Meaningless Battles...

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I think the writing in a great majority of this game is fantastic. Many exciting and heartfelt moments. So I don’t share OPs opinion at all. Which is fine, they are entitled to it and it doesn’t impact me one way or another that they decide to denigrate it as lazy.

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Except the OP isn't talking about the writing as a whole, just about XIVs overuse of the trope of beating an enemy in an in-game fight, only for them to just hand-swipe it away in a cutscene.
Did you not read the actual post? (*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

And which of my previous posts are you referring to?

Are you once again taking things out of context just because you've decided to pick on me then use your alt accounts to upvote yourself?

You could at least try saying something constructive if you disagree with me instead of going on the attack but then I guess we really can't expect better of you.

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I’d just ignore this alt account. Still laughing in another thread they tried to pretend to be an anti-drama saint but here they are rudely attacking others and stirring the pot for no reason once again.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Except the OP isn't talking about the writing as a whole, just about the trope of beating an enemy in an in-game fight, only for them to just hand-swipe it away in a cutscene.
Did you not read the actual post? (*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))

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I did. And because I enjoy a great majority of the writing this doesn’t bother me. Narrative needing to move ahead happens. Our WOL is already mostly a Mary Sue I’m a bit tired of always succeeding with no effort.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I get the item loss thing but why are you supposed to 'know' that you need to loose. It's supposed to instill tension or establish a threat. Other than that I agree.

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That's the thing that bothers me. I'm okay with the story needing me to lose, but then actually make the boss too hard to handle.

Make them an HP sponge that ramps up the mechanics spam until you can't dodge anymore or something, but XIV bosses get slapped around the room in solo fights with ease until they reach 1% at which point they just do their "you lose" move.

It feels cheap because the boss never felt like a threat until the cutscene goes "Ackchyually, the boss was totally too strong for you".

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I did. And because I enjoy a great majority of the writing this doesn’t bother me. Narrative needing to move ahead happens. Our WOL is already mostly a Mary Sue I’m a bit tired of always succeeding with no effort.

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Couldn't you also say that being a Mary Sue is also a problem though too? (●´ω｀●)ゞ ~?
The mixture of the two problems make the story feel forced and/or too predictable. (；´д｀)ゞ

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Couldn't you also say that being a Mary Sue is also a problem though too? (●´ω｀●)ゞ ~?
The mixture of the two problems make the story feel forced and/or too predictable. (；´д｀)ゞ

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Yes it’s an issue. Our WOL waltzes in and is uniquely more powerful and talented than everyone around them at pretty much anything they set their mind to. They typically out-master people who spent their entire lives on their jobs and crafts in short amounts of time. It’s ridiculous but I’ve come to accept this and still enjoy the writing despite my feelings about how dumb this is.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Yes it’s an issue. Our WOL waltzes in and is uniquely more powerful and talented than everyone around them at pretty much anything they set their mind to. They typically out-master people who spent their entire lives on their jobs and crafts in short amounts of time. It’s ridiculous but I’ve come to accept this and still enjoy the writing despite my feelings about how dumb this is.

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I'm fine with out-mastering people at fighting, but I wish we were a bit less amazing at arts and crafts on top of it. Those quests could easily be more down to earth with less "you're our only hope" business.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I'm fine with out-mastering people at fighting, but I wish we were a bit less amazing at arts and crafts on top of it. Those quests could easily be more down to earth with less "you're our only hope" business.

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For sure. It feels like after a couple hours the masters are like “wow you are already as good as I am!” And later better than them on skills my WOL really only does in passing.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I think the issue is HOW the unwinnable battle is presented and not the fact it exists. I wanna say Xenoblade Chronicles 2 does it several times where you are just absolutely SPANKING the enemy. I mean just straight up handing them their sorry butts and the cutscene plays out where they just immediately hand wave you away like you were a fly the entire time.

Um. No. I was beating the crap out if you. Your bar was zero and you barely touched me. The cutscene should reflect that.

If they want it done right...the boss needs to be fast, your attacks do negligible damage and they hit you and you are practically half dead.

Now the cutscene makes sense. You really were a joke to them and that's how it played out in combat.

Also yeah ToD is on my top 10. PS1 was golden age of a lot of JRPGs.

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Also this as well. Make the bosses actually hard but aaaaalmost winnable so you dont quickly catch that the fight is unwinnable if it turns out theyre easy

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Originally Posted by Hayden

Anyone else kind of OVER Square Enix lazy writing? Namely, battles that mean nothing.

Scripted fights that force you to lose, and serious boss battles where winning means nothing.


Winning the battle, and losing in the cut scene is a favourite trope of Square Enix and I'm kind of over it?

Like, give the villian a back up plan, make something else happen. Make my win feel like it mattered.

Quit letting villian's shake off asskickings.

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This is a general disease infecting many games, not just FF14. WoW was notorious for this, you finish some giant raid and the cutscene would play, the NPCs would run in and whack the boss pretending they beat him and then he'd run away. This happened constantly at some points it was almost every single fight and was infuriating. They don't do it anywhere near as much in FF14 but it really gives me the shits when they do. The latest instances of this happening was SUPER egregious and didn't even need to happen for the story to continue, they just wanted to introduce a FF trope character.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

That's the thing that bothers me. I'm okay with the story needing me to lose, but then actually make the boss too hard to handle.

Make them an HP sponge that ramps up the mechanics spam until you can't dodge anymore or something, but XIV bosses get slapped around the room in solo fights with ease until they reach 1% at which point they just do their "you lose" move.

It feels cheap because the boss never felt like a threat until the cutscene goes "Ackchyually, the boss was totally too strong for you".

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Oh yeah, that also grinds my gears. The opposite is true as well were the big bad in,say, HW is built up to be this all-powerful being and then you kill them within a minute and barely receive damage. Or you skip cutscenes. Why this is okay in a story driven game I have no idea.

A few examples of unwinnable (or winnable by extreme amounts of skill/luck/stats) i enjoyed were the following and why.

Resident Evil 5 - Wesker fight 1. He starts off saying he only has 7 minutes to "play" with you. Ok. Survive is the name of the game. He dodges every round fired at him. However you can make him retreat earlier if you figure out how to get the door on the side unlock by letting him kick you through it. Now you can blindside him when he loses track of you. Do a LOT of damage and he retreats and you're rewarded with a gem that sells a lot.

Metal Gear Rising - Jet Stream Sam will straight up parry anything you do. If you parry HIM it still chips off a good portion of your health. It's battle of attrition and you don't have the resources if you are good or just get trounced if you are still learning the mechanics.

Metal Gear Solid 2 - Lady Luck. It shows in cutscenes that bullets swerve away from her and any explosives thrown/shot at her will just defuse and be duds. You fight her in a locked room and of course...bullets just swerve away from her. She fires at you and the only way to not die is hide. However she is destroying all the hiding spots. You notice the elevator is coming down so now you know it's a waiting game. The elevator comes down only for a wl2nd boss to appear right when you are pretty much down to the last bit of cover that exists in the room. The fight ends here.

Edit - 5 not 4. MY BAD!

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Resident Evil 4

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I'm sure Wesker versus Leon would have been a short fight.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

I'm sure Wesker versus Leon would have been a short fight.

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I dunno...Leon does have those sick roundhouses and suplexes.

I fixed it though.

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Originally Posted by Hayden

Anyone else kind of OVER Square Enix lazy writing? Namely, battles that mean nothing.

Scripted fights that force you to lose, and serious boss battles where winning means nothing.


Winning the battle, and losing in the cut scene is a favourite trope of Square Enix and I'm kind of over it?

Like, give the villian a back up plan, make something else happen. Make my win feel like it mattered.

Quit letting villian's shake off asskickings.

Most recent update, the cut scene made that whole fight mean nothing, and I felt as if the work I put into winning was for nothing.

Eh, dunknow...it wouldn't be a big deal if they didn't pull this shit at LEAST once an Xpac?

just me?

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I'm not going to dunk you; because, you're right. Nothing annoys me more than having the control of my character arbitrarily taken away from me and it heartens me to read other players feel the same aggravation.

For example, there's a quest where you are setting up an ambush on a beast tribe because they were stealing crystals and kidnapping people for Ifrit. You end up being betrayed, and your ambush was in fact, a trap. I have actually been in the process of defeating all the amarji quite soundly only to have my victory snatched away because of " story reasons."

"..."

I strongly feel, rather than having our skill rendered meaningless due to linear quest line structure, the quest lines instead have branches which reflect our victory or defeat. It doesn't matter if the branches merge together later in the quest line. What matters is that we as players have our successes and defeats reflected in the story.

In the quest line I mentioned above, we could either have lost the ambush fight and ended up as a prisoner who breaks his bonds to face Ifrit, or we could have won the battle, followed the two bad guys as they fled to the amarji lair, and faced Ifrit in order to bring the merchant and his accomplice to justice. It could all be done with a few additional cutscenes and quest text.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

they should introduce AI to the boss mechanics... would be interesting to never be able to cactbot or write any guides to anything, especially for savage and ultimates, it would be nice when we get to be it that it is the player having to do things and not by some dork with a mic video.

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I fully expect this to happen in the future as AI and computing power increases. It'll be awesome!

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

This was a big issue I had with the latest extreme. Actually pissed me off a bit, it was so frustrating. Though I do have the stance of "if you have to force the protagonist to sit there and listen to the villain monologue/let the villain enact their master plan and the protagonist just sits there and lets it happen, your writing might not be very good". I don't appreciate forced idiocy/ineptitude for my character. It's not very hard to have SOMETHING happen that prevents the protagonist from not being fully capable of stopping you and just not doing it because we gotta let the narrative happen!

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Yeah, monologuing and forced idiocy annoys me too. I hope that trope disappears some day.

Sekiro did it best imo with the first Genichiro fight. You're not expected to win against him but if you do you get a modified cutscene where Genichiro is visibly on the ropes and has to take advantage of Sekiro getting distracted by a Nightjar shuriken to lop off his arm.

It's a lot better than a villain going dusts off shoulder "That was an interesting little diversion, now die," after you just hit em with a 99 hit combo while they helplessly get juggled around like a ragdoll.

I liked how it was handled at one point in Tales of Symphonia. During the first visit to the Tower of Salvation, there's three boss fights in a row. The first fight has to be won. The second fight is nigh-impossible to win, but if you do (most likely because you're on a New Game Plus), you get a different cut scene afterwards, where the third boss interrupts you from finishing off the second boss.

The third boss handles it less well, unfortunately. Since it's a preview of the final boss, he just plain stops taking damage after a bit; you just have to hold out for a timer, then another cut scene takes over. Even if you're so over-leveled that his attacks are doing scratch damage and your healer can more than handle it, you still get "defeated" so the plot can go on.

Honestly, yeah. If I'm gonna lose anyway, I want the stuffing beaten out of me. I want to struggle. I agree with Renalt - I haven't played any of the RE games, but MGS/MGS2 handles it really well.

I have hope for 7.0 and beyond, though. I feel like with the ARR remake, SE is finally starting to get at least a little bit comfortable with making you take a beating. Spoilers in case any sprouts are reading this thread (what are you doing? go play the game!):

New Lahabrea defeats you during the fight. You are mathematically unable to prevent his attack, no matter the DPS you pump out, and you die. Hydaelyn rezzes you and you wipe the floor with him, but it's a start.

I really, really hope that this is an indication that going forward, story beats and instanced battles are going to be more in line with each other.

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

I always had the feeling that our Wol is weak, and cant do shit w/o the power of friendship..x)

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I dunno I mean we can take on entire armies and win single handedly, we can squish monsters like bugs. Ye those same monsters can tear and entire regiment of the maelstrom finest elites to shreds. They can't even scratch us though. Even if we fight 10 times as many of them single handedly..

Honestly it ruins the story with how powerful the player is. Dire peril world is doomed there is no hope. But along we come and save the day without even raising a finger or breaking a sweat..

Even the unwinnable battles. Like zenos. Oh okay he's big strong and powerful. The rematch against this guy is gonna be tough. But then you suddenly squish him like a bug... what gives....

Ruins the story and atmosphere. Hard won fights are never hard won.

Oh I forgot about Star Ocean 2. When you first face off against the 10 Wise Men they set 2 of them on you while the others go bugger off. Till this point you are strong enough to do thousands of damage easily but against them you are lucky enough to get a swing on them before they are elsewhere and speed casting high levels spells on you. If you do manage to hit them it is pretty much a tickle. You don't need to "hold out till X amount of time passes", you don't need to "do x amount of damage", and there is no trick. They are literally the same level and strength they will be when you fight those two again later. It's basically a level 80 monster when you are level 50. The fight ends when they actually just put you down.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Off topic. If that's what's Jojoya is doing, all I can say is that is odd.

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The same poster, or another with a very similar face, was accusing quite a number of posters of being chatbots in a previous thread.

Simple logic test: How long has coherent AI text generation been a thing? How long has the poster been posting?

And how quickly can you discredit someone if all you need to do is say "you sound like a chatbot" and others believe you rather than forming their own opinion of the other person?

I am a bot. Beep Boop.

https://i.ibb.co/r41W8sx/sex-robot-robot-sex.gif

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Originally Posted by Dzian

I dunno I mean we can take on entire armies and win single handedly, we can squish monsters like bugs. Ye those same monsters can tear and entire regiment of the maelstrom finest elites to shreds. They can't even scratch us though. Even if we fight 10 times as many of them single handedly..

Honestly it ruins the story with how powerful the player is. Dire peril world is doomed there is no hope. But along we come and save the day without even raising a finger or breaking a sweat..

Even the unwinnable battles. Like zenos. Oh okay he's big strong and powerful. The rematch against this guy is gonna be tough. But then you suddenly squish him like a bug... what gives....

Ruins the story and atmosphere. Hard won fights are never hard won.

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We haven't had that many truly solo victories against the major antagonists, though. We've almost always been accompanied by other players or NPCs. We've been "scratched" on many occasions. We may be powerful, but not so powerful that we're able to stand alone against anything.

A villain's last minute escape doesn't get to me as much as when the antagonist doesn't just kill us when they have the chance. Yes, we've got the plot armor but it would be nice to have more of our own escapes believable.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The same poster, or another with a very similar face, was accusing quite a number of posters of being chatbots in a previous thread.

Simple logic test: How long has coherent AI text generation been a thing? How long has the poster been posting?

And how quickly can you discredit someone if all you need to do is say "you sound like a chatbot" and others believe you rather than forming their own opinion of the other person?

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I'm not worried. They're here for drama by their own admission. Tossing them the occasional bone helps cut into their daily post limit (at least on that particular account, who knows how many of their other accounts aren't banned at the moment).

I don't come here to be popular or liked. I'm here to discuss a game I enjoy regardless of the flaws, which are frequently present in most MMORPGs. If some of my opinions are unpopular, then they're unpopular. I'm at least willing to defend my reasoning and point out where I see potential weaknesses.

It's just a shame that a few of the forum regulars are here to stir up trouble instead of discussing the game and that the moderators allow it to happen.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

But that's why we fought him alone cause everyone else was busy or just lost to a voidsent version of their sibling. We left due to having an injured teammate and our extra protection starting to wane. As I said in my reply to Mollusk the devs want to give us all of this dialogue, but aren't able to have it happen at the speed they want to be showing it. Also what would you have made the trial be? Everyone expected to have a fight against Globez at some point. Sure they could have done it in a solo trial where we'd probably end up losing but then what would the trial be? Since they chose to have them tied to the MSQ.

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In part, yes, but I think, specifically for Golbez, it was unsatisfying because we had him beat down, victory music and all. He was kneeling/shrunk in size and should have been easily dealt with. Fraction of a second from victory.

This would have been a good chance to have the fight utilize new or interesting mechanics where Golbez himself is not necessarily the target/victory condition. It could have just been at...10% become a "Survive until your allies can evacuate you!", where Golbez leaves the battlefield and we deal with his mechanics but he's out of reach (think like Xande meteors).

And, at the end of the fight, no victory music, no kneeling Golbez. He's still good to go, albeit roughed up. And we're chasing him, but we're too late to stop Zeromus' awakening. Rest of the scene could play out fine.

Alternatively, just let us kill him- but it not be Golbez at all but one of his Voidsent just looking like Golbez. A bait and switch while Real Golbez is finalizing his summoning/awaking ritual.

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The hard to swallow part is just that: he was kneeling, he was whining "my power!", and he was for all intents and purposes beat. Until he wasn't. That's where it's unsatisfying.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

In part, yes, but I think, specifically for Golbez, it was unsatisfying because we had him beat down, victory music and all. He was kneeling/shrunk in size and should have been easily dealt with. Fraction of a second from victory.

This would have been a good chance to have the fight utilize new or interesting mechanics where Golbez himself is not necessarily the target/victory condition. It could have just been at...10% become a "Survive until your allies can evacuate you!", where Golbez leaves the battlefield and we deal with his mechanics but he's out of reach (think like Xande meteors).

And, at the end of the fight, no victory music, no kneeling Golbez. He's still good to go, albeit roughed up. And we're chasing him, but we're too late to stop Zeromus' awakening. Rest of the scene could play out fine.

Alternatively, just let us kill him- but it not be Golbez at all but one of his Voidsent just looking like Golbez. A bait and switch while Real Golbez is finalizing his summoning/awaking ritual.

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The hard to swallow part is just that: he was kneeling, he was whining "my power!", and he was for all intents and purposes beat. Until he wasn't. That's where it's unsatisfying.

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I guess the reason why I wasn't as bothered is how he escapes in IV. Where he literally is shown as just a hand before he steals a crystal and vanishes. Garuda does a similar thing. She says "Noo. No my power." gets the wind crystal popped out of her chest. Then doesn't dissipate soon after like most primals and is about to have a showdown with both Titan and Ifrit only to have Giaus come in with the Ultima Weapon. Up to that point in the story she should be turning into aether dust particles as that's what we saw both Titan and Ifrit do soon after defeat. Yet there she is only looking slightly tired and royally pissed that she had been beaten in a fight. Showing some moxie until the Ultima Weapon sets its sights on her and she tries to flee before getting eaten. And she didn't even have excuse of no active lifestream that Golbez did.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I guess the reason why I wasn't as bothered is how he escapes in IV. Where he literally is shown as just a hand before he steals a crystal and vanishes. Garuda does a similar thing. She says "Noo. No my power." gets the wind crystal popped out of her chest. Then doesn't dissipate soon after like most primals and is about to have a showdown with both Titan and Ifrit only to have Giaus come in with the Ultima Weapon. Up to that point in the story she should be turning into aether dust particles as that's what we saw both Titan and Ifrit do soon after defeat. Yet there she is only looking slightly tired and royally pissed that she had been beaten in a fight. Showing some moxie until the Ultima Weapon sets its sights on her and she tries to flee before getting eaten. And she didn't even have excuse of no active lifestream that Golbez did.

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That is true; and to be fair it is all an expected trope in Japanese media. Like people don't even bat an eye at them/it's shocking if the heroes actually kill an enemy after they are weak/surrendered.

So are you two gonna get a room, or did I bring this popcorn for nothing?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

So are you two gonna get a room, or did I bring this popcorn for nothing?

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Popcorn is never a waste.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

So are you two gonna get a room, or did I bring this popcorn for nothing?

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Just lock the door or I'll come in with pizza.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

In part, yes, but I think, specifically for Golbez, it was unsatisfying because we had him beat down, victory music and all. He was kneeling/shrunk in size and should have been easily dealt with. Fraction of a second from victory.

This would have been a good chance to have the fight utilize new or interesting mechanics where Golbez himself is not necessarily the target/victory condition. It could have just been at...10% become a "Survive until your allies can evacuate you!", where Golbez leaves the battlefield and we deal with his mechanics but he's out of reach (think like Xande meteors).

And, at the end of the fight, no victory music, no kneeling Golbez. He's still good to go, albeit roughed up. And we're chasing him, but we're too late to stop Zeromus' awakening. Rest of the scene could play out fine.

Alternatively, just let us kill him- but it not be Golbez at all but one of his Voidsent just looking like Golbez. A bait and switch while Real Golbez is finalizing his summoning/awaking ritual.

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The hard to swallow part is just that: he was kneeling, he was whining "my power!", and he was for all intents and purposes beat. Until he wasn't. That's where it's unsatisfying.

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This, all of this.

You get it.

I'm not complaining that we didn't win, I'm complaining that they made our win feel meaningless. We won the battle and lost in the Cut Scene. It's lazy, uninspired and annoying. Even the OG game FFIV did a better job and that game is FULL of "win in the battle, lose the in teh cut scene"

Eh...whacha gonna do I guess.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

This would have been a good chance to have the fight utilize new or interesting mechanics where Golbez himself is not necessarily the target/victory condition. It could have just been at...10% become a "Survive until your allies can evacuate you!", where Golbez leaves the battlefield and we deal with his mechanics but he's out of reach (think like Xande meteors).

And, at the end of the fight, no victory music, no kneeling Golbez. He's still good to go, albeit roughed up. And we're chasing him, but we're too late to stop Zeromus' awakening. Rest of the scene could play out fine.

Alternatively, just let us kill him- but it not be Golbez at all but one of his Voidsent just looking like Golbez. A bait and switch while Real Golbez is finalizing his summoning/awaking ritual.

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Another alternative could have been to have use just fight the transformed Azdaja without Golbez. He could of sic'd her on us, knowing we'd weaken her enough for him to accomplish his plan. (⑅ ‘﹃’ )
I really hope they aren't going to try and wrap this story up before 7.0, it already feels like it's progressing too quickly for me. (●´ω｀●)ゞ

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I really hope they aren't going to try and wrap this story up before 7.0, it already feels like it's progressing too quickly for me. (●´ω｀●)ゞ

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Please don't give them idea dumb ideas, let this garbage filler end already. 6.X story is for me on the same level as ARR story.

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Originally Posted by Hayden

Anyone else kind of OVER Square Enix lazy writing? Namely, battles that mean nothing.

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https://i.ibb.co/HHMmJ70/kaiten.pnghttps://i.ibb.co/Q67vX04/X.gif https://i.ibb.co/HHMmJ70/kaiten.png

Every battle is now meaningless without my " Hissatsu: Kaiten " mhm.

So if it was meaningless before? it's now extra meaningless... Meaningless uptime I tell you!! big nods!

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Just lock the door or I'll come in with pizza.

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Pizza isn't much of a threat; you know, unless you are talking about one of those mayonnaise and peas abominations. Now, there's a threat.

After watching the drama unfold, I am assuming this is the part in the story where we all find out that they're both the same person.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

https://i.ibb.co/HHMmJ70/kaiten.pnghttps://i.ibb.co/Q67vX04/X.gif https://i.ibb.co/HHMmJ70/kaiten.png

Every battle is now meaningless without my " Hissatsu: Kaiten " mhm.

So if it was meaningless before? it's now extra meaningless... Meaningless uptime I tell you!! big nods!

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Your crusade has touched a chord in my heart. To show my solidarity, I'm going to put aside my staff, books, and robes for a bit, and take up the katana.

Hissatsu: Kaiten! Hissatsu: Kaiten! Hissatsu: Kaiten!

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Pizza isn't much of a threat; you know, unless you are talking about one of those mayonnaise and peas abominations. Now, there's a threat.

After watching the drama unfold, I am assuming this is the part in the story where we all find out that they're both the same person.

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I'm tempted to say "that's right" just to see how the other account reacts.

Deny nothing. Or deny everything. Doesn't matter, people will always believe what they really want to believe. Or what others trick them into believing.

joins you in sipping tea

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Pizza isn't much of a threat; you know, unless you are talking about one of those mayonnaise and peas abominations. Now, there's a threat.

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The what whats? I don't think that deserves to be called a pizza any more.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The what whats? I don't think that deserves to be called a pizza any more.

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Japan has very weird sense when it comes to pizza. Well, to my American brain…anyway.

Unless you really really like lots of mayonnaise with lukewarm corn.

http://www.mikesblender.com/pizza%20nightmare.jpg

On topic: I do wonder what the point of the Golbez situation actually is. If this is his one battle, and he lives, will he be redeemed in the end? Or will it be a solo duty thing? Or is Zeromus gonna eat him?

And (spoilers), what effect is this going to have on the first? If I understood Y’shtola correctly..she’s..going to…weaponize.. the empty?

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Japan has very weird sense when it comes to pizza. Well, to my American brain…anyway.

Unless you really really like lots of mayonnaise with lukewarm corn.

http://www.mikesblender.com/pizza%20nightmare.jpg

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Pineapple lovers and pineapple haters must unite to destroy this unholy abomination.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Pineapple lovers and pineapple haters must unite to destroy this unholy abomination.

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There can be no peace with the heathens of the pineapple nation. Never peace. But that... thing? Thats proof that god is dead - no just god would allow such an unholy creation to be.

Corn is actually good on pizza though.

Anti-corn pizza propaganda is made by pineapple pizza fans.