Which is basically what WoW was on PvP servers back when I actually played it. Max level players spending all day looking for players less than half their level and running away when someone their level showed up. I remember camping in Ogrimaar with my Night Elf Hunter for hours before leaving bored because the closest thing to PvP I was experiencing was groups of lowbies banding together to try and push me out only to end up as pet food when my King Bangleesh munched on them for attacking me.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiaDeem
Open World PvP
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12-11-2023, 10:55 AMRitsukoSonoda
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12-11-2023, 01:29 PMDiaDeemhttps://64.media.tumblr.com/f382cdda...ypxlo1_500.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
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12-11-2023, 02:15 PMJohncarterIx
i did this in wow you get 10 percent bonus lvling it was fun killing the other guys
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12-11-2023, 05:06 PMRitsukoSonodaYeah basically waste of time. It was essentially the same as kicking in the door to a biker bar while yelling "FIGHT ME" and having all the bikers hide while a bunch of 5 year olds run at you swinging pillows...Quote:
Originally Posted by DiaDeem
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12-11-2023, 05:30 PMAlaray
I don't think this would be that fun in the primary game as a full-time experience, as while I enjoy PvP, it would be annoying just trying to do basic tasks and having to deal with Sasuke Naruto whose only joy in life is murdering people not paying attention. Generally if I want a PvP game experience, to that extent, I'd... rather load up something that actually centers around that experience and is designed with that intention.
But if they decided to do another temporary cloud server event with full PvP enabled... idk, that'd be kinda fun for a little while. -
12-11-2023, 09:27 PMJojoyaBack in Vanilla (and even BC to a lesser degree), that would sometimes work. The stat difference between low level and max level wasn't so large. Once Wrath rolled around, power creep was way too big for a group of low levels to have a chance. All that was left would be level 1 Hogger raids.Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
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12-11-2023, 10:44 PMWolwosh
I would like a complete removal of pvp, not more additions :p
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12-12-2023, 01:53 AM4clubbedace
youd need to have a toggle or the ability to request a dual.
no restrictions would result in open world ganking and thus griefing, retail wow had a masisve issue with this. -
12-12-2023, 06:17 AMRitsukoSonodaThat was back in Vanilla and BC. I stopped giving the game a chance after Lich King. King Bangleesh was also kinda broken OP back then because of how pet move speed scaled. He basically ran so fast it looked like he teleported which made him awesome in contested areas at kicking people off mounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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12-12-2023, 07:16 AMMistress_IrikaBut I love pvp :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolwosh
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12-12-2023, 07:26 AMCidHeiralhttps://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...iking_file.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolwosh
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12-12-2023, 09:03 AMDiaDeemI watched that one South Park episode everyone watched long ago, and at that point I truly wondered if that was a real thing, because if true, it looked to me like a major design oversight and a massive flaw in how the game was made.Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
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12-12-2023, 10:06 AMThurmnmurmn
Didn't read the full thread so someone may have already said this.
I don't see world PvP working at all in this game for the main reason that PvP has its own abilities. If you're just out in the world and get into a fight with another player. How would that work? Your skills switch just for the fight? What about if you're already fighting a monster. Do you then keep PvE abilities or what happens?
In a game where PvP and PvE have different skills, you can't mix the two or you end up with a really dumb system. -
12-12-2023, 10:20 AMStarRosieThere is also the question of if this system allows jerks to just run up and kill DoL or DoH jobs. And also sorta overlooks a key thing that really skews such a system to make players prey on newbies. Everyone flies everywhere...so this would only work in an instanced area that doesn't allow flying, but at that point it isn't open world anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn
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12-12-2023, 10:36 AMRitsukoSonodaIf you were in allied territory which was basically each race's capital city and the zones connected to it you were safe from enemy faction players unless you attacked them first. So going into one of the enemy faction's main cities basically limits you to only attacking NPCs and players that engage you first. Which basically meant all those lowbies died because they initiated combat by attacking me and then were eaten by my pet which was set to defensive mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiaDeem
Contested areas were open PvP for both sides and the low level contested areas were the main areas the complaints came from due to max level players looking for people in the lv 20ish range to pick on. It was possible to pvp ppl in your own faction as well but only via the dueling system. -
12-12-2023, 10:40 AMThurmnmurmnYou can grief newbies pretty easily though. Just go stand on a mob when they try to click it. They accidentally click you and get PvP flagged.Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
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12-12-2023, 11:00 AMDiaDeemOh, so... don't poke the bear type of thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
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Why would they poke the bear unless they had a death wish? -
12-13-2023, 10:43 PMAword3213Crystal Conflict is great and I love itQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolwosh
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12-13-2023, 11:11 PMchaotix69
I think many of you are seeing this through a very narrow minded point of view. Wanting open world PvP doesn’t mean that I, or anyone else that wants it, would just want to gank low level players. I said in the original post that I would recommend putting systems in place that prevent that from happening. It isn’t very hard to come up with barriers that would prevent harassment type activity, and this would equally apply to people who are just out simply crafting or gathering.
A rework would he needed or course, since there exist specific PvP abilities, but why not just merge the two together? The only objection I've seen that is relevant is that there aren’t any warring factions in this game. I don’t believe this is absolutely necessary though. The game needs a fresh change to it, something aside from just the two new jobs we will get and the same old structure that we have been playing for 10 years now. I believe this would be a great start, or at the very least, worth a try. -
12-14-2023, 03:11 AMStarRosieI'm going to be brutally honest here. I think you are as well, and you're ignoring the mountains of data and past examples. I'm sure you and others here have good intentions, but if we look to almost any game that has had open world pvp, the thing they all have in common is high level players hunting and ganking low level players. And putting in some sort of barrier or opt out sort of thing to protect those who don't want to deal with the open world pvp, will just kill the whole idea before it even has a chance to take off. We can look to Red Dead Online, which has open world pvp, for a good example of this. At the start, RDO was plagued with people riding around the starter town and other parts of the map, using deadeye to headshot instant kill people. Even after several nerfs to deadeye, as well as a few other things, people were still riding around ganking low level players. So the devs put in an option you can toggle at your camp that basically did what you're suggesting as a countermeasure to high level players ganking low level players. The vast majority of players for RDO turned this option on, because they just wanted to have funny cowboy adventures with their friends without some jerk riding in and killing them all. So now, most people just ask why the open world pvp is there in the first place. And that's not even getting into the bounty system...Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotix69
This just won't work. Several PVP actions are either entirely unique to PVP or are a job's high level ability, split off to be something else. Examples being WAR just having Primal Rend as an ability in PVP but also requiring their LB to go into inner release and use Fell Cleave. DRG being able to use Wyrmwind Thrust after backflipping, or unique things like WHM's Afflatus Purgation or Miracle of Nature. Would I have to hit some sort of toggle to swap between my skills being in PVE and PVP mode? Or would I just not have inner release available to me while on the overworld? Would I need primal scream to gain access to Fell Cleave again? And what about the PVP limit breaks? This is all the sort of things that pop up with trying to merge these. And this isn't even getting into the under the hood technical nightmare of trying to merge these two systems, I can easily see things like "Due to how MoN is programmed, it can still be used on players who opted out of open world pvp and makes them killable." happening. Or Horrid Roar, Onslaught, and Orogeny working on PVE targets.Quote:
A rework would he needed or course, since there exist specific PvP abilities, but why not just merge the two together?
And again, I really, really think people are overlooking a key factor here. Everyone flies everywhere on their mounts. So unless you are suggesting we take away mount flight, the only people who would be left on the ground for the open world pvp, would be either those who want to take part in it or low level players who haven't unlocked flight in that area yet. Also you would need to IMMEDIATELY shove into new players faces the option to opt out of open world pvp, else they just won't know about it and get ganked 20 times while doing their starter quests. You could have it be opt IN, but then only the small niche this would appeal to would be the ones opted in.
I get wanting something to break or shake up the formula. I really do. Like, I really, really, really do. But an idea like this would only apply to a very small niche of the community, require an enormous amount of work to enable it to work the way you seem to want it to, and just wouldn't be seen as a really viable thing. We also have to look at the devs and realize, this was probably considered multiple times and agreed upon that it just wouldn't work. Yoshi-P has said he is a big WoW fan, and has even borrowed ideas from WoW. So he's likely thought of open world pvp before and decided it just wouldn't fit FFXIV.
The idea might work with an instanced zone like a Bozja for PVP, but then it's not true open world pvp. It is just a system that I do not think can be made to work in FFXIV. For a multitude of reasons, not just that high level players would gank low level players. But also it would be a technical nightmare, require doing some things that may upset the overall community, and possibly scare off new players. Again, I get wanting to shake up the release and content formula, I really really do. But in my honest opinion, this ain't the way. And I'm sorry if any of this has come off harsh.