endwalker was an unacceptable unfished product

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Snip

---

It amazes me the FFXIV has got to be one of the only MMOs, maybe even games in general, that has these excuses get brought up all the time. Yes people retire, people quit, people get moved to different projects, but thats not something new for any game studio or development team. Yet it is brought up to deflect as to why the team is still so small, why content is fewer and further between. The team working on FFXIV should not be working on anything else, especially the producer/director.

What excuses have we seen recently?
"Well they are also working on FFXVI."
"Well they have a graphical update they've been working on"
I wonder what will be next.

I wouldnt call it unfinished. More so like, they faltered a lot in its content and gotten complacent in itself.

They did what they set out to do but the truth is that as an MMO game their efforts and end product just wasnt enough for people. Its as simple as that my guy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KenZentra

It amazes me the FFXIV has got to be one of the only MMOs, maybe even games in general, that has these excuses get brought up all the time. Yes people retire, people quit, people get moved to different projects, but thats not something new for any game studio or development team. Yet it is brought up to deflect as to why the team is still so small, why content is fewer and further between. The team working on FFXIV should not be working on anything else, especially the producer/director.

What excuses have we seen recently?
"Well they are also working on FFXVI."
"Well they have a graphical update they've been working on"
I wonder what will be next.

---

When I play WoW, the amount of people I meet who say "Yeah, I've been playing this game for 18 years" is WILD to me. That game feels like it has a really good mix of both new and veteran players. (The only downside is that a lot of the playerbase has forgotten what it's like to be new in that game lol)

Contrast that with FFXIV, where I frequently find myself remarking to my friends about just how rare it feels to meet people who have been playing FFXIV for a long time. This game has one of the worst revolving doors I've ever seen. It's ironic how much FFXIV players tend to complain about other players 'band-wagoning' onto other games like BG3 or Dragonflight, when FFXIV is a super bandwagony game that's rapidly running out of momentum.

Veteran players are vastly overrepresented on these forums. In-game, most of the population are shadowbabies who are rapidly approaching their own burnout point, and it'll be interesting to see where the population goes in DT now that the game has "reached" most of its potential audience. I don't really have faith that the Xbox client is going to bring a massive influx of players, because xbox monoplayers are a relatively small crowd to begin with, and the amount of them interested in MMORPGs is even smaller.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I miss Titan Men. At least he had more than one note.

---

i hope the irony isnt lost on you that despite saying others are posting the same thing over and over you continue to make the same replies over and over

shadowbringer is a lott better the endwalker

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Well they have to start somewhere. Everyone says "hire more developers", but this is why I have to mention that they need training and to gain experience so it's not as simple as just hiring more. Yoshi-P gave them a chance at a main story and some main content.

---

Which would be less of a problem if they had have actually acted over 4 years ago when people started seeing that a problem was forming with a development team that hadn't kept pace with how rapidly the game was scaling up at the time:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ealer-designer.

It would be fair to level a similar accusation at the Battle content design team after Sudo left as well.

As far as job design goes though, my suspicion is that burnout and creative bankruptcy are key issues here. The team hasn't changed much at all since ARR, meanwhile both the players expectations and demands of the game have only ever gone up through it's sheer size and breadth of content now.

The credits do not lie.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

i hope the irony isnt lost on you that despite saying others are posting the same thing over and over you continue to make the same replies over and over

---

Why bother coming up with new replies to the same things over and over?

you can never satisfy the expectations and demands of gamers. they will always chew everything up and spit it out and demand more!

Title says something about being unfinished, but I find no connection to the claim in the context.( unless “unfished” is actually a word and I misunderstood the title)

It’s more like you’re unhappy with the design choices they made in EW.

The way they revamped SMN perfectly captures how Endwalker feels in microcosm.
Something new was tried by revamping SMN. On the surface, in the initial livestreams, it looked good. It generated a lot of hype. And for a lot of people, it was good enough. It was certainly popular! Most played caster for a while, might still be. But when discerning players peeled back the layers, they found there wasn't much to keep them going back to it. So there's a segment of people who hope to god that things change in dawntrail, but there are also a lot of people who enjoy it as it is and think it's fine to have a caster with 2 actual casts who moves around like a rangedphys and has like 10 buttons that stay the same for 40 levels. They're fine with this because they don't play SMN extensively; they just play it once a month and so the formula doesn't feel bad for them. When SMN mains air their grievances with how shallow their favorite job has become, it's these people who tell those old SMN mains to just play a different job.

Same with DT. It was very popular! Won some awards. Got good scores from review writers. And to be sure, we got a whole lot of new stuff and they tried some bold things. We saw an end to the 10 year story. We got our own private island. We got revamped 4man content in the form of variant/criterion. But most of it was pretty shallow or lacked any incentive to go and do it more than once (if that). For some people, one-and-done content is perfectly fine and they feel great about spending 15 a month on a few hours of content once every 4 months, but for the people who aren't fine with that, they're submitting feedback and hoping to god that things change in dawntrail.

In that vein, I wouldn't say EW feels unfinished. I'd say it feels rushed and very shallow. There are some people who will deny this forever, but I really think pulling staff members to work on XVI had an impact on EW's post-game content. For example, recently Yoshi admitted that CBU3 had some "young guys" (I take it to mean they were new/relatively inexperienced) designing the Myths of the Realm alliance raid, and ... well, it shows! I mean, some of the setpieces/aesthetics are great, but mechanically it feels like it was made by someone who didn't have a decade of encounter-design experience backing them up. In the past, alliance raids were a cool way to explore new/grand concepts in a silly environment where the stakes were fairly low. We sort of saw them pushing the envelope in Aglaia, where you fight on a giant hand and there are mechanics utilizing that setpiece to fun effect, but we quickly went back to the big-square-arena setup with mechanics that felt like dumbed down normal raid mechs. Where's the person who designed TG Cid? Or the person who designed Diabolos Hollow? Or the person who designed that second fight in Rabanastre that still holds up and sometimes turns people into paste? Why weren't these people supervising the "young guys" as they designed myths of the realm? Were those people pulled to help with XVI? Or maybe they don't work with CBU3 anymore? It's a mystery. But it's just one area where the rushed/superficial element immediately comes to mind. It looks great on the surface, but after you do it once, it's not something you're itching to go back and do. It's the same with most jobs. What'd they do for dawntrail? In the best case scenario, your job got a couple of new skills that you hit every 2 minutes, and maybe a new trait. In the worst case, your job was totally revamped and no longer resembles the thing you once enjoyed. Either way, everyone falls into the shallow 2 minute meta and feels like an iteration of some other job in the same role. The devs said this was done because of feedback and to make the game easier for them to balance, but it created something that's boring as hell after you figure it out because it's so shallow. Everyone just does their own thing until the 2 minute egg timer buzzes; then you press a buff and use all your stored up resources during that time period. Every class wants to be able to do this to play optimally, and it's boring. It's repetitive. It's superficial. And it feels like they did it without thinking about how boring and superficial it would be. For people who don't play this game often, none of this matters much; but for people who really really enjoy playing this game and want things to do and reasons to do it and jobs that feel fun to play over and over, EW was kind of awful.

I'm tired of writing. Basically EW is just new-SMN. It's "good enough" for most people so we'll probably see more of it in the future, but for people who want to enjoy it extensively it's boring and shallow and it hints that the people on staff were either phoning it in, were splitting their attention, or were all hella new and lacking guidance from people who had decades of experience to draw upon. If anyone actually reads this who can affect change, here's a cool concept taken from another mmo: if your jobs are fundamentally enjoyable, your content can actually get away with being boring. But you can't have boring jobs AND boring content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Why bother coming up with new replies to the same things over and over?

---

Why bump it at all then? To be heard? Mocked? Well that much was at least accomplished

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avoidy

Basically EW is just new-SMN. It's "good enough" for most people so we'll probably see more of it in the future, but for people who want to enjoy it extensively it's boring and shallow and it hints that the people on staff were either phoning it in, were splitting their attention, or were all hella new and lacking guidance from people who had decades of experience to draw upon. If anyone actually reads this who can affect change, here's a cool concept taken from another mmo: if your jobs are fundamentally enjoyable, your content can actually get away with being boring. But you can't have boring jobs AND boring content.

---

Excellent breakdown avoidy. The vultures will no doubt come for this post and rip it to shreds but I think ppl like you need to be more represented

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Excellent breakdown avoidy. The vultures will no doubt come for this post and rip it to shreds but I think ppl like you need to be more represented

---

Reasonable people will likely criticize the comment you quoted, mainly because it's worthy of criticism. Comments like "but for people who want to enjoy it extensively it's boring and shallow" are just egocentric and condescending. It's claiming that "if you don't like what I like, it's because you're lesser." And that leads nowhere useful. Guess what - I'm enjoying EW "extensively" and find it very fun and engaging. Oops?

Same with "But you can't have boring jobs AND boring content." Who says EW has either of those, let alone both? What we have are personal opinions trying to masquerade as if they're facts. Again, I myself find both the jobs and the content fun. That's my opinion. If someone wants an actual productive discussion, they need to acknowledge their opinions are solely that, and not act as if they somehow determine objective reality or inherently debase anyone who has a different opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Striker44

Reasonable people will likely criticize the comment you quoted, mainly because it's worthy of criticism. Comments like "but for people who want to enjoy it extensively it's boring and shallow" are just egocentric and condescending. It's claiming that "if you don't like what I like, it's because you're lesser." And that leads nowhere useful. Guess what - I'm enjoying EW "extensively" and find it very fun and engaging. Oops?

Same with "But you can't have boring jobs AND boring content." Who says EW has either of those, let alone both? What we have are personal opinions trying to masquerade as if they're facts. Again, I myself find both the jobs and the content fun. That's my opinion. If someone wants an actual productive discussion, they need to acknowledge their opinions are solely that, and not act as if they somehow determine objective reality or inherently debase anyone who has a different opinion.

---

Funny enough I enjoy New Summoner but want it to expanded upon. But according to Sindriisgaming, Id be considered a shill and a vulture because apparently its either my way or the highway with these people. Theres never an in between.

Sounds like you have more than enough reason to simply go play something else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Funny enough I enjoy New Summoner but want it to expanded upon. But according to Sindriisgaming, Id be considered a shill and a vulture because apparently its either my way or the highway with these people. Theres never an in between.

---

I too enjoy the changes to Summoner.

As for the word "shill", I found the following usage in the Urban Dictionary hilarious: "A word used by conspiracy theorists when they are losing an argument. The word originally referred to an accomplice of a travelling salesman selling quack remedies or similar items of dubious value. The conspiracy theorist calls their opponent a "shill" in an attempt to discredit them by implying that they are paid agents working for the government, the Bilderbergers, reptilian overlords, the Rotshschilds etc, because of course only such people could possibly disagree with them." [source: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shill]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPZ2

I too enjoy the changes to Summoner.

As for the word "shill", I found the following usage in the Urban Dictionary hilarious: "A word used by conspiracy theorists when they are losing an argument. The word originally referred to an accomplice of a travelling salesman selling quack remedies or similar items of dubious value. The conspiracy theorist calls their opponent a "shill" in an attempt to discredit them by implying that they are paid agents working for the government, the Bilderbergers, reptilian overlords, the Rotshschilds etc, because of course only such people could possibly disagree with them." [source: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shill]

---

Dang you really had to go far down to cherry pick that definition didn't you?

First description:

"A person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums with the pretense of sincerity, when in fact he is being paid for his services."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Funny enough I enjoy New Summoner but want it to expanded upon. But according to Sindriisgaming, Id be considered a shill and a vulture because apparently its either my way or the highway with these people. Theres never an in between.

---

You've misunderstood. Firstly I've never called anybody a shrill and if you enjoy summoner then congrats. I don't mind it but it needs more meat to the bone. As for the vulture statement. I was referring to how people ridicule opinions and rip into them without actually listing to anything they say. If you still think the shoe fits then that's on u. Also. If you plan to refer to me, Sugar will do since that's my ign and I have no ability to change my main one here

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by armandojc3

Sounds like you have more than enough reason to simply go play something else.

---

I've actually departed 14 now till January. The presence if me you see here is simply what remains of my sub. I will not likley return now till dawntrail. And as much as others may downplay that.its up to 9 months of no money from me for them. Most of my friends and fc have unsubbed too. We're enjoying other games now until 14 becomes interesting. If that means we return when dt finishes then so be it. Either the devs will keep producing an hour a month of content or they'll give ppl a reason to stay subbed besides "I like rp"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

I've actually departed 14 now till January. The presence if me you see here is simply what remains of my sub. I will not likley return now till dawntrail. And as much as others may downplay that.its up to 9 months of no money from me for them. Most of my friends and fc have unsubbed too. We're enjoying other games now until 14 becomes interesting. If that means we return when dt finishes then so be it. Either the devs will keep producing an hour a month of content or they'll give ppl a reason to stay subbed besides "I like rp"

---

I have multiple accounts, I already paid for your 9 months leave like 30 times by now.

It's my pleasure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

Dang you really had to go far down to cherry pick that definition didn't you?

First description:

"A person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums with the pretense of sincerity, when in fact he is being paid for his services."

---

So who here is getting paid for what they post?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

now please understand, you may not share these sentiments, but they are mine and so valid. they are here to help the game thrive again. not bash it. if you cant understand that this thread may not be for you

its now been exactly 2 years since the (delayed) release of endwalker.
the exasion price was 49.99GBP ( you can translate that in your own currency) and the monthly sub is 7.99. x24 = 191+50 meaning in total weve paid 240 to experience endwalker.

i want to talk, now that the expansion (thankfully) is almost over a

starting with msq - ok look. some wont agree with me here. but i loved 6.0. i really did. but post 6.0 i absolutley hate it. i had been desperate to go to the void since 2.0 alliance raid and the completly ruined it for me. the best character ZERO was absolutley ruined and betrayed at the end by changing her from a rpr to a pld, and her darkness to light. it felt like "build a WOL" not.. accept people for who they are. i absolutley hate the ending golbez got and the four fiends were lierally just wondow shopping from ff4.. even the themes were 1/1. so, honestly.. the post msq. was aweful. not only is it a decline from 6.0 but even arr could be more compelling than this... it felt like it was trying to ride of the writing of other expansions because i had nothing original.

Moving onto the Dungeons. id argue theyre the worst of every expansion; heres why. are they cinematic. yes. pretty. yes. but thats where it ends. you remember shb bosses could literally wipe you if you didnt pay attention.. all the gear in the newer dungeons was all reskinned. the dungeons for 6.1 quest and onward are lets be real BGM to raid to.

The trails. RUBICANTE EX - enough said. only 2 good trails came out of this tier. Barbarriccia EX and Hydaelyn ex, with golbez a close 3rd.

Savages - p3s and p4s are horrible. the glam was nice, unique and worth going for.

P5-8 yea.. ngl this was a failure of a tier. 8 was the only good thing and 8 was hell.

p9-12 okay. look. i hate this tier even more.. i despise it. the gear is ugly. the weapons suck and the bosses are frutstating... 11 was the only good fight

relics - what relics. i guess we got criterion... yey? no. its a repeatable mess that doesnt offer anything unique. the rewards require weeks of savage clears to actually obtain

JOb design - okay this started in shb but i wont act like endwalker didnt make things 100% x worse..the 2 minute meta which i dont hate it. understand why it exists. its created a job rigidity that makes the game feels like a giant dance rehersal...

Community - ugh this is where i feel less and less welcome on this game. its gotten so bad and so toxic.. PF/DF/PVP/Novice/ultimate all seam to have gotten way more toxic than ever before.. i blame this on people leaving out of boredum..

Cash shop - can i bring this up.. it got really bad in Endwalker.. in the last 2 years.. the exploitation and ignorance to players needs. and rediculous charges of items

Island Sanctuary - im bound by character climit. but this content failed. completly.

so overall. compared to shb.. this expansion is honstly just unifhsed.. we really deserved better. there are some things i have liked to expand on but there is a character limit here

---

It is, so what? It's a cookie-cutter game. Don't expect a lot from it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

"A person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums with the pretense of sincerity, when in fact he is being paid for his services."

---

Yup. And you had to ignore what I've highlighted in boldface in order to make the word somehow "fit" posters on the forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KenZentra

people quit, people get moved to different projects, but thats not something new for any game studio or development team. Yet it is brought up to deflect as to why the team is still so small

---

The credits don't agree with the assessment that the team is small.

Quote:

---

why content is fewer and further between.

---

There have been games with less content with further between. I remember reading players complaining about that for SWTOR. My understanding is that Blizzard had to buy an entire game studio because of a similar problem - the time it takes to recruit and train people faster than they leave or retire. People who live in the vicinity of their workplace, which this studio did, by sheer chance.

Quote:

---

The team working on FFXIV should not be working on anything else

---

They aren't because when they left for FF16 they became the FF16 team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avoidy

Something new was tried by revamping SMN. On the surface, in the initial livestreams, it looked good. It generated a lot of hype. And for a lot of people, it was good enough.

---

It is for me too.

Quote:

---

For some people, one-and-done content is perfectly fine and they feel great about spending 15 a month on a few hours of content once every 4 months

---

It's just how people play games now. I remember always looking at my Steam list and seeing everyone play the newest game, or the game that just released DLC, for a few days and then moving onto the next game. SE is just designing content around how people play games.

Quote:

---

but for the people who aren't fine with that, they're submitting feedback and hoping to god that things change in dawntrail.

---

Most likely the issue here is that they are a relative minority. I think it is still a huge amount of players but relatively speaking, the casual audience that would just login for the DLC and then leave after a few days is massive. I don't think they completely ignore people that want content to last longer. They make raid content that takes many players weeks or months to progress through and add rewards such as mounts and glamour for spending an extended period of time.

Quote:

---

I really think pulling staff members to work on XVI had an impact on EW's post-game content.

---

This is just flat out untrue because XVI was in development since 2015. That means that staff have been "pulled away" since Heavensward. There was plenty of indication the game was planned for release much earlier in EW but got delayed due to covid, so most of the work was probably already done by EW release. They have only admitted so far that Soken, Koji and 1 English localization person worked on both and obviously Yoshi-P oversees the spreadsheets and resource allocation and logistics for it because he oversees that for the whole of CBU3, but he wasn't the director who oversaw the creative process.

Quote:

---

mechanically it feels like it was made by someone who didn't have a decade of encounter-design experience backing them up

---

The mechanics were actually really good, what was different was they were more telegraphed than normal. If you got the same mechanics, but didn't have the indicators, they would probably wipe alliances a lot. They wouldn't have them in Heavensward. To this day, Weeping City is not very intuitive and people die to lots of random things because of a lack of indicators, such as avoiding the death area and then later standing in it, or virtually all of Ozma's mechanics that involve just knowing what the different animations mean. Now imagine that they got those fights and telegraphed them as well as they do Oschon's bow. You can get that on the first try because of how extremely well-telegraphed it is. This has been a design they have applied retroactively to older MSQ dungeons as well, to make mechanics intuitive aka obvious on the first playthrough.

They actually ask people to design a dungeon boss fight as part of the job application that has the same difficulty as a modern dungeon. So when hiring new people they were obviously satisfied with their design ability.

Quote:

---

Why weren't these people supervising the "young guys" as they designed myths of the realm? Were those people pulled to help with XVI? Or maybe they don't work with CBU3 anymore?

---

I think it is just a decision from the top to telegraph them better or make them less punishing. I think that if Yoshi-P said "make them brutally difficult" they could just as easily make them like DRS or an ultimate alliance raid.

Quote:

---

It looks great on the surface, but after you do it once, it's not something you're itching to go back and do.

---

I think the Byregot and Nald'thal fights was were great conceptually as well, it is just them not withstanding current gear. I looked forward to doing Aglaia week after week, personally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I have multiple accounts, I already paid for your 9 months leave like 30 times by now.

It's my pleasure.

---

Cool! Now go do that for all 90 members of my fc who quit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Cool! Now go do that for all 90 members of my fc who quit

---

Sure buddy lmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Cool! Now go do that for all 90 members of my fc who quit

---

As opposed to the 324 members of your fc who have not quit at this point in time?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The credits don't agree with the assessment that the team is small.

---

Are you sure about that though? Have you compared FFXIV's credits to some other big league MMOs?

Spoiler, I already did. Years ago. It's not good reading and it's certainly not gotten any better in recent years.

TLDR FFXIV's core creative team (The job design, raid design etc) is tiny even when compared to far less successful and enduring MMOs.

FFXIV has 4 job designers credited currently as of Endwalker, it's stayed at this mark since ARR with 1 member getting replaced and Kei Sato getting promoted to a director position in that time frame.

WoW released back in 2004 with 6 class designers and it's important to note that many of the quest writers also had quite significant input in class design matters (See J Kaplan as an example of this).

Even Wildstar had a broader team with 6 core class combat designers along with an additional 4 PvP systems designers.

Ok cool, I'd like to think that FFXIV's job design team woes are well understood by now, but what about the rest of the team? Content designers and quest writers?

FFXIV has 26 quest writers, 13 battle content designers and 8 non battle content designers for a total of 47 content designers

Blade & Soul lumped their content designers into 1 single group, which has 46 staff named with their 2016 release....

Now BnS is hardly a small fry, but it's also not even remotely close to being of the same kind of scale and scope as FFXIV either nor was it ever likely to be quite as big given how saturated it's market was at the time. Do you think NCSoft over invested in BnS? Or are SE underinvesting in FFXIV?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

the time it takes to recruit and train people faster than they leave or retire.

---

Again, I was pointing this out as an old hand of the industry literally over 4 and a half years ago at this point. The signs were clearly visible from the outside looking in so it absolutely would have been a known thing internally, yet nothing was being done about it and as such, here we are listening to you say 'it takes time' when action really needed to have been taken years ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They have only admitted so far that Soken, Koji and 1 English localization person worked on both and obviously Yoshi-P oversees the spreadsheets and resource allocation and logistics for it because he oversees that for the whole of CBU3, but he wasn't the director who oversaw the creative process.

---

You do realise that a bunch of team leads from XIV were working on XVI as well right?

From FFXIV:
Lead quest designer: https://www.mobygames.com/person/196...shiaki-suzuki/
Lead game designer: https://www.mobygames.com/person/278...utoshi-gondai/
Lead game designer: https://www.mobygames.com/person/108...ichi-murasawa/
Art team lead: https://www.mobygames.com/person/34376/shinya-ichida/
Art team lead: https://www.mobygames.com/person/384846/yusuke-mogi/
Lead character concept artist: https://www.mobygames.com/person/384846/yusuke-mogi/
UI art lead: https://www.mobygames.com/person/247127/yoichi-seki/
Lead engineer: https://www.mobygames.com/person/265...suru-kawahara/
Lead engineer: https://www.mobygames.com/person/279000/keisuke-tanaka/
Client systems engineering supervisor: https://www.mobygames.com/person/89869/mamoru-oyamada/
Project manager: https://www.mobygames.com/person/933560/kei-iwamiya/
Project manager: https://www.mobygames.com/person/805298/yuko-mizoguchi/

And that's just a selection of creative and systems leads. I've not touched the rank and file.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I think the Byregot and Nald'thal fights was were great conceptually as well, it is just them not withstanding current gear. I looked forward to doing Aglaia week after week, personally.

---

I appreciate that it's subjective and all, but as someone who endured Everquest's original Ragefire camp twice, Aglaia had me alt F4ing in boredom and frustration as a healer, the later fights were passable but Byregot was unforgivable trash. I imagine it could look cool to a spectator who had no idea what was actually happening and the floor gimmick was neat but man, don't make me tap the damage taken sign. It made Stone Sky Sea look exciting and by comparison, even Alte Roite was a decent boss because at least it did something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebazy

WoW released back in 2004 with 6 class designers

---

I remember someone who worked on WoW saying that 1 person designed lots of the classes. I don't remember in what timeframe that was for because I don't play that game but it does seem that, in general, a single designer can handle lots of classes.

Quote:

---

Again, I was pointing this out as an old hand of the industry literally over 4 and a half years ago at this point.

---

I appreciate you taking the time to explain your position because most people who say this just throw it out in a sentence as if it's not well thought out and without any evidence.

Quote:

---

The signs were clearly visible from the outside looking in so it absolutely would have been a known thing internally, yet nothing was being done about it and as such, here we are listening to you say 'it takes time' when action really needed to have been taken years ago.

---

Well what I meant was they may have been recruiting back then (especially as many of their jobs always seem open any year that I've looked and they have, for years even advertised some of them in live letters), so if their team is still small despite that then maybe they don't manage to recruit them or they lose more than they recruit to other game projects, retirement or quitting.

As you pointed out, they have 47 content designers, if we are being less generic, maybe they are recruiting a lot for certain areas (like content) but not for other areas (like job design). However, that brings us back to the WoW class argument, where you've said lots of people worked on them but I saw something different in a video I watched some time ago.

I think that part of the problem is they are recruiting in Japan when if they opened development teams from their regional offices they could be working with people outside of Japan as well. There are countless developers that would want to work for them but aren't about to move to another country.

Quote:

---

You do realise that a bunch of team leads from XIV were working on XVI as well right?

---

I didn't, particularly, because I have completely gone off what Yoshi-P has said, which is repeated denials that this is the case and that they are separate teams and that it hasn't impacted FFXIV. I'd like to trust the person in charge of the entire unit to know better than anyone after all. From there, I have gone off any exceptions I've come across such as Soken and Koji as well as the Localization lead mentioning that one of their team members got snatched away to FF16.

I checked them out and most of them just say "Special Thanks" for FF16, while a few say "Supervisor" which sounds less time-consuming than actually being the lead. It makes sense for them to just check on or give advice to the team sitting right next to them.

One of them says they were a lead for FF14 on Heavensward but then became a supervisor on FF14 thereafter, and were a lead on FF16, so they were probably one of the ones that moved from FF14 to FF16 in Heavensward.

Quote:

---

I appreciate that it's subjective and all, but as someone who endured Everquest's original Ragefire camp twice, Aglaia had me alt F4ing in boredom and frustration as a healer, the later fights were passable but Byregot was unforgivable trash. I imagine it could look cool to a spectator who had no idea what was actually happening and the floor gimmick was neat but man, don't make me tap the damage taken sign. It made Stone Sky Sea look exciting and by comparison, even Alte Roite was a decent boss because at least it did something.

---

Maybe the problem here isn't Aglaia, but healer design and how most content in the game, in general, does not challenge healers much.