Ifrit Extreme....What's Different?

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06-22-2012, 04:59 AM
Sabaku_Usagi

Quote:

Originally Posted by fusional

except he can't have any more HP

though he could have higher effective HP if they increase his regen, or give him some sort of healing mechanic

What would stop him from having more HP? I'm just not familiar enough to know~
06-22-2012, 05:35 AM
Tango

pretty sure the max HP was determined in the dat's based on the size of the programming structure used to hold HP. I forgot how this was determined but I read about the idea a while ago and it seemed to make sense.
06-22-2012, 05:39 AM
Molly_Millions

In Ifrit EXTREME mode, Ifrit enters the bowl of embers to fight you.
06-22-2012, 07:03 AM
Antipika

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango

pretty sure the max HP was determined in the dat's based on the size of the programming structure used to hold HP. I forgot how this was determined but I read about the idea a while ago and it seemed to make sense.

And how would that prevent him to have more HP? All you need is a different "monster ID", with different attributes. You can have the same monster 50 times, with the same name and appearance, but different attributes, including max HP...
06-22-2012, 07:31 AM
Zdenka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antipika

And how would that prevent him to have more HP? All you need is a different "monster ID", with different attributes. You can have the same monster 50 times, with the same name and appearance, but different attributes, including max HP...

That's wrong, the maximum HP is based on the amount of space they allot to that stat.

For HP it would be 32767 which is 2^15 or displayed in binary as 111 1111 1111 1111 (i believe that's correct, long time since i typed anything out in binary).

They could increase it to 2^16 and allow the maximum mob HP to go to 65535 but they would need to update every mob in the game. That extra space requires more memory and is not ideal but its the only solution.

Also its shown through Guardians of the Grove that def/mdef values are high enough to make us do 0 damage. Altering those is a much better option than either increasing memory usage or regen.

Regen is a very unbalanced stat, as it is difficult to balance. You may have a perfect balance ratio but better players than the "target balance" will have a tremendously easier time with the fight, and players that are slightly worse will have a very difficult time. (due the changing effective HP, a 5m fight it has 40000HP but a 10m fight it has 70000HP for instance penalizing poorer players to great magnitude)
06-22-2012, 07:32 AM
Griss

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

What is this I don't even

EXTREEEEEAMM!!!!!
06-22-2012, 08:13 AM
Antipika

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zdenka

That's wrong, the maximum HP is based on the amount of space they allot to that stat.

For HP it would be 32767 which is 2^15 or displayed in binary as 111 1111 1111 1111 (i believe that's correct, long time since i typed anything out in binary).

They could increase it to 2^16 and allow the maximum mob HP to go to 65535 but they would need to update every mob in the game. That extra space requires more memory and is not ideal but its the only solution.

Also its shown through Guardians of the Grove that def/mdef values are high enough to make us do 0 damage. Altering those is a much better option than either increasing memory usage or regen.

Regen is a very unbalanced stat, as it is difficult to balance. You may have a perfect balance ratio but better players than the "target balance" will have a tremendously easier time with the fight, and players that are slightly worse will have a very difficult time. (due the changing effective HP, a 5m fight it has 40000HP but a 10m fight it has 70000HP for instance penalizing poorer players to great magnitude)

We're not in the 90's anymore, do you REALLY think that the HP variable is stored on 15 bits just to save a little bit of memory?

This isn't Star Ocean 3.

Little story about SO3 JP, one of the mightiest boss on the game, Etheral Queen (when fought in 4D mode) had a very high amount of HP and MP. You can either defeat monsters by depleting their MP or HP in SO3.

By equipping the item "Gutsy Bunny" which make enemy encountered more powerful, the amount of MP of Etheral Queen would be above a certain threshold, creating an overflow issue. In the end, the boosted MP value would be dramatically lower than the base MP value without using the Gutsy Bunny.

All you had to do is deal MP damage to defeat Etheral Queen quickly. This overflow bug was then fixed on the non-JP version of the game. But that was a long time ago, and we are talking BIG numbers, so memory limitations made sense on PS2.
06-22-2012, 08:21 AM
Elexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antipika

We're not in the 90's anymore, do you REALLY think that the HP variable is stored on 15 bits just to save a little bit of memory?

This isn't Star Ocean 3.

Little story about SO3 JP, one of the mightiest boss on the game, Etheral Queen (when fought in 4D mode) had a very high amount of HP and MP. You can either defeat monsters by depleting their MP or HP in SO3.

By equipping the item "Gutsy Bunny" which make enemy encountered more powerful, the amount of MP of Etheral Queen would be above a certain threshold, creating an overflow issue. In the end, the boosted MP value would be dramatically lower than the base MP value without using the Gutsy Bunny.

All you had to do is deal MP damage to defeat Etheral Queen quickly. This overflow bug was then fixed on the non-JP version of the game. But that was a long time ago, and we are talking BIG numbers, so memory limitations made sense on PS2.

Yeah I was just thinking that...we're not in 8-16-bit days..I'm damn sure mobs in FFXI had well over 30k HP, why would XIV be such a downgrade when a 2001 game could do more? I know XIV was inferior to XI in certain deisgn aspects..but I'm damn sure even FFXIII had mobs with well over 1 million HP and they use the same exact engine.
06-22-2012, 08:25 AM
rina_inverse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

In Ifrit EXTREME mode, Ifrit enters the bowl of embers to fight you.

This, so this
06-22-2012, 08:29 AM
Antipika

Yazmat on XII had 50 millions... While it make sense to store certain values on 16bits only (or even 8bits), for something like HP, it doesn't make sense, especially in a MMO. When you code your game, you think about the future. When Tanaka made version 1.0, even if he didn't know (yet) that the game would be fully revamped etc., he perfectly knew that gear of players improve over the years and that sooner or later, mighty foes with a very high amount of MP will be implemented.

He progammed and produced games in the 90's, on systems where memory was truly an issue. Same for FF XI. 15bits for HP lol... He made mistakes but he isn't that stupid.
06-22-2012, 09:16 AM
Alhanelem

whats with all the guessing on how it's different? Hasn't anyone done it by now?
06-22-2012, 09:35 AM
Elexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

whats with all the guessing on how it's different? Hasn't anyone done it by now?

Well considering how many complain about double melded weapons and seal drop rates, I doubt it.
06-22-2012, 09:51 AM
Jynx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

whats with all the guessing on how it's different? Hasn't anyone done it by now?

From what I understand only 1-2 groups on the forums are actually doing the quest instead of complaining about it. Farthest I've heard is people getting all the AV items. They would still need to do Cutters and a bunch of other stuff first.
06-22-2012, 10:05 AM
Alhanelem

? Are you saying you have to finish the relic weapon quest to do the ifrit extreme?
06-22-2012, 10:07 AM
Elexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

? Are you saying you have to finish the relic weapon quest to do the ifrit extreme?

You need 'A Relic Reborn', which requires a fair bit of progress into it.
06-22-2012, 10:09 AM
Mudd

Ifrit is now younger, looks like prince, fights to dubstep, smokes, and is edgy.
06-22-2012, 10:15 AM
C56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudd

fights to dubstep

Pfffft, everyone whose done the fight knows he only fights to smooth jazz >.>

Also, i believe this is what it means to be extreme ifrit:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j4...Untitled-1.png

I tink i got everything...
06-22-2012, 12:04 PM
AmyNeudaiz

Saw a Relic weapon on my server early this morning. Extreme Ifrit can't be that extreme that someone got it within a few hours.
06-22-2012, 12:43 PM
Alhanelem

when i saw the patch notes, i figured it was just "harder ifrit, better drop rates" or some shiat like that. Didn't know it had anything to do with relic weapons. SO is that all it's for or does it have other rewards?
06-22-2012, 12:57 PM
Kerwin

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssppiikkeeyy

he's blindfolded and you have to play marko polo with him.

That's a bad idea :P
06-22-2012, 01:15 PM
JackDaniels

Quote:

Originally Posted by C56

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j4...Untitled-1.png

http://suckerpunchcinema.com/main/wp.../09/aph_39.jpg
06-22-2012, 01:57 PM
Elexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

when i saw the patch notes, i figured it was just "harder ifrit, better drop rates" or some shiat like that. Didn't know it had anything to do with relic weapons. SO is that all it's for or does it have other rewards?

Patch notes kinda tell you it's related to the Relic acquisition xD.
06-22-2012, 04:25 PM
Veltaine

my iq has dropped a little in this entire thread, and my attention span..

thanks for the fun read. lol
06-22-2012, 06:23 PM
Sainya

Quote:

Originally Posted by C56

Pfffft, everyone whose done the fight knows he only fights to smooth jazz >.>

Also, i believe this is what it means to be extreme ifrit:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j4...Untitled-1.png

I tink i got everything...

Seriously, teach me how to quote this post in my signature. I want to weep at its greatness every day, I have not laughed this hard in a long, long time.
06-22-2012, 09:42 PM
Klefth

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Saw a Relic weapon on my server early this morning. Extreme Ifrit can't be that extreme that someone got it within a few hours.

Pics or it didn't happen.
06-22-2012, 10:09 PM
Doho

seriously, why would you NOT take a screenshot of the first relic weapon you saw, if you were going to post saying that you saw one.. I don't even..
06-22-2012, 10:18 PM
Chardrizard

I saw a relic under my gf's skirts. I would post pics but... Also it might be the unfinished version
06-22-2012, 10:40 PM
Meatdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Saw a Relic weapon on my server early this morning. Extreme Ifrit can't be that extreme that someone got it within a few hours.

If anything you probably just saw the step where the weapon has to be spirit bound..
06-22-2012, 11:57 PM
madolyn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chardrizard

I saw a relic under my gf's skirts. I would post pics but... Also it might be the unfinished version

yeah...you might want to get the restorative items then if its all relic-y.
06-23-2012, 12:12 AM
Cascade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

If anything you probably just saw the step where the weapon has to be spirit bound..

i know there is atleast one pld weapon but its the unfinished one on this server
06-23-2012, 03:57 AM
AmyNeudaiz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

If anything you probably just saw the step where the weapon has to be spirit bound..

Now that you mention it, it was a Pld that didn't have the shield on so maybe. I only caught a glimse before they zoned and I couldn't find them after that.

As for "pics or it didn't happen" I really didn't think "Oh man, I need to take a screenshot so I can prove it to some people on a forum" so no pic. Either way, disappointed that someone would even have the unfinished version already.
06-23-2012, 04:16 AM
Cascade

not really that hard to get if you've been putting the time and work into it since release..... the JPs are on the ball with this right now
06-23-2012, 07:15 AM
Kiroh

Extreme Ifrit is the Eorzean equivalent of the new FFXI NMs.

http://static.ffxiah.com/images/ss/f...28cvP4tvKf.jpg
06-24-2012, 12:37 AM
Leo_Hart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8mt3...ature=youtu.be

here we go :)
06-24-2012, 12:44 AM
Elexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo_Hart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8mt3...ature=youtu.be

here we go :)

They're doing it wrong, I see too many non THM/BLMs in this fight, does not compute with typical content strategies to trivialize every content! -gets into fetal position and cries-

Anyway, it looks like he has a fair bit more HP (which someone said was impossible...heh) and his patterns are different, so definitely more of a "hyper" version kind of like the Dark Aeons.
06-24-2012, 12:44 AM
Chardrizard

Jesus, what the fuck is that random powder bomb?
06-24-2012, 12:47 AM
Leo_Hart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Jesus, what the fuck is that random powder bomb?

deal 200-300 dmg, mayb also inflict DoT
06-24-2012, 02:07 AM
Kiara

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Jesus, what the fuck is that random powder bomb?

Agreed. Looks like a way to "equalize" all the ranged types standing in "safe spots" during the old Ifrit battles. It certainly made everyone scramble like chickens for a while. :)
06-24-2012, 02:29 AM
Xquiel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiara

Agreed. Looks like a way to "equalize" all the ranged types standing in "safe spots" during the old Ifrit battles. It certainly made everyone scramble like chickens for a while. :)

no more BLM! =o
gogo MNK/DRG pawa~
06-24-2012, 02:42 AM
Zezlar

People have been working on this since 1.22. Not everyone chose to wait until they finally confirmed the seals were for the Relics. Even though if one talked to Rowena beforehand they would have knew that.

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