why the devs take the lazy way out on low lvl content scaling?

It's not worth it as a producer, or developer to even consider the option because of a few people wanting to play try-hard in obsolete content that isn't even balanced around that. The dungeon and quest overhauls of ARR was worth it because analytically that was a way to sell the game beyond the free trial and add new subs versus people whom just quit and never make it to level 90.

They already maintain so many skills across jobs plus separate PvP skills and you're going to consistently add more jobs every few years for the next decade. More to maintain and balance. Some people think in the now and not the future.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

and only give them potency/mitigation nerfs when level scaling to bring them in line with lower level content.

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Yep. It's just that simple. Just nerf it bro there's no inherent imbalance unless you account for every possible point of progression/skill unlock and how the total potency in a combo syncs with the potency of a full L90 combo or anything.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

Like, let's say you have a combo at L90 that does 1000 potency. Say 100 first skill -> 200 second > 250 third -> 350 fourth. The new players don't have that same combo, they only have the first two skills (so they can combo up to 300 potency). Even doing two cycles of this, for the same number of GCDs (four, two times two), they'd be doing only 600 potency for every time the L90 player is doing 1000. And mind you, this is ignoring traits/transforming skills that become stronger versions over the course of leveling.

So what do you do? Make the L90's abilities about half(ish) as potent? 50+100+200+250 = 600? See, can't even just cut everything in half, instead need to manually tweak every skill to match the highest-potency combo the at-content-level players would have. What if the newbies have the third combo skill there? Now you need to account for them doing 650 damage every three GCDs, except you'd have to balance it out with algebra and shit cuz the "GCDs performed" line only matches at 12 (they've done 4 full combos with 3 skills, you've done 3 with 4 skills). You wanna do the math there? Cuz I don't feel like doing so. Now balance out a job with 5 or 6 skills in their full rotation, or alternate branches where the "middle" skills are different (speaking honestly, yes, I can only talk about DRG from experience - but there is indeed a 12345 but there's also a 1ab54. Also 1 becomes a higher-potency skill after doing the last hit in the combo. Also after doing two 1s (modified) you get another OGCD attack that literally doesn't exist for the lower level player - factor that into your math).

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You can't just say "nerf potency" when one or the other of scaled-down and content-level players will inherently be at a disadvantage, unless and until you account for EVERY permutation and have a different nerf at every level.

Host/lower level has 3 skills unlocked? Have to find the lowest common multiple (whatever the mathematical term is) is. Say the class has 7 skills in a combo at cap: In which case, you need to make the potency of 7*3 full rotations equal to 3*7 rotations. What, now you have skills that do 132.73 potency

Oh and btw that only applies to Level 43 content. Host will get another skill at Level 45. New set of math needed. Now you have to intersect 4 and 7, so... Shit what's the math on that? Balance it for parity after 28 GCDs? Lmao

And this still avoids the question of OGCDs. You can not nerf these enough to compensate for content-level players who don't have them to begin with. It can be a frickin 10 pot attack, that's still 10 pot the lower level player doesn't have.

Edit: also, I'm not even accounting for the fact that this is assuming the downsynced player IS at level cap. What if you have a Level 70 downsyncing, and let's say they have 5 skills in their rotation vice 7?

The amount of granularity necessary is not sustainable.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

Yep. It's just that simple. Just nerf it bro there's no inherent imbalance unless you account for every possible point of progression/skill unlock and how the total potency in a combo syncs with the potency of a full L90 combo or anything.



You can't just say "nerf potency" when one or the other of scaled-down and content-level players will inherently be at a disadvantage, unless and until you account for EVERY permutation and have a different nerf at every level.

Host/lower level has 3 skills unlocked? Have to find the lowest common multiple (whatever the mathematical term is) is. Say the class has 7 skills in a combo at cap: In which case, you need to make the potency of 7*3 full rotations equal to 3*7 rotations. What, now you have skills that do 132.73 potency

Oh and btw that only applies to Level 43 content. Host will get another skill at Level 45. New set of math needed. Now you have to intersect 4 and 7, so... Shit what's the math on that? Balance it for parity after 28 GCDs? Lmao

And this still avoids the question of OGCDs. You can not nerf these enough to compensate for content-level players who don't have them to begin with. It can be a frickin 10 pot attack, that's still 10 pot the lower level player doesn't have.

Edit: also, I'm not even accounting for the fact that this is assuming the downsynced player IS at level cap. What if you have a Level 70 downsyncing, and let's say they have 5 skills in their rotation vice 7?

The amount of granularity necessary is not sustainable.

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Because lv20 dungeon mobs arent already melting in 3 seconds from archer aoe...oh wait they do. Anyone who argues against having your whole toolkit when synched down for the sake of "balance" is in some mad denial. Anything below level cap is a unbalanced mess already.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

If by "meaningful" you mean all the rehashed skills that they've been returning to jobs over the years that had gotten cut.
My WHM hasn't gotten any meaningful character progression since HW as everything else, barring 3 skills, is a rehashed version of something that I either already have or lost in some way in the past with minute differences.
Temperance = Divine Seal
Divine Benison = Stoneskin
Aqua Veil = Protect
Afflatus Solace = Cure 2
Afflatus Rapture = Medica
Afflatus Misery = Aero 3

That leaves only Thin Air, PI and Lilybell as the only new skills that weren't already accounted for since HW and Thin Air was lowered down to 58 so it's already available in HW. One could even argue that Lilybell exists to serve as a replacement for scenarios that were previously handled by pre-nerfed Thin Air+Cure 3 spam but being locked away at level 90 means it can't even be used in half of those scenarios in the 1st place so it's even less useful in that regard UNLESS a low level version of it was available.

This might only be true for WHM but strictly speaking, there are a number of skills that could easily be brought down to a lower level without much issue in regards to balance since they were previously balanced with other skills and abilities being available at the time.



This is literally MNK past level 60

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You missed the part where I said, "its already triviliazed anyway"

Maybe they could adjust lower level player skills potencies to be in sync with higher level players but Im not a game designer to understand how to properly balance that out anyway

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

Because lv20 dungeon mobs arent already melting in 3 seconds from archer aoe...oh wait they do. Anyone who argues against having your whole toolkit when synched down for the sake of "balance" is in some mad denial. Anything below level cap is a unbalanced mess already.

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So if these beginning-of-ARR level dungeons are so easy, why do you care that you don't have your full rotation? Mobs wipe after one or two hits anyways? Sounds to me like you're not losing anything in that case lol.

Anyways, you're intentionally going to the most extreme example of things that are trivialized by stat crush and ilevel shenanigans to try to gain a point. Now do ShB+ dungeons. Any given class has lost at least a few skills in their rotations going from 90 to 70-something, therefore forcing the balance I speak of to be needed. And mobs don't "melt in 3 seconds" outside of running it unsynced at 90. And even then, it's not nearly as easy as that after that point.

Source: I literally stopped running unsynced solos for MSQ once I hit ShB specifically because I couldn't melt down mobs with my L90 DRG anymore lmao. Without level cap, even just going down to ShB dungeons: no more Stardiver, Heaven's thrust and Chaotic spring are downgraded to their base versions, I lose the OGCD of Wyrmwind Thrust after every two full rotations, etc. Oh and I think my second charge of Spineshatter? And also only 2 vs 3 Nastronds? Edit: oh, and the AoE combo has a transforming higher-potency skill 1 after level 82, forgot that.

So that's 5 or 6 skills that I at level cap, a 70s player wouldn't have, two-three of which are OGCDs in some capacity. And yes, even with the inherent strength advantage from levelcapped gear synced down, ain't nothing "melting in 3 seconds".

Probably-necessary edit: no, I do not have a full set of level 90 gear, I think my average ilvl was... 538? That sounds familiar for some reason.

But I'm guessing (hoping) you aren't implying that literally everyone ITT asking for skills retention during downsync is in pentamelded BiS gear or something...

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

So if these beginning-of-ARR level dungeons are so easy, why do you care that you don't have your full rotation?

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Because its B O R I N G and you are constantly thrown into this low level stuff with roulettes.

I haven't seen anything below Shadowbringers in leveling roulette in months. Anecdotal, I know, but.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

Because its B O R I N G and you are constantly thrown into this low level stuff with roulettes.

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Elaborate on this.

Assuming your claim is true, is it more satisfying to

- press 1, 2
- oh, mob's dead...
- reach next mob
- I still have the next skill in the combo chambered!
- press 3, 4

Vs

- press 1, 2
- oh, mob's dead...
- reach next mob
- i don't have the rest of the combo!
- press 1, 2

Like, for me, any actual satisfaction in rotations is keeping them going efficiently, weaving in GCDs, etc. But... You're claiming mobs melt right away anyway? so what are you losing?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I haven't seen anything below Shadowbringers in leveling roulette in months. Anecdotal, I know, but.

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Did you mean above? Cuz otherwise... That's my point? A ShB player has far more parity with levelcapped players, but then again, you lose a relatively small amount of actual skills (vs just losing direct upgrades). So if the argument is "in turns into a mindless 1, 2, 1, 2 spam fest", sure, but how much does only having 1-2-3-4-5-6 instead of 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 actually matter?

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

Did you mean above? Cuz otherwise... That's my point? A ShB player has far more parity with levelcapped players, but then again, you lose a relatively small amount of actual skills (vs just losing direct upgrades). So if the argument is "in turns into a mindless 1, 2, 1, 2 spam fest", sure, but how much does only having 1-2-3-4-5-6 instead of 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 actually matter?

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No, I meant below. I got Holminster the other day and Dohn Mheg last week. Been getting Atiascope and Ktisis Hyperboria a lot lately.

Like I said, anecdotal. Just thought it was kinda funny.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You missed the part where I said, "its already triviliazed anyway"

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Old Content being trivialized is due to a plethora of factors though.
Potency Inflation, poor ilvl synch and the content itself being nerfed to the ground that even at MINE, it's nowhere near as challenging as it once was, all play a factor in how trivial older content is. Then we have to also consider that SE has already added skills at lower levels that add to content being trivialized; Total Eclipse and Prominence were never skills prior to ShB but are now skills PLD has access to at level 15/40 respectively whereas before, they only had Flash, a non-damaging AoE Aggro Generator as their primary means of maintaining aggro. Then you have jobs that were clearly designed with little regard to low level play. Standard Step being available at level 15 means any sprout going thru Sastasha that happens to get a high level DNC as a DPS in their group is pretty much screwed since a 720 potency AoE nuke just invalidates anything any other class can do at that level. SE had a chance to improve the older content with the Stat Squish but chose not to. Apart from making the MSQ related stuff compatible with Duty Support, it's unlikely that any old content will be anything more than a visual novel set piece ever again.

You could put a cap on damage output while allowing me to have a fun rotation, though.

If we change the discussion flavor slightly to "should lower levels get their full rotations faster, and then after that it's all just upgrades/replacements", I honestly can't say whether I'd be 'for' that.

On one hand, it would easily solve the issue this thread is even about - your rotation is identical, just the GFX look a bit less pretty and your icons are different. Getting full rotations faster also has a practical effect, in that very early on you learn how it all works.

My problem though, is... Let's say level 50 that seems to be the general metric for stuff being "real content" in any appreciable sense (and as elaborated above by Strider, it keeps creeping further away with every expac). Are you supposed to just be happy doing the same thing throughout all of HW, SB, ShB, and EW content? Or if you say rather it's 60, ditto for SB-EW? And so on.

It's like the other extreme of "jobs don't get good until X", you also can't say "jobs peak at Y (and after that point hope you enjoy grinding the next 40 levels the exact same way lol lmao". Other than just pointlessly saying "dude, SE should like...add more skills throughout the 50-80 range? I guess? Idk lol", I don't really see a solution that makes everyone happy. Sure endgame players will have their full kit, but new players will get burned out because they have NOTHING to look forward to (oh, they'd sprinkle in an extra OGCD here and there I imagine, hope you like your gameplay evolution!) And then the current system, of course, you gain a bigger and bigger rotation with every 4-6 (ish? 6-10? Something like that) levels, but that means going back to that content you lose those skills obviously as the system is built right now.

What if when you were synced to content from a particular expansion, you played with the kit you would have had when that expansion was current? 1-50, you get the ARR version of your job. 51-60 you get the HW version of your job. Etc.

I can already see all sorts of problems with this (cross-class skills, juggling hotbars, having to remember five different versions of the job), but it would guarentee having a complete-ish kit in content designed with that kit in mind.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

You could put a cap on damage output while allowing me to have a fun rotation, though.

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Do I need to refer to the math post again?

You can not account for combo-transformed skills, OGCDs, buffs, and everything else the higher level toolkit has without individually nerfing every higher level vs every lower level. You'd have a full ass needless database of "82 downsynced to level 47 dungeon", "90 downsynced to 33", "53 downsynced to 17". And by the way, how do you resolve a level 90 player and a level 76 player both joining a Level 50's DF? Which is to say, assuming same class, now you have to balance 90 vs 76, and then vs 50.

The only other way is a flat stat squish/reduction, but I mean ffs, you can SEE how poorly the rounding does with that. A level 90 person with Savage gear WILL outdps a level 20 person with the duty-appropriate gear, even if BOTH of them literally did nothing but hit 1 over and over (using the same cookie cutter base skill with the same potency). If THAT already fails to meaningfully "cap" the higher level player's damage output, do you really expect any solution applied to endgame gear AND skill rotations would work?

Literally everything would die in a single rotation by that point up through like SB or ShB. Wow, so much fun for the trial and/or new players, fuck em, right? So long as you can press 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 instead of having to only press 1-2-3, nobody else's enjoyment matters but yours.

This stuff's why every pvp game that balances off of pro player input has gone to shit. You think, and the devs think "oh, these people know what the game is like at the highest level, surely their thoughts will lead to the perfect game!", but it leads to 95% of the playerbase being completely turned off of it.

Max-level shit is only fun if you're max level. Everyone else deserves to have fun, too. You were level 16 doing Sastasha for the first time ever once, too. Edited edit: and see my post a few above, I'm aware the low level skill rotations are themselves boring. But part of the appeal is GETTING those skills as you level up. Before y'all start going "lol it's not fun to press 1-2-1-2 as a level 16 player", agreed, but they aren't level 16 forever.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

Literally everything would die in a single rotation by that point up through like SB or ShB. Wow, so much fun for the trial and/or new players, fuck em, right? So long as you can press 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 instead of having to only press 1-2-3, nobody else's enjoyment matters but yours.

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And the other option is to inflate the HP so much that you do yout 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 combo and do 7 damage from doing the entire combo, and the monster has 21 hp.

And then that would feel bad for you, because you'd do almost no damage with all those flashy hits, AND the monster takes extra hits and everything goes slower.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

My problem though, is... Let's say level 50 that seems to be the general metric for stuff being "real content" in any appreciable sense (and as elaborated above by Strider, it keeps creeping further away with every expac). Are you supposed to just be happy doing the same thing throughout all of HW, SB, ShB, and EW content? Or if you say rather it's 60, ditto for SB-EW? And so on.

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I think it depends on how they go forward with it. Some classes change how they function once they unlock specific traits, WAR being one of the most noticeable examples since Inner Release is a really substantial upgrade for the job. While some jobs are more impacted by Trait upgrades than others, it could still be an avenue to consider in addressing the issue of classes becoming stale

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

why as we go lower that current level content we lose skills. as of lvl 90 any thing under lvl 60 is close to not playable and under 50 even more so. why not let you have the skill but adjust them for the content ? then there be some lvl of fun in this old content that out side of being forced in to by roulettes no one really do.

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Devs do it for the same reason that lazy players demand to overpower low level content with their high level job toolkits.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

But then that would just kill meaningful character progression with leveling. I mean I know this game already heavily triviliazes character progression to be so easy but do we really need to butcher the rpg aspects even further?

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but there no meaningful character progression after you hit lvl 50.the last 3 expansions did not really add new things if you think of it.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I haven't seen anything below Shadowbringers in leveling roulette in months. Anecdotal, I know, but.

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any time i don't bring my party where all at lvl 70-90 i all the time getting some thing under 50. 99% of trials? 50 ones. 50-80 roulette? mostly 50's. normal raids? alex. 24 man raids roulette? tower.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Devs do it for the same reason that lazy players demand to overpower low level content with their high level job toolkits.

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no one asking for nothing to be over powered. we clearly asking for it to be adjusted to the content. you say things will get killed faster if you do 1 2 3 4 set over 11111111?

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

Words

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Dude, I don't care. lol It's boring as sin. It's not my job to make it work. It's a dumb system, period. You could at least lower the ilvl so it's not as insultingly easy.

At least with levelling roulette, there is a setting in DF that lets you get put into something relative to your level. The other ones are fair game.

I just don't understand these cries of "lower min ilvl" or "make duties sync you down to min ilvl". That sounds horrendously boring.

What's the point of getting better gear if it won't matter? Hell, what's the point of even levelling up if you'll have your full kit doing Satasha as long as you're level 90 when queuing. Just give us all our skills right off the bat! No point in any sort of progression.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

At least with levelling roulette, there is a setting in DF that lets you get put into something relative to your level. The other ones are fair game.

I just don't understand these cries of "lower min ilvl" or "make duties sync you down to min ilvl". That sounds horrendously boring.

What's the point of getting better gear if it won't matter? Hell, what's the point of even levelling up if you'll have your full kit doing Satasha as long as you're level 90 when queuing. Just give us all our skills right off the bat! No point in any sort of progression.

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All old level cap BiS gear (which is where the all downsync problems lie) can be bought for cheap poetics. What a thrilling progression! Just as thrilling as upgrading from Gladiator to Paladin, even though your first ability that resembles anything paladin-like is at 56. And what's better, gear than don't matter, or killing Endsinger, the final boss of this whole 5 expansion arc, before you even get all the dialoque? Feels so good that my 630 gear is melting this boss which is meant for like 540 and ruins the new player's experience.

As for that leveling roulette option - that is only for full 4-man premade party. Which at the same time, kills the point of roulettes.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

At least with levelling roulette, there is a setting in DF that lets you get put into something relative to your level. The other ones are fair game.

I just don't understand these cries of "lower min ilvl" or "make duties sync you down to min ilvl". That sounds horrendously boring.

What's the point of getting better gear if it won't matter? Hell, what's the point of even levelling up if you'll have your full kit doing Satasha as long as you're level 90 when queuing. Just give us all our skills right off the bat! No point in any sort of progression.

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What's the point of getting better gear if it won't matter? same as now in any thing that is not from the past 2 patches? or what the point leveling up if you cant use the skills on 90% of the game as it content under the current lvl cap

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

What's the point of getting better gear if it won't matter? same as now in any thing that is not from the past 2 patches? or what the point leveling up if you cant use the skills on 90% of the game as it content under the current lvl cap

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Obviously it does do something otherwise people wouldn't be crying for min ilvl sync.

I may not agree with everything the devs do. I may not like all the choices. But when you hate literally the core part of the game, maybe it's not for you. That's okay. Don't play something that makes you miserable and that you find so incredibly boring, while all these other games do what you want.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

no one asking for nothing to be over powered. we clearly asking for it to be adjusted to the content. you say things will get killed faster if you do 1 2 3 4 set over 11111111?

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Adjusted how? Potency changes? People have said that it isn't a viable option, both in this topic and in previous ones. Someone mentioned a damage cap, doesn't help when you keep adding in more and more oGCDs that the lower levels do not have.

You could balance the dungeons for a level 90 skill set, however, the dungeon has to be balanced and be able to be cleared by a full party of on level players, so that is out of the question.

You keep implying it is an easy thing to do, however, you are not willing to even put together a simple concept of how it would all work, whilst keeping balance.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Adjusted how? Potency changes? People have said that it isn't a viable option, both in this topic and in previous ones. Someone mentioned a damage cap, doesn't help when you keep adding in more and more oGCDs that the lower levels do not have.

You could balance the dungeons for a level 90 skill set, however, the dungeon has to be balanced and be able to be cleared by a full party of on level players, so that is out of the question.

You keep implying it is an easy thing to do, however, you are not willing to even put together a simple concept of how it would all work, whilst keeping balance.

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You say this as though SE actually takes low level balance into account anymore. They don't. Newer jobs simply by virtue of their potencies being made for the content they were released in already don't account for low level content but since they aren't excluded from being level synched down to that content, any and all low level balance is thrown straight out the window.
GNB at level 50 does more damage and has better survivability than PLD by a mile.
DNC completely invalidates every other DPS at level 50 just for having Standard Step.
WHM is just totally outclassed by all other healers at level 50 due to poor sustain and having the most costly spells out of all healers but fast forward to level 80 and Misery is now a DPS gain because it wasn't balanced properly and just given extra potency to match EW's Glare potency and not ShB's Glare.

You cannot use low level balance as a defense because it doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

DNC completely invalidates every other DPS at level 50 just for having Standard Step.

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MCH is actually better than DNC at 50, though marginally so, simply because Heat Blast and Wildfire are absolutely insane skills at that level, though bellow 35, DNC is indeed a god, and if you get sync'd down to Sastasha, the ground will quake at your wake, and a DNC can easily do more damage than the rest of the party combined... though hopefully it won't matter much and hopefully nobody is logging Sastasha parses.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

MCH is actually better than DNC at 50, though marginally so, simply because Heat Blast and Wildfire are absolutely insane skills at that level, though bellow 35, DNC is indeed a god, and if you get sync'd down to Sastasha, the ground will quake at your wake, and a DNC can easily do more damage than the rest of the party combined... though hopefully it won't matter much and hopefully nobody is logging Sastasha parses.

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That still proves the point though that newer jobs aren't balanced for lower level content either way.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

but there no meaningful character progression after you hit lvl 50.the last 3 expansions did not really add new things if you think of it.

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screams in black mage

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Obviously it does do something otherwise people wouldn't be crying for min ilvl sync.

I may not agree with everything the devs do. I may not like all the choices. But when you hate literally the core part of the game, maybe it's not for you. That's okay. Don't play something that makes you miserable and that you find so incredibly boring, while all these other games do what you want.

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its not the core of the game. my love hate sits at 50/50 more or so. for how long any gear in this game only good to people (most at last) as a glam they want or not. 2-3 expansions now? there 0 rpg elements left in this game by now, only what class you play and even that gets less and less important by the expansion. what difference it make what tank/healer/dps you play in any content?
thing is the more BORING you make something (be it a game or a movie) the more people will start to see all the small problems.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Adjusted how? Potency changes? People have said that it isn't a viable option, both in this topic and in previous ones. Someone mentioned a damage cap, doesn't help when you keep adding in more and more oGCDs that the lower levels do not have.

You could balance the dungeons for a level 90 skill set, however, the dungeon has to be balanced and be able to be cleared by a full party of on level players, so that is out of the question.

You keep implying it is an easy thing to do, however, you are not willing to even put together a simple concept of how it would all work, whilst keeping balance.

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people that never in the hole life touched any thing programing related? you can do it and there lot of games that do , some better that others. you do not balance the dungeon here but the skills them self. you change how much DPS/healing they do. how its such a hard concept to understand? like i don't get you people. on one hand you parse the devs and yoshi as some of the most talented people in existence . on the other hand any small thing that people want you say that this devs have no way to do. it cant be both all the time

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

people that never in the hole life touched any thing programing related? you can do it and there lot of games that do , some better that others. you do not balance the dungeon here but the skills them self. you change how much DPS/healing they do. how its such a hard concept to understand? like i don't get you people. on one hand you parse the devs and yoshi as some of the most talented people in existence . on the other hand any small thing that people want you say that this devs have no way to do. it cant be both all the time

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you do realize that they can't even balance healers right from expac to expac right. how do you expect them to balance skill potency of dps and healer for simply wanting dungeons a bit harder. i mean i still hold just to set everything to min ilvl permanently and make it so the gear won't beat the ilvl at all. thats probably way easier then balancing 16 classes. 20 if you throw in the tanks. do you want them to take that time and cause a drought just for the few to be happy that stuff is a bit tougher?

Make all duties permanently min ilvl and most of you will realize you aren’t as competent as you think you are.

The gear helps hide the shortcomings of the below average player. It’s accessibility. Suck it up

As far as having all your skills, most don’t use half of them anyways. Also, it’s balanced around the content by design. Get over it

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

people that never in the hole life touched any thing programing related? you can do it and there lot of games that do , some better that others. you do not balance the dungeon here but the skills them self. you change how much DPS/healing they do. how its such a hard concept to understand?

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Because that solution is untenable, unscalable and ridiculously dumb from any designer worth their salt due to the sheer massive overhead it creates.

Let's take a random example, Bloodspiller on DRK. Let's pretend arbitrarily, that they figured out to make it balanced with a 30 DRK, it gets adjusted to 200 potency.
BUT WAIT, there is now a patch released that changes how Delirium works by making it 30s instead of 60s, meaning now Bloodspiller is happening far more often. In the current system, literally nothing changes.
In your system, they now have to go and re-calculate the average DPS bloodspiller is contributing to the 90 DRK's rotation clashed against a low level DRK's rotation, then modify its potency again.

BUT WAIT, the new expansion is out and now Bloodspiller triggers an extra hit like continuation! In the current system, literally nothing changes.
In your system, they now have to take the combined potency of these two skills, change the scaling on the potencies for both skills now and re-calculate it for a third time.

BUT WAIT, now there's a patch that completely reworked DRK! Let's go back and re-calculate everything ONCE AGAIN!!!

This topic has been brought up countless times, Yoshi-P has flat out said no, itll never happen. For good reason, because any alternative system you pitch is going to be objectively worse than the current system purely because it'll introduce stupid amounts of overhead that will be annoying to balance anytime the numbers, rotations or stat/potency/etc squishes happen.

They currently have a system that is literally future proof. Literally zero overhead. Literally keeps the balance as tight as possible between players within a job of any level range. Why would any developer with even more than one braincell throw away such a finely tuned system for utter balancing chaos? That so hard to grasp? It has nothing to do with Yoshi-P as a person and everything to do with the current system just doing the job its meant to do perfectly.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." As they say. You can go level by always queueing the most on-level dungeon. You can farm tomes off of hunt trains & level cap dungeons. You don't ever have to touch level syncing if you want.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

you do realize that they can't even balance healers right from expac to expac right. how do you expect them to balance skill potency of dps and healer for simply wanting dungeons a bit harder. i mean i still hold just to set everything to min ilvl permanently and make it so the gear won't beat the ilvl at all. thats probably way easier then balancing 16 classes. 20 if you throw in the tanks. do you want them to take that time and cause a drought just for the few to be happy that stuff is a bit tougher?

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sadly i do and there a sad reason for that. they want all to be the same. how you balance any thing to be the same of there more that 1.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Make all duties permanently min ilvl and most of you will realize you aren’t as competent as you think you are.

The gear helps hide the shortcomings of the below average player. It’s accessibility. Suck it up

As far as having all your skills, most don’t use half of them anyways. Also, it’s balanced around the content by design. Get over it

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but we are. i lots of time go to this trash dungeons as 4 dps,4 tanks or 4 healers. for the lol. really we lose

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

but we are. i lots of time go to this trash dungeons as 4 dps,4 tanks or 4 healers. for the lol. really we lose

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My response to most people, including yourself would get me banned

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

My response to most people, including yourself would get me banned

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just say it in a more "correct" way then .