Solution 9 - Unfounded Speculation!

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Originally Posted by Cassar

Would be cool if "Solution 9" means it's the 9th solution they thought of. Maybe Solution 9 was the one that involved transporting your whole city into a different shard (which happened to land on the source), but it also meant leaving the rest of your world behind. Could've been their last resort, after all the other solutions failed. They could've come from any shard, not necessarily shard 9. Maybe even from the most ancient shard (the first that was rejoined, whichever that one was) which would explain why their alphabet is so close to the ancient's and also would explain the high tech: they've lived for longer than any other civilization in the Source.

Honestly as cool as this theory sounds, it almost sounds too... obvious? simple? I don't know, I'm not fully buying it but as of right now that's the most interesting thing that I can think of. I'm ready to be surprised though!

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It does seem a little too 'on the nose', but I don't think that means it should be discounted. Even the obvious can be good when done right, especially when everyone overlooks it for being too obvious.

I have seen people make the Azem connection. That this could be their doing, since we don't know what they did during the final days. It is worth pointing out that the title of the expansion, Dawntrail/Golden Legacy, does heavily point at an Azem connection.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Umbra

I think they've been in contact/interaction with Garleans in New World due to all the Ceruleum & very Garlean looking train in Heritage Concept shot & all the external structures looking very similar to Garlean Castrums designs walls/structures around Eozera just purple instead of red.

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I think Limsa Lominsa is far more likely than Garlemald in this case. We know for an absolute fact that Lominsans were and still are exploring the continent for ceruleum. Trains aren't anything new to Eorzeans either since Thanalan has their own non-Garlean train tracks and Ul'dah has their own ceruleum operation opposing the Garleans. The Ul'dahn ceruleum mining infrastructure could be seen in 1.0 and looks similar to Shaaloani as well.

There's also the fact that Garlemald has an entire lake full of ceruleum a stone's throw from their city, why would they need a deposit on the other side of the world through Lominsan-infested waters across an ocean too vast to cross via airship? The only reason they were drilling for ceruleum in Thanalan is to supply the local invasion.

Unless gods-forbid there's a legion in the New World, I don't think they'd have a hand in anything over there. The Empire was focused on the Three Great Continents and they had their hands full with Aldenard and Othard. I think Solution Nine is just it's own thing and the infrastructure for ceruleum mining we've seen is either related to Solution Nine's influence on Shaaloani, Limsa Lominsa's influence on Shaaloani, or Shaaloani has their own native wild west aesthetic and culture and they were drilling ceruleum for their own benefit.

My speculation is this is linked to Azem. We've seen evidence that the scripts used by the Ancients is in Solution 9. We also have the purposeful plot hole about what Azem was doing during the final days. We also know from Shadowbringers that Amourot had a sister city. The title Dawntrail references the sun, which we know is the symbol of Azem. Azem wasn't born in Amourot because they were discovered by Venat during her adventures outside of Amourot. And frankly, Azem not returning to Amourot for the summoning of Zodiark and Hydaelyn, which really was a civil war between their former teacher/advisor and their closest friend, implies that Azem was doing something much more important than the sundering.

And don't forget the cryptic message from New Years, speaking of the expansion as question if it's a new adventure or a homecoming. In a literal sense it's a new adventure for the players/Scions and homecoming for new Hrothgar woman. But it could also be a metaphor the WOL's new adventure which is also a homecoming for Azem.

Basic speculation. Throwing out here possibly what Emet was mentioning about in Ultima Thule.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

My speculation is this is linked to Azem. We've seen evidence that the scripts used by the Ancients is in Solution 9. We also have the purposeful plot hole about what Azem was doing during the final days. We also know from Shadowbringers that Amourot had a sister city. The title Dawntrail references the sun, which we know is the symbol of Azem. Azem wasn't born in Amourot because they were discovered by Venat during her adventures outside of Amourot. And frankly, Azem not returning to Amourot for the summoning of Zodiark and Hydaelyn, which really was a civil war between their former teacher/advisor and their closest friend, implies that Azem was doing something much more important than the sundering.

And don't forget the cryptic message from New Years, speaking of the expansion as question if it's a new adventure or a homecoming. In a literal sense it's a new adventure for the players/Scions and homecoming for new Hrothgar woman. But it could also be a metaphor the WOL's new adventure which is also a homecoming for Azem.

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Citation needed to Azem wasn't born in Amaurot. That is a faulty assumption. Azem could have been born in Amaurot and roamed around when he/she became of age or when they wanted too and thus because someone meets someone one outside while traveling it doesn't mean they were or weren't born outside of an area.

After looking at the new relics, I have to say. I wonder if this is somehow linked to Manderville.....

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Citation needed to Azem wasn't born in Amaurot. That is a faulty assumption. Azem could have been born in Amaurot and roamed around when he/she became of age or when they wanted too and thus because someone meets someone one outside while traveling it doesn't mean they were or weren't born outside of an area.

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Citation: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../#sidestory_01

The passage: Thus when Venat announced her decision to relinquish her office, it was that much more unexpected. A jest, surely. Yet she spoke in glowing terms of her chosen successor, a "fascinating man" she had met on her travels.

"You would surrender the seat of Azem with so much left undone?" the archivist asked, still reeling at the implications.

"A true traveler has no need of a title," Venat said. "And my replacement would benefit greatly from the opportunities granted by the appointment."

“The journey is different for each who undertake it. Even following the same route, and visiting the same destinations, he will have different thoughts and experiences. He will make his own discoveries, and observe that which I failed to perceive."

My reply: It's a faulty assumption to just assume Azem was born in Amourot because the text doesn't explicitly say so. The vagueness of being met during travels without saying something along the lines of a "fellow Amourotian" or a "younger ancient" proves they have to be from somewhere not Amourot. How often to do you go out of town, make new friends, then just assume they will live where you do? If you meet a romantic partner on vacation isn't it silly to just assume they will live near you?

Furthermore, at this point in the narrative, there is no point in hiding the fact that the player's Azem is from Amourot. We are talking about plot points that are 2 expansions old. They are being vague because there is more to tell. The following lines about the player's Azem having their own thoughts, experiences and discoveries really lays out the road to who and what Azem are, more importantly, what was so important they didn't intervene in a civil war between their mentor and best friends.

Lastly, this isn't the first time you've attacked my posts by claiming my evidence is bad or my logic is bad. I don't know what I ever did that upset you in the first place. But dig up our old posts from a few years ago and you'll see that you've had a problem with anything I say over and over. I'm here to speculate in a speculation thread. I'd prefer a discussion without the combative tone.

My guess is, that Solution 9 is a digital repository of consciousness from people trying to escape the final days or one of the calamities. In a digital world there is no need for things like work and survival and therefore entertainment would be king. The Arcadion seems to me to be a play on the word Arcade. The clue of it looking like a big GPU is that it could be a big game. Maybe over the course of time the consciousness's inside have needed more and more extreme versions of entertainment and The Arcadion is their version of a coliseum.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Citation: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../#sidestory_01

The passage: Thus when Venat announced her decision to relinquish her office, it was that much more unexpected. A jest, surely. Yet she spoke in glowing terms of her chosen successor, a "fascinating man" she had met on her travels.

"You would surrender the seat of Azem with so much left undone?" the archivist asked, still reeling at the implications.

"A true traveler has no need of a title," Venat said. "And my replacement would benefit greatly from the opportunities granted by the appointment."

“The journey is different for each who undertake it. Even following the same route, and visiting the same destinations, he will have different thoughts and experiences. He will make his own discoveries, and observe that which I failed to perceive."

My reply: It's a faulty assumption to just assume Azem was born in Amourot because the text doesn't explicitly say so. The vagueness of being met during travels without saying something along the lines of a "fellow Amourotian" or a "younger ancient" proves they have to be from somewhere not Amourot. How often to do you go out of town, make new friends, then just assume they will live where you do? If you meet a romantic partner on vacation isn't it silly to just assume they will live near you?

Furthermore, at this point in the narrative, there is no point in hiding the fact that the player's Azem is from Amourot. We are talking about plot points that are 2 expansions old. They are being vague because there is more to tell. The following lines about the player's Azem having their own thoughts, experiences and discoveries really lays out the road to who and what Azem are, more importantly, what was so important they didn't intervene in a civil war between their mentor and best friends.

Lastly, this isn't the first time you've attacked my posts by claiming my evidence is bad or my logic is bad. I don't know what I ever did that upset you in the first place. But dig up our old posts from a few years ago and you'll see that you've had a problem with anything I say over and over. I'm here to speculate in a speculation thread. I'd prefer a discussion without the combative tone.

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Again that doesnt say he wasnt from Amaurot its still a baseless assumption. Youre again assuming that no one but Venat has ever traveled if they were born in Amaurot. But we know that isnt true since Emet AND hythlodeaus travelled with the new Azem and was helping people. So your citation is NOT proof. Unless it says that the New Azem was born and lived outside of the city then all you have is a guess and not a fact.

Next you'll be telling me that Im best friends with the BackStreet Boys because we're from the same city (im not i have never met them and never want too)

BTW youre also forgetting that theyre keeping it vague on purpose so of course theyre not going to say fellow Amaurotine or anything like that nor would they even say younger ancient when its told from an ancients point of view.. If you read through the story again the term "ancient" isnt even used as a description of the people. So as I've stated before Azem being NOT born in Amaurot is not a fact at all it is just your assumption aka headcanon on it. He could have been born there or not but to say it is fact is false.

Also where have i been combatative im just a blunt person. I dont sugar coat anything when unless im trying not to cuss nor have i ever been combative with you iirc ive only responded to you twice. Once in my own thread and another where i said I didnt want Vaan in to be put in Ffxiv.

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Azem. Azem wasn't born in Amourot because they were discovered by Venat during her adventures outside of Amourot.

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Is delving too far into an assumption when all that was said was

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jest, surely. Yet she spoke in glowing terms of her chosen successor, a "fascinating man" she had met on her travels.

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Nothing within that said sentence from the story alludes to it being fact that our past life wasnt born in Amaurot all it states as a fact is that she MET her chosen successor while traveling and found him/her "fascinating". It doesnt tell the where the why the how or any personal information on the character at all.

Also one last thing if you think im saying its alluding to our character's past life being born in Amaurot, im not due to the fact that we have no information as to who they really were or where they were from. And its been like that since Azem was first mentioned and theyve always have shied away from giving that type of information out.

If you want to speculate they aren't from amaurot that is fine but stating it as a fact isnt

Wild speculation: since Dawntrail is supposed to be a new beginning, Solution Nine isn't going to have anything to do with the cosmic stuff from Shadowbringers / Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Again that doesnt say he wasnt from Amaurot its still a baseless assumption. Youre again assuming that no one but Venat has ever traveled if they were born in Amaurot. But we know that isnt true since Emet AND hythlodeaus travelled with the new Azem and was helping people. So your citation is NOT proof. Unless it says that the New Azem was born and lived outside of the city then all you have is a guess and not a fact.

Next you'll be telling me that Im best friends with the BackStreet Boys because we're from the same city (im not i have never met them and never want too)

BTW youre also forgetting that theyre keeping it vague on purpose so of course theyre not going to say fellow Amaurotine or anything like that nor would they even say younger ancient when its told from an ancients point of view.. If you read through the story again the term "ancient" isnt even used as a description of the people. So as I've stated before Azem being NOT born in Amaurot is not a fact at all it is just your assumption aka headcanon on it. He could have been born there or not but to say it is fact is false.

Also where have i been combatative im just a blunt person. I dont sugar coat anything when unless im trying not to cuss nor have i ever been combative with you iirc ive only responded to you twice. Once in my own thread and another where i said I didnt want Vaan in to be put in Ffxiv.



Is delving too far into an assumption when all that was said was


Nothing within that said sentence from the story alludes to it being fact that our past life wasnt born in Amaurot all it states as a fact is that she MET her chosen successor while traveling and found him/her "fascinating". It doesnt tell the where the why the how or any personal information on the character at all.

Also one last thing if you think im saying its alluding to our character's past life being born in Amaurot, im not due to the fact that we have no information as to who they really were or where they were from. And its been like that since Azem was first mentioned and theyve always have shied away from giving that type of information out.

If you want to speculate they aren't from amaurot that is fine but stating it as a fact isnt

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Again, because you've seem to have lost the general gist of the first post, it was my speculation on Solution 9 and its link to Azem--because this is a speculation thread. I never presented the information as facts, but as my theory.

You're the aggressor who wants a citation and then calls it bogus, only to finish the thought that I'm free to speculate. Which is what I did in the first place. You can't have it both ways to just one up people in a forum. You just don't have respect for others. Hope you figure it out, but this conversation is done.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Again, because you've seem to have lost the general gist of the first post, it was my speculation on Solution 9 and its link to Azem--because this is a speculation thread. I never presented the information as facts, but as my theory.

You're the aggressor who wants a citation and then calls it bogus, only to finish the thought that I'm free to speculate. Which is what I did in the first place. You can't have it both ways to just one up people in a forum. You just don't have respect for others. Hope you figure it out, but this conversation is done.

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Excuse me calling a citation For you saying that as a fact that Azem wasnt born in Amaurot isnt being combatitive. What is being combatitive is to claim that any time ive responded to you its been in a combatative/hostile manner to call you out on things. Which by a post history search under advance with your name and mine shows that a before this thread I've only responded to you twice in the 5 years you've been posting.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEz9wLOX...pg&name=medium

You your self have responded to me more times than i to you in the past.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEz_5QpX...jpg&name=large

If you want to talk about being hostile you might want to check yourself first with this slander bs you're doing kid. You dont even have the decency to even say it was your bad for that or even say that you mistook me for SOMEONE Else who has done it to you.

The sentence reads it as fact btw not as speculation. You based your whole speculation on Solution 9 on another speculation and which your then proceeded to present it as a fact. That is how the sentence "Azem wasn't born in Amourot because they were discovered by Venat during her adventures outside of Amourot." reads. Your other specualtion or even speculating it as such is fine like i have stated before but that sentence isn't even presented as speculation. You again present it as a fact with IE the sentence is a statement itself of fact also it is a Cause and and Effect sentence not of speculation.

A speculatory sentence would have been:

"To add to this we have that Venat met her successor while traveling so that too could lend credance to azem being born there instead of Amaurot" or "We know that Venat met her successor while on her travels so that could also be shown as Azem being born there." but you went with a definitive and a why.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Wild speculation: since Dawntrail is supposed to be a new beginning, Solution Nine isn't going to have anything to do with the cosmic stuff from Shadowbringers / Endwalker.

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I can only hope so. Well, sort of. I've got theories... At least no distant planet stuff, I'd hope, though.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Wild speculation: since Dawntrail is supposed to be a new beginning, Solution Nine isn't going to have anything to do with the cosmic stuff from Shadowbringers / Endwalker.

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I really hope so. I think it being a case of "this is what you can build when the area has a natural lightning aspect" would be a far more interesting case of playing within the setting than bringing in more extraterrestrial or Amaurotine aspects.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I really hope so. I think it being a case of "this is what you can build when the area has a natural lightning aspect" would be a far more interesting case of playing within the setting than bringing in more extraterrestrial or Amaurotine aspects.

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the only thing I hope is in the lightning area we don't have to dodge the strikes 200 times for an achievement... never got it in 10 don't even want to think about getting it here. lol

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Originally Posted by Rannie

the only thing I hope is in the lightning area we don't have to dodge the strikes 200 times for an achievement... never got it in 10 don't even want to think about getting it here. lol

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It was one of the few relics I actually did manage to get. Certainly more viable than playing blitzball or having to grind forever to defeat dark aeons or whatever the other things were.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It was one of the few relics I actually did manage to get. Certainly more viable than playing blitzball or having to grind forever to defeat dark aeons or whatever the other things were.

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hey congrats on that one then =) I just didn't have the patience to do it back then

Nothing really to add other than I hope it's less "OMG Aliens/Ancients" woo-woo, and more "This is what you get when you take a technological people like the Garleans and have them build a society centered on infinite Lighting/Electricity as opposed to magi-petrol"

I'd probably be fine with this being the evolution of surviving Allagans.

Dawntrail is indeed a "new beginning" and yes, Solution 9 might have nothing to do with the Ancients.

Of course, they are still continuing the story of the game, so it could be related to other shards, maybe the Allagans, maybe the Garlean Empire, etc. To me it isn't very clear what exactly they're trying to move away from other than Hydaelyn and Zodiark. Are they trying to completely move away from the Ancients? We just got a reminder of Emet-Selch's speech in 6.55, so I don't know. We also had that tease at the end of the Pandemonium raids about Ultima, which is unrelated to Hydaelyn/Zodiark, so I think it could potentially be a plot thread in the future.

Even though I would like for them to move away from this a bit, I also don't want them to just create something completely out of nowhere because, to me, it would just feel like a missed opportunity to continue a past plot point, making it feel like they're forgotten. A loose thread, if you will.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

See, the thing that bugs me is that the immense wishful reach is stifling more interesting--and perhaps more plausible--explanations. ANd yet, I might get a bit mad in expressing that, but who doesn't?

Because I actually think the more plausible idea for this one isn't Altima: It's something like Atlas from the FFXIII games.

https://i.imgur.com/d5dB0FC.jpg

Yeah, it's not quite an exact, but that sign reads to me like a tribal painting of Atlas with some perspective-distortion more than it does Altima's sigil. But I doubt we'll get to entertain that theory or anything like it very much when the alternative is 'Maybe It's Ascians Again'.

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I would have gone with the Prototype Fal'Cie Adam since it's the semi optional boss in the future tech city. Not that I would want a stuck in a time loop boss fight.

There is so much to draw and compare to things we have seen when it comes to speculating about who or what made Solution Nine. Or how it came about. You have the Machi/Levin purple, the select few hexagonal and triangular doors seen in the dungeon that's probably connected to it giving off Allag vibes. The Tron and Cyberpunk feels. Though I tend to go with Chronopolis from Chrono Cross myself. Not quite the sanitized white futuristic look as cities akin to Neo Midgard, or Arkives from Star Ocean: Til the End of Time. The crate stacks do look the same shape as crates found in Azys Lla that the Garleans use, but with purple lines on the side.

I know many are tired of Ancients stuff but it would be interesting if this was as some have said the Nineth Solution our past self tried in protecting people from the Final Days or the sundering. It could also be parts of Ancient civilization built on by those who used it as shelter. Or something made by those those who found a way to shard hop from the 2nd Calamity which would be denizens of the 12th reflection. I do ascribe to the theory that we are probably dealing with some form of Ethar/Wakanda situation as the city is too high tech to not have been hidden. With Heritage Found being the public facade.

I just hope we aren't dealing with a Midgard/ Atlas from RWBY type situation where those above the lightning and or purple dome thing are the only ones that matter vs the ones below are treated as disposable.

I feel like it may not be worthwhile to dwell too deeply on the implications of the name, given that it came from a limit break name and has the ring of "using English because it's cool" and not because it really makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Cassar

Dawntrail is indeed a "new beginning" and yes, Solution 9 might have nothing to do with the Ancients.

Of course, they are still continuing the story of the game, so it could be related to other shards, maybe the Allagans, maybe the Garlean Empire, etc. To me it isn't very clear what exactly they're trying to move away from other than Hydaelyn and Zodiark. Are they trying to completely move away from the Ancients? We just got a reminder of Emet-Selch's speech in 6.55, so I don't know. We also had that tease at the end of the Pandemonium raids about Ultima, which is unrelated to Hydaelyn/Zodiark, so I think it could potentially be a plot thread in the future.

Even though I would like for them to move away from this a bit, I also don't want them to just create something completely out of nowhere because, to me, it would just feel like a missed opportunity to continue a past plot point, making it feel like they're forgotten. A loose thread, if you will.

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"Continuing the story of the game" isn't the same as continuing the major arc it's been running on since 1.0. The only plot points derived from the Ancients not 100% concluded by the close of Endwalker is the cosmic order put in place by Hydaelyn, a couple of loose Ascian reincarnates running around, and Garlemald's political position. The first can't really be resolved, the second is implied to be a nonissue by 6.0's closing scene, and the third won't be resolved until the Reconstruction content they're obviously planning (or will be forced to implement due to player demand) is completed and the "Ilsabard Expansion" happens (because they wouldn't leave that much story potential just hanging there).

Other than the few (plausible) remaining Ascians, nothing linked to the Ancients is really left. The two Eldest Primals are dead. Zodiark's fragments on the other reflections disintegrated with his death (except the Thirteenth's, which was through a long process only possible thanks to the Void's lack of a Lifestream transfigured into Zeromus, then sealed into a Memoria crystal planted out in the First's Empty). Most (if not all) of Zodiark's servants are dead. All of Hydaelyn's servants (i.e. the Twelve) are dead. Humanity has proved it can stand on its own two feet and no longer needs the protection or guidance of "gods;" to go back to the Ancient / Ascian well would kind of be regressing on this stance and invalidate the message of Endwalker (succinctly, "forge ahead") by bringing back an element from the past whose story was for all intents and purposes concluded.

I wouldn't say the end of Pandaemonium was a tease for Ultima. She's been done and dusted since the conclusion of Return to Ivalice back in 4.5; the primary point of bringing her up in Pandaemonium was to resolve the Heart of Sabik plot point which had been dangling around since 2.0. Its JP name is actually "Black Auracite Sabik" and it was identified as auracite during the Sorrow of Werlyt questline, but people still demanded more answers and had been doing so for a decade. By including it there people would finally shut up about it - and you can tell it was kind of shoehorned in by the fact Lahabrea makes it clear in no uncertain terms Athena's methods and motivations would be no different had she never found it.

Is it possible Solution Nine will have some link to the Ancients / Ascians? Yes, but I don't want it to on account of their story arc having concluded and going back to them (or their proxies) for MSQ content would kind of defeat the purpose of having done so.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I feel like it may not be worthwhile to dwell too deeply on the implications of the name, given that it came from a limit break name and has the ring of "using English because it's cool" and not because it really makes sense.

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The only fair guess I have around the name is that, at some point, we will find one of the other eight.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Is it possible Solution Nine will have some link to the Ancients / Ascians? Yes, it is, but I don't think it's terribly likely on account of their story arc having concluded and going back to them (or their proxies) for MSQ content would kind of defeat the purpose of having done so.

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If this game has taught me nothing, it's that everything links back to Ancients/Ascians. I'll be surprised if Solution 9 isn't Ancient related.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

If this game has taught me nothing, it's that everything links back to Ancients/Ascians. I'll be surprised if Solution 9 isn't Ancient related.

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... because untangling the Ancients' very complicated legacy was the point of the myth arc stretching from 1.0 to 6.0. Endwalker was meant to conclude their story, with Dawntrail beginning a new one (or just being filler). Going back to them for major plot points would make Endwalker's conclusion pointless and defeat its thematic purpose.

I'm resigned to being stuck with Allagan tomestones of some flavor for eternity, but keeping the Ancients / Ascians or their proxies as central movers of the plot for the rest of the game's lifespan would make me check out right quick. Solution Nine's story isn't clear, but I will be extremely disappointed if the answer is "Ancients (duh!)" again.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Is it possible Solution Nine will have some link to the Ancients / Ascians? Yes, but I don't want it to on account of their story arc having concluded and going back to them (or their proxies) for MSQ content would kind of defeat the purpose of having done so.

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There already is a connection since it’s been determined very early on that Solution Nine utilizes the Ancient alphabet.

How strong of a connection that is to the Ancients remains to be seen though. It could just be a coincidence that they’re using it, or they could have uncovered it and switched to it to emulate them, or they could’ve been a surviving pocket this whole time.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

... because untangling the Ancients' very complicated legacy was the point of the myth arc stretching from 1.0 to 6.0. Endwalker was meant to conclude their story, with Dawntrail beginning a new one (or just being filler). Going back to them for major plot points would make Endwalker's conclusion pointless and defeat its thematic purpose.

I'm resigned to being stuck with Allagan tomestones of some flavor for eternity, but keeping the Ancients / Ascians or their proxies as central movers of the plot for the rest of the game's lifespan would make me check out right quick. Solution Nine's story isn't clear, but I will be extremely disappointed if the answer is "Ancients (duh!)" again.

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Considering they are still lingering on Emet-selch's 6.0 speech as the WoL's internal motivation to go, and since they are still content to bash us over the head with Hydaelyn's mantra, I would be surprised if there wasn't an Ascian connection. I think it'll take til 7.x post game to see those fade away at the earliest.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

... because untangling the Ancients' very complicated legacy was the point of the myth arc stretching from 1.0 to 6.0. Endwalker was meant to conclude their story, with Dawntrail beginning a new one (or just being filler). Going back to them for major plot points would make Endwalker's conclusion pointless and defeat its thematic purpose.

I'm resigned to being stuck with Allagan tomestones of some flavor for eternity, but keeping the Ancients / Ascians or their proxies as central movers of the plot for the rest of the game's lifespan would make me check out right quick. Solution Nine's story isn't clear, but I will be extremely disappointed if the answer is "Ancients (duh!)" again.

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Endwalker was the conclusion of the Hydaelyn/Zodiark arc. We know the purpose of our creation. We've slain our gods. Arc completed. Doesn't mean they've sworn never to bring up Ancients again, especially given they are the answer to almost every question in the game.

Why does the Source have 13 reflections?
Ancients

Who created Allagan?
Ancients

Why does the Void exist?
Ancients

Why do I have cat ears?
Ancients

What are The Twelve?
Ancients

Why does Garlemald want to conquer the world?
Ancients

Why are lalafell so short?
Ancients

Good luck moving from that to never mentioning them again.

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

it's a bit silly to assume past plot points and the known history of the world aren't going to factor in to anything at all ever again.

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Sure, but at the same time it's reasonable to hope that we're not going to cycle back to the same few sources every time the plot needs something mysterious.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Is it possible Solution Nine will have some link to the Ancients / Ascians? Yes, but I don't want it to on account of their story arc having concluded and going back to them (or their proxies) for MSQ content would kind of defeat the purpose of having done so.

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We still have not been informed on what Azem was doing during the Final Days other than he/she opposed BOTH Zodiark and Hydaelyn summoning. Solution 9 could be Azem's solution to save a group of Ancients from the sundering and allow the Ancients civilization to survive unsundered while not associated with the Ascians.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

We still have not been informed on what Azem was doing during the Final Days other than he/she opposed BOTH Zodiark and Hydaelyn summoning. Solution 9 could be Azem's solution to save a group of Ancients from the sundering and allow the Ancients civilization to survive unsundered while not associated with the Ascians.

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That's my theory. They took themselves out of space/time, surviving in virtual reality or something until the coast was clear.

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

I just personally think it's setting yourself up for disappointment. Expecting FFXIV to give up Allag and Ascians is like expecting Warcraft to give up Titans and the Burning Legion and Old Gods.

But people have a right to hope for what they want.

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Well, I think the people setting themselves up for disappointment are the ones who insist the city must be the work of surviving Ancients who found a way to escape from the shard that fell to the Calamity of Lightning, or whatever the most far-flung theories currently are. Mundanity is possible.

I don't trust any trailer significance implications since they hyped up "Master Matoya" in the Shadowbringers trailer.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Well, I think the people setting themselves up for disappointment are the ones who insist the city must be the work of surviving Ancients who found a way to escape from the shard that fell to the Calamity of Lightning, or whatever the most far-flung theories currently are. Mundanity is possible.

I don't trust any trailer significance implications since they hyped up "Master Matoya" in the Shadowbringers trailer.

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I don't think those people will be disappointed if it's something else. They are just used to it being Ancients, the text being used is Ancients, so they assume it's Ancients. I don't think managing to surprise people with something beside the default answer for every mystery in the game will upset them. I may end up eating my words and people rage over whatever Solution 9 is, myself included, but that'll be six months from now and I'm banking on no one remembering this conversation by then.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

I don't think those people will be disappointed if it's something else. They are just used to it being Ancients, the text being used is Ancients, so they assume it's Ancients. I don't think managing to surprise people with something beside the default answer for every mystery in the game will upset them. I may end up eating my words and people rage over whatever Solution 9 is, myself included, but that'll be six months from now and I'm banking on no one remembering this conversation by then.

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Oh people will definitely be upset and I think you'll be surprised by how many will remember these conversations. Just look at the whole I thought the Scions were disbanding and we'd never see any of them again crowd. Or those who still thought Island Sanctuary was going to give them a free house and that it would be closer to Animal Crossing. Despite the devs repeatedly telling us it wouldn't and to lower our expectations.

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

I'd argue that everything but mundanity is possible. Regardless of whether it's Ancients or lightning shard folk or just some Turali people who built a crazy cyberpunk city. It's not mundane by any stretch of the imagination.

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There are degrees of mundanity. "Built by people in this world utilising an unusual natural resource" is more mundane than "spacetime manipulation".

You can eventually link everything back to Amaurot by virtue of it being a world government over 12000 years ago, but not everything has to be a direct consequence of it.

I think one of the weaknesses of the writing around the Garlemald and Allag storylines was the revelation that they were both directly micromanaged by the Ascians. They're just subsidiaries. Why would you waste your time with them when you've already taken out their overlord?

That doesn't necessarily need to be the case going forward. For example, it's theoretically possible that the rise and fall of the Ronkan empire was directly manipulated by the Ascians. But they have much more potential if they were just out doing their own thing, because you can actually build them into a unique lore entity. Tural has much the same potential. You need to build in parallel rather than in series. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of serial puppetmasters all tied back to a villain whom we wiped the floor with ages ago in 5.0.

You can also detach technology from factions. Ceruleum is more interesting if it is merely a basis for technological progress rather than "the thing that makes the evil faction tick". And this feels like an apparent plot point that is going to happen in Dawntrail, there are people who are not the old evil empire faction trying to do stuff with that.
Same applies to all the other form of technology seen here and there in the game's setting. If you wanna get really abstract and reductionist, everything just boils down to aether anyway. Everything ends up being just "a way to burn aether to boil water."

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Oh people will definitely be upset and I think you'll be surprised by how many will remember these conversations. Just look at the whole I thought the Scions were disbanding and we'd never see any of them again crowd. Or those who still thought Island Sanctuary was going to give them a free house and that it would be closer to Animal Crossing. Despite the devs repeatedly telling us it wouldn't and to lower our expectations.

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More pointedly a significant number of people were utterly convinced Shadowbringers was going to reveal Hydaelyn to be evil, and have the PC switch sides in the cosmic conflict to become Zodiark's champion instead (if not necessarily join the Ascians)... all because the Crystal Exarch (G'raha) said we'd "become the Warrior of Darkness" in the teaser trailer. Needless to say, none of those things happened and the people who wanted them to were disappointed (though not with Shadowbringers as a whole; and they are some of Endwalker's most vocal critics, but I digress).

Without context an educated guess is next to impossible to make. Personally, I will be very disappointed if it winds up being more Ancient / Ascian crap on account of Endwalker concluding their story and continuing to bring them (or their proxies the Allagans and Garleans) into the forefront would defeat the purpose of having done so.

Just my two cents.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

More pointedly a significant number of people were utterly convinced Shadowbringers was going to reveal Hydaelyn to be evil, and have the PC switch sides in the cosmic conflict to become Zodiark's champion instead (if not necessarily join the Ascians)... all because the Crystal Exarch (G'raha) said we'd "become the Warrior of Darkness" in the teaser trailer. Needless to say, none of those things happened and the people who wanted them to were disappointed (though not with Shadowbringers as a whole; and they are some of Endwalker's most vocal critics, but I digress).

Without context an educated guess is next to impossible to make. Personally, I will be very disappointed if it winds up being more Ancient / Ascian crap on account of Endwalker concluding their story and continuing to bring them (or their proxies the Allagans and Garleans) into the forefront would defeat the purpose of having done so.

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To be fair, I do recall, in the fanfests leading up to Shadowbringers, there were some lines spoken giving vague implications that we might become some sort of dubious person (though I couldn't actually manage to find any video footage of the ShB keynotes, as those were paid events, so I don't have exact quotes). And the bit at the end of the 4.5 patch trailer also offering some cryptic symbolism that, even if we did get context for afterwards, was still cryptic on purpose. The point is, the devs know what they're doing when they do this. Yoshida says vague, out-of-context things, and then encourages people to ponder, on purpose, and the CG trailers always do the same. Honestly, I really wish they would stop trying to lead people on this way, but I guess it's just what he does.

We're always going to get context later, so I guess ultimately it doesn't matter. I do agree though, I really hope this isn't just yet more pre-sundering Ancient stuff, or even Allagan stuff. I'm making the personal assumption that it isn't Allagan, due to it simply not looking typical Allagan. I know people are bringing up the alphabet topic, and since I don't really follow, can somebody kindly point me to citation where I can read up on that, please?