EW may be one of the worst expansions for raiders but was one of the best for casuals

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Endwalker has been one of the best expansions for demonstrating how many players are susceptible to gaming addictions. They keep saying the game is bad and yet they still can't walk away from it.

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You confuse can't for not wanting to.

How dare people want to play the game they pay a monthly sub for. The entitlement.

People complain about the lack of content because they WANT content. And I mean meaningful content. Not "run around and click on things while occasionally opening menus"

This game makes a lot of money, we should be getting new interesting, engaging things to do. Criterion was handled extremely poorly, Island Sanctuary is objectively nothing, relic quests no longer exist, 24mans were incredibly nerfed (no lb3 day one??) while also introducing zero new mechanics), and the post MSQ is the worse one we've gotten so far (idc if you liked it, Pandemonium quests were way better and you know it).

All of these factors AT ONCE is why many people consider this expansion to be unwashed buttcheeks. They add a bunch of solo stuff while group content is sorely lacking. It has nothing to do with anyone being addicts.

I’d argue the vast majority of casual engagement at this point doesn’t even come from what square releases

Between penumbra, mare and the club scene the speed in increase in modding has likely driven a lot of engagement as people are forced to make their own content.

Midcore is lost without field content and EO being by far the worst of the three deep dungeons that brings nothing new to the table (seriously stop trying to design the deep dungeons to be solo able, POTD is the best because it was never designed to be soloable)

Hardcore unironcially got the most content but hardcore is sick of the stale raid design and the boring jobs

So it’s hard to say who was the best recipient of EW content

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’d argue the vast majority of casual engagement at this point doesn’t even come from what square releases

Between penumbra, mare and the club scene the speed in increase in modding has likely driven a lot of engagement as people are forced to make their own content.

Midcore is lost without field content and EO being by far the worst of the three deep dungeons that brings nothing new to the table (seriously stop trying to design the deep dungeons to be solo able, POTD is the best because it was never designed to be soloable)

Hardcore unironcially got the most content but hardcore is sick of the stale raid design and the boring jobs

So it’s hard to say who was the best recipient of EW content

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The Mogstation my dear gamer.
We all did loose, the midcore, the casuals, the hardcore only the damn shop and SE's bankaccount did win.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

You confuse can't for not wanting to.

How dare people want to play the game they pay a monthly sub for. The entitlement.

People complain about the lack of content because they WANT content. And I mean meaningful content. Not "run around and click on things while occasionally opening menus"

This game makes a lot of money, we should be getting new interesting, engaging things to do. Criterion was handled extremely poorly, Island Sanctuary is objectively nothing, relic quests no longer exist, 24mans were incredibly nerfed (no lb3 day one??) while also introducing zero new mechanics), and the post MSQ is the worse one we've gotten so far (idc if you liked it, Pandemonium quests were way better and you know it).

All of these factors AT ONCE is why many people consider this expansion to be unwashed buttcheeks. They add a bunch of solo stuff while group content is sorely lacking. It has nothing to do with anyone being addicts.

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Basically this. FFXIV has been my "comfort game" for a long time. I enjoy playing it, despite how many out there who would throw around "addicted" or "something something, sunk cost fallacy." I guess I'd call myself a mid-core player who plays almost entirely solo at the moment, but I have a lot of issues with EW's approach to content.

The tomes-based relic is boring, imo. It doesn't offer anything new, I'm still just doing everything I would have been doing already.

Myths, despite being aesthetically amazing, makes me pine after the older approach to alliance raid design. In short, I wish raids were more punishing and engaging, and spent less time tutorializing their own mechanics. In the waiting period for ShB launch, I would q up for Dun Scaith on healer just for the fun challenge of it. I can't see myself doing that with Myths.

Eureka Orthos is... alright. It's a deep dungeon, for the third time. I've already exhausted my interest in it. I wish they'd stop recycling content types like Deep Dungeon, and approach new ideas for repeatable content for Dawntrail. As well as introducing them earlier so I can actually make use of them in leveling jobs.

Island Sanctuary is cute, but every aspect of it funnels through the workshop, which is a time-gate and is only as engaging as your desire to see numbers go up. I do not wish to see future cosmetic rewards gated behind a piece of content like this again.

Pandemonium (as somebody who has not done Savage) was good. Probably my favorite piece of content this xpac, but it's hardly going to tide me over for an entire expansion cycle.

Criterion is a thing I tried to engage with when Sil'dihn was released, but as a solo player on Crystal, progging it (with randoms) was such an immense pain I gave up with a sticky note to come back later. I didn't, and from what I hear, I wasn't missing much.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’d argue the vast majority of casual engagement at this point doesn’t even come from what square releases

Between penumbra, mare and the club scene the speed in increase in modding has likely driven a lot of engagement as people are forced to make their own content.

Midcore is lost without field content and EO being by far the worst of the three deep dungeons that brings nothing new to the table (seriously stop trying to design the deep dungeons to be solo able, POTD is the best because it was never designed to be soloable)

Hardcore unironcially got the most content but hardcore is sick of the stale raid design and the boring jobs

So it’s hard to say who was the best recipient of EW content

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Hardcore raiders may have gotten the most content, but the quality of said content has been rather questionable. I won't touch on the first tier because it's meant to be easy to ease people into savage with unfamiliar jobs, but Abyssos was hit hard and Anabaseios is also hit to a lesser extent. P6S was a savage in name only, P7S was only savage for 3 mechanics, and P10S is sandwiched between 2 fights that are easier, it's quite a mess. I think the only content we got that's almost entirely agreed on to be good was DSR.

Eh, the base Endwalker was pretty good overall, but the post patches have been major let down for most of the part.

I fail to see what's there for casuals? I'm a casual player, and most content I've done during EW cycle was pre-EW stuff. I did do some EXs and Unreals and all of that. Crafters and gatherers had more content than your average casual Joe player.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

I fail to see what's there for casuals? I'm a casual player, and most content I've done during EW cycle was pre-EW stuff. I did do some EXs and Unreals and all of that. Crafters and gatherers had more content than your average casual Joe player.

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Can always get into roleplay and go to venues, you're on the best DC for it. That seems to be the main casual thing to do in this game, especially if you like afking.
/s

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Endwalker has been one of the best expansions for demonstrating how many players are susceptible to gaming addictions. They keep saying the game is bad and yet they still can't walk away from it.

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Imagine complaining because you like the game and want it to be better. Or you liked the game and contemplate its current state (*wink* healer gameplay *wink*).

If anything complainers are barely playing the game, they're actually complaining here (usually because they want it to improve, sometimes because they're bored trolls that have nothing better to do).

All in all, it's been the same for years and has become even more prevalent since the homogenization became strong in ShB.

You should define casual players. To me casual players are people that play a few hours a week (maybe up until 5, maybe 7), and have a lot of content they have not touched (like exploratory zones, for examples), and a backlog they will probably never complete. Those people have probably not seen any problem.

Problems come for players that play more and don't raid or go into high lvl content. They've probably engaged (maybe finished) most of the content. That's the public for which exploratory zone lacks.But those people can't really be called casuals anymore, despite often being grouped with them. Which lead to those situation where some says "it's bad for casuals, then a real casual comes and just say no. It's for those players (more midcore thus) the extension has been awful. If they don't raid, don't engage in very hardcore farming rewards, everything has been one off and they have no reason to do anything in the game right now. It has been a little better for hardcore players because of the raids, but long running content is also done by hardcore players, and they also felt it.

Casual to Hardcore player is not a two pole thing, but a spectrum, and I feel like a lot of the problem in EW are due to not seeing it like that, thus ignoring the whole middle of the spectrum. And this kind of thread participate to that problem.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

You should define casual players. To me casual players are people that play a few hours a week (maybe up until 5, maybe 7), and have a lot of content they have not touched (like exploratory zones, for examples), and a backlog they will probably never complete. Those people have probably not seen any problem.

Problems come for players that play more and don't raid or go into high lvl content. They've probably engaged (maybe finished) most of the content. That's the public for which exploratory zone lacks.But those people can't really be called casuals anymore, despite often being grouped with them. Which lead to those situation where some says "it's bad for casuals, then a real casual comes and just say no. It's for those players (more midcore thus) the extension has been awful. If they don't raid, don't engage in very hardcore farming rewards, everything has been one off and they have no reason to do anything in the game right now. It has been a little better for hardcore players because of the raids, but long running content is also done by hardcore players, and they also felt it.

Casual to Hardcore player is not a two pole thing, but a spectrum, and I feel like a lot of the problem in EW are due to not seeing it like that, thus ignoring the whole middle of the spectrum. And this kind of thread participate to that problem.

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This is the biggest mystery to me. Most of us have hectic work schedules and we'd realistically get a few or so hours of playing the game per day. Which I imagine its a major part of this game's intended audience.

The people who complain about retention are usually the ones whom have all the spare time in the world and honestly consider me jealous.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Can always get into roleplay and go to venues, you're on the best DC for it. That seems to be the main casual thing to do in this game, especially if you like afking.
/s

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Sometimes I truly do regret moving to Crystal DC lol

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

You should define casual players. To me casual players are people that play a few hours a week (maybe up until 5, maybe 7), and have a lot of content they have not touched (like exploratory zones, for examples), and a backlog they will probably never complete. Those people have probably not seen any problem.

Problems come for players that play more and don't raid or go into high lvl content. They've probably engaged (maybe finished) most of the content. That's the public for which exploratory zone lacks.But those people can't really be called casuals anymore, despite often being grouped with them. Which lead to those situation where some says "it's bad for casuals, then a real casual comes and just say no. It's for those players (more midcore thus) the extension has been awful. If they don't raid, don't engage in very hardcore farming rewards, everything has been one off and they have no reason to do anything in the game right now. It has been a little better for hardcore players because of the raids, but long running content is also done by hardcore players, and they also felt it.

Casual to Hardcore player is not a two pole thing, but a spectrum, and I feel like a lot of the problem in EW are due to not seeing it like that, thus ignoring the whole middle of the spectrum. And this kind of thread participate to that problem.

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Even calling it a spectrum isnt all that helpful. Is someone doing p12s reclears for 2 hours per week and otherwise barely logging in a casual player? I'm sure some people will say yes but that's not really the same as someone who just runs one or two roulettes a day and never even touches savage. Hourly requirements are less helpful than we might think.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Sometimes I truly do regret moving to Crystal DC lol

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There's always Dyna for a free way out. :p

Casuals don't care, I(we) just need a good MSQ, mog station, glam & housing.

:)

As some have already said in this thread, Endwalker was definitely good to hardcore raiders in terms of quantity. We got an additional ultimate that ShB did not have, and we were also given Criterion dungeons. However, I think it was moreso the quality of the hardcore content that was lacking (aside from exceptions like DSR for instance). Some examples of this in Endwalker were lack of proper rewards in V&C, Asphodelos was meh and Abyssos was a bad tier, TOP was not a very polished and IMO not well designed fight, as well as countless design decisions in terms of classes and overall boss design.

I believe the casual had it much worse in endwalker IMO. Not only was the quantity lacking, but also the quality. Island sanctuary is just a sweatshop/spreedsheet simulator, MSQ seems to be lacking for some people in the 6.x patch quests, relic is just a tome turn-in, deep dungeon is a near copy/paste of the original, Variant dungeons instead of a fleshed out exploration zone, and there may be other things i can't think of or don't know about at the moment. If you are a casual, your best chance at "content" was probably to just rp at venues (which is available regardless of the quality and quantity of content).

Worst for the raiders ?

It's one of the best for raiders, and one of the worst for casuals

And when the next x-pac Dawntrail nears it's end people will be saying this same stuff about it. In essence, there is no pleasing some people. No matter what they do, because they'll always find something to be bothered about, regardless of how minor or major it is.

Simply just enjoy the game for what you do like. If nothing in the game excites you or interests anymore, try something else. Hopefully you find or have a video game that does bring you a enjoyment.

I guess it all depends on everyone's viewpoint and opinion.

I'm a casual player. I haven't done Endwalker yet, but it having less things to do is a good thing from my point of view. I just reached rank 25 in Zadnor, unlocked Dalriada, and still haven't completed the one time grind of 30 of everything to collect. It's a miserable experience and I'm forcing myself to it. Eureka was a miserable slog too. I just do them for the story.

It took me 4 years to do every yellow, blue and msq quest on the map (bar Savage and Ultimates and EXs SB onward) and to finish all side stuff and I still need to slog through Carnivale for its story too.

I'm happy Endwalker has less stuff in it. I'm exhausted. I can do the content over Christmas and a couple of months after, and finally take a break and start the next expansion along with everyone else.

Maybe I'll find myself complaining too, after next expansion, I get why people might be annoyed. But in my view, Endwalker having less content is a breath of fresh air.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Even calling it a spectrum isnt all that helpful. Is someone doing p12s reclears for 2 hours per week and otherwise barely logging in a casual player? I'm sure some people will say yes but that's not really the same as someone who just runs one or two roulettes a day and never even touches savage. Hourly requirements are less helpful than we might think.

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Hence the "and" after the time period mention. My point was not that time was the criteria, but one of the important ones with casual engagement into the game. If you spend 20 hours a week, even if you don't engage in anything more than low entry content (msq, maybe normal raids and alliance one), you're not a casual anymore. But I never wanted to say you're a casual if you have few hours. It's about how deeply you engage with the game, casual will only go on a superficial lvl (msq, maybe some normal raids or 24 mans instances here and there, some glam, but will not engage in more demanding content (either because of difficulty, time commitment or anything like that). Midcore (I lack better word) will do that, and touch to about everything in the game, to a certain degree, and are often seen as casuals by people that do engage in the most demanding content.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

I guess it all depends on everyone's viewpoint and opinion.

I'm a casual player. I haven't done Endwalker yet, but it having less things to do is a good thing from my point of view. I just reached rank 25 in Zadnor, unlocked Dalriada, and still haven't completed the one time grind of 30 of everything to collect. It's a miserable experience and I'm forcing myself to it. Eureka was a miserable slog too. I just do them for the story.

It took me 4 years to do every yellow, blue and msq quest on the map (bar Savage and Ultimates and EXs SB onward) and to finish all side stuff and I still need to slog through Carnivale for its story too.

I'm happy Endwalker has less stuff in it. I'm exhausted. I can do the content over Christmas and a couple of months after, and finally take a break and start the next expansion along with everyone else.

Maybe I'll find myself complaining too, after next expansion, I get why people might be annoyed. But in my view, Endwalker having less content is a breath of fresh air.

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"I'm fine with having less content, so people who were fine with the amount of ShB of patch content should not ask for that amount of content, so I can catch up".

It's a mmo, and for most of my last year experience in the game has been wonderous tails and caping my tomestones. That can be done in 2 to 3 hours a week. I wish the new content had a shelf life, because I don't have that backlog anymore. It took me years to complete, and I sure don't ask to have as many thing to do now that I had in the past, but still, I want some sort of long running content.

And you probably won't see the problem, because the content is still fine, but the problem is that there is no reason to do anything after the first week the content is out. Bozja used to be that thing to go in those off time, for different reasons. I'm fine with removing exploratory zone, but they should have created a content that served the same purpose. keeping people engaged between those content releases.

2 difficult ultimates and abyssos?

I’m pretty sure you have it wrong. Raiders kinda eating and no one else is lol

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

It's a mmo, and for most of my last year experience in the game has been wonderous tails and caping my tomestones. That can be done in 2 to 3 hours a week. I wish the new content had a shelf life, because I don't have that backlog anymore. It took me years to complete, and I sure don't ask to have as many thing to do now that I had in the past, but still, I want some sort of long running content.

And you probably won't see the problem, because the content is still fine, but the problem is that there is no reason to do anything after the first week the content is out. Bozja used to be that thing to go in those off time, for different reasons. I'm fine with removing exploratory zone, but they should have created a content that served the same purpose. keeping people engaged between those content releases.

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It really is concerning to me how quickly I feel like I've exhausted the content relevant to me in EW, compared to ShB and SB. There's still plenty of older content I can go back and do, and much in EW as well if I pushed myself, but I do hope Dawntrail offers more content with a longer shelf-life.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

I'm fine with having less content, so people who were fine with the amount of ShB of patch content should not ask for that amount of content, so I can catch up

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Wow! Who taught you to misquote and take things so out of context? Strawman much?

I swear, the more I read on this forum, the more I think alot of people need to work on simple comprehension.

Nowhere did I claim that people should, or shouldn't for that matter, ask for more content. I was expressing an opinion, my opinion, that not everyone feels the same. I'm not anything, purely venting on a thread that has no purpose besides venting.

Perhaps you missed my last line, where I said

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Maybe I'll find myself complaining too, after next expansion, I get why people might be annoyed.

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But to someone who's spent the better part of 4 years trying to catch up, there's an unbelievable amount of content to do. And it can be very exhausting when that's all you're ever doing.

The problem with people complaining about the amount of content on this forum, from what I've read, boils down to either players who've been playing the game for a very long time and ran out of things to do (understandable), and are miffed at waiting every patch for something new to do, or players who rush through everything that interests them, binging it in a month and have no interest in doing anything else at all (also understandable).

But maybe you should be a little more openminded and realise not everyone feels the same way, and people have different opinions.

I've seen almost everything the game has to offer, and believe me, the game is most definitely not lacking for content for new players or players trying to catch up and can be, at times, quite overwhelming with the sheer amount of content it has.

Finally,

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

It's a mmo...

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. Yes it is and as an MMO, and a very social one at that, with just a little imagination, you're more than capable of making your own fun too.

Nah. Barely play nowadays and I'm still bored. Kinda like playing Farmville while feeling bored. If you know you know.

Surprised people not mention the PvP rework from 6.1 and the 'series malmstone pass' and the new PvP items you can buy, which gave casuals something to work for and do their daily frontline, or dive into CC.

ive been pretty casual this xpac and i'm severely let down, islands are a farming sim, i didn't buy a mmorpg to play a solo farming sim..

there is really nothing to do.. farming tomes is not content its filler.
the relics are boring as all heck, the story is 40 mins of filler every patch while wasting time till we start the next 70$ expansion, the time between patches was increased and the ammount of content decreased, but the price hasn't changed.

why do i care about farming a glam if i have nothing to even do when wearing it?
the game is so bad that its main draw is that players made their own content with RP.. your paying square to make up your own story or have your weird chat-roulette fantasy..

if your judgment of this xpac being good is because you had good RP then good for you, but thats not content, thats creating your own fun in the lack thereof. everyone loves socializing with friends but being in a discord lobby using addons does not equate to content...

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

I've seen almost everything the game has to offer, and believe me, the game is most definitely not lacking for content for new players or players trying to catch up and can be, at times, quite overwhelming with the sheer amount of content it has.

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And almost all of that is single player. As in, not even NPCs, just bots. It's sad what gaming has come to where playing with bots is an asset. People have been ripped out of every single transaction and circumstance in our daily lives, including in what used to be the most social game genre. Even worse, we're paying monthly for this. We pay the same amount per patch that we would with a full single-player RPG, yet only get 10% of the content.

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Finally, . Yes it is and as an MMO, and a very social one at that, with just a little imagination, you're more than capable of making your own fun too.

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Oh sure you can. People use as many plugins and addons as they want to create entirely new outfits and races and then take them to a club to AFK while playing other games. Judging by Twitch, Twitter, Discord, etc. that seems to be "endgame" for many people in Endwalker.

And you can have the same fun by simply not launching the game. No wonder people love FFXIV so much, you can just never play it and still have fun!

It was a L for both casuals and midcore gamers. No Eureka or Bozja but we got island sanctuary. The real question is what percentage of casual gamers actually interacted with island sanctuary.

We didnt get Eureka or Bozja but got criterion which in the devs perspective was a win, but many saw this as a L in terms of content vs reward structure.

I've been playing casually, sure I do a bit of raiding but not like last expansion where i was engaged in bozja and the extreme trials and the MSQ.

Post EW feels like a series of filler episodes in your favorite anime. I think most people are excited for the new expansion simply because they dont have to deal with the crappy content EW has released.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Surprised people not mention the PvP rework from 6.1 and the 'series malmstone pass' and the new PvP items you can buy, which gave casuals something to work for and do their daily frontline, or dive into CC.

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I considered it, but PvP is an entirely different beast to me. I do Frontline mostly to pass time, though I'm a bit burned out atm after getting the new malmstone armor. I enjoy it, but Frontlines is in desperate need of extensive changes, imo.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Oh sure you can. People use as many plugins and addons as they want to create entirely new outfits and races and then take them to a club to AFK while playing other games. Judging by Twitch, Twitter, Discord, etc. that seems to be "endgame" for many people in Endwalker.

And you can have the same fun by simply not launching the game. No wonder people love FFXIV so much, you can just never play it and still have fun!

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This was always such a weird attitude to me. Judging by those outlets, it seems to me that masses of people love their characters and enjoy expressing that.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

And almost all of that is single player. As in, not even NPCs, just bots. It's sad what gaming has come to where playing with bots...single transaction and circumstance in our daily lives,...what used to be the most social game genre...

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I mean, I don't completely disagree. The MSQ has alot of single player with bots content, but it's optional. You're not forced to use trusts, it's there if people want it. You can also do deep dungeons as solo content if you're up for it but it's not meant to be single player. Eureka? Bozja? PvP? How would you do those with bots?

Sure Doman Enclave, Firmament, Beast Tribes all are solo content, but the meat and bones of the side content definitely isn't. Unless you count solo queuing in Duty Finder as solo content, in which case, I'd rather not have to be screaming in chat for 2 hours for a party to complete a single dungeon.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Oh sure you can. People use as many plugins and addons as they want to create entirely new outfits and races and then take them to a club to AFK while playing other games...

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Yes, the do. But for all the nightclubs and ERP happening, there's just as many cafes, bards, restaurants, taverns, underground fighting tournaments, live storytelling and fashion shows. I know because I've seen them. You won't see those in PF, you've got to look for them. They're there, they exist, so how come nobody ever talks about those?

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

And you can have the same fun by simply not launching the game. No wonder people love FFXIV so much, you can just never play it and still have fun!

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If that's what you really want to do, it's not my place to stop you. I understand what it feels like to be exhausted with the game. The difference is, senior players are exhausted at what they feel is lack of content, I'm exhausted at the amount of content I still have to get through.

Truthfully I could use a break. I've been playing FF almost exclusively for four years. That was the entire purpose of my vent. But taking a break right now would mean Dawntrail releases and I'm yet one more expansion behind.

I don't blame anyone else for how I play the game, I know I limited myself by feeling this need to unlock every possible dialogue option, force myself through content that I absolutely hate. I also understand people who do enjoy that content and want more of it, and if SE delivered, I'd shut up and suffer through it too.

But to say the game lacks content because of one expansion, an expansion that's meant to close off all story arcs no less, is disingenuous. There's lots of content, I've seen it. And for me, the thought of one expansion that is just slightly smaller is refreshing.

And who knows? Maybe in 1,5 years from now I'll be on here also complaining at the lack of content in Dawntrail, then again maybe not. Eventually players are going to run out of content to do, it's inevitable.

Lol peak casual experience was in SHB, the peak casual experience in EW is just /lean in some random city, Adventure Plates were better in beta same as portraits, Island Sanctuary is just a snore fest, Post-MSQ and Alliance can be pretty much done with a blindfold with no rewards.

Peak casual content was stuff you could do in long term that didn't involve Savage or Extremes, and EW has nothing of that, if anything EW was more interesting for raiders than the rest of the player base. I had way more fun as a casual in SHB than EW, im not gonna do hardcore prog on my portrait for hours how is that actual content lol. Oh and the best adventure plates are locked behind Ultimates lol so yeah cool for casuals

It's both a win and a lose for casual players. It's a win for the casual players who have very limited playtime. The dad gamers who can maybe play 10 hours a week. Most of them aren't going to be missing any kind of long form grind they didn't have the time to engage with anyway.

For all the casuals who have too much time on their hands (like me), the content cycle has been pretty meh. I think variant dungeons are great! Maybe the most fun content they've added to the game. But it has no longevity, it's a 6 hour grind.

I have no love for bozja or eureka and did not miss them, nor am I excited for their return in 7.0. But what I did miss was having a 20-40 hour relic grind to do. The ew relic being just tomestones is fine! That's ideal really, it lets people grind a relic however they want. Where the screwed it was making the relic only cost 1500 tomestones. This is is an amount of tomestones I can literally show up with on patch day.

Eureka Orthos was a big disappointment. Not for any quality reason, I just literally cannot queue up for it and get it to pop. I ignored it at release since I was busy playing something else and I am kinda tepid on deep dungeons regardless. Figured I could get it done later on since potd never really died off. But nope, now if I want to do it I'll have to use PF. Which means I will just never do it.

Island Sanctuary decidedly a flop. The only real gameplay is the workshops but those have been awful to interact with until just this very last patch. But the gathering you do in there fuckin sucks so badly. I hate it so much. If I could just gather normally as a btn, min, and maybe fsh I would hate it less. But I have literal hours spent grinding laver and salt at this point so fuck the island. Terrible content.

They did have a couple hits though. PvP series I hate in concept for fomo reasons, but I can't deny that it's a good motivator to get my ass into some frontlines and cc's, which is content I enjoy but have little reason to engage in unless I need tomestones since I got all the wolfmark rewards I want ages ago.

While the combat relic has failed as longform content this expansion, the doh/l relics have not. About 4 hours per relic, I do one a week, it adds a nice bit of longevity.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Wow! Who taught you to misquote and take things so out of context? Strawman much?

I swear, the more I read on this forum, the more I think alot of people need to work on simple comprehension.

Nowhere did I claim that people should, or shouldn't for that matter, ask for more content. I was expressing an opinion, my opinion, that not everyone feels the same. I'm not anything, purely venting on a thread that has no purpose besides venting.

Perhaps you missed my last line, where I said

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Because the line between "I'm fine with it" and "generally it's a good thing" (which imply that every argument about that is false) is small . And in the context of a thread about the state of the content in EW, one is nearly always used for the other. I'm sorry I misinterpreted you, but it made sense in the context of the thread.

EndWalker seems pretty good for raiders and casuals alike. It's just the quantity of midcore combat content / exploratory zones was lacking to keep replayability. Everything else about Endwalker is decent or good for the most part, other than job design direction (120s burst windows) and some encounters being much easier.

We got:

Casual content
- MSQ Dungeons + Trials
- PvP Revamp (+Frontline is a lot more active than before even without tomestone event and Series Malmstones are a thing)
- Island Sanctuary
- Variant Dungeon (Casual but it's more of a once-and-done unlock so replay value is limited)
- Deep Dungeon
- Relics & Hildibrand (Completely casual from doing daily roulettes to get tomestones)
- Alliance Raids being a mixed bag since they had newer features and mechanics, but was so undertuned that it didn't feel any more difficult than your standard trial bosses compared to pre-nerfed Ivalice/Nier on release (and those alliance raids was definitely was a step above casual)
- Adventure Plates & Portraits (Overall good update, but needs a bit more work when portraits break due to glam changing)
- Duty Support (Reworking old dungeons to have trusts and some mechanics for previous fights reworked, doesn't really add much replay value but fights are now slightly different)

Midcore content
- PvP (Crystalline Conflict Ranked Climb to Diamond / Crystal)
- Unreal
- EX Trials (Mixed bag honestly, sometimes it feels casual and sometimes it feels hardcore, difficulty depends on how much you need to prog)


Hardcore Content
- Savage Raids
- An extra Ultimate (DSR to make up for ShadowBringers not having one, Omega Protocol for EndWalker)
- Criterion Dungeon
- PvP Revamp (Crystalline Conflict Ranked Top 100)
- Criterion Savage (Hardcore but without a good reward structure)
- Deep Dungeon (Solo, doesn't hit as hard as previous Deep Dungeons but tires you out mentally because you have less room to be careless due to a bigger focus on consistent mechanical execution)

Did I miss anything?

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

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You're fine. You like what you like. There are some people that do not and have a problem with others actually liking things and expressing themselves and their opinions, but you're fine. Some people just want everyone to be down on the game since they think it increases the odds of it changing, so if someone isn't, they go after that person to try and get them to join the herd. Don't worry about it.

Personally, I think the game needs more, but I can understand your position as well. I think where we need more is in the middle/midcore area, though.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

So you basically enjoy doing absolutely nothing, nice.

Also a majority of players from the WoW exodus have left, hence why the game is back at about 1 million daily players.

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Most, perhaps, but I am here to assure you, not all.

I am into the post-Endwalker MSQ. I'm having a great time, and I don't care who knows it. :)

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

Because the line between "I'm fine with it" and "generally it's a good thing" (which imply that every argument about that is false) is small . And in the context of a thread about the state of the content in EW, one is nearly always used for the other. I'm sorry I misinterpreted you, but it made sense in the context of the thread.

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All good. Apology accepted. I'm sorry too.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

You're fine. You like what you like. There are some people that do not and have a problem with others actually liking things and expressing themselves and their opinions, but you're fine. Some people just want everyone to be down on the game since they think it increases the odds of it changing, so if someone isn't, they go after that person to try and get them to join the herd. Don't worry about it.

Personally, I think the game needs more, but I can understand your position as well. I think where we need more is in the middle/midcore area, though.

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Thank you!

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Originally Posted by iVolke

You confuse can't for not wanting to.

How dare people want to play the game they pay a monthly sub for. The entitlement.

People complain about the lack of content because they WANT content. And I mean meaningful content. Not "run around and click on things while occasionally opening menus"

This game makes a lot of money, we should be getting new interesting, engaging things to do. Criterion was handled extremely poorly, Island Sanctuary is objectively nothing, relic quests no longer exist, 24mans were incredibly nerfed (no lb3 day one??) while also introducing zero new mechanics), and the post MSQ is the worse one we've gotten so far (idc if you liked it, Pandemonium quests were way better and you know it).

All of these factors AT ONCE is why many people consider this expansion to be unwashed buttcheeks. They add a bunch of solo stuff while group content is sorely lacking. It has nothing to do with anyone being addicts.

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They're able to play the game if they want. Nothing is stopping them. They don't even have to pay the monthly sub = the free trial exists.

The question is why are they paying a monthly sub for a game they call bad?

Why are they continuing to pay a monthly sub if there is no content that is meaningful to them?

What "bunch of solo stuff" did they add? Creating options for content to be done alone is addition to with others does not mean it must be played solo. There's still far more efficiency in playing though a dungeon with a party of players than a party of NPCs.

If you think this expansion is "unwashed buttcheeks". why are you still here paying a sub instead of cancelling the sub and walking away like a rational person would do? The game isn't going to change because you and others toss juvenile insults at it and the developers.

Either you are lying about how bad you think the game is, or you are addicted. In either case, you've got problems.

Be a smart consumer. Stop paying for something that you think lacks quality and put your money into products and services that deliver what you expect. By paying, you're saying you find the state of the product/service acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

Basically this. FFXIV has been my "comfort game" for a long time. I enjoy playing it, despite how many out there who would throw around "addicted" or "something something, sunk cost fallacy." I guess I'd call myself a mid-core player who plays almost entirely solo at the moment, but I have a lot of issues with EW's approach to content.

The tomes-based relic is boring, imo. It doesn't offer anything new, I'm still just doing everything I would have been doing already.

Myths, despite being aesthetically amazing, makes me pine after the older approach to alliance raid design. In short, I wish raids were more punishing and engaging, and spent less time tutorializing their own mechanics. In the waiting period for ShB launch, I would q up for Dun Scaith on healer just for the fun challenge of it. I can't see myself doing that with Myths.

Eureka Orthos is... alright. It's a deep dungeon, for the third time. I've already exhausted my interest in it. I wish they'd stop recycling content types like Deep Dungeon, and approach new ideas for repeatable content for Dawntrail. As well as introducing them earlier so I can actually make use of them in leveling jobs.

Island Sanctuary is cute, but every aspect of it funnels through the workshop, which is a time-gate and is only as engaging as your desire to see numbers go up. I do not wish to see future cosmetic rewards gated behind a piece of content like this again.

Pandemonium (as somebody who has not done Savage) was good. Probably my favorite piece of content this xpac, but it's hardly going to tide me over for an entire expansion cycle.

Criterion is a thing I tried to engage with when Sil'dihn was released, but as a solo player on Crystal, progging it (with randoms) was such an immense pain I gave up with a sticky note to come back later. I didn't, and from what I hear, I wasn't missing much.

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So is it a bad game you don't enjoy, or is it a game you still enjoy but has room for improvement?

"Not wanting to quit" a game you genuinely think is bad and don't enjoy is a sign of addiction.

If it's just a matter of "I think things could have been better this expansion", I can agree with that. There are some things I felt could have been better. But I don't think it's a bad expansion. It just wasn't their best effort and coming on the tail end of what was arguably their best effort to date, the difference stands out more.

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Originally Posted by Teno

Imagine complaining because you like the game and want it to be better. Or you liked the game and contemplate its current state (*wink* healer gameplay *wink*).

If anything complainers are barely playing the game, they're actually complaining here (usually because they want it to improve, sometimes because they're bored trolls that have nothing better to do).

All in all, it's been the same for years and has become even more prevalent since the homogenization became strong in ShB.

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My comment about addiction isn't addressed at those who think there was room for improvement.

It's addressed to those who have repeatedly called it a bad game but still won't unsub.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

"I'm fine with having less content, so people who were fine with the amount of ShB of patch content should not ask for that amount of content, so I can catch up".

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What less content in Endwalker? We got the same content as usual with the exception of an exploratory zone, that was replaced by a Deep Dungeon and Variant/Criterion that we didn't get last expansion.

Stop confusing "nothing I'm interested in repeating" with "less content".

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

ive been pretty casual this xpac and i'm severely let down, islands are a farming sim, i didn't buy a mmorpg to play a solo farming sim..

there is really nothing to do.. farming tomes is not content its filler.
the relics are boring as all heck, the story is 40 mins of filler every patch while wasting time till we start the next 70$ expansion, the time between patches was increased and the ammount of content decreased, but the price hasn't changed.

why do i care about farming a glam if i have nothing to even do when wearing it?
the game is so bad that its main draw is that players made their own content with RP.. your paying square to make up your own story or have your weird chat-roulette fantasy..

if your judgment of this xpac being good is because you had good RP then good for you, but thats not content, thats creating your own fun in the lack thereof. everyone loves socializing with friends but being in a discord lobby using addons does not equate to content...

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So what were you doing in previous expansions that didn't amount to farming tomestones and isn't available this expansion?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They're able to play the game if they want. Nothing is stopping them. They don't even have to pay the monthly sub = the free trial exists.

The question is why are they paying a monthly sub for a game they call bad?

Why are they continuing to pay a monthly sub if there is no content that is meaningful to them?

What "bunch of solo stuff" did they add? Creating options for content to be done alone is addition to with others does not mean it must be played solo. There's still far more efficiency in playing though a dungeon with a party of players than a party of NPCs.

If you think this expansion is "unwashed buttcheeks". why are you still here paying a sub instead of cancelling the sub and walking away like a rational person would do? The game isn't going to change because you and others toss juvenile insults at it and the developers.

Either you are lying about how bad you think the game is, or you are addicted. In either case, you've got problems.

Be a smart consumer. Stop paying for something that you think lacks quality and put your money into products and services that deliver what you expect. By paying, you're saying you find the state of the product/service acceptable.

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TLDR : "why complain and give feedback ? just quit bro lmao"

I enjoy mostly casual content and I was bored out of my mind through post-ew. It was so lacking in replay factor or even baseline enjoyment for me. Island sanctuary was just a boring cookie clicker. Adventure plates are a nitpicky mess, liable to fail if even one thing is out of order. Variants were actually pretty fun, but getting people to run them with you after like... the first two days? Forget it. People finish the content in like a day and have no incentive to go back. The alliance raids were a snore. Aglaia was a breath of fresh air after nier, but euphrosyne and w/e the new one is called were forgettable. The post-story was bland and felt like a filler mission. The relic was a joke. I was holding out hope for dawntrail, until I watched the devs actually doubling down on this crap going forward, citing engagement metrics like blizzard used to do. "The relic was a success because a lot of people got a relic!" Yeah, okay bub. And in the background of all this, they keep ruining every job I enjoy; they ruined ast, they ruined bard, I'm sure in dawntrail they'll ruin ninja and whatever's left of scholar too. And every new dungeon they come out with is dumbed down so trusts can do it. You just run down hallways until you meet a boss that dies in 90 seconds. And nine times out of ten, the glams are recycled from other sets! This sucks, man.

For the first time in years, I've actually cancelled my recurring subscription and don't plan to renew it. I guess in time I'll lose my house, but I don't really care anymore. I was bored at work and saw this thread and actually started laughing when I read the title, because it couldn't be further from the truth for me. The only people who ate well in post-ew were sweaty raiders who got to enjoy multiple ultimates, and, I guess, some decent savages? I don't even know; all I saw them do was complain about prog, so maybe they were hating it too. But yeah no, as a casual this patch was ass, miss me for Dawntrail unless Magnai joins the scions and personally apologizes to me for the last two years with a kiss or something; I'm out.