So does every hate new PLD now?

If they're gonna leave Goring Blade as is going forward, it could use a rework that provides it a rename and give it a new animation where you release a blast of energy with your shield so we can get some more shield play into the Job again. As meh as old Shield Swipe was back in the day it was nice that you were reminded occasionally you were on the sword and board Job. Goring Blade feels weird, like it should be firing a linear shock-wave or something (though I am of the opinion that thinks Blasting Zone on GNB should have some AoE splash damage for it's hitbox) because the animation while still giving off skilled swordplay vibes worked better prior, due to the skill resulting in a DoT and now that it's gone it's idk a bit flat to me but it's also been ages since we got Goring Blade so maybe I just have to get used to it lol.

IF I had to I could learn to live with this version of PLD but the way Goring Blade was adjusted gives this rework rather obvious placeholder vibes until 7.0 swings around so I'm not thrilled with it but it's definitely not terrible either just very idk I'm of two minds on this atm. Grading on a scale considering the turn around time, definitely a good effort at trying to address the problems the community had with it in 6.2...but I also don't Savage raid so for w/e that's worth coming from a player like me XD

I just dont understand it. I'll freely admit PLD was never my strongest, or most enjoyed tank to play.

So what, you're supposed to double dip with Req and FoF now? 8 GCDs in buffs, so your Confi-Blades are 4 GCDs, then you gotta hit Boring so that's 5. How TF is this burst supposed to make sense? In dungeons I cant help but feel like I'm being punished for playing it how it used to flow; I'm not used to nearly going OOM on PLD.

It still has a 63s GCD loop I hear? So what even was the point of adjusting it to better align within the 2min meta? It's still supposed to lose a GCD right? You give up [sword oath thing i forget the name of], so other than it's defensive updates with Veil, Shelltron, and reintroducing and updating Bulwark what was even the point of this "rework" that couldn't have been done without all this pomp and circumstance?

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

I just dont understand it. I'll freely admit PLD was never my strongest, or most enjoyed tank to play.

So what, you're supposed to double dip with Req and FoF now? 8 GCDs in buffs, so your Confi-Blades are 4 GCDs, then you gotta hit Boring so that's 5. How TF is this burst supposed to make sense? In dungeons I cant help but feel like I'm being punished for playing it how it used to flow; I'm not used to nearly going OOM on PLD.

It still has a 63s GCD loop I hear? So what even was the point of adjusting it to better align within the 2min meta? It's still supposed to lose a GCD right? You give up [sword oath thing i forget the name of], so other than it's defensive updates with Veil, Shelltron, and reintroducing and updating Bulwark what was even the point of this "rework" that couldn't have been done without all this pomp and circumstance?

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The 63s loop depends on your speed and commitment to alignment. At 2.50s you can do perfect 60s and aligning it with either dropping Atonements or replacing GCDs with Holy Spirit hardcasts.

I don't like that Goring Blade was changed into yet another Sonic Break (first Shadow Fang, now Goring), but the rest seems... fine?

Divine Might is pretty cool, actually. It improves further on flexibility, even, despite letting PLD take better advantage of its window.

Had it just done that instead and largely left Goring unaffected, I'd be happier, but it isn't too bad.

ENIX Basically just Nerfed Paladins. Making them even Weaker, and less likely to hold aggro. Nevermind actually doing any damage whatsoever. Everywhere I look in patch notes, it is like they are torturing them to death. Thnx Enix, you Paladin Haters.

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Originally Posted by sootfoot

ENIX Basically just Nerfed Paladins. Making them even Weaker, and less likely to hold aggro. Nevermind actually doing any damage whatsoever. Everywhere I look in patch notes, it is like they are torturing them to death. Thnx Enix, you Paladin Haters.

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DMG wise PLD is as strong/ weak as before.
He is on par with WAR and GNB , but we don't know because the Excel sheets do not 100% work yet.

He also has 3 possible rotation that mathematically are similar. The difference in dmg should not be noticeable by the average player.

You have:
Basic rotation, press Burst when ready and continue where you stopped the 1234445 rotation.
60 sec, drop a atonement rotation.
120 sec, hard cast HS rotation

In my eyes PLD is now a easier tank as before and he has the same normal DMG output.

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Originally Posted by sootfoot

ENIX Basically just Nerfed Paladins. Making them even Weaker, and less likely to hold aggro. Nevermind actually doing any damage whatsoever. Everywhere I look in patch notes, it is like they are torturing them to death. Thnx Enix, you Paladin Haters.

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you realise they added a personal mitigation, which yes is a block but it's actually a pretty good 10 second rampart on most things, they made shelltron *slightly* weaker by 5% but keep in mind that shelltron now also properly works aganist dots, Not to mention you sustain way more outside your burst and have some timing over it and now you actually shield yourself from Divine veil? So how are they less likely to hold aggro?

Not to mention the DPS changes while we don't know how they exactly work we know they fit better in burst now.

I do enjoy the new PLD, could it be improved? Yes, but overall, I am not unhappy with it.

One of my biggest annoyances with the old rotation was the fact so much of our rotation was buffed, which just meant it felt really bad when a boss jumped midway through, or if there was any kind of disconnect, your rotation was shifted due to the need to reapply the DoT or just having everything not line up again. With the flexibility of the new rotation, this seems to have fixed those issues.

The changes to the defensives are really good. Holy Sheltron being able to be used on anything is a massive improvement (even if I don't raid Savage regularly). Bulwark being blocking is fine. I know people have complained that it has just bought back the same issues Sheltron has, however, all the equivalent mitigations for the other tanks all also have a downside, so, if you want to buff Bulwark, you have to buff the rest as well.

The Divine Veil change is long overdue, so happy that is finally here.

Only real gripe is Goring Blade just being, well, there. Not only is it uninteresting in ST scenarios, it also feels bad in AoE (I haven't worked out the break point to where it would be a gain over AoE) as using a ST action in an AoE scenario is just feels wrong, regardless of how much damage it does. It just needs some AoE falloff and it would be fine in that regard.

As for button bloat, not going to go over consolidating actions as that is an obvious thing to do, however, Shield Bash has been pretty much redundant since tanks have had access to Low Blow. Having a stun on the GCD that still interrupts combos, that is a recipe for a redundant action. Even if it has a niche use (all I can think of is T5 and Levi EX) it can go. Which brings us round to Cover. The only reason I see people argue for it to stay is either, well, it's part of PLD's identity or, I saved a run once with it. Neither of these things, in my eyes, warrant it to be kept. What could be done with it is having it be the weaker intervention, which is upgraded to current Intervention at 82. So, at 62, you learn Cover, which provides the 10% damage reduction, improved by Rampart/Sentinel, then upgraded at 82 to Intervention.

So, overall, I am going to stick to PLD as my main tank and continue to use it.

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Originally Posted by Alpheus

If they're gonna leave Goring Blade as is going forward, it could use a rework that provides it a rename and give it a new animation where you release a blast of energy with your shield so we can get some more shield play into the Job again.

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Goring blade definitely feels like it's going to be updated in 7.0 like how Hot Shot became Air Anchor or Tornado Kick became phantom rush.
They just had no time/priority to add new animations to PLD or didn't felt that it was necessary.

Overall it feels like the community like the new PLD more than the previous one.
I really like how the burst window is now the Blade combo into a neat GCD priority.

The blade combo is basically spamming the same button 4 times in a row but at least the animations are different and the spam doesn't feel redundant.

Aside from Goring Blade being on the GCD feeling really awkward, I quite like new PLD. Took a bit of time before it really settled with me but it feels good.

It's just not fun any more imo. It's far too similar to gunbreaker and lost a lot of its adaptiveness, not saying it doesn't have any but it's definitely a lot less adaptive than before. It's just a half-baked unfun job that feels clunky to use (especially goring blade). We got another button at a time where we needed less. I was hoping for a somewhat ok change but instead we got whatever this is and it's honestly upsetting.

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Originally Posted by Wyther

Seeing as how you havent played ANY of the tanks, Nor even have a level 90 in anything.

Your statement is false.

A tanks job is NOT to outshine in DPS, but to hold the agro and take the punishment.

Maybe learn what the roles of each class are before you comment on something you have no clue and copy paste "what you hear"

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Imagine thinking the character someone has attached to their forum profile means anything. Lol. Lmao.

I honestly don't know how to feel about it. I have mained PLD since Stormblood and it's current iteration just doesn't feel right. I'm not saying it's bad but then again I haven't played PLD since patch day (spent an hour nailing down the new rotation and then did the MSQ). I suppose whatever they did just drove me away from the job.

I'm not crazy about it. I feel that the rework just made more button bloat and the class now has a very..."samey" vibe to it to the "tank meta"

I feel Req should just be a 5th in the confit chain...rather then having its own button.

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Originally Posted by Videra

Imagine thinking the character someone has attached to their forum profile means anything. Lol. Lmao.

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Imagine having the kind of attitude they have and telling others to learn to play... when they clearly have no idea what they're on about. OF are good entertainment, man.

I feel like it is close to having potential but S-E loves to just cling to old weird stuff that doesn't actually fit in making unnecessary bloat. I've said this elsewhere but...

I feel like royal authority having 3+1 procs and the frequency of it happening is kind of annoying. Actually like the divine might movement freedom part but also think holy spirit looks horrible and stiff as instant cast. Trimming it down to just the divine might procs that maybe gain some stacks with levels and having it actually change holy spirit into a divine blade sort of deal, could recycle atonement and add some little glowy effects so it looks good while running around

Goring blade is just stupid. A skill you have to use on cooldown basically only because it exists and doesn't flow or interact with anything should not exist at max level. I actually think they only made it this way so you have something else to do during fight or flight

fight or flight, requiescat, and confiteor is also quite bad. It's like two pre-buttons just to get to the actual skill. Like literally the polar opposite problem of goring blade... all they do is flow while doing virtually nothing on their own which results in them just feeling like nothing but a stutter.
fight or flight is so short that your really only using it for confiteor and remembering to goring blade with a few gcd of normal rotation hopefully stuck in it
requiescat is literally just pre-confiteor
all that could be rolled into confiteor combo really easily, no need to pre-buff for the only thing worth pre-buffing to begin with, no need to start with a melee skill just to unlock a ranged combo, and rolling all that potency straight into the combo would make you feel like an absolute beast every time you use it

Killing a few buttons would make more room for paladin's extra large utility toolkit as well

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Originally Posted by Wyther

Seeing as how you havent played ANY of the tanks, Nor even have a level 90 in anything.

Your statement is false.

A tanks job is NOT to outshine in DPS, but to hold the agro and take the punishment.

Maybe learn what the roles of each class are before you comment on something you have no clue and copy paste "what you hear"

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How much endgame content do you engage with, again? What's your angle?

I hate it. To me, PLD was near perfect, and what they've replaced it with is a hideous mess. I've mained PLD for near a decade through the hardest content in the game and always thought the progression of it's rotation was ordered and logical. The old rotation was structured in such a way that you always knew what was coming off cooldown based on where you were in the rotation. It fit together so well, but not anymore. Only thing I can do is vote with my wallet, so I've canceled my sub.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

I feel like it is close to having potential but S-E loves to just cling to old weird stuff that doesn't actually fit in making unnecessary bloat. I've said this elsewhere but...

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Level 2: Fight or Flight
Level 68: Trait; Fight or Flight upgrades to Requiescat
Level 80: Trait; Requiescat upgrades to Confiteor

People still have a "burst" button to press while leveling, it just get the additional effects as you go. At level 68, you can now use it mainly with HS for your burst. Then at level 80, Coniteor into HS spam. And finally, at level 90, Confetti into 3x Blades + whatever you can dump into the burst window after that.

Something like that? Cut 2 actions off the hotbar while still having them in the game for leveling PLDs.

EDIT: Note for clarity - When I say "upgrades to", I mean "and keeps the original effect". So Req in this scenario would have the FoF buff baked in, and Conf would have both.

I don't hate my PLD as it was the very first job I leveled to 90. However, I hate what they did with this last update. The nerfed it's over all damage, took away how we could recover MP, and other things. To reinforce this, the PLD was the only tank to be hit with the 'Nerf Sledgehammer of Doom,' the others weren't and they got a small buff. Figure that one out. :confused:

The PLD, IMNSHO, was in a very good place and required no changes in the magnitude that they did. Essentially, they've change the PLD to the point that the DKN & GNB are better than the PLD. Thus making the Warrior the premier tank in the game. Of which, my WAR is my new main level 90 tank.

I'm incline to let my PLD's armor gather dust until such time these developers fix what I believe they broke. Why? Here's the key question for me. The answer? "To make it simpler to play. In other words, they dumbed it down lowering the level complexity required to play it." :rolleyes:

So, welcome the old but new Patch 3.0 V2 PLD :mad:

Square Enix promised to rework Paladin and then despicably nerfed it. This is inexcusable folly.

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Originally Posted by FateRu

Square Enix promised to rework Paladin and then despicably nerfed it. This is inexcusable folly.

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It was as you said...they reworked it. They never said it wouldn't be nerfed.

I like new streamlined Paladin significantly more, than the clunky, sleep inducing, antisynergistic job, it was before

At first I didn' like it (lmao hardcasting Holy Spirit) but then someone came up with the priority based filler rotation, which is a lot of fun to play.

I think it's basically a case of 'missed opportunity', like I don't necessarily hate it, I'll get used to it over time, but compared to what it could have been I think it's kinda just 'eh'. It does what it's meant to.

Bulwark can go to 15s though please and thank

I like the new Paladin, quite a bit ... yeah it has issues like I think Requiescat should be 25y.

The hard cast Holy Spirits did upset me, until I found you can weave that part into down time on the boss fairly easy then it grew on me and now I "kinda" like it though I'm almost certain this is not intended by the devs and will be changed like buffing Atonement or something.

I do feel like a lot of people don't like the new Paladin ... unless its a vocal minority, it has however made me hesitant to main the Paladin if so many people DO in fact want it changed.

Rotation feels clunky, really not a fan when you have played GNB or DRK.

Cover still useless, you can’t tell me they checked it and went «*all good here*»

Still uses crappy ice spells instead of Light. Hate to say it but WoW paladin’s thematically just looks better. Guardian from Fail Wars 2 would be another good example.

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Originally Posted by True-to-Caesar

Rotation feels clunky, really not a fan when you have played GNB or DRK.

Cover still useless, you can’t tell me they checked it and went «*all good here*»

Still uses crappy ice spells instead of Light. Hate to say it but WoW paladin’s thematically just looks better. Guardian from Fail Wars 2 would be another good example.

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Which part of Paladin is using ice spells? Its abilities are all light/holy themed.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

Which part of Paladin is using ice spells? Its abilities are all light/holy themed.

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I think he's referring to Holy Spirit's looking more like it uses ice crystals than holy... whatever makes things look especially holy?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I think he's referring to Holy Spirit's looking more like it uses ice crystals than holy... whatever makes things look especially holy?

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In lots of other media, holy stuff looks more 'golden light', whereas here, it's a whitish-pale blue color, which lends more to the idea of it representing 'sterile'. Lots of stuff portrays 'the Light' with a capital L as being a benevolent, caring and nurturing force, often as the center of religions (WOW a good example). Here, 'Light' isn't caring, or benevolent, it's cold, does not discriminate, and does not 'feel'. It's just another 'destructive force' like a wildfire or tsunami. And it is scary when it's at it's full strength.

Imagine a practitioner of magic that says 'I have mastered the element of fire! I can sear the flesh from your bones!', and then another that says 'I have mastered the aspect of passivity, of stasis. I can force your body's natural processes to grind to a standstill, your heart to stop beating, your lungs to stop drawing breath, all as you are painfully aware of your mortality in those final moments', which sounds stronger? They're both pretty powerful in their own way, but something about the second one would scare me more I think. I understand fire, I'd associate the pain with 'this is what will kill me', but 'my body stops working how it should'? That's bloody terrifying. And PLD can throw that 'element' at their foes every 7-ish GCDs now. Guess it's a matter of perspective.

If anyone says 'Holy Spirit needs better animation' though, yeh agreed, snowflake looking animation looks kinda meh

Most of PLD's animations are pretty weak. Everyone makes fun of the dumb princess spin, but Rage of Halone doesn't look *that* much better. Atonement looks like crap compared to the Fang buttons or Fell Cleave, Holy Spirit looks like absolute ass compared to Holy Circle, etc.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Most of PLD's animations are pretty weak. Everyone makes fun of the dumb princess spin, but Rage of Halone doesn't look *that* much better. Atonement looks like crap compared to the Fang buttons or Fell Cleave, Holy Spirit looks like absolute ass compared to Holy Circle, etc.

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I don't think atonement is meant to look as important as fell cleave, your magic blades are meant to be basically warriors fell cleaves, which the blades combo looks really and feels really powerful to me, I generally like atonements animation, just think it's over used though which in general I'd like to see less atonements in plds rotation.

Holy spirit looks meh, I'd like to see a animation change for that, goring blade looks underwhelming for a one time burst button, royal authority looks bad, I really dislike it's animation, most people would rather have rage of Halone even though it's not like the best animation, I really hope they change it's animation out of any ability but I doubt that

PLD also has some of the best animations with the Blades combo and Holy Shelton looks way cooler then any other Defensive, then again I think intervention looks underwhelming.

I've played around with it and I kinda like it?
On paper I wasn't really very excited about the fact that Goring Blade is reliant on crits like every high potency move in the game, but the feel of job is pretty okay honestly.
I think the fact that you can fuck up and use req on holy spirits and all that jank makes it feel like you're playing the job, rather than the job playing itself.

It feels like a WoW class weirdly enough. Pretty sure it has a priority system now rather than a strict spreadsheet style rotation but I wouldn't know.
I am however, not a PLD main. The last time I played PLD on a "high-ish" level was O9S and O10S, so honestly, old PLD mains should be the ones that we need to hear from.

I do not think the Paladin changes were the worst per-se. Rather it was the basic homogenization of the class to make it more similar to all the other tanks. I think others are a bit cheesed that Paladin gameplay just became more accessible.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

I've played around with it and I kinda like it?
On paper I wasn't really very excited about the fact that Goring Blade is reliant on crits like every high potency move in the game, but the feel of job is pretty okay honestly.
I think the fact that you can fuck up and use req on holy spirits and all that jank makes it feel like you're playing the job, rather than the job playing itself.

It feels like a WoW class weirdly enough. Pretty sure it has a priority system now rather than a strict spreadsheet style rotation but I wouldn't know.
I am however, not a PLD main. The last time I played PLD on a "high-ish" level was O9S and O10S, so honestly, old PLD mains should be the ones that we need to hear from.

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The entire burst is just a bunch of high potency skills, not just goring blade so if you do not crit/dhit in your burst you are losing a ridiculous amount of damage, and it can happen and it is extremely underwhelming. It's even worse because the basic 1-2-3 combo has been weakened to account for the high burst so you have 40s of hitting like a wet noodle and 20s of massive potency.

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

I do not think the Paladin changes were the worst per-se. Rather it was the basic homogenization of the class to make it more similar to all the other tanks. I think others are a bit cheesed that Paladin gameplay just became more accessible.

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I've talked with other people about something similar and I have to disagree with the fact people are a bit cheesed that it became "accessible", because they're not making it accessible, they're over-simplifying. Simplifying jobs, imho, does nothing but make regular content boring to play. Hell I even find that level 88 paladin is "harder" than level 90 paladin because the entire blades combo on one button requires less thought than pressing 3x HS then confiteor and I find it funny because you'd expect to think more about a rotation as you levelled up, not less.

If you mean a paladin rotation by "paladin gameplay" then you must not remember that every button was useable before the patch without the perfect rotation and you've misunderstood why the job was changed to what it is now. Paladin was changed because it didn't fit with the current design for jobs of endwalker with the 60s/120s rotations due to its natural drift, not to appeal to more people. The job was already there and anyone could clear most content within the game without learning how to play a job because they just like its aesthetics, it just takes a longer time. It's only when you get to content that has enrages that not having a coherent rotation becomes an issue and you have to learn a somewhat cohesive pattern of attacks from simply reading tooltips and seeing what does what. Not saying you have to min-max because i certainly dont, just pressing your buttons in a way that is keeping the combos going and keeping the GCD rolling. Not to mention even the extremes are having rather leniant DPS checks recently so it's Savage and Ultimate left being the only ones that seem to require a coherent rotation. So if you cant understand a rotation to as simple as "keep GCD rolling and use things before they run out/as the timer goes away" then the later Savage fights, and definitely Ultimate, are not for you.

Was meh before, now it’s even more clunky and lame.

I'm okay with it, however there some clunk to it like attoment can drop combo and requiescat not being range due being the next magic combo is magic so technically this ogcd should play as magic range. Cover and Shield Bash is still a thing they should remove it.

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Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

I'm okay with it, however there some clunk to it like attoment can drop combo and requiescat not being range due being the next magic combo is magic so technically this ogcd should play as magic range. Cover and Shield Bash is still a thing they should remove it.

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Why not instead of removing Cover/shield bash we look into how we could possibly make them more useful.

Cover is pretty simple you could 1. Remove it from gauge 2. extend the range 3. Add a healing or small defensive utility towards it.
Shield Bash, Make it a stun that doess 200 damage it stuns in aoe, OGCD has two stacks make gap closers (on all tanks) not do DPS.

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Originally Posted by Lamarcy2699

I've talked with other people about something similar and I have to disagree with the fact people are a bit cheesed that it became "accessible", because they're not making it accessible, they're over-simplifying. Simplifying jobs, imho, does nothing but make regular content boring to play. Hell I even find that level 88 paladin is "harder" than level 90 paladin because the entire blades combo on one button requires less thought than pressing 3x HS then confiteor and I find it funny because you'd expect to think more about a rotation as you levelled up, not less.

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If your level 88 Paladin you do not have the entire blades combo; 3 steps of it are earned at level 90...
Weaving paladin prior to the patch could be annoying with having to drop atonements to ensure you kept goring up with the FoF windows and such; when I say "accessible" I mean that the complexity of the steps got stripped away for content where "damage matters" so generally savage raid content where the 2 minute window is the king of the meta. I should clarify as someone who got accidentally saddled with tank maining; Paladin rotations were quirky. They are less so now and require less effort to pull consistent and comparable numbers to ones fellow tanks - thats where the "gunbreaker light" comment often comes in - Gunbreaker is rewarding but its FAST and the faster you are; the better you get doing damage with it. Paladin is just Gunbreaker without needing to be fast...so your damage numbers plateau pretty fast.

I think the issue is that "Good" paladin play just isn't really rewarding; its just lukewarm - but to people who sucked at playing old paladin - new paladin is something they can play "good". The result was the good players being brought down and the low ones being brought up to a very vanilla experience.

Personally I dislike Paladins rework more so because I hate the instant cast "Holy Spirit" animation - it feels awkward and clunky and out of place and not like a "instant" but more like a very fast cast but still far less fast then a swing of my sword - with divine might we are seeing more "Holy Spirit" casts consistantly outside of Requiscat burst so it just makes the entire melee flow feel wrong....and not even sure why we have Goring blade still.

I think people were expecting Paladin to gain a identity from the rework; not be watered down to "Tank with shield" next to "Tank with Axe" and "Tank with Gunblade" and "Tank with Greatsword"