Do you guys want a bad community?

Pokemon.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts.

SE is too blame for this also if they wouldn't of released such a broken game some of these problems would go away.
Unfortunately we have to deal with these open forums and all the negativity, trolling, and other things going on here.
SE should learn from this I don't know why you guys open threads like this it's not like you haven't visited other game forums in the past, yes you will still have negativity and attacking each other in other forums where the games launched ok. But when you have a game this broken released it's like adding fuel to a flame all I can say is " too bad"

Hey gais, wut's going on in this thread?

More relevant, I never thought the FFXI community was as amazing as people like to let on, and were just as if not more so elitist as other MMOs. Of course I never made it to all the end-game stuff in most other MMOs as my interest usually petered off before then, so what do I know?

I agree with Malakhim.

President of the "I Refuse to Unlock NIN Club" here.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Hey gais, wut's going on in this thread?

More relevant, I never thought the FFXI community was as amazing as people like to let on, and were just as if not more so elitist as other MMOs. Of course I never made it to all the end-game stuff in most other MMOs as my interest usually petered off before then, so what do I know?

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This. And yes, I did XI endgame, and still play. It always had a gated community sort of mentality. You're everyone's best friend, until you deviate from the community standards and dared some originality (subbing the aforementioned /NIN [and various other job combinations that were MUSTS], or putting a pink plastic flamingo on your lawn), then you were a moron and/or didn't care about the community.

XIV seems roughly on par for that course.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

because there are people that wants to see this game become a better game.

i enjoys this game and still plays it daily but still doesnt hide the fact that its not a game that can compete with incoming MMOs (short form : this game still sucks.)

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And surely you don't think that the continuous and gratuitous use of inflamatory and intentionally hyperbolic, not to mention completely uncostructive terms and attacks will help making a better game? because In that case I see a quite impressive amount of delusion here.

@Shinchuck: when "mainstream" elements, as you call them will guarantee (or even support) any kind of long lasting success in the post-wow MMORPG market, your signature will have any validity :D

For now history established that "going mainstream" is the perfect way to destroy any kind of hope of success past the first few months.
If you didn't notice the market for that kind of games is full, and any new game that's launched trying to squish to gain some room in it, ends up a failure after a few months, no better than FFXIV.

So I would doubt that the ones pushing for the game to be just a copy of other games (that will always have more content simply because they have been launched earlier, and release expansions to pull back people periodically) "have SE's back" in any way. Quite the contrary.

This, of course, without mentioning the undeniable fact that considering some of the basic systems of this game valid and advocating that they need to be built upon instead of totally scrapped and replaced hardly means being a "fanboy".

But of course, having an inflammatory (and rather nearsighted) signature that splits people between "fanboys" and "haters" is another of those elements that don't really help the quality of the community and of the discussion in any way. Quite the contrary.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

And surely you don't think that the continuous and gratuitous use of inflamatory and intentionally hyperbolic, not to mention completely uncostructive terms and attacks will help making a better game? because In that case I see a quite impressive amount of delusion here.

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One could say that hyperbolic comments from any direction are bad. overly negative comments that don't amount to anything other than "wah wah shit game wah wah" aren't anything more than wastes of forum space and internet bandwidth, while overly positive comments just come off as delusional comments that have no basis in objective reality.

That being said, there's a world of difference between constructive criticism and outright trolling(and if any of you find having your posts being considered that way, then maybe you should rethink your posting style).

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Originally Posted by Abriael

And surely you don't think that the continuous and gratuitous use of inflamatory and intentionally hyperbolic, not to mention completely uncostructive terms and attacks will help making a better game? because In that case I see a quite impressive amount of delusion here.

@Shinchuck: when "mainstream" elements, as you call them will guarantee (or even support) any kind of long lasting success in the post-wow MMORPG market, your signature will have any validity :D For now history established that "going mainstream" is the perfect way to destroy any kind of hope of success past the first few months. So I would doubt that the ones pushing for the game to be just a copy of other games (that will always have more content simply because they have been launched earlier, and release expansions to pull back people periodically) "have SE's back" in any way. Quite the contrary.
This, of course, without mentioning the undeniable fact that considering some of the basic systems of this game valid and advocating that they need to be built upon instead of totally scrapped and replaced harly means being a "fanboy".

But of course, having an inflammatory (and rather nearsighted) signature that splits people between "fanboys" and "haters" is another of those elements that don't really help the quality of the community and of the discussion in any way. Quite the contrary.

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Now, we're both reasonable people, and we'll concede that certain popular aspects of MMOs are popular for a reason. Neither of us is so unreasonable as to say, like some extreme fanbots, that mainsteam = bad gameplay mechanic, or popular = automatically bad idea.

I said nothing about the definition of fanboy in my sig. You're responding to your own ideas and thoughts of what you think others consider a "fanboy." So I'm not sure what your point is, because it's rather unrelated to my lil siggy there.

We both can agree constructive criticism is the way to go, not simple "Yes Man" responses. So we're on the same page there, and we agree that's what SE needs to improve, rather than mindless fanboyism simply telling them their game is perfect.

Are you telling them their game is perfect? No? Then it's not directed at you. You'd agree that telling them there's absolutely nothing they could improve upon is bad? No? Alright then, your ninja edit is unnecessary, and we're on the same page. We both think coddling them is bad, and that constructive criticism is good.

Well, anyway, good talking to ya.

What we talking about in this thread, im lost, elitisim?

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

One could say that hyperbolic comments from any direction are bad. overly negative comments that don't amount to anything other than "wah wah shit game wah wah" aren't anything more than wastes of forum space and internet bandwidth, while overly positive comments just come off as delusional comments that have no basis in objective reality.

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That's, of course, completely true, while my experience in official forums tells me that for basically every game bashing attempts that tend to blindlyattack the game in an inflamatory and uncostructive way a la "the game sucks!" are quite a lot more widespread of the pretty rare "the game is absolutely fantastic! Don't change a single bit!".
Actually, I'm quite sure I saw less than a couple people in this forum stating that the game is fantastic and should remain as it is. Ergo, I would say that the first category is, at the moment, a more present menace for the quality of discussion.

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Originally Posted by ShinChuck

Now, we're both reasonable people, and we'll concede that certain popular aspects of MMOs are popular for a reason. Neither of us is so unreasonable as to say, like some extreme fanbots, that mainsteam = bad gameplay mechanic, or popular = automatically bad idea.

I said nothing about the definition of fanboy in my sig. You're responding to your own ideas and thoughts of what you think others consider a "fanboy." So I'm not sure what your point is, because it's rather unrelated to my lil siggy there.

We both can agree constructive criticism is the way to go, not simple "Yes Man" responses. So we're on the same page there, and we agree that's what SE needs to improve, rather than mindless fanboyism simply telling them their game is perfect.

Are you telling them their game is perfect? No? Then it's not directed at you. You'd agree that telling them there's absolutely nothing they could improve upon is bad? No? Alright then, your ninja edit is unnecessary, and we're on the same page. We both think coddling them is bad, and that constructive criticism is good.

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Considering that, as said above, there's very, very few people in this forum (actually I would say almost no one, and I wouldn't be able to pinpoint even one off the top of my head) that say that the game is fantastic and nothing should change, that kind of signature is rather unrealistic and hyperbolic, ergo inflamatory. If you adress a group that doesn't exist, people will naturally consider a larger group in order to read your sgnature with any reflection in reality.

While some mainstream mechanics aren't necessarily bad, a radical steer towards the mainstream would simply make this game jump in a pool of sharks that fight for a market niche too small to support them all. That's why all the "wow/everquest/daoc clones" in the market so far simply sank. WoW holds most of the customerbase hostage with their level 85 characters, and no matter what SE does, it will always have more content, it will always release new expansions to act as a siren's song to call them back. So if "mainstream" is a demonstrated way to failure, innovation seems to be the only commercially sound way to pursue. Innovation doesn't mean that ALL of the mechanics need to be innovative, but a large percentage does.

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Originally Posted by viion

What we talking about in this thread, im lost, elitisim?

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Cake versus pie.

Cake versus pie is stupid like your elf ears.

Pie wins hands down every time.

jerk

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Considering that, as said above, there's very, very few people in this forum (actually I would say almost no one, and I wouldn't be able to pinpoint even one off the top of my head) that say that the game is fantastic and nothing should change, that kind of signature is rather unrealistic and hyperbolic, ergo inflamatory. If you adress a group that doesn't exist, people will naturally consider a larger group in order to read your sgnature with any reflection in reality.

While some mainstream mechanics aren't necessarily bad, a radical steer towards the mainstream would simply make this game jump in a pool of sharks that fight for a market niche too small to support them all. That's why all the "wow/everquest/daoc clones" in the market so far simply sank. WoW holds most of the customerbase hostage with their level 85 characters, and no matter what SE does, it will always have more content, it will always release new expansions to act as a siren's song to call them back. So if "mainstream" is a demonstrated way to failure, innovation seems to be the only commercially sound way to pursue. Innovation doesn't mean that ALL of the mechanics need to be innovative, but a large percentage does.

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Hey, read into my sig all you want. You're the one who responded based on your own definitions.

I never said clone things, I simply said too often the argument is "you want a clone of WoW", which really misses the boat on whether something is a good idea or not. I said "some" which implies that we should be open to ideas from all over, even popular ones. And you obviously agree.

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Originally Posted by Commat

Cake versus pie is stupid like your elf ears.

Pie wins hands down every time.

jerk

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Hey there! I am squarely in the pie camp as cake is for babies and girls(and crazy robots).

Thanks for that. I just let some lalatard die in behest because i was laughing so hard at that.

But pie is gross.

Pie is gross.

last time i read that was in a text book, Hitler said it... sicko

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Originally Posted by trinta

But pie is gross.

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Reported. > : (

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Originally Posted by ShinChuck

Hey, read into my sig all you want. You're the one who responded based on your own definitions.

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There isn't much to read. if you define "fanboys" the ones that think that some mechanics should stay, then that group does exist (but the fact that one thinks that some mechanics should stay harly makes someone a "fanboy", he's more someone that has a realistic outlook on the market and on the resources SE has to change this game for the better). If you define "fanboys" the ones that think that the game shouldn't change at all, then I'm sure you understand that that group is work of fantasy, and your signature lacks any reason to be. That's all there's to it.

The argument "you want a clone of wow" has at least some validity, as the more the game turns similar to wow (or it's clones, or any game from which wow copied), the less the game will have a chance to get it's own market slice.

There *already* are many mechanics in the game that are similar to wow. Got to be careful in introducing more.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

"fanboys".

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Anyone who is gunna call someone a fanboy is probably just mad cuz they're baddie.

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Originally Posted by ShinChuck

Reported. > : (

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:(

No cookies for you.

We can play "let's define fanboy!" to amuse Abriael all day, but I feel fine with it in the context used in my signature. You can debate it if it makes you feel better.

I do agree with the WoW mechanics thing, but as stated, we both do, which is why I'm not sure why you're belaboring a point that we're on the same page with. The point is "mainstream = bad" is irrelevant to the debates on the validity of something.

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Originally Posted by ShinChuck

I feel fine with it in the context used in my signature. You can debate it if it makes you feel better.

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Looks like someone lost lot on E body in 2007 and never got over it.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Looks like someone lost lot on E body in 2007 and never got over it.

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Yeah, the wounds still run deep, and I... wait, what?

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Originally Posted by Visch

Looks like someone lost lot on E body in 2007 and never got over it.

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Huh?

/10char

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Originally Posted by Evangela

so this thread is a legacy from this one?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-disappointing!

I think he's just a WoW fan who came here to bash the game

I never play XI too but I can control my character at first trying

is it really possible? can't even move character? seriously

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if you just read the first post it seems like that. If you read his other posts he appologises, saying he is not used to a game like this. Or the control or UI set up. WoW UI and ffxiv UI look similar but are infact very different.

I can see where he was coming from and also you know this game is a bit more complex then appears. He assumed it had similar controls Like WoW and that wasn't the case. When I tried WoW I was a complete idiot. I had to read the book 3 times before I figured out how to move my character.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

. I had to read the book 3 times before I figured out how to move my character.

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people these days dont know what an instruction book is, sad isnt it, thats also a major problem, people want to know how to play something without having to learn

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

people these days dont know what an instruction book is, sad isnt it, thats also a major problem, people want to know how to play something without having to learn

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it happens. More so if your a big gamer. Games start having similar set ups so its like why bother reading the book.

Off quote.

never just look at the front page you tend to miss things. For a "obviouse Troll" he sure said sorry about what he said a few times. Saying it was just him.
And infact he was saying the game was bad cuz its not easy to jump into as WoW is "supposedly". Take some time reading a thread page by page.

I also post on here from my ps3. We have a limited about of stuff we can type.

Another note, what does content have to do with being nice to someone?
And i know ffxi had bad eggs, but the ratio was not that bad like for ever 20 ppl 5 was bad. Least thats my experience. But mostly ppl do help when asked, maybe not right away but they do help.

All I read was the topic.

This thread really seems useless and stupid and will cause unnecessary drama.

The community is awesome in game so far as I seen it. Everyone is nice and groups. Japanese players invites me to behest's ect. I have been getting to know my linkshell more and grouping with a couple members. The forums will always be iffy. You will always have people be trolls or bashing people. Its just the way it works.

why should it be like that? It shouldn't.
I am happy to hear ingame community is good. In Aion and WoW forum mirrors the community. forums are bad, in game is worst.
I just don't wanna see FFxiv become Aion or WoW in community.
It sucks being a newbie on these games.

I love the community on Mysidia. I've yet to meet a bad person.

As for the forums, if someone bothers you that much, put them on your ignore list. That's what I did, and my experience has been much more pleasant. ^_^

I think community in online games is always a bit hit and miss.
I used to play ultima online and for me that community , i have never seen anything like it ,everyone was amazing in that game even the player killers.
I think it's still there even today but i would not go back to ultima online because the game does not appeal to me anymore.

Final Fantasy 11 was different , i met some people in game that i really think where great people to meet , i dont have lots of real life friends in the online games i play so have to go meet others in game that i dont know.
However for all great people i met there was another side where i could be on a forumn side of the community , voice a view on something and feel like i was being insulted , not everyone is like that.

Games fans nowadays , not just online games fan seem to focus on the negatives alot , sure things in games can be not great or done as well as we like but i miss the time when i felt postive about a game , final fantasy 7 is the most amazing game of all time to me and i read forumn post on it now from some people that just want bash it because it is what it is.

Its not everyone best game , someone may think wizadry for example is the most amazing game they ever played , so i understand that but i dont know many people that would try flame that game to pieces.

Yes im a videogames fanboy , because its what i love.

I am very aware of what happened in japan , and life there, and even now think did they put game server back too soon.

I just want say thank you to them the final fantasy online teams, like so many others for supporting there fanbase ( by geting servers back online) and even though maybe they know someone effected by things there , our prays are there for everyone.
I hope the people i meet in game i can enjoy time with them , i already met some great people so far and sure many more.

So i say try enjoy yourself and think postive.

I think this community is the best you can get(which isn't bad). There will never be the perfect community with everybody so loving and caring. Why? The same reason its impossible to ever truly have world peace. People have their own opinions combined with different personalities and on these forums thats exactly what you're going to get.
In game the community is even better which is a good thing also.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

While a good community is always preferable to a bad one, I have to agree with Evangela on this one. That guy was an obvious troll. I'm sorry... even the stupidest person in the world wouldn't take 1 hour to figure out how to attack.

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Actually that person was simply very frustrated and did not understand the value and wisdom of knowing how to title your threads so as not to invite instant flaming. With a title like that people do not read the CONTENT but either skim missing key points or just ignore the actual post and bash away.

That's one lesson to be learned and the other is that it is in fact better to answer a thread without insulting anyone and if something really, really upsets you it's a good idea to ignore it for the time being until you have calmed down. Simple things we forget sometimes when our emotions get the better of us.

Cen is right, I took time to read the thread. He wasn't really bashing the game at all. Just said he was sad that the game controls are so complicated. Irony is, most the ppl who bashed him, also bashed the game. Then come in here assuning i'm name calling which isn't true either.

Asking someone not to act like something, is not saying or calling them that something.

Like asking someone to stop acting like a jerk is not really calling them a jerk

To name call you point out that they are such and such.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Ok this is in responce to some of the bashing and rude comments seen on this forum.

From my understanding, we have this forum to help improve the game, but also start building a great community. And so far this isn't the case. People are bashing, flaming, trolling other people. I can't speak for myself as I regreat some stuff I said. But from my years on ffxi, it was known for it having a helpful nice community. Yes there where bad eggs, but it was rare. Least in my eyes.

Pretty much this is my beef. Someone made a post saying up for lack of better terms upset on how difficault learning the games controls are. And a good % of the posts are being rude to the poster. Going as far as to say go back to WoW. Personally, I think that isn't needed. We should take the oppritunity to make this forum and game have a great community. If someone asks for help or seems troubled, help them out don't flame them. That will only chase ppl away. I think as you guys put it games bad enough w/o a horrific community.

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The only people who want a bad community are the trolls. The FFXIV community as a whole is great. The forums rarely effect the quality of the actual community in-game. This forum has no more trolls than any other mmo forums. You must remember the majority of trolls stick to 'general' discussion., because its is the most visited and used section of mmo forums its easier to get a rise out of people that way.

The other forums around here are pretty good imo.

If you don't like something just close the thread and move on. If I commented on every post that annoyed me my thread total would be over 1,000 easy. Turn the other cheek and find a topic that doesn't irritate you.

If I wanted a bad community, I would go to church.

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Originally Posted by trinta

I agree with Malakhim.

President of the "I Refuse to Unlock NIN Club" here.

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lol. i would have been president of the "i refuse to sub whm club" if there was one

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Originally Posted by Verecund

If I wanted a bad community, I would go to church.

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hahaha

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Originally Posted by Neptune

lol. i would have been president of the "i refuse to sub whm club" if there was one

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OMG, that's my other club. I was RDM/SCH before it was cool.

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Originally Posted by trinta

OMG, that's my other club. I was RDM/SCH before it was cool.

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Lol, we need to be friends. You need to join the explorer's club. I was RDM/BLM. I told party leaders to stuff it for years, never leveled whm past 1.