Zepla: Most Wanted Changes in FFXIV

Is that person even wrong?
Im actually asking, this isnt me being cute and snarky.
Do we have proof or evidence that he is even wrong?

I think I saw that all critiques and issues get funneled here into General.
And Ive also noticed its practically the exact same people posting. Some of them even made alts. Every once in a blue moon we will see legit new users.

I guess I dont have an ironclad metric of evidence that he is right, but I just have a few years of experience being here on the forums, mostly just seeing the same people.
These same people cannot mathematically equal a Majority of the Playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Is that person even wrong?

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We have zero definitive evidence, because the only people that could give us that would be SE if they made a survey. But we don't have any proof that the game is thriving, and that people complaining are a small minority either. They sure are not a majority, but there are reason to believe they are not a small margin anymore, and represent a good chunk of the playerbase. All we have is what we can observe and some external metrics to assess the game health. Would you ignore what 45% of a group said because 55% says there is no problem (numbers just taken for example, I don't imply 45% of players are complaining).

Despite having no definite proof, we can see several hints that something is wrong.

First of all, since we're in (another Zepla thread), there is the fact that the opinion there is something wrong has been spread around and generally well recieved by many content creators.

Then talking about Reddit, even r/ffxiv seem to agree to some point to that stance. That type of discourse would have been downvoted to oblivion in no time there a couple of years ago. Yet that it has some kind of weight there.

There is also the relative desertion of the game right now. One of the best hints of that is the status of the housing market. Plenty of plots are available to buy, but most are not even bid on. Housing avalaibility has been a common problem since at least Stormblood, and even in during the off times, it never got to the point it is now in.

There is the fact during the april to june period, the MMO division of SE (that also cover DQX and FFXI, but of that is from FFXIV) saw fall of revenue of 22% compared to the same time period last year. It's labeled as a return to pre-covid situation, but it seem slightly late for that to me. It might be only that, there might be more to it. But it's hard to say if there is more to it before getting the july to september numbers.

I could also talk about the recent luckybancho metrics, but there is a full topic on that. Rapidly, if you can't take those numbers as facts, they're not totally irrevelant either. It's still gives you information on the activity of a certain section of the playerbase (achievement hunter, hardcore gamer), and it's dropping. by a lot. And from my experience those are generally the last to leave the ship.

The whole healer and jobs thing is something that's shared in other part of the forum, that far less a jungle than the english forum. I sometime use google trad to translate titles/first post of japanese and german forum, and the healer complain is general.

None of those prove anything, but you can still see some kind of trend from that. That despite all the good things, there a form of displeasure with the state of the game right now.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Is that person even wrong?
Im actually asking, this isnt me being cute and snarky.
Do we have proof or evidence that he is even wrong?

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Maybe he is not wrong. So? What to gain from it? Discarding any critique with the excuse "But you are the minority!" is a tactic as old as the world. And also terrible.

Players are voicing their concern, discussing problems that are indeed present in the game.And suddenly another user appears and shouts: "Nobody cares, you are minority!"
This serves absolutely no reason, because it is a terrible argument and also drags the discussion in the wrong direction.

Are you happy with the state of the game? How good for you! Please, keep enjoying the game. Or get better arguments, if you want to actually discuss things.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

At some point this needs to be addressed. We're approaching the fifth expansion and level 100. Having an absolute slog of a combat system for upwards of 70-80% of the leveling experience will make it that much harder to attract new players, especially in a 10+ year old game.

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Its so true.. so many skils could get "light" versions with less dps/stacks - or just no buffs/debuffs till later, less range... some jobs are almost broken on low level while some others are fine...

...then theres stuff like DK having his gabcloser 50-60ish while all other tanks gotta wait more lol

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Originally Posted by Remember_The_Name

Maybe he is not wrong. So? What to gain from it? Discarding any critique with the excuse "But you are the minority!" is a tactic as old as the world. And also terrible.

Players are voicing their concern, discussing problems that are indeed present in the game.And suddenly another user appears and shouts: "Nobody cares, you are minority!"
This serves absolutely no reason, because it is a terrible argument and also drags the discussion in the wrong direction.

Are you happy with the state of the game? How good for you! Please, keep enjoying the game. Or get better arguments, if you want to actually discuss things.

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The second a person starts to talk bad to me / about me, you'll have the usual people who dislike me standing up for them, it's like clockwork really, no matter the topic or if the person is right or wrong, they'll agree with them just because they're agaisnt me, I wish it was just me thinking it at this point but it's so obvious when it happens every single time.

Also in regards to if he is wrong or not, I'll post both quotes

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Originally Posted by ChonkGoblinSuprem

“most wanted” [citation needed]

ITT: vocal minority continues screeching

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

The minority is people enjoying the game as it is.

See ? I too can say that x or y are a minority with absolutely no evidence at all.

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I did the same thing as he did right after him, yet have no evidence of my claim, and neither does he.

It's very easy to claim that X or Y is a minority, anyone can do it, but it'll make absolutely 0 sense until you prove otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

Embarrassing but not unexpected. Just look at this forum and the xiv subreddit. If you even hint at the game not being perfect here, you're accused of being a troll's alt account[...]

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I would support this claim, if more people who post critic, would learn the actual difference between their personal, subjectiv opinion and facts (aka, just because i think something is bad, it does not mean, everyone have to think the same. See for example "unrewarding Jobs".)

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

Embarrassing but not unexpected. Just look at this forum and the xiv subreddit. If you even hint at the game not being perfect here, you're accused of being a troll's alt account (because all criticism must only come from 1 man) and reported lol

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i eagerly await the day im called a titanmen alt or something else stupid

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

tldr for those who cba to watch

Zepla mentions the following issues in no particular order

1. Netcode
2. Glamour dresser
3. Gearing taking forever
4. Menus/inventory system
5. Difficulty of installing/setting up your account
6. Level sync removing actions

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1. no
2. no
3. no
4. no
5. no
6. no

Something could be made better but they aren't real problems.

it's not like "your problems" are "the world problems".

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

1. no
2. no
3. no
4. no
5. no
6. no

Something could be made better but they aren't real problems.

it's not like "your problems" are "the world problems".

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thank you for your amazing input, very detailed, I'm sure me and a lot of people have learned a lot from this amazing take

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Level sync removing actions is a necessary evil.
The community of this game chases the path of least resistance, so getting a sprout with fewer spells is going to mean you go slower in all content. Really wouldn't want to see sprouts kicked so people can do their roulettes faster.
This is the community that would harass sprouts into skipping cutscenes in praetorium or just flat out speedrun it at the detriment of them, because they just wanted to clear asap.

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They could at least look at how some jobs feel at lower levels. Some of the melee don't even get an AOE until either 40 or 38, which feels extremely bad. (poor dragoon). NIN could also benefit from getting huton and armor crush much earlier. I don't think any of these changes would make certain melee jobs too OP or harder to understand, they would just make them a bit more fun at lower levels.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

1. no
2. no
3. no
4. no
5. no
6. no

Something could be made better but they aren't real problems.

it's not like "your problems" are "the world problems".

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You're the person people talk about when the phrase "toxic positivity" is mentioned

It's a shame that Zepla didn't mention the direction jobs are taking and their homogenization.

What's even more unfortunate is the abscence of discussion regarding an instanced cross-data center server for the duty finder and party finder,
this would make it easier to find groups and tags instances, and it's clearly a feature that could be implemented,
especially given the current issue of some datacenter experiencing reduced party finder activity due to players congregating on other datacenters.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

thank you for your amazing input, very detailed, I'm sure me and a lot of people have learned a lot from this amazing take

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My pleasure.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

You're the person people talk about when the phrase "toxic positivity" is mentioned

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while you are the person people talk about when the phrase "I have nothing important to say but I write anyway" is mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

My pleasure.



while you are the person people talk about when the phrase "I have nothing important to say but I write anyway" is mentioned.

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So like what you just did? Lol lmao

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Originally Posted by Oizen

You're the person people talk about when the phrase "toxic positivity" is mentioned

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100 percent!!

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Maybe if she didn't need them to like her for clicks and views / paycheck she wouldn't have to care like anyone else here.

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Oh dont kid yourself this community *will* dox and harass you endlessly if you don't agree with them.
Look at anyone who's exposed for having mods getting run out of the game/social media

a lot of people in this thread give off the red flags of abuse, what has square done to you? its some sad Stockholm syndrome.. "no, no please dont correct the game, its what i deserve, plus if you tell them to shape up it will only make them angry"

yeah its dumb to mass align with the opinions of streamers, you know, unless they are actually right about something.
we get it, you are a unique individual, and it was your ideal first to wear 2b leggings as a fashion accessory.
it is both possible to be a streamer and have a valid take. *sometimes*

i watched her vid, it was pretty down to earth, and she is right, if you play any other mmo's out there you can easily realize that square is just giving the players the run around..

the square code is the equivalent of the ice cream machine at McDonald's, they say its broke, but anyone that works there knows plain and simple they just dont wanna be bothered with cleaning it.

the glam dresser is terrible, and it is only slightly better than nothing because this game hordes storage like its a plastic straw at a Cali starbucks..

the content keeps getting shorter, less zones, less quests, less reason to log in.
the gear system is do dailies get to weekly cap and leave, pretty sure this formula was what helped push the wow mass exodus. and i'm sorry but 6 months of 1 dungeon is trash game play.

as for the website stuff, its the worst game I've ever played in that department, and i play literal small indy mmo's that require having regg codes emailed to you that can take up to a day to arrive before you get to input it and have your game time.

square cares so much more about looking prestigious than actually making meaningful game play, they care about their over priced trailers more than the players they are meant to attract.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

I watched her vid, it was pretty down to earth, and she is right, if you play any other mmo's out there you can easily realize that square is just giving the players the run around..

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Doesn't that worth both ways though? I mean, by the same token, there are MMOs that are worse for doing whatever SE are being accused of.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Re: 6 - This has always irritated me. Yes it would be hard to balance but ultimately weapon damage is determined by main hand weapon damage, not potency so a 300 potency attack at lvl 10 does a whopping 30 damage vs a 10 damage (100 potency) ability. Woo hoo, you don't have to cast 2 more times. . .

Point being, it can be done. Easily.

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The thing is though, WD at lower levels is so flattened from job modifier values that it has very minor impact on the final damage output compared to raw potency, which in the FF14 damage formula, is effectively a damage multiplier. It's easy to showcase when even in SHB when WD values weren't flattened and were the same as back in ARR, yet jobs were doing massive amounts more damage than before. Why? because potency matters far more when not at least one level bracket away from the current level cap where WD's impact on the formula matters much more due to the pseudo-exponential power growth of FF14's stat system through its job modifers, and jobs in SHb were vomitting multiple times more potency left and right in old dungeons.

For example, A level 90 DRK can output 9k potency using their full kit and proper MP/Gauge banking during a 2min vs a 30 DRK outputting 1800~ during the same window. Even assuming identical weapon damage to equalize the already minimum impact is has on the damage formula at that level, that's literally 5x more damage for free. Let's not even talk about the hilarious joke of damage difference that would be 15 ROG in Sastasha vs 90 NIN. There's also the ultimate can of worms that is 'how do you balance something like Holy Shelltron that the lower level PLD has no equivalent of" without basically pretending it doesn't exist by nerfing it so hard into the ground and making the whole point of uncapped level sync pointless by making you play a ghost of what your job was.

Even games like GW2 who have done "better" syncing systems still have issues with equalized power in them, as plenty of my friends who play (and myself have dabbled in) have shown/told me. Speaking as a former game dev, trying to balance such a system is basically untenable. Not impossible, but untenable due to the continuous, constant development overhead it introduces. Any adjustment at all, from the slighest potency tweaks to the overhauls of jobs would cause any meticulously thought out, planned calculations and scalings in order to equalize every possible level range against every other level range (The same scaling variable that could theoretically allow a 90 PLD to stay in line with a 16 GLD will severely underperform a 70 PLD, for example) to instantly go up in smoke and create endless overhead.

It'd be the absolute epitome of wasting game development time when they already have a system that achieves what it was intended to do already in place and is effectively future proofed for all time and has exactly zero overhead.

Unless you have some magical solution to tightly balance every job against every level within that job, for the perpetuity of this game's lifecycle without ever needing adjustments, that is as simple to program as your current competition, this following if statement:

if (player.jobLevel > duty.maxLevel)
{
player.isSynced = True;
player.jobLevel = duty.maxLevel;
player.jobStatModifier = findJobModifier(player.jobLevel);
}

If my former team were the ones in charge of handling balance for FF14 and someone pitched that idea to us, they'd be laughed out of the design room in a heartbeat.

So long as the game wants players of lower job levels to be within a certain balance threshold of higher level players within the same duty, the level sync system ain't changing. It'd be absolute peak stupidty for them to trash their extremely "works as intended" system for something that would introduce far more chaos and overhead into their dev cycles that would force time to be spent on it and away from other stuff when people already complain about lack of content as it is.

You want an actual solution to low levels not being engaging that any serious game designer wouldn't just immediately perform the futurama 'oh wait you're serious, let me laugh even harder' meme on you for suggesting? Bypass tweaking the level sync system entirely and just shuffle skills downward in levels, or introduce new skills that evolve into later ones through traits/actions. All players will share the same skills at the same levels maintaining the desired in-job balance Level Sync accomplishes, but kits will be fuller quicker. It wouldn't totally solve the issue, but it would make lower levels far more tolerable if by 50 you have the majority of your main gameplay loop completed. This would also double function in making the experience more entertaining for newer players instead of just making it more enjoyable for higher level players.

WAR is probably one of the better examples of this currently in-game, where by 50 you effectively have all your tools you'd have at 90 besides additional actions like OGCDs & Primal Rend. You have your Maintain Buff, your 1-2-3 & your Gauge spender. Everything beyond that is just upgrades/additions that don't change WAR's gameplay loop far too substantially, the only noticeable change being IR at 70 simplifying your gauge spending at 1 minute intervals. Contrast to a job like RPR, which doesn't get it's defining job ability until 80, leaving so many levels of dead air where its excruciating to play. Even doing something like Enshroud, Arcane Circle & harvest at 50 and simply relegated the OGCD part of Enshroud as the 80 reward would do wonders for RPR's synced kit.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Doesn't that worth both ways though? I mean, by the same token, there are MMOs that are worse for doing whatever SE are being accused of.

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I see that classic whataboutisms are still alive and well on these forums, lol.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

I see that classic whataboutisms are still alive and well on these forums, lol.

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Okay - fair point.

But nonetheless, having previously played an MMO that became increasingly predatory (and Devs openly confrontational toward players via Twitter) over the years leading up to my giving up on it for that very reason, I do tend to find SE's business model and attitude toward players more player friendly in comparison.

I am so sick of seeing this woman's name, in these forums.

It's a good thing nobody is obligated to post in any thread related to her, then.

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Originally Posted by mythgraven

I am so sick of seeing this woman's name, in these forums.

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Go do something about it then

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Originally Posted by mythgraven

I am so sick of seeing this woman's name, in these forums.

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How dare someone state their opinion and criticise a videogame. Grrr.

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Originally Posted by mythgraven

I am so sick of seeing this woman's name, in these forums.

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A streamer that plays this game is talking about the game ?

https://media.tenor.com/QImoLsquM_EA...s-seinfeld.gif

How dare she ? Honestly the absolute audacity

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

A streamer that plays this game is talking about the game ?

https://media.tenor.com/QImoLsquM_EA...s-seinfeld.gif

How dare she ? Honestly the absolute audacity

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"I dont care if many of her points and discussion are stuff I agree with, I just dont like her therefore she BAD"

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Originally Posted by mythgraven

I am so sick of seeing this woman's name, in these forums.

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Then why post in a post related to her instead of ignoring it and providing nothing to the thread other then stating you don't like her and not providing any counter feedback to her points.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

Then why post in a post related to her instead of ignoring it and providing nothing to the thread other then stating you don't like her and not providing any counter feedback to her points.

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It's hard to ignore when half of the first page of general discussion is streamer talk.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's hard to ignore when half of the first page of general discussion is streamer talk.

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Well you can also just not respond to them

You are most welcome for this quality advice

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's hard to ignore when half of the first page of general discussion is streamer talk.

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I just don't understand the whole " I dislike this person so I'm going to post in a thread related to them and provide nothing to the topic but tell people i dislike them". It's not hard to ignore threads on topics that someone doesn't like and feeling the need to tell people of there dislike for someone.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

I just don't understand the whole " I dislike this person so I'm going to post in a thread related to them and provide nothing to the topic but tell people i dislike them".

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They just have to say it, they cant hold back from saying it

They see Zepla and their mind goes

"MUUUUUUST... SAY.... I DONT LIKE HEEEEERRRRR...."

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

They just have to say it, they cant hold back from saying it

They see Zepla and their mind goes

"MUUUUUUST... SAY.... I DONT LIKE HEEEEERRRRR...."

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I find it funny when people say it's hard to ignore and not to post in threads related to her when it's a lot easier to just ignore all the threads related to her and just not post in it.

All the snark is misguided and useless.

I'm welcome to not post in one of the multiple, multiple Zepla threads.

And you're welcome to post *in* those threads.

Or even post in the youtube comments section.

Dismissal is easy. Arguments are difficult. This is a discussion board for ffxiv. It's not a board for staning streamers.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's hard to ignore when half of the first page of general discussion is streamer talk.

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All I have to say is when even the most unconditionally positive content creators start voicing their concerns about the state of the game that's probably an indication that things need to improve.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

They just have to say it, they cant hold back from saying it

They see Zepla and their mind goes

"MUUUUUUST... SAY.... I DONT LIKE HEEEEERRRRR...."

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They see people who disagree with them and their mind goes

"MUUUUUUST ... DEFEND... MY CELEBRITY CRUSH..."

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Originally Posted by mythgraven

They see people who disagree with them and their mind goes

"MUUUUUUST ... DEFEND... MY CELEBRITY CRUSH..."

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Ah yes because I say she has the right to her opinion I have a crush on her

Clearly that's it

No, but I think you realize boiling down someone's argument to the asinine isn't helpful.

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Originally Posted by mythgraven

All the snark is misguided and useless.

I'm welcome to not post in one of the multiple, multiple Zepla threads.

And you're welcome to post *in* those threads.

Or even post in the youtube comments section.

Dismissal is easy. Arguments are difficult. This is a discussion board for ffxiv. It's not a board for staning streamers.

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Okay, then engage with the argument. Someone usually posts a TL;DW. Post number 3 in this thread has one.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

I just don't understand the whole " I dislike this person so I'm going to post in a thread related to them and provide nothing to the topic but tell people i dislike them". It's not hard to ignore threads on topics that someone doesn't like and feeling the need to tell people of there dislike for someone.

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I dislike the entire general discussion taken up by "OMG guys streamer said ..." threads. Moreso when they're so painfully low effort that they just link a 30 minute video and say nothing else.
If you have something to say, say it, don't make dozens of threads about "Zepla says", "Arthars says", "Happy says", etc over and over, just write something and come up with an opinion on your own for 5 seconds.