Odin at all anymore.

If a person goes alil overboard that's there issue. but they are just a drop in the lake of players.

Everyone everywhere expressed happiness over the Grass, Flowers, Anti-Aliasing Concepts.

And with the time given to them, express their feedback of the graphics update shown by the Benchmark.
it's not like people are trying to Erase their own races specialty. (except maybe the few suncats who realized now, that the majority don't care/want the fangs to become Race wide. And enjoy the specialty and differences between the two. only their office meeting room does.)

While those players may try to sneak in their wants. The things everyone in near totality is saying, that the few things that are core and not at all, unable to be done. Can/Should be fixed. Whenever that is, they are being heard almost unanimously.

Just like it was for Au Ra Scales/Eyes (which I was part of, for the Eyes.)

Don't let the Bad faith, or those who have trouble expressing their wants level-headedly dictate if we can even give feedback that the Devs wanted. IN THE FIRST PLACE.

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Look at my post above the devs basically gave a answer to benchmark feed back before the feed back was given.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Look at my post above the devs basically gave a answer to benchmark feed back before the feed back was given.

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Not looking at the post, cause I already know.
And I'm just partaking to put another nail in the coffin for good measure.

Continual Pushing of Check post, no need to reply.
Just asks players to add more nails to the coffin.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Also, it seems like its only the official forums everyone is screaming with torches and pitch forks - Twitter, Reddit everyone else is responding with people much more positive and happy, so don't think the forums are the majority and everyone hates it. And attacking the devs and Yoshi P won't solve anything. Media tour is starting. Get on the train or get off.

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Sorry but are you actually unable to see the difference between customer feedback and what attacking the devs is? We are PAYING to play this game so obviously they are obligated to hear our opinions and criticisms on what is okay or not. The way you put it as though square enix is a small indie comp hard at work and shouldn’t be receiving negative feedback. Dawntrail may be in a few months they themselves have said they will continue to improve after the benchmark, they don’t need your sorry, pathetic self to defend them when they are simply receiving feedback.

Go play some ea game if you want to “defend the multimillion dollar company” so bad. The quote you keep spamming speaks for you if anything.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Also, it seems like its only the official forums everyone is screaming with torches and pitch forks - Twitter, Reddit everyone else is responding with people much more positive and happy, so don't think the forums are the majority and everyone hates it. And attacking the devs and Yoshi P won't solve anything. Media tour is starting. Get on the train or get off.

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The official forums feedback naturally attracts more negative responses; people assume the developers look at their official forums over sources like reddit or twitter, when this actually isn't the case. The level of engagement for a post here is what... maybe 40-60 likes if its' really popular? Meanwhile a similar topic on Reddit or Twitter has thousands of upvotes of engagement. It's folly to assume the winning opinion on the official forums carries anywhere near the same weight as more diverse conversations happening on Reddit, Twitter, or wherever else.

I understand this thread but I don't think it's entirely right. There's a lot of posts here, but none of them mean anything.
Your feedback is useless if it's just complaining and not actually feedback.
Try to compose yourselves enough to write statements that are useful.

Useful: "The fangs of the keepers are too short! Please make them long again!
Useless: "I dont like the keepers fangs!"

Version 1 gives clear instructions
Version 2 is just your feelings. Your feelings leave no instructions.
Please type less of your feelings, and more direct suggestions.

Direct suggestions. DIRECT. Suggestions. Please make direct APPLICABLE suggestions.

They won't overhaul, but I do believe they said they'll be tweaking some things. I am looking forwards to seeing the changes on console, but I can understand seeing some of the pictures how jarring the changes look for some. Either way, I believe they'll have a team working on this, just as they have teams for environments and teams for dungeons etc, so it should detract from work happening to other things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warkupo

The official forums feedback naturally attracts more negative responses; people assume the developers look at their official forums over sources like reddit or twitter, when this actually isn't the case. The level of engagement for a post here is what... maybe 40-60 likes if its' really popular? Meanwhile a similar topic on Reddit or Twitter has thousands of upvotes of engagement. It's folly to assume the winning opinion on the official forums carries anywhere near the same weight as more diverse conversations happening on Reddit, Twitter, or wherever else.

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Forced to agree - the best we could really hope is that Redditors post links to the high-engagement threads on the subject here.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

You all realize they aren't going to toss out years of work because you all are screaming on the forums, right? It's understandable after 10 years with the same graphical style, changes are going to be alarming and jarring, and not everyone is going to be happy. But they aren't going to suddenly in the next TWO months rework everything based on forum complaints.

These are the updates. They might be able to do minor tweaks here and there, but I am seeing folks demand the update be option, they toss the entire thing out and start over or just flat-out delay Dawntrail to redo it and that is NOT happening.

You're going to get your fantasia, you will make the new graphics work for you...or you won't. It really is that simple. I understand many folks are upset, but to expect the FF14 team is going to do some massive changes in just two months isn't realistic. They have the benchmark because this is how the characters are going to look.

Also, to judge based solely on the CC and a benchmark and not actually be in the game world to take advantage of the new lighting and how things interact is a bit jumping the gun. I am sure they will release tweaks in post 7.0 patches as well, but nothing is going to be massively drastic. This is what the devs went with. End of story. Some of the changes I am seeing folks demand on here could take MONTHS. We don't have that kind of time.

Also, it seems like its only the official forums everyone is screaming with torches and pitch forks - Twitter, Reddit everyone else is responding with people much more positive and happy, so don't think the forums are the majority and everyone hates it. And attacking the devs and Yoshi P won't solve anything. Media tour is starting. Get on the train or get off.

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Feedback should be welcome regardless of the circumstances.

Also, as far as "get on or get off", a large chunk of people will just mod the game either way. I can also see this being a catalyst for vanilla players to be pushed towards using them for the first time if the way characters look now isn't good enough for them. Kind of an irrelevant comment/threat to make imo when people have been dodging "get on or get off" for years now.

So OP is telling us the developer decisions are absolute and that our feedback is useless. Being a corporate bootlicker is just as bad as someone that screams negativity into the void. I'm glad you're fine with the proposed state of the game, but some of us actually want the game to be better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naple

So OP is telling us the developer decisions are absolute and that our feedback is useless. Being a corporate bootlicker is just as bad as someone that screams negativity into the void. I'm glad you're fine with the proposed state of the game, but some of us actually want the game to be better.

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What's better for some might be worse for others.
I see a lot of people complaining but I also see people who are happy with the changes.
I see some who dislike the changes to a certain face while others are thrilled with the changes for that very same face.
Who should SE listen to? Should they reverse the changes for those who dislike it, or keep them for those who like them?
Which one is better?

I agree that there are a lot that could get better, like the lighting, lips, eyes to mention the big ones.
I see many who say that "it's not even the same character anymore", where me, as someone who hasn't played that character for x years barely see any difference.
Some are ofc more noticable than others. But many I think more or less look the same but smoother features and less sharp edges.
The changes are bigger to some than others since there are those who have gotten familiar with a character for years and the features are so deeply imprinted that any change will be noticable.
I honestly think that there are many who overreact to the innitial shock that comes with the benchmark.
That being said, there are things that certainly needs more finetuning, and the Benchmark isn't the final product, as they've said that they'll keep on refining things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naple

So OP is telling us the developer decisions are absolute and that our feedback is useless. Being a corporate bootlicker is just as bad as someone that screams negativity into the void. I'm glad you're fine with the proposed state of the game, but some of us actually want the game to be better.

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To be fair, EN feedback is mostly useless regardless. Time and time again they've shown they really don't read the EN forums and just read the JP forums.

The launch gonna be a mess. It's the one thing that was supposed to kinda be the "redemption" (word is strong, but I don't have any better for now) after the mixed reception of the EW patch, and it's already going south, when it's they not even finished (I you ran the Benchmark with your game data, you can see some of the haircuts have not been fixed yet). DT launch will look that, and people will be mad. And this time everyone will be affected, not only the endgame players/players that completed their backlog. I expect some really bad press.

There aren't going to be wide sweeping changes or rollbacks, but they can take care of technical issues and losses of clan-specific features (like pupil sizes between Rava and Veena), hair clipping into the heads where it didn't before, bits of hair being gone outright, or the fact that Moonie fangs are way too small.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

The launch gonna be a mess.

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Maybe I will actually be able to login on Launch day instead of sitting in a queue for hours thanks to this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Maybe I will be actually be able to login on Launch instead of sitting in a queue for hours thanks to this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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lmao I was about to post the same thing you beat me to it!

You know what - you all are right in many ways and if folks want to express their disappointment or hope for changes to the dev teams for future patch cycles, all the power to them.

I just feel like things can get one-sided, so you have folks happy with the updates...what about them? If SE decides to make changes based on other folks feedback, now they may end up with something they don't like.

End of the day though, I am looking at this through a selfish lens. I've played 10 years, I love this game and understand character attachment. I am switching to female hrothgar for Dawntrail and love them, so I do not have to fiddle with my current character, and that puts me in a different boat.

Selfishly, much of my reactions stems from the possibility of Dawntrail being delayed because of all the complaints, and the content drought is already growing long. I fear what folks are asking for could be 6 months or more worth of work. Yes, I could unsub for awhile, but I have to pay my sub to keep the house I've worked so hard for. So, the thought of no new content for even longer is a frustration.

Hopefully, it all works out and folks can see some of the changes they hope for and it doesn't disrupt the release. Regardless, I go ahead and admit my reactions were a bit harsh and apologize for discrediting some folks feelings and concerns.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I just feel like things can get one-sided, so you have folks happy with the updates...what about them? If SE decides to make changes based on other folks feedback, now they may end up with something they don't like.

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Find me one person who isn't a SE shill that approves of the removal of Keeper fangs, no Hellsguard nose, botched Viera lip jobs, face 3 male Viera dirt nose, badly upscaled Au Ra scales, female Elezen mouth, and Lala piranha teeth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Find me one person who isn't a SE shill that approves of the removal of Keeper fangs, no Hellsguard nose, botched Viera lip jobs, face 3 male Viera dirt nose, badly upscaled Au Ra scales, female Elezen mouth, and Lala piranha teeth.

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lala piranha teeth? sounds metal af.
evil potatoes with razor sharp teeth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I just feel like things can get one-sided, so you have folks happy with the updates...what about them? If SE decides to make changes based on other folks feedback, now they may end up with something they don't like

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Then make your own thread?

This is not a dialogue between us and the devs, we are not friends or on the same level, we are just customer leaving feedback to a corporation. If you had a bad meal at a restaurant do you go "hey but what about all the other people who liked it" when you leave a review or just say you didn't like it? It's up to the owner to change the recipe or not afterwards. What's so hard to understand?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Find me one person who isn't a SE shill that approves of the removal of Keeper fangs, no Hellsguard nose, botched Viera lip jobs, face 3 male Viera dirt nose, badly upscaled Au Ra scales, female Elezen mouth, and Lala piranha teeth.

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If you hate SE so much why not go elsewhere and spend your money with a company you so obviously despise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

If you hate SE so much why not go elsewhere and spend your money with a company you so obviously despise.

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WoW literally just dropped the coolest character I've ever seen (Xal'atath) and I've been itching to retry it ever since. This may just force my hand :/
I don't despise CBU3. I'm mostly just baffled at how they managed to miss the mark so badly in so many ways with regards to this overhaul. Hope this makes sense.

The female elezen mouth is a **** joke lmao. I feel so bad for the felezens rn. I feel so bad for everyone whose WoL isn't the way they remember tbqh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

If you hate SE so much why not go elsewhere and spend your money with a company you so obviously despise.

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You can criticize a game and some decisions made by developers while still recognizing its a good game. People giving feedback mean they still care. But at the same time, many people are fed up with this toxic positivity where SE can do no wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I just feel like things can get one-sided, so you have folks happy with the updates...what about them? If SE decides to make changes based on other folks feedback, now they may end up with something they don't like.

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This is genuinely so werird. It's not just contrarianism, but toxic positivity on top of it. You're so afraid that people will give feedback about how they feel and hurt the devs' feelings that you want to water down their feedback with your own counter-feedback.
Or that people will give feedback and some imaginary 3rd person will be upset that things were changed based on feedback.