DT Relic Proposal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

(Background: I started when post-ShB was current.)

I think what I like about relic "grinds" is the variety of content that I'm required to do, so long as there's an option that I don't mind terribly.

I've found a certain sort of amusement in:

• The ARR and HW relics, where more than a few steps were clearly designed to funnel people into certain content, presumably to keep queues populated and all that.
• The ShB relics, because Lost Actions are fun to play around with.

I dislike, for "practical reasons":

• How Delubrum Reginae isn't in Duty Finder, because I don't want to run PotD for Timeworn Artifacts. :p

I dislike, for lack of variety:

• How Endwalker is only "turn in 1500 uncapped tomestones."
• How Eureka seems to be only "grind FATEs with people." (I've only completed the first two zones, though, so maybe there's something more, later?)

---

You get lost actions in the latter 2 zones, and I've heard Baldesion Arsenal is super fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrWho2010

You've just quadrupled the amount of work the weapon designers need to do then.

---

So the people who are paid to work, have work to do?

You don't say!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Musashidon

i mean that is the best of both worlds sure people will go the tomes route but that's the point people who say they want a grind can do it and those who just want the weapon can too.

even if most people default to tomes everyone is happy. well except the group that wants everyone to do the grind.

---

I mean, fair. I was letting my own thoughts get in the way there. But overall I just think it is a discussion with plenty of room to talk, if folks stop planting their feet the whole time...but, eh.

I am working on an arr relic right now. I just finished my 9 books. I will continue in to finish this, But l think this made me really appreciate ew's relic weapon. I just had to skip cutscene to unlock it, Then do the content l like for tomestone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

[...]How Eureka seems to be only "grind FATEs with people." (I've only completed the first two zones, though, so maybe there's something more, later?)

---

If you're solely looking at the relic grind itself, then yes. Eureka does lack variety. It's either you do as the game says, or you get nothing. Almost no variety outside prepping, spawning NMs, and claiming the rewards. One could argue on first 3 zones have trader that allows you to trade for Pazuzu/Louhi/Penny items but that too boils down to "more prepping spawning and claiming NMs". Just withheld. You do get to play with Logos Actions (Eureka's equivalent of BSF's Lost Actions with couple of differences) beyond Pyros. There will be specific ways to acquire these resources as well. But you technically don't need those to claim your glowy relics saves Physeos stage, which offers absolutely no visual differences. They're just to make you stronger & is a fairly good investment to work on in case one would like to spend more time in Eureka for whatever reason. The BSF equivalent of these would be the Ray of Valor/Fortitude/Succors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

This just proves exactly what I'm saying though....
I came in to talk about what I liked about the Endwalker relics and how they can be improved, but there seems to be no option for discussion. People like yourself are disingenuously claiming that you have had content "stolen" from you or that anyone who disagres with you is "lazy" and "wants a handout".
There is no discussion to be had when one side comes in bad faith and tries to constantly and disingenuously paint the other side like that. There is no compromise with it or discussion, So I suppose we can let this go back to what the last 5 threads about relics have been, people who miss the ARR books whining about how it "means nothing" now that everyone can get a relic, they all agree with each other, echo chamber ensues, and then they are surprised when other people don't share their same opinion.

---

You started the whole discussion in bad faith. Literally go back to page 1:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Yeah it's pretty nice this time around for not forcing you to do either extremely tedious content (ARR/HW) or do Exploratory Zones you don't want to be in (SB/SHB).
I've posted about it on here before but having it earned through the grinding you're already doing in other content is great and freeing, I don't feel like I'm shoehorned into content I don't want to be in. I can go grind whatever content I want and still make progress without having some arbitrary "do 100 fates" or "clear each normal raid series 60 times" kind of tasks that just drag things out for no reason. And I don't have to deal with zones like Bozja and Eureka that die out very quickly.

It's feels good honestly given how bad a lot of relics were in the past.

---

Most of this is purely your opinion, with a bit of misinformation sprinkled in. For instance, Bozja didn't actually require you to work on the relic purely in Bozja. The ShB relics offered an alternative(s) for each step, and there's only one step where the alternative is really unreasonable.

But then we look at the rest of your post. You don't like fates, you don't like normal raids, you don't like grinding in general. You want to compromise? Maybe try being open minded yourself first. Your comments essentially suggest that no matter what is offered if it isn't easy then you're not interested.

Personally, I'm not one of those people that is deadset on another exploratory zone, Eureka has my least favorite relic grind. I would take something similar to ARR/HW, even with it being toned down some. People like yourself will of course refuse to have it any other way than it is now though. I can guarantee you that if the relics for DT changed back to an older model you would be screaming about how non-inclusive they are.

As to the relic format, I really enjoyed the variety of things to do from the ARR relic though adding variant dungeons would be a fun alternative. It would help draw more into those dungeons as they are dead 2 weeks after release.

There is no point in having a weapon that is obtained in virtually the same way as another weapon, in this case, the tome weapons.

The relic weapons were also (originally) designed to be a grind, something you can slowly work on through the patches (even if people did go hardcore grinding on them, you didn't have to).

Add onto that the relics actually meant something. You see someone with a raid weapon, you know they have spent time learning and completing the savage raids, you see someone with a relic weapon, you knew they had taken the time to get it. With it being a tome weapon, that symbol has been lost.

Plus, I don't know about anyone else, but having a gruelling grind laid out that you decide to slog through, to feel the relief and satisfaction of getting through it and having a shiny weapon as your reward. You felt like you earned it.

Everything in the EW relic runs counter to relic content in the past and how it had been portrayed. It is a complete kick in the teeth for people who look forward to the grind they have to do to get a weapon that they can show off with. This also includes people who will go after multiple relics. We get the satisfaction from the first one, we want it again. To clarify, I am someone who puts their time into completing multiple weapons per expansion. I would log on and think, I'm going to make progress in my relic grind. I had to go out of my way to complete them. EW relics, so far, I have been able to casually grind out the tomes without even thinking about it and am currently sitting on all 19 at the latest stage and I've played the game less recently so that I can enjoy other games.

Give me a grind. Something I can sink my teeth into and no, a tome grind isn't a grind. That is passive income. It has to be something I go out of my way to do. Ultimately, that is why people enjoy the relics. It is something to do that is outside of your normal dailies/weeklies.

To the tune of Glorybox by Portishead

I'm so tired of playing
Playing with this bow and arrow
Gonna give my heart away
Leave it to the other girls to play
For I've been in PF too long
Just...
Give me a reason to play you
Give me a reason to grind a weapon
I just wanna grind a weapon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Troxbark

So the people who are paid to work, have work to do?

You don't say!

---

ok haha, but there's not all the time in the world to get things done and there is a limit to the amount of money that would be budgeted for the task that limits asks like quadrupling the amount of work needed for each step.

This thread just proves that people in here dont want to play the game, they want to be told to play the game. The self loathing afterwards is the reward people yearn for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

This thread just proves that people in here dont want to play the game, they want to be told to play the game. The self loathing afterwards is the reward people yearn for.

---

This post is just an example of the oral diarrhea thrown out in an attempt to convince people laziness is a good thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

This just proves exactly what I'm saying though....
I came in to talk about what I liked about the Endwalker relics and how they can be improved, but there seems to be no option for discussion. People like yourself are disingenuously claiming that you have had content "stolen" from you or that anyone who disagres with you is "lazy" and "wants a handout".
There is no discussion to be had when one side comes in bad faith and tries to constantly and disingenuously paint the other side like that. There is no compromise with it or discussion, So I suppose we can let this go back to what the last 5 threads about relics have been, people who miss the ARR books whining about how it "means nothing" now that everyone can get a relic, they all agree with each other, echo chamber ensues, and then they are surprised when other people don't share their same opinion.

---

You keep using that word. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

First and foremost, I never once claimed anyone was lazy for preferring this method. I simply stated it requires no actual effort. Which is true. You even acknowledge as much yourself, albeit indirectly, when mentioning how passive they are. That, by definition, is effortless. You aren't actively doing content for the relic but are simply earning tomes through dailies, hunts or whatever that you would have otherwise.

As for content being "stolen". How else would you describe something removed with no replacement. If come JP fanfest they announce outside of the initial 7.0 launch, dungeons will no longer be made so they can put that effort towards a third Ultimate. Would you not feel a bit slighted that content you've enjoyed was taken away to make someone for a different demographic? This wasn't even a case of them trying something new that simply didn't work. They added nothing. In fact, Hildebrand's inclusion kind of feels entirely forced because without making it mandatory, you quite literally have a single quest to begin your relic "journey."

Regardless, for someone insisted the discussion is "disingenuous" or one-sided, your initial post did nothing but lambast Exploratory content and how much you despised it as Neko pointed out. How is that not "in bad faith?" Beginning a supposed discussion with "I essentially hate everything about the old relics" isn't exactly opening up to compromise. Especially when you mouth off about echo chamber nonsense. Plenty of us have different ideas on how we'd prefer the relics to go in Dawntrail. Our only actual agreement is we want something involved. Granted, I'll say this much. The relics have kept the marketboard somewhat alive. So... yay?

Basically, the impression you're giving is you might throw a bone out but what the relic to remain mostly the same going forward. Naturally, a lot of people will disagree outright because this method has been divisive to say the least. So much, in fact, Yoshida himself acknowledged the criticism they were getting.

I'm sorry, if exploratory zones are too much for you, it's not like you have to grind them immediately.

It's probably healthier mentally to do them in short bursts. I mean, who are you trying to impress? Everybody's gonna have the same weapons in the end.

EW relic grind is literally just a tome grind and that's even more boring IMO. Ironic considering that the game is gonna have a content drought that a Bozja/Eureka like content would help fill.

People who like EW relic grind are just people who want their relics without trying.

i would be fine keeping it as relics are in ew IF they give us something else to do. its like a lot of other stuff in this nowadays. there is no flavour anymore. doing the same stuff you do anyway(!) is no fun